GREEN HILLS

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    • #52228
      Anonymous
      Participant

      THE TRUTH IS:

      THE DEVELOPMENT HAS A COMPLETE LEGAL LICENCE TO BUILD THE APARTAMENTS. ONLY BLOCKS 1, 2 AND 5 ARE AFFECTED BY SUSPENSION (BLOCKS 3 Y 4 WERE NOT SELLING).

      THE DEVELOPER HAS GIVE ALL THEIR MONEY BACK TO 90% OF THE OWNERS IN BLOCKS 1 TO 5. (SUSPEND LICENCE BY THE COURT).
      THE DEVELOPER LOST ALL COMISIONS PAID (12,5% OF THE TOTAL PRICE OF THE APARTAMENTS). ALL OF THEM HAD THEIR BANK GUARANTEE.

      BLOCKS 6 TO 11 WERE FINISHED ON TIME AND HAS THE FIRST OCCUPATION LICENCE BY ADMINISTRATIVE SILENCE ACCORDING SPANISH LAW (172-5 LOUA). ELECTRICITY AND WATER ARE AVALAIBLE INDIVIDUAL.

      THERE ARE A LOT OF INVESTORS IN THE DEVELOPMENT. THE MARKET IS NOT LIKE TWO YEARS AGO AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT TO MAKE THE DEEDS OF THE APARTAMENTS THEY BOUGTH. THEY CANΒ΄T RESALE NOW AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT THE APARTAMENT. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM.

    • #65681
      Anonymous
      Participant

      You are totally deluded in every aspect of your post 😈

    • #65683
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Eralia employee springs to mind πŸ˜†

    • #65684
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Probably Eralia lawyer or director. I’d lay money on it…..if we hadn’t lost so much on the Green Hills development 😈

    • #65685
      Anonymous
      Participant

      😑 Are we supposed to feel sorry for the developer ? Don’t know where to begin to respond – and frankly I will not waste my time!

    • #65687
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @fair play wrote:

      THE TRUTH IS:

      THE DEVELOPMENT HAS A COMPLETE LEGAL LICENCE TO BUILD THE APARTAMENTS.
      the real truth is your so-called complete legal licence is suspended and waiting for a judicial review sometime in 2007. Until then, there is no current legal licence in existence.

      ONLY BLOCKS 1, 2 AND 5 ARE AFFECTED BY SUSPENSION
      (BLOCKS 3 Y 4 WERE NOT SELLING).
      the real truth is – as blocks 1-5 have never been built, despite millions of euros of people’s money being accepted back in 2003 as deposits, thank goodness you are not still selling blocks 3 and 4 is all I can say.
      (I say ‘you’ because – sorry, you gave the game away πŸ˜‰ , you said “Blocks 3 and 4 we’re not selling…”)

      THE DEVELOPER HAS GIVE ALL THEIR MONEY BACK TO 90% OF THE OWNERS IN BLOCKS 1 TO 5. (SUSPEND LICENCE BY THE COURT).
      The real truth is you didn’t ‘give’ our money back, you made us take you to court to fight for it back – despite not building a brick.
      Out of interest, why haven’t you given the other 10% of purchasers their money back – still waiting for them to take you to court before you’ll pay?

      THE DEVELOPER LOST ALL COMISIONS PAID (12,5% OF THE TOTAL PRICE OF THE APARTAMENTS).
      This was your greed. To encourage agents to bring their clients to you, you agreed to pay them 12.5% commission upfront on signing the initial contract.
      Your licence got suspended and you couldn’t end up building because…..naughty, naughty, your original building licence was for 12 independent dwellings, not 12 blocks of flats – and a bogus nod and wink from Mayor Gil back in 2003 is not standing up now, is it?
      You are now crying because you shot yourself in the foot?
      LOSING MONEY HURTS, DOESN’T IT. 😈

      ALL OF THEM HAD THEIR BANK GUARANTEE.
      The real truth is you are a liar.
      I personally know of four people without Bank Guarantees on Green Hills (there may be more I don’t know of) – and even at this late stage you are refusing to issue them with one.

      BLOCKS 6 TO 11 WERE FINISHED ON TIME AND HAS THE FIRST OCCUPATION LICENCE BY ADMINISTRATIVE SILENCE ACCORDING SPANISH LAW (172-5 LOUA).
      The real truth is, according to the Town Planning Advisor in the new Marbella Town Planning Dept., because the building licence is waiting for a judicial review – a Licence of First Occupation by Ad. Silence is OUT OF THE QUESTION!

      THERE ARE A LOT OF INVESTORS IN THE DEVELOPMENT. THE MARKET IS NOT LIKE TWO YEARS AGO AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT TO MAKE THE DEEDS OF THE APARTAMENTS THEY BOUGTH. THEY CANΒ΄T RESALE NOW AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT THE APARTAMENT. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM.
      Do you honestly b….y wonder why ?
      We originally bought into a development/community, with its own private 9-hole golf-course, club house, security gated etc etc. All that is there now is one group of apartments sitting at the bottom of a hill surrounded by wasteland. Not quite what Green Hills was originally all about, is it?

      Don’t come on this forum ‘holier than thou’ with “the truth is…..”
      – there are too many of us out here who have been lied to, cheated, received empty promises, and have been caused untold stress.
      You post under the name of ‘fair play’? You don’t know the meaning of the word. Suggest you re-check your English-Spanish dictionary.
      If I had to put money on it – I would bet on ‘Fran’ as being more likely?

      Having finally got our money back (via court) after three years at great overall financial loss, am really going to enjoy seeing the company you work for in court when we seek damages.
      If you really want to do something useful, go report that back to your MD.

      Barbara

    • #65688
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ‘Spain’ once wrote:

      quote:
      sorry to say this but people like banushouse and barbara kill forums, they are the most persistent “PUT-DOWNERS” on here, always got a bad word for everything.
      unquote.

      Well, there is a great “PUT-DOWNER” for you ‘Spain’.

      And you wonder why……. πŸ™„

    • #65690
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Ouch & Ouch agian

      Jim

    • #65694
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Polly wrote:

      😑 Are we supposed to feel sorry for the developer ? Don’t know where to begin to respond – and frankly I will not waste my time!

      Those were my sentiments too Polly, hence my one liner. !!…(but I’ve slept on it!)

      Barbara, I knew we could rely on you to give a great response to the diatribe from eralia. You didn’t disappoint πŸ˜€ You should have seen my initial response! r would not let me post it!! πŸ™

      I too hope people (agents) on here will see the type of people Eralia/ MVG are and the s*** that we have put up with from them with their persistant lies. It’s no wonder we have such a black opinion of all assosciated with the property trade. The agents/lawyers backed them to the hilt. Even when it was obvious there were problems they all denied it and said everything was fine. We got regular updates from the agent telling us it was scheduled to finish on time. Infact the licence was suspended 4 weeks & 3 days AFTER our contract was signed by the lawyers in October 2003 😈 😈 😈

      Many of the people Eralia repaid after nearly three years were not given 1€ in interest. Some people were desperate enough to get their money back that they accepted this . SHAME ON YOU ERALIA!

      They didn’t even have the decency or integrity to voluntarily offer us our huge deposits back, in most cases 100,000€+, until we all had to go through lawyers and in some cases the Courts.

