- This topic has 26 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 8 months ago by
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Regarding the recent deleted & edited threads, Mark replies to me:
MrBen
The other thread is now back, as you can see. That’s why I deleted your question. This note answers your second question, which I have now also deleted.
I took the original thread down over lunch as I didn’t have time to deal with Bernard’s last post before going to lunch. His last post contained potential libellous comments about some of his former employers in Spain, whilst praising his new project in Portugal. Bernard was not following forum rules, even if he meant well.
Please note that I have to take libel risk very seriously. As the forum administrator I can be sued for comments made by others, and have been threatened with legal action on various occasions. For more information see: http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html
This is why the forum rules clearly state you cannot name companies in the forum.
I cannot afford to cope with legal action resulting from posts by others, and do not have the time or resources to police a forum in which libel is serious risk. This little issue alone has taken up several hours of my Sunday afternoon.
Kind regards
Mark
Removing threads which offend you & editing /removing postings is censorship pure & simple. If you consider there are issues then close the thread, but leave its contents intact as a record of the conversation/dialogue.
In my opinion, you are meddling with postings on your website which should be here as an impartial source of information for those concerned with matters of Spain. Ultimately that reflects on your credibility as an impartial journalist?
I suspect you will probably edit/ delete this post. That would be a shame. So I’ve taken the small step of pm’ng this post to several members on this forum by way of security. I look forward to your reply.
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Ben aren’t you overreacting over a small issue ?
Mark is right, we have to be careful with potential libel.
SPI is as good as it gets regarding non biassed information on Spanish property. I personally thank him for letting us write freely within reasonable limits, that is not trigger law suits against him.
Check out other websites self-aclaimed as “property experts” and they are still claiming that Spain is increasing by 10% its prices in 2007 and similar in 2008… 🙄
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I second Drakan’s comments.
This forum is the best around for (mostly) impartial advice and info on the hot topic of property in Spain.
Yes, it must be sometimes frustating for those personally involved not to be able to “name and shame” but of course Mark has to protect both himself and, ultimately, this site. He does an excelllent job considering he is a very busy man.
I would just love to be able to disclose information about the construction industry, estate agents etc that I am privy to by dint of my work but I know that I can’t, so I don’t.
The PM facility exists for the exchange of info, names etc that we know can’t be put about on here. -
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MrBen – If you feel so strong about the subjects you are wishing to discuss, why not set up your own website and add your comments, that way the companies/people can pursue you directly for hosting and allowing libelous comments to be made against other people.
Just ask the owner of the Sheffield Wed. FC forum…!!
I own and run about 10 websites with 1 having a forum. I only wish I had the same amount of people as Mark does who are willing to give free advise to others.
This site & forum provides a great source of information of which you can choose to agree or disagree with. At the end of the day you joined the forum and agreed to certain T&C’s if you don’t like them and can’t abide by them………..don’t post any threads.
Ian
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@Drakan wrote:
Ben aren’t you overreacting over a small issue ?
Not at all.
If a thread becomes offensive or abuses the terms of the forum then I would suggest it be locked with a warning to that individual. That way you maintain the integrity of threads and the forum remains transparently open with an accurate & true track of the conversations. Mark being an impartial(?) journalist will be only to aware of the perils of censorship.
When I came on here yesterday all of Bernards postings/ replies had been deleted as were the two questions I asked of Mark why these postings had been removed.
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What is libel?
Not the point, Mark’s point is how does he know whether it’s libelous or not? If the person allegedly libeled takes it to court Mark is the one who defends it which of course is a difficult position to be in. There has been cases of forum members being tracked down by those libeled and sued but this was in conjunction with the forum owner.
Anyone (and some of you know this) who has been in any type of litigation will know it takes years of you life to go through and even if you win chances are you won’t.
While I’m not happy with censorship, it’s his forum and quite frankly he can delete what he wants, if we don’t like it we should go elsewhere (not that there is anywhere else to go).
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… While I’m not happy with censorship, it’s his forum and quite frankly he can delete what he wants, if we don’t like it we should go elsewhere (not that there is anywhere else to go).
Fine, in which case place a post explaining the reason the posting was removed/deleted/censored at the point where it was removed/deleted/censored but don’t just remove all traces of it as if it had never existed or been written in the first place. This is my point. By just deleting it the flow of the thread is compromised rendering it difficult to follow and certainly inaccurate as a source of information. It also has an air about it of history being re-written in order to suit a particular aim. Now where has that occurred before?
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@shakeel wrote:
Mr Ben grow up and live in the real world
.. a useful & interesting contribution Shakeel, well done. Shame you have nothing useful to offer on this discussion on censorship.
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[quote=”MrBen……… the flow of the thread is compromised rendering it difficult to follow and certainly inaccurate as a source of information. It also has an air about it of history being re-written in order to suit a particular aim. Now where has that occurred before?[/quote]
This is why I don’t understand why we are all able to edit our postings after someone has responded. I’ve done it myself, as have many. But when this ‘editing’ is done to manipulate the thread, it undermines its integrity. In this virtual world, we seem to be able to ‘take back’ what we’ve already said. Maybe if this changed, it would encourage us to think & think again before we post.
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@Suzanne wrote:
…… the flow of the thread is compromised rendering it difficult to follow and certainly inaccurate as a source of information. It also has an air about it of history being re-written in order to suit a particular aim. Now where has that occurred before?