      Bank guarantees were not given out until 15 months after the deposits were paid and then post dated for another 18 months!!!!!!!!!!! Some people do not have one to this day! 😈

      NOT ONE ERALIA DIRECTOR HAS HAD THE DECENCY TO MAKE AN APOLOGY TO ONE SINGLE PURCHASER!! THEY ARE A DISGRACE TO THEIR COUNTRY.

    • #65709
      marios
      Participant

      And what does it all boil down to is MONEY CORRUPTS

      Great reply charlie

    • #65725
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Looks like “fairplay” hasn’t got the balls to come back and face his critics!!

    • #66317
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      On a positive note….

      Some people i know that own an estate agency (whom i bought through), have told me that they will not sell properties in this development for the very reasons mentioned here.

    • #66318
      Anonymous
      Participant

      god, i must have really insulted you to still be quoting what I said!! IΒ΄m sorry,it is only my personal opinion, there are enough people on here who donΒ΄t think it and are old enough to make their own minds up if they donΒ΄t know of you so I wouldnΒ΄t worry about little old me.

      however in this case you are very informative and I laud that.I am also sorry that you have had all this sh%t over buying in Spain, itΒ΄s not right that people get away with murder over here with other peoples money, and in some cases life savings.

    • #66319
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Spain – that post of mine was nearly 3 weeks ago now –
      your insult long forgotten now.

      You’ve since posted more recent ‘nonsense’ but am ignoring it this time….. πŸ˜‰ (let’s see how good your sense of humour is!).

      Fuengi – looks like you have found yourself an informed and honest estate agent!

      Barbara

    • #66320
      Anonymous
      Participant

      oh really, prey tell which thread that was, IΒ΄d love to know when IΒ΄m talking nonsense without realising

    • #66321
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @spain wrote:

      what are the interest rates in a building society out of interest?

      i know someone who bought for 165k and sold in the same week for 225k, even taking out taxes and capital gains and all the rest of it, which building society would do that? pray tell…….

      Was that supposed to be a serious question/statement in advising ‘gk’ who posted the original question for advice?
      To even try and state your case for investing in property as against putting your money in a building society by using the above example,
      to me is ‘a nonsense’.

      Sorry Spain….. but as you say: “Just my opinion”. 8)

    • #66322
      Anonymous
      Participant

      youΒ΄re right Barbara, it is your opinion, and if you take the post in context you will see that I was giving real information , and that which differed from that of putting money into a bank , quite how that is nonsense I am not sure and donΒ΄t get your question . Unless I am wrong it would take you years and years and years and years and years and years to make that kind of money.

      i also wasnΒ΄t suggesting he go and do this on the off chance it might work, but showing that money can be made more quickly than in banks.

      next?

    • #66326
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Have to take the dog for a walk……

    • #66327
      Anonymous
      Participant

      have a nice walk, hope its not raining!

    • #66332
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @charlie wrote:

      @spain wrote:

      what are the interest rates in a building society out of interest?

      i know someone who bought for 165k and sold in the same week for 225k, even taking out taxes and capital gains and all the rest of it, which building society would do that? pray tell…….

      Was that supposed to be a serious question/statement in advising ‘gk’ who posted the original question for advice?
      To even try and state your case for investing in property as against putting your money in a building society by using the above example,
      to me is ‘a nonsense’.

      Sorry Spain….. but as you say: “Just my opinion”. 8)

      Oh come on Spain get real. You are comparing apples with politicians here. You can not seriously compare putting your money in a building society with making 60,000 in a week on one property deal. For every 1 property deal like that (assuming there is more than one) I would guess there will be 1000’s of others where people lose money or at best break even. If the 60,000 profit was a guaranteed return for all like from a building society, then you could make the comparison.

      At the end of the day, it is all about risk versus reward. The trick is to manage and minimise the risk to maximise the reward. In my humble opinion investing in property abroad is too great a risk that can’t be managed for what could turn out to be minimal reward.
      Kevin

    • #66333
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I think the best laugh of all, aren’t the idiots who believe the “agents speak” of the guaranteed profits, it is the dumbo agents who sit for hours trying to sell, when they could just buy some fropeerties, sit back for a few months and wait for the profits which they “guarantee” the punter, to roll in. If they had any sense, they would buy 20 of them now.
      Why stop at 20, buy the whole of the Country, with such GUARANTEED profits, any bank would fund it????????

    • #66337
      katy
      Blocked

      MG, absolutely, a voice of reason at last. Why do people listen to agents though? is it because they only want the good news?

    • #66340
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @spain wrote:

      ignore everyone telling you not to buy off plan, some bad experiences for some people have made them tell everyone not to bother, when in fact there are probably thousands of people who donΒ΄t experience problems…my parents for one.

      “….some bad experiences for some people…..????

      Another bit of nonsense.
      Yes, there must be many thousands who don’t experience problems, and yes I am very happy for your parents. I wouldn’t wish our experience on anyone.

      However I hate to disillusion you Spain, but your “some bad experiences for some people” is at best a misleading comment πŸ™„
      Did you not read that 19 licences on Friday alone were under a review? How many apartments involved there?

      We definitely number in the thousands. ….and having “some bad experiences” is not quite how we would describe it.

      Or am I quoting you out of context ‘again’ ❓
      (No, it’s not raining, the weather here is quite beautiful at the moment).

    • #66341
      Anonymous
      Participant

      “In my humble opinion investing in property abroad is too great a risk that can’t be managed for what could turn out to be minimal reward”.

      As far as the Spanish property market is concerned, in today’s current climate, I totally agree with you Kevin.
      And I think Vince’s recommendation, in answer to someone needing purely an investment, the UK property market with good rental potential to cover a mortgage hits the nail on the head.
      I certainly wish now that back in 2003 I had invested my Β£100,000 deposit in the UK instead of Spain. Oh for the gift of hindsight!

    • #66345
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I think that this “lark” in investing in overseas property is a farce.
      You invest YOUR money to see a return, therefore, surely if you have to borrow to purchase the property and hope to rent out the property, that is always a gamble and not an investment, and you pay the banks for the privelige of taking a gamble. May as well visit a casino, borrow some money from them and squander it away on the tables, then repay them with interest.
      Afterwards, the tears and expect people to feel sorry.

      With the housing market being as it is in UK, why have people purchased overseas, if they are looking at it as an investment.

      Regarding purchasing off plan. I am surprised that people do this, then don’t visit for 6, 9 or 12 months later, letting a company play with their money. Then their surprise when they find out that things are so far behind. Please, get real.
      Perhaps if it was their money which they had worked for and not bought on loan, they would look after their cash more.

      Finally, it should be remembered that property investment is a serious business, although TV and easy money tries to convince all that everyone can become a developer or investor.
      Possibly the same a Joe Bloggs thinking he can do brain surgery overnight?

      Regarding “certainly wish now that back in 2003 I had invested my Β£100,000 deposit in the UK instead of Spain” confirms my comment that property investment is a serious business and unless you are a professional, or have stacks of cash, be warned.

    • #66346
      Anonymous
      Participant

      mg

      i agree with you now, but it’s easy to be wise at this time. When we first looked in the middle of 2001, the ‘off plan’ development apartments were selling for Β£65,000, when we looked again in feb 2002, they had gone up to Β£72,000 so were increasing at that time about Β£1000,00 a month. How could we go wrong?……….oh dear, oh dear,’how naive we were’, i can hear people saying, but it really did look like a winner at the time, compared to anything else.

    • #66347
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Wrote this back in December in respone to a client looking to invest in Bulgaria. It is also equally aplicable to Spain or any other country.

      Investing: the act of investing; laying out money or capital in an enterprise with the expectation of Profit.

      Much has been read and heard about supposed “Emerging Markets” and “Property Hotspots” but what does it all really mean. In essence it means an area that is undergoing growth and property price increases, but to maintain property price growth several other factors need to be considered. Apart from building properties at a breakneck speed does the area have plans for new infrastructure, power, water, roads, airports, hospitals, schools; the list is endless and will sooner or later have a bearing on price levels when things go out of equilibrium.

      Consider the following you have purchased a property in an area considered as an “Emerging Market” probably off plan before construction to either sell on completion to realise the capital growth, or as a longer term investment with rental incomes. OK so far so good.

      Scenario 1, your off plan property is now ready you have made all appropriate payments and you wish to sell on,

      a) Local Estate Agents will pay you lip service but are far more interested in continuing to sell new off plan properties where their levels of commissions are higher.

      b) Potential buyers are thin on the ground as they are all doing the same as you wished to do and buying off plan

      Scenario 2, Your off plan property is complete you have made all appropriate payments and you wish to rent your property out. Or in scenario 1, you have failed to sell your property and need to realise some rental income to pay your possible mortgage and ongoing costs.

      a) The rental market is awash with new build properties all trying to rent out, the growth in tourist numbers is exceeded by the number of rental properties available on the market.

      b) Potential renters want to stay in an established area with good services and infrastructure, not within or next door to the ever increasing number of construction sites.

      c) Finding English speaking rental agents who are dependable and trustworthy is difficult and expensive, take in account your low incomes as a result of a) & b) the % taken by the rental agent and you will probably find your bank balance reducing rather than increasing.

      Other potential issues to consider
      Legality of construction
      Appropriate paperwork, licenses etc.
      Reselling implications
      Tax and fiscal obligations
      Your exit plan

      Remember you have read, heard, and no doubt been told that property prices are increasing by 20-30% per annum in this area! and yes for the prices of off plan properties they may well be, but this figure is based on the average selling price, in an emerging market possibly 90% plus of these sales are off plan properties like yours, the resale markets may not be increasing at anywhere near these levels. Realising the potential capital gains quickly from an off plan property only really works where there is a balanced stock of buyers, available properties, and property types, and the levels of construction is supported by the local infrastructure and services.

      In summary consider what you really wish to achieve from your investment have a game plan or agenda, get all your facts straight, dont just think about buying, think about selling and your exit plan. Have a contingency for financial issues that may arise. Seriously consider if emerging markets are for you, remember you only only realise your investment as and if you can sell it. Consider, if the investment potential was so great these opportunities would be snapped up by financial institutes, and fund managers, etc.

      Whatever you decide ensure you are investing, and not merely speculating. Investments by their nature involve an element of risk, however professional investors are able to identify, quantify and manage the associated risk.

      This is not to say that all off plan developments are bad and not worthy of consideration but do ensue you are focused on the bigger picture.

      Jim

    • #66348
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ha ha ha

      i can tell this thread is going to turn into one of those 20 pade ones with banter going back and forth before being locked as itΒ΄s gone way off the original question!

      kpw4v

      i never said that this was something that most people can do, not even remotely, just giving another side of the coin of what CAN be achieved if done well.

      barbara, ok, maybe “some” was the wrong word you are right. lots maybe a better word, however one question, how many apartments are there on this coast, and how mant developments?hundreds of developments at least, so taking into account that 19 licrenses are under review, that means that there are tenfold that many that arenΒ΄t, leaving “LOTS” more people unaffected.

      therefore, do not but off plan could also be misconstrued as a misleading comment to all those many more poeple who have bought off plan in these other developments without problems, no?

    • #66350
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @charlie wrote:

      @spain wrote:

      However I hate to disillusion you Spain, but your “some bad experiences for some people” is at best a misleading comment πŸ™„
      Did you not read that 19 licences on Friday alone were under a review? How many apartments involved there?

      We definitely number in the thousands. ….and having “some bad experiences” is not quite how we would describe it.

      But they make up a very tiny fraction of the total is what i think he’s trying to say. Which is true.

    • #66351
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      Oh and I agree whole heartedly with mg and jimmyspain. I went to a couple of exhibitions in london a few years back and was i suprised.

      I hate to say this but a lot of off-plan investors deserve what they got. All you could see at these exhibitions was in the eyes of both buyers and agents.

      Buy this property in Nueva andalucia, double your money, sell before completion!

      Which to most people meant the full value of the property, NOT the money you put in, which after taxes, etc.. works out to peanuts.They will be easy to re-sell at a profit. We can list iit for you.

      Yet the agents never took a single resale to them on exhibition, oh and by the way how easy will it be to sell when the owners of the other 800 properties next door are trying to do the same thing?

      If you don’t want to sell you can get at least X amount from renting and cover the mortgage!

      REALLY??? Please show me the current rental statistics of the area. What are the current demographics of the clients… What has this property have that the other don’t?

      Oh and what is it with these agents in polos and jeans????
      You go to a car/anything showroom and you expect the salesmen to be well dressed, reflecting the seriousness of your investment. What do you get instead a salesman who approaches you saying: ” ‘allo mate how can i elp ya?. Nah mate your make a killin’ in Benalmadina or in Nuva andalusia, trust me!”

    • #66352
      Melosine
      Participant

      I can understand people buying off plan when a development is already under construction . This could be deemed as an investment ( providing all paperwork is in place.).which in many cases it hasn’t been and therefore people have been conned. But fail to see the logic in using collateral especially from one’s main property to “invest” in an artistic impression (legal or not) . This I would classify as a gamble. One with not only odds stacked against you but rate of borrowing would cancel out majority if not all of the profit.
      Much emphasis ihas been placed on “doing one’s homework” about the countries but perhaps it should be emphasied that this homework should also include financial caalculations and probabilities

    • #66353
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant
      Melosine wrote:
      I can understand people buying off plan when a development is already under construction . This could be deemed as an investment ( providing all paperwork is in place.).which in many cases it hasn’t been and therefore people have been conned. But fail to see the logic in using collateral especially from one’s main property to “invest” in an artistic impression (legal or not) . This I would classify as a gamble. One with not only odds stacked against you but rate of borrowing would cancel out majority if not all of the profit.
      Much emphasis ihas been placed on “doing one’s homework” about the countries but perhaps it should be emphasied that this homework should also include financial caalculations and probabilities

      absolutely right!
      But then remember you are talking about people that were willing to hand over 3000 to 6000€ to an agent at an exhibition based on a model or drawing.

    • #66354
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Fuengi

      a tiny fraction of bad experiences?,……… reading through this and other forums, i would think the amount of ‘off plan’ purchases’ on the CDS in particular that are happy are more like a ‘tiny fraction’ I think at best, many people are ‘making the best’ of a poor situation. I just dont read many positive posts about buying ‘off plan’. Even allowing for the fact that some of the happy one’s have no reason to post, i think some would anyway to balance the negative comments.

    • #66355
      Anonymous
      Participant

      hi goodstitch

      what you have said there is true, however how many people ever come onto forums posting how good things have been? very few…but that is the whole reason why, happy customers have no need to come on and say this, that is why any forum you look at, will nearly always be full of people who need help and have had problems. I myself use a number of different forums and this point has been menioned on nearly all of them.

      happy = no post
      unhappy = lots of posts

      its the same for me, I bought a car, got conned big time and there are a million posts from me complaining about that fact, however now my car is ok, i hardly ever post as I dont feel the need to.