This is why I don’t understand why we are all able to edit our postings after someone has responded. I’ve done it myself, as have many. But when this ‘editing’ is done to manipulate the thread, it undermines its integrity. In this virtual world, we seem to be able to ‘take back’ what we’ve already said. Maybe if this changed, it would encourage us to think & think again before we post.
Yes, good point. I’ve also done the same. Often when I’ve thought that what I had initially written could perhaps be better rephrased in order to better convey my meaning. But what prompted me to post this thread was that all of Bernards postings & not just one thread had been edited out & removed. It was almost as if the poor fellow had ceased to exist overnight.
When I then posted a question about where had his posts gone and also what had happened to the interesting Spain: Trainwreck or soft landing thread and that question got deleted (twice) Then that raised questions in my mind regarding integrity & accuracy.
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Suzanne wrote:
This is why I don’t understand why we are all able to edit our postings after someone has responded. I’ve done it myself, as have many. But when this ‘editing’ is done to manipulate the thread, it undermines its integrity. In this virtual world, we seem to be able to ‘take back’ what we’ve already said. Maybe if this changed, it would encourage us to think & think again before we post.
I couldn’t agree with you more Suzanne .
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Depends – its your opinion and not fact. The fact is they lost a court case, but they may be appealing in which case nothing should prejudice the appeal.
An opinion is that only and when it is from a diect person, then a libel action can be taken. The problem with forums is people use them to ven their spleens (we all do it in the pub at the end of the day) and as it is written for the public, it is libel.
It only takes one biggy to threaten it and the forum owners are probably the ones at fault as they are the owners, just like newspaper owners.
Its a tough call and would take someone with money time and the effort to let a libel case go to court – theyre usually shrouded in silence anyway.
Perhaps actual facts being written on the forum wuold get away with it as its then not hearsay.
Too much aggro and Im all fo naming/shaming etc, but I do think this forum is allowed a lot of leeway and the rules should be respected for all our good.
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@MrBen wrote:
Regarding the recent deleted & edited threads, Mark replies to me:
MrBen
The other thread is now back, as you can see. That’s why I deleted your question. This note answers your second question, which I have now also deleted.
I took the original thread down over lunch as I didn’t have time to deal with Bernard’s last post before going to lunch. His last post contained potential libellous comments about some of his former employers in Spain, whilst praising his new project in Portugal. Bernard was not following forum rules, even if he meant well.
Please note that I have to take libel risk very seriously. As the forum administrator I can be sued for comments made by others, and have been threatened with legal action on various occasions. For more information see: http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html
This is why the forum rules clearly state you cannot name companies in the forum.
I cannot afford to cope with legal action resulting from posts by others, and do not have the time or resources to police a forum in which libel is serious risk. This little issue alone has taken up several hours of my Sunday afternoon.
Kind regards
Mark
Removing threads which offend you & editing /removing postings is censorship pure & simple. If you consider there are issues then close the thread, but leave its contents intact as a record of the conversation/dialogue.
In my opinion, you are meddling with postings on your website which should be here as an impartial source of information for those concerned with matters of Spain. Ultimately that reflects on your credibility as an impartial journalist?
I suspect you will probably edit/ delete this post. That would be a shame. So I’ve taken the small step of pm’ng this post to several members on this forum by way of security. I look forward to your reply.
Your brainless and an idioit then
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Check out these two web sites – they may provide some answers to the question what is libel and how if can affect web site owners. Would you take a risk as a web-site owner??
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yes what mark has done is censorship.
And if we’re not happy with how he is doing things, we can complain directly to him, which i believe has been done and the thread has been re-instated.
Or simply don’t post or visit this forum anymore.And lets be realistic, Mark polices this forum all by his himself. As the only moderator, taking a zero tolerance approach makes sense.
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“yes what mark has done is censorship” – But nobody is forced to read from it or contribute to it, so if you object, don’t.
“And if we’re not happy with how he is doing things, we can complain directly to him” – Or if you think you can do better and afford the time and funds, set up your own forum.
“Mark polices this forum all by his himself. As the only moderator, taking a zero tolerance approach makes sense.” – His site he is entitled to enforce whatever rules he likes.
It is strange that some people wish to take a “pop” at him for the way he runs the site, but I bet they wouldn’t devote the time themselves to do similar.
Try going into a supemarket and telling them that you don’t like their layout. Do you think they will alter it?
Try telling the bank you don’t like their rules (the interest they charge), will they alter it? -
mg wrote:“yes what mark has done is censorship” – But nobody is forced to read from it or contribute to it, so if you object, don’t.
“And if we’re not happy with how he is doing things, we can complain directly to him” – Or if you think you can do better and afford the time and funds, set up your own forum.
“Mark polices this forum all by his himself. As the only moderator, taking a zero tolerance approach makes sense.” – His site he is entitled to enforce whatever rules he likes.
It is strange that some people wish to take a “pop” at him for the way he runs the site, but I bet they wouldn’t devote the time themselves to do similar.
Try going into a supemarket and telling them that you don’t like their layout. Do you think they will alter it?
Try telling the bank you don’t like their rules (the interest they charge), will they alter it?At not point have i critized mark for how he runs this site. He runs it how he sees fit and has i said, if someone does not like it, don’t post here.
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I don’t see why this is even up for discussion.
The rules are quite clear: “Any posts that mention specific companies by name may be edited or deleted”.
As Mark explained: “As the forum administrator I can be sued for comments made by others, and have been threatened with legal action on various occasions”.
If one doesn’t like the rules of the club, don’t be a member.
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