    • #66356
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @goodstich44 wrote:

      Fuengi

      a tiny fraction of bad experiences?,……… reading through this and other forums, i would think the amount of ‘off plan’ purchases’ on the CDS in particular that are happy are more like a ‘tiny fraction’ I think at best, many people are ‘making the best’ of a poor situation. I just dont read many positive posts about buying ‘off plan’. Even allowing for the fact that some of the happy one’s have no reason to post, i think some would anyway to balance the negative comments.

      πŸ˜† People are not really known for specifically going on forums to give good news. This or any other site i go to.

      And yes it is a tiny fraction (until proven otherwise ofcourse).
      As Charlie said:

      We definitely number in the thousands. ….and having “some bad experiences” is not quite how we would describe it.

      Yet on average 500.000 properties are built yearly. A few thousand people is a small fraction.
      Even assuming there are 10.000 people that have had problems that is only 2%.

      P.S. I am one of the happy purchasers, although it was not an off-plan.

    • #66357
      Melosine
      Participant

      Can perfectly understand anyone initially speculating with up to 5000k to “invest” in anything especially property. Anywhere . Some you win some you don’t that’s what speculating is all about.
      However I am warning about throwing more pennies into the pot on a “promise ” and using collateral from one’s main residence. This not only increases the risk 100 fold but often the sums just don’t add up.
      Like everyone else I would love a gamble to pay off but the chances are they won’t.

      Goodstitch44 you are right in your assumptions.
      Reading other forums there are many folk with build problems,some of great magnitude some petty , who prefer to take on the attitude “this is Spain” πŸ™„
      Why ? Because others may find out they are victims of either a rogue developer or by their own foolishness.

      IF you admit things have gone awry even when others might be inclined to snigger , and do something about it, then not only will you eventually win your battle but hopefully others will be forewarned and forarmed.

      However ,Stiff upper lip springs to mind with most Brits

    • #66358
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Fuengi

      please don’t try and tell me that only 2 people out of every 100 are having buying problems in spain! I would love to see a poll to reflect the real number!

      Melosine

      i think many people are trying to do something about it, but have their hands tied by corruption and a very poor system of justice, and in that respect, i sympathise with the ‘this is spain’ attitude. There are several recent posts from people who have taken a developer/lawyer/agent, to court over a black and white issue and still lost?, and that point is obviously not lost on the sharks.

      I really feel the odds of a good transaction when buying in spain are slim and as for ‘off plan’,……. until common sense laws prevail, i would think anyone would be mad to even think about it.

    • #66359
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @goodstich44 wrote:

      Fuengi

      please don’t try and tell me that only 2 people out of every 100 are having buying problems in spain! I would love to see a poll to reflect the real number!

      mmmm… no.
      you are the one that says alot of people are having problems with with buying in spain. As your the one making the accusation, you’re the one that has to show the statistics proving your point. Burden of proof and all that.

      Please look again at what i said. Reading carefully is an asset on these sort of forums.

      Even assuming there are 10.000 people that have had problems that is only 2%.

      Notice the bolded word?

      maybe its only 3000 people maybe its 200.000 over the last 3 years, BUT until someone presents statistics (neutral ones), i’m still believe that the people with problems make up a small fraction of the total.

      (Please note aifos skewer the results. πŸ˜› )

    • #66362
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I DONT HAVE THE STATISTICS BUT IF THIS FORUM IS JUST TO GO BUY AND MY OWN EXPERIENCE I AGREE.

      BUT UNTIL US BRITS DONT VOTE WITH OUR FEET AND LET THE SYSTEM GET US RIPPED OFF THIS WILL CARRY ON.

      IN THE OLDEN DAYS SPAIN WAS CHEAP AND PEOPLE TAKE A VIEW ON IT THIS NOE NOT THE CASE.

      LET ME POINT OUT

      1)CORROUPT LAWYERS: WHAT THE COLLEGE OF ABAGADOS DO?

      2) hACCIENDA: CHARGING HIGHER CGT CHARGING FOR EMPTY PROPRTY, NOT ALLOWING NON RESIDENTS TO OFSET THEIR COST, CAN NOT REFUND TAX FOR YEARS AND DONT THAN DONT PAY INTEREST.

      3) INCOMPETANT COUNCIL CANNOT SET RATES IN GOOD TIME BUT WILL FINE YOU FOR DELAY

      4) UTILITIES COMPANIES NON ANSERABLE.

      I RECENTLY READ THAT THE HOUSING MINISTER WAS TALKING ABOUT DOUBLING THE RATE/COUNCIL TAX FOR EMPTY PROPERTIES ( IT DOES TAKE A LOT TO GUESS WHO THAT IS AIMED AT ) PERHAPS BEFORE HE CAN DO THIS HE SHOULD ASK THE LEGAL SYSTEM/JUDES TO DISH OUT A FAIR RENTALS LAWS. AS I FOR ONE WILL NOT RENT MY PROPERTY FOR 11 MONTHS OR LESS ETC. F

      I CAN GO ON BUT I AM SURE YOU ALL HAVE GONE TO SLEEP BY NOW.

    • #66364
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Goodstich, These”bored, nothing else to do estate agents “are playing mind games and winding you up. Don’t waste your time on them.

    • #66365
      Anonymous
      Participant

      The Andalucia government, β€œJunta de Andalucia”, has intervened against 700 building licences given by the GIL-governments, based on the illegal general plan.

      The 19 licences reviewed last Friday were just the first few of them. πŸ™„

      Take an average of 100 apartments per development (ours was nearly 200) then you are possibly looking at approx. 70,000 home owners not having a very good Spanish property buying experience.

      To me that is 70,000 too many and a quite disgusting total for the Andalucian part of Spain alone.

      Personally, I don’t really care whether this represents 2%, 30% or half of just 1% of the happy bunnies who bought and have no problems.
      And as for ‘burden of proof’ – the 700 licences were publicly announced and are a fact, whatever any of you want to write pages about.

      And why does the ‘burden of proof’ fall on Goodstich? It was ‘Spain’ who originally made the statement, inferring only ‘some’ had problems as against ‘thousands’ who didn’t. No ‘burden of proof’ demanded there !

      The fact remains that tens of thousands of people who wanted to buy a property in Spain, for whatever reasons, and by whatever financial means they choose, have been screwed by a melting pot of rogue lawyers, rogue agents and rogue developers.

      It shouldn’t be their motivation for buying or the financial means with which they want to make the purchase that should be diagnosed and criticised – surely that is their business. If they get their fingers burned later in the day, that is down to them and their own financial management and personal decision taking.

      But when a developer takes your money, then doesn’t provide the goods for whatever reason (in a lot of cases because they didn’t even have the title deeds of the land, or a valid building licence), then it is their actions that have caused the current misery going on today that is affecting so many people.

      Whether it is a “small fraction of the total” or not – for me it is irrelevant.
      Tens of thousands are too many.

    • #66368
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Fuengi wrote

      Yet on average 500.000 properties are built yearly. A few thousand people is a small fraction.
      Even assuming there are 10.000 people that have had problems that is only 2%.

      The point is that these problems dont happen as isloated events it occurs on block affecting many people. A development near us 450 houses were all 18-24 months late, no one recieved the compensation clearly set out in the contracts for delays. After two years since first owners completed they still have no LFO’s problems with snags etc. So without exception everyone had/has problems, so on that development its 100% with problems.

      Jim

    • #66369
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Ps to last post it seems like they are the lucky ones

      Jim

    • #66370
      Melosine
      Participant

      To be perfectly honest the only people I know who have gotten away, not scott free exactly , but lightly are those who either bought new developements more than 5 years ago , resales or those who did individuals builds
      Referring back to what I said earlier about many people just accepting situations I would hazard a guess at 70% have problems and rising once the developers agents ,via exhibitions , have suckered in yet more folk.

      I am confused Claire….have re-read all posts , gone a trifle off subject agree ,but cannot see how anyone can be accused of playing “mind games” with anyone. Just individuals expressing their own opinions.

    • #66371
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @shakeel wrote:

      I RECENTLY READ THAT THE HOUSING MINISTER WAS TALKING ABOUT DOUBLING THE RATE/COUNCIL TAX FOR EMPTY PROPERTIES ( IT DOES TAKE A LOT TO GUESS WHO THAT IS AIMED AT ) PERHAPS BEFORE HE CAN DO THIS HE SHOULD ASK THE LEGAL SYSTEM/JUDES TO DISH OUT A FAIR RENTALS LAWS. AS I FOR ONE WILL NOT RENT MY PROPERTY FOR 11 MONTHS OR LESS ETC. F

      all previous are absolutely right!
      But this one..
      I infer that your refering to the ‘foreign’ market. You do realise that this will probably affect the spanish far more that the foreigners don’t you? as there are 2 properties per spanish family here in spain. That and the fact that stastically spanish people own more property than any other people in europe (currently).

    • #66372
      Anonymous
      Participant

      the fact remains that they have been building in spain since around the 60Β΄s-70-s and thats a lot of builds, and since the problems seem to have really begun over the last 4 years thats still a lot of people who arenΒ΄t affected.

      and by the way as you said Barbara, “Whether it is a “small fraction of the total” or not – for me it is irrelevant. ” – I do not disagree with that either, and have never inferred that it doesnΒ΄t matter. Th reason we are having this conversation is bacuse you said to me that I had under-exaggerated with the word “some” and I was was saying yes I have, but there are lots more without problems.

    • #66373
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @charlie wrote:

      The Andalucia government, β€œJunta de Andalucia”, has intervened against 700 building licences given by the GIL-governments, based on the illegal general plan.

      The 19 licences reviewed last Friday were just the first few of them. πŸ™„

      I think this is great! There should be no illegal builds whatsoever! I HATE the fact there are buildings in green zones in and around marbella.

      Take an average of 100 apartments per development (ours was nearly 200) then you are possibly looking at approx. 70,000 home owners not having a very good Spanish property buying experience.

      To me that is 70,000 too many and a quite disgusting total for the Andalucian part of Spain alone.

      well of course! Even if it were only 100 people it would still be wrong. Anyone falling foul of an agent/development/etc.. get’s my simpathy and I hope the relevant people are brought to justice.

      Personally, I don’t really care whether this represents 2%, 30% or half of just 1% of the happy bunnies who bought and have no problems.
      And as for ‘burden of proof’ – the 700 licences were publicly announced and are a fact, whatever any of you want to write pages about.

      And why does the ‘burden of proof’ fall on Goodstich? It was ‘Spain’ who originally made the statement, inferring only ‘some’ had problems as against ‘thousands’ who didn’t. No ‘burden of proof’ demanded there !

      Burden of proof fell on Goodstich because he argued with my assumption. Which I admit freely is not based on hard facts. So if my opinion is wrong, and can be proven, why would I argue?

      The fact remains that tens of thousands of people who wanted to buy a property in Spain, for whatever reasons, and by whatever financial means they choose, have been screwed by a melting pot of rogue lawyers, rogue agents and rogue developers.

      maybe, maybe not. I’m only willing to believe it when its proven.

      It shouldn’t be their motivation for buying or the financial means with which they want to make the purchase that should be diagnosed and criticised – surely that is their business. If they get their fingers burned later in the day, that is down to them and their own financial management and personal decision taking.

      why not? Seems to be human nature to criticise other peoples decisions. πŸ˜‰

      But when a developer takes your money, then doesn’t provide the goods for whatever reason (in a lot of cases because they didn’t even have the title deeds of the land, or a valid building licence), then it is their actions that have caused the current misery going on today that is affecting so many people.

      And those developers should be held accountable, hopefully with time, them and the agencies will be. But i will still criticise people’s decisions. That’s the wonderful thing about opinions, their mine.

      Woud you go into a car show room, run by staff that talk the talk but the F-all about cars and buy it on his/her word? Maybe if their mechanic, who is of course impartial, says its ok? I would’nt. I’d have someone I know have a look at the car. Make sure all the papers are in order, etc… but maybe that’s just me then.

      Whether it is a “small fraction of the total” or not – for me it is irrelevant.
      Tens of thousands are too many.

      if its ten its too many. I guess i’m just surprised at the level of trust brits are willing to give to agents/developers when most of them would’nt trust a neighbour to take care of their dog (for example)

    • #66374
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @jiminspain wrote:

      Fuengi wrote

      Yet on average 500.000 properties are built yearly. A few thousand people is a small fraction.
      Even assuming there are 10.000 people that have had problems that is only 2%.

      The point is that these problems dont happen as isloated events it occurs on block affecting many people. A development near us 450 houses were all 18-24 months late, no one recieved the compensation clearly set out in the contracts for delays. After two years since first owners completed they still have no LFO’s problems with snags etc. So without exception everyone had/has problems, so on that development its 100% with problems.

      Jim

      sigh. hope it gets sorted out. what development (PM please if you can’t say here, please)? Were they all foreigners, if so brits, scandis, etc… or nationals?

    • #66380
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Melosine wrote:

      To be perfectly honest the only people I know who have gotten away, not scott free exactly , but lightly are those who either bought new developements more than 5 years ago , resales or those who did individuals builds

      Exactly Melosine.

      Which brings us back to page 2 where this all started and where I quoted ‘Spain’. It was from a thread discussing off-plans as a potential ‘investment’ for someone who was seeking advice.
      For just that – an ‘investment’.
      I felt his advice was misleading (a nonsense actually), and it’s kind of gone on from there all day – mostly REA’s supporting off-plans as a consideration and others including myself, Claire,Goodstich and many others who feel they are just too risky in this current market.

      To me the numbers where purcases have gone wrong are staggering, and to be honest – it sticks in my throat when I read comments like:
      “Even assuming there are 10,000 people that have had problems that is only 2%” as though being ‘only 2%’ makes it alright then.

      Behind every purchaser that is caught up in this, there is heartache and dreadful stress as to what to do. Like the lady who wrote to me and said she was sobbing with despair as she was typing me her story.
      Sitting behind a REA’s desk, it’s easy to say off-plans should still be considered.

      I have always said on this forum, in today’s current uncertain market, off-plans in Spain are too risky – whether it is purely for investment purposes (as per the original poster) or (as in my case and many others) it is for a future permanent home.
      Of course there are good ones out there, but it is a minefield trying to find them.

      And with respect, Fuengi, why make this example?:

      @Fuengi wrote:

      .

      Woud you go into a car show room, run by staff that talk the talk but the F-all about cars and buy it on his/her word? Maybe if their mechanic, who is of course impartial, says its ok? I would’nt. I’d have someone I know have a look at the car. Make sure all the papers are in order, etc… but maybe that’s just me then.

      “I’d have someone I know have a look at the car. Make sure all the papers are in order, etc…”

      Are you trying to insinuate that we didn’t do exactly that?
      For your information that person, when buying property (and not a car), is called A LAWYER!

      But as we all now know, there are many lawyers in the same melting pot along with certain agents and developers.

      We didn’t go to a property exhibition, we went to Spain – three times over three months, visited loads of developments, spoke to the developer, looked at previous developments by him, checked articles/website, checked building licence, did company search, took time over decision….etc. etc. and still got burned.

      Don’t lecture/patronise me Fuengi about how we should make sure all is ok before purchasing.
      As Claire once wrote, our only error was not having the foresight in knowing the local Mayor (along with the developer) was corrupt.

    • #66381
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I am confused Barbara, which advice did I give that was nonsense?

    • #66382
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @charlie wrote:

      And with respect, Fuengi, why make this example?:

      Are you trying to insinuate that we didn’t do exactly that?
      For your information that person, when buying property (and not a car), is called A LAWYER!

      it was an example. I am not trying to insinuate anything. As I repeat my opinions are my own. In regards to your situation I have no idea how you went about it.

      But as we all now know, there are many lawyers in the same melting pot along with certain agents and developers.

      What the lawyers recommended by developers are not 100% independent??? (my attempt at humour)

      We didn’t go to a property exhibition, we went to Spain – three times over three months, visited loads of developments, spoke to the developer, looked at previous developments by him, checked articles/website, checked building licence, did company search, took time over decision….etc. etc. and still got burned.

      Then you are in the extreme minority. Because I’m willing to be most property purchasers were not as rigorous, or after such thorough work still got unlucky.

      Don’t lecture/patronise me Fuengi about how we should make sure all is ok before purchasing.

      not lecturing/patronising. If you do not like my posts your free to not read them. Again MY opinion.

      As Claire once wrote, our only error was not having the foresight in knowing the local Mayor (along with the developer) was corrupt.

      Very true. On a plus note did’nt the Junta de Andalucia say they would legalise 80something % of the illegal builds?

      Edit: actually yes what i said before was probably an insinuation, although not directly aimed at you.

      But when a developer takes your money, then doesn’t provide the goods for whatever reason (in a lot of cases because they didn’t even have the title deeds of the land, or a valid building licence), then it is their actions that have caused the current misery going on today that is affecting so many people.

      In relation to the above quote, yes i think these people made a silly and costly mistake.

    • #66386
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Fuengi

      When I said:
      “But when a developer takes your money, then doesn’t provide the goods for whatever reason (in a lot of cases because they didn’t even have the title deeds of the land, or a valid building licence), then it is their actions that have caused the current misery going on today that is affecting so many people”.

      I didn’t mean the purchasers’ actions, I meant the developers’….

    • #66387
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @charlie wrote:

      Fuengi

      When I said:
      “But when a developer takes your money, then doesn’t provide the goods for whatever reason (in a lot of cases because they didn’t even have the title deeds of the land, or a valid building licence), then it is their actions that have caused the current misery going on today that is affecting so many people”.

      I didn’t mean the purchasers’ actions, I meant the developers’….

      I meant both πŸ˜‰

      it seems short sighted for the developers to do this, simply because it will come back and bite them on the ass. And I have a feeling people on this site will be cheering.

      But I also see it as the purchasers fault. Yes in a few cases people like you have done their homework and have still got burned. And i feel sorry for you (not patronising πŸ˜‰ just sympathy), but for people that simply trusted the developers, did not do their homework and are now complaining, my first thought is “what? you got burned by X? They were misleading you about guaranteed rental/resale??? surprise, surprise.”

      This is not aimed at anyone on this forum, but as i mentioned in a previous post, people got fed bullshit at an exhibition and asked for more!!!
      I was 23, had never bought a property in my life, and even i could see it was utter bollocks. Yet these people trusted the slimiest salepeople imaginable (i think we all know the time-share type) and bought based on a drawing or model.

    • #66388
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi dont post much on here but becoming addicted 😳 I bought of plan in 2002 but would not look at the agents who where targeting the expats(even then I heard the stories) I bought in a spanish area on mijas costa as I figured it would be a brave company to hurt their own-paid deposits in a porta cabin to a young man with no english, never used a solicitor even at the notary and moved in when completed like my neighbours without the licence as I did not know about it- I thought six months on builders supply normal and my tumble dryer never stopped πŸ˜† But after reading stories on here I would have been to scared to buy! P.S Just signed last week for another off plan -same area same story

    • #66389
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @mags wrote:

      Hi dont post much on here but becoming addicted 😳 I bought of plan in 2002 but would not look at the agents who where targeting the expats(even then I heard the stories) I bought in a spanish area on mijas costa as I figured it would be a brave company to hurt their own-paid deposits in a porta cabin to a young man with no english, never used a solicitor even at the notary and moved in when completed like my neighbours without the licence as I did not know about it- I thought six months on builders supply normal and my tumble dryer never stopped πŸ˜† But after reading stories on here I would have been to scared to buy! P.S Just signed last week for another off plan -same area same story

      you were lucky!
      But either way congrats.
      See another positive purchase, actually 2!

      😈 our ranks are growing, soon we will be strong enough to turn spanish property insight in a pro-development forum mwahaha 😈

      On this final note, good night, i’m off to work.

    • #66415
      Anonymous
      Participant

      …….lets just cut the crap, and admit many honest people are being screwed, not because anything thing they have done is wrong, but because at some stage they have had to put their trust in liars, fraudsters and scumbags!

    • #66419
      Fuengi (Andrew)
      Participant

      @goodstich44 wrote:

      …….lets just cut the crap, and admit many honest people are being screwed, not because anything thing they have done is wrong, but because at some stage they have had to put their trust in liars, fraudsters and scumbags!

      Pretty much.

    • #68432
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @fair play wrote:

      THE TRUTH IS:

      THE DEVELOPMENT HAS A COMPLETE LEGAL LICENCE TO BUILD THE APARTAMENTS. ONLY BLOCKS 1, 2 AND 5 ARE AFFECTED BY SUSPENSION (BLOCKS 3 Y 4 WERE NOT SELLING).

      THE DEVELOPER HAS GIVE ALL THEIR MONEY BACK TO 90% OF THE OWNERS IN BLOCKS 1 TO 5. (SUSPEND LICENCE BY THE COURT).
      THE DEVELOPER LOST ALL COMISIONS PAID (12,5% OF THE TOTAL PRICE OF THE APARTAMENTS). ALL OF THEM HAD THEIR BANK GUARANTEE.

      BLOCKS 6 TO 11 WERE FINISHED ON TIME AND HAS THE FIRST OCCUPATION LICENCE BY ADMINISTRATIVE SILENCE ACCORDING SPANISH LAW (172-5 LOUA). ELECTRICITY AND WATER ARE AVALAIBLE INDIVIDUAL.

      THERE ARE A LOT OF INVESTORS IN THE DEVELOPMENT. THE MARKET IS NOT LIKE TWO YEARS AGO AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT TO MAKE THE DEEDS OF THE APARTAMENTS THEY BOUGTH. THEY CANΒ΄T RESALE NOW AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT THE APARTAMENT. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM.

    • #68433
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Over the short time I have read the contacts between various parties regarding the recent Elviria developments
      The fact is that the practices you are all complaining about has been carrying on for many years and I dont hear many people complaining where they purchased a property a few years back at say 250,000 euros and now they are worth 350,000 +euros
      The sad fact is we all wanted a slice of the action and its unfortunate that stopped in the way it has.
      Yes the house prices have stalled and it seems to me that many are looking to point the finger at anyone they can exept themselves.
      Do you think that developers like Eralia wanted this to happen,they like everyone were part of the game and they too have lost dearly.
      I note the commeents on Green Hills and has anyone had a look at this development recently ?
      The quality of these spacious apartments and the swimmingpools/gardens are excellent and yes there is not yet another golf course instead you have the natural woodland looking out to sea.
      Yes there is the area that the first phase was supposed to go that looks barren but this is now growing back to its former hillside
      A few nice vllas on this hillside and this would be an idylic location close to possibly the best beaches in the Costa del Sol,definetly the best weather.
      When everything settles down and this corruption mess is sorted it will be down to the same facts as anywhere else is the world.
      Quality products in prime locations and with Elviria thats just what you have ,that why many of the people in the know ie agents and solicitors live there
      Give it a couple of years,with the building around this area now stopped and the Marbella council get there act together to bring confidence back to the market and this will prove to be a fair medium to long term investment
      However the guys in it for a quick buck will be disapointed but as they say it was the clear that all went for the gamble and as such you play ,sometimes you win and sometimes you loose but not in this case if you hang in their
      Elviria will beat Manilva.Estepona Duquesa,Benalmandana ect every day of the week,always has an always will as regards investment,.
      Now if we look at La Reserva de Marbella ,now that thats a completly different story of a poor quality development and about the worst company I could ever imagine and will am sure be a complete white elephant ,poor investment

      THE DEVELOPMENT HAS A COMPLETE LEGAL LICENCE TO BUILD THE APARTAMENTS. ONLY BLOCKS 1, 2 AND 5 ARE AFFECTED BY SUSPENSION (BLOCKS 3 Y 4 WERE NOT SELLING).

      THE DEVELOPER HAS GIVE ALL THEIR MONEY BACK TO 90% OF THE OWNERS IN BLOCKS 1 TO 5. (SUSPEND LICENCE BY THE COURT).
      THE DEVELOPER LOST ALL COMISIONS PAID (12,5% OF THE TOTAL PRICE OF THE APARTAMENTS). ALL OF THEM HAD THEIR BANK GUARANTEE.

      BLOCKS 6 TO 11 WERE FINISHED ON TIME AND HAS THE FIRST OCCUPATION LICENCE BY ADMINISTRATIVE SILENCE ACCORDING SPANISH LAW (172-5 LOUA). ELECTRICITY AND WATER ARE AVALAIBLE INDIVIDUAL.

      THERE ARE A LOT OF INVESTORS IN THE DEVELOPMENT. THE MARKET IS NOT LIKE TWO YEARS AGO AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT TO MAKE THE DEEDS OF THE APARTAMENTS THEY BOUGTH. THEY CANΒ΄T RESALE NOW AND THEY DONΒ΄T WANT THE APARTAMENT. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM.[/quote] πŸ˜€

    • #68434
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Sunbelt, you are writing complete C**P πŸ‘Ώ

    • #68435
      Anonymous
      Participant

      sunbelt – I’m afraid the truth of the matter is Green Hills, upper and lower blocks, were all on the same building licence that was officially suspended in March 2004. The original BL was for town houses, not blocks of appartments.

      The lower blocks therefore have a suspended building licence waiting for a judicial review.
      There is no Licence of First Occupation, through Administrative Silence or otherwise.
      (A LFO through Ad. Silence cannot be assumed for a development with a suspended BL πŸ™„ ).

      Many purchasers were never given Bank Guarantees (the bank discovered the suspensed BL, so many Guarantees that were issued were only on the personal securities of the developer’s directors).

      “……but as they say it was clear that all went for the gamble….”.
      Sorry, too much of a sweeping statement (….and who is “they”, the developer? Hmm…). I can tell you that I know of at least 17 other purchasers, like myself, who did not go ‘for the gamble’, it was to be our new permanent home or for family holiday-use only.

      The developers try this line in court which has no relevance – a purchaser can buy for speculation, to live in it or stick it on his head, it is up to him.
      And weren’t the developers so happy when ‘speculators’ bought in blocks of five appartments, did they say No? NO! Why, they even opened their own re-sale office to happily make more money re-selling the spec. appartments. Now they are shouting accusingly “Speculators”!
      Hypocrisy comes to mind?

      “I note the comments on Green Hills and has anyone had a look at this development recently?”.
      Yes, and it is like a ghost-town.

      Eliviria is a beautiful area, that is why we wanted a home there. But it is no good buying into a development with such a risky legal standing.
      Encourage people to buy at Green Hills?
      – sorry, been there, done that and did not even get a legal appartment, let alone a T-shirt.

      Eralia’s other development – Los Lagos – with similar lack of licences, already have had embargos put on appartments according to a (forum-recommended) lawfirm posting on another forum.
      The vultures are closing in.
      Watch this space!

      It was Eralia who took the commercial gamble – not the purchasers – and we will see the result in time.

      From your previous posts I see you got your fingers burnt with La Reserva. I hope you are not considering jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

    • #68438
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Claire wrote:

      Sunbelt, you are writing complete C**P πŸ‘Ώ

      Hi Clare
      Somehow I dont think you would say this had this corruption thingy hadnt raised its ugly head and you were sitting on a 100,000 euro profit?.
      Thank you for your reply and its clear that you wish to continue with the frustration to which you willingly became a party member in the pursuit of profit.
      I still say it will come right and forgive me if I have an opinion but i am an investor with many years experience and would not hesitate to dump this if i thought it was a lost cause.

    • #68440
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Somehow I don’t think you would say this had this corruption thingy hadn’t raised its ugly head and you were sitting on a 100,000 euro profit?.
      Thank you for your reply and its clear that you wish to continue with the frustration to which you willingly became a party member in the pursuit of profit

      Firstly, WE DID NOT BUY FOR INVESTMENT. We simply wanted a holiday home for our family until retirement. Anyone who would expect to sit on 100,000 euros profit is delusional. We did not even want a rental income. πŸ™‚
      What you do not mention is this. People/investors were led to believe that they were buying into a luxury, gated, secure development. They were told they could choose kitchen units, & tiling for kitchen/bathrooms.( The bathroom we looked at was sooo tiny. The bath was the size of a hip bath. 😯 ) None of this materialised. Originally there was supposed to be a golf course. Because the developers hadn’t the decency to notify purchasers of the no build on the upper level, many people as late as the end of 2006 had no idea of the situation at Green Hills.

      The development as it is now, resembles nothing to what it should have been. It looks like something that has slid down the hill. Only the cork trees stopped it. As Charlie wrote, it resembles a ghost town..even in the summer!

      Good luck to you. Maybe in the years to come you may have neighbours at Green Hills and even after all the bad publicity and the thousands of other apartments for sale in Marbella, you may break even.

      Oh, and if the “corruption thingy hadn’t raised it’s head” I wouldn’t even know this forum existed and we wouldn’t be having this conversation or the hundreds of other conversations that I have had with other buyers over the last 22 months!!!

    • #68443
      Anonymous
      Participant

      sunbelt1 wrote, quote

      ”The sad fact is we all wanted a slice of the action and its unfortunate that stopped in the way it has ”

      UNFORTUNATE?????????????????

      the unfortunate thing is that far to many cheats, frauds, liars, swindlers and crooks at many levels have been allowed to get away with their corrupt ways, due partly to a system that has been as good as useless at protecting innocent people from these low life scum bags. At long last the ugly monster they have created is starting to turn around and bite them on the arse, well what a suprise!

      Until justice is seen to be done very soon, and made very public by harshly punishing the wrong doers and making them pay back the many who have been screwed, then i think the CDS/CB recovery will not really start.

    • #68444
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ………just looked at the ‘Richard and Judy villa’ thread……doesn’t fill you with hope for recovery does it!

    • #68450
      Paul
      Blocked

      πŸ‘Ώ

      Your description of the scumbags in Spain is spot on goodstich44, trouble is the pathetic Spanish regulators are still allowing the same crooks to get away with things after all these years. How anyone could trust the Spanish property market all the time these crooks are still allowed to operate, is a complete mystery, so we should still do all we can to expose them.

      Hopefully some of them are getting their come-uppance, but of course some are now operating in ‘other’ emerging markets to con yet more people, and, I’m sure the larger ones like Awful’s Directors have salted their cash away off-shore, out of the reach of Spain’s slow inspectors.

    • #68452
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Do not think i am kidding myself regarding the liars and cheats involved in almost ever aspect of the Spanish Property market as bought and sold many properties.
      Clair we all bought with the hope of making a little money out of the properties we chose even while we may use it for holidays.
      Have you completed on your apartment?
      Yes at the moment it is very quite on the development,well it would while all of this is going on wouldnt it.
      Why did you choose to by in Elviria and why choose the bottom block at this development if you now say it looks like it has slipped down the hill.
      As for the apartment I have invested in ?
      It was at least 20% bigger that planned ?
      The finish is excellent ,including the kitchen and bathroom.(not given the choice of colours but it was all the same as the showroom which is always on developments to help promote sales and nothing more.
      The pools and gardens are fantastic,
      The views are what we wanted
      The apartment was handed over in a spotlessly clean condition
      The bottom phase of this development looks just like the plan(unlike Los Lagos)
      They have attended all minor faults without delay.
      Tell me ,how many other developments in Elvira have L.F.Os in the past 5 to 10 years.
      How many contracts were signed as advised by these same solicitors who are now saying dont sign
      Well they would know wouldnt they?
      Those that have paid a deposit on Green Hills will have to facts.
      1 You will have to complete or loose you the deposit
      2 You have not made a penny on your investment and will not unless you stop winging and start to look at the situation that the ride has stopped.
      Investment now is 3 to 5 years ahead.
      3 Think yourself one of the luckier ones than those who bought on La Reserva
      4In the end all of this mentioning if it was build on this type of land or another type of land will almost be impossible to prove as records either did not exist or they will have gone walkies so unless corruption can be proved L.F.Os will follow albeit the developers will be made to pay for their past and I dont think anyone will loose any sleep over that.
      5 I dont like it anymore than anyone else but I like many chose the off plan route in the hope of making an investment choice
      6 Yes I will take my holidays there and Ihave bookings for the summer and I bought on development as this was the quieter side of Elvira so I will have the pools to myself if I have no neighbours
      8 in the end i will get my investment back as its Location.Location Location.
      9 The one thing we need is to get this corruption thing out of the way then the hundreds of apartments you refer to will sell ,WHY because this is possibly the best part on The Costa del Sol thats why you bought there wasnt it?

    • #68458
      Anonymous
      Participant

      sunbelt- You have really painted an excellent picture of these apartments and the location !!! How do I buy one ? They sound too good to be true.

      Unfortunately I DID !!!!

      I am one of those buyers who want my deposit back from this illegal development. Despite what you say I dont want to own a property there.

      I too have other property on the CDS but they are legal.

      You also have not read Claire’s postings, as if you had you would know she bought in the upper blocks that were never built.

    • #68460
      Anonymous
      Participant

      And we’ve got our money back +interest + legal fees after a long legal fight, as have many others! There are many pending Court cases from disgruntled purchasers of the lower blocks. Sunbelt, you are talking such rubbish that I cannot be bothered to answer you . You have clearly done no research on the situation at Green Hills. Live in blissful ignorance. πŸ™„

    • #68461
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sunbelt1 wrote:

      You will have to complete or lose your deposit

      May I just clarify something here.
      You are writing on a forum that is read by many purchasers and your statement above is dangerously misleading and legally incorrect.
      By law, you are not legally obliged to complete without a Licence of First Occupation in place.
      To quote one of the contributing lawyers on this forum, Drakan, it is ‘insane to do so’.
      And you are certainly not legally obliged to complete when the building licence is currently suspended.

      Suggest you click on: http://www.devwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=675 – could open your eyes a bit. Albeit another development, it is what can happen when you complete without an LFO.

      With regards to “In the end all of this mentioning if it was build on this type of land or another type of land will almost be impossible to prove as records either did not exist or they will have gone walkies….”
      Er, did not realise the Junta de Andalucia’s PGOU plan had gone walkies?? 😯

      I assure you these records are very safe, copies of which can be seen at The Town Hall. You will find the majority of Elvria is designated as forestry, green zone and areas for ‘social use’ by the locals such as parks, libraries etc.

      Are you sure you are “an invester with many years experience”?

    • #68462
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Yes – sounds like an agent or developer as to be so pro this development under its current problem is rather strange.

      The property market in Spain whilst a mid to long term sound investment is very bad at the moment. All the bad press has med it very sensitive and with the interest rate rises in the UK and spain a lot more owners are going to be under serious pressure now.

    • #68463
      Anonymous
      Participant

      As for the apartment I have invested in ?
      It was at least 20% bigger that planned ?

      That means some poor soul has an apartment 20% smaller than they thought! 20% larger? Who are you kidding? πŸ˜†

    • #68465
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Claire wrote:

      And we’ve got our money back +interest + legal fees after a long legal fight, as have many others! There are many pending Court cases from disgruntled purchasers of the lower blocks. Sunbelt, you are talking such rubbish that I cannot be bothered to answer you . You have clearly done no research on the situation at Green Hills. Live in blissful ignorance. πŸ™„

      Hi Claire
      I see that you are a fiery one and you have your money back now as its clear that was correct.(Developers lost a fortune I hear)
      J.B,think we will be sharing the pool and having a glass or two of wine and wonder why you bought there in the first place.
      Give it time and sell it?
      Claire the extra space relates to a rear courtyard and an extended terrace.
      Roberta as well we know 3 to 5 years is a long time and this roblem will have to be sorted
      Charlie.I have not said that you have to sign,what I am saying is Ibelieve you will have to in the end as I cant imagine the Spanish Government allowing anything else
      I beleive one chap has already lost one case in Los Lagos.
      Lets all be honest if we had the option of being able to look into the future then none would have bought but we have and in no way am i looking in ignorant bliss its just reality and how best to deal with it.
      Here we have everyone knows someone who knows someone down the pub who thinks they know the Spanish Legal system when in fact I dont most solicitors inSpain dont know the system as they have spent years avoiding it
      Agents are greedy pigs
      Solicitors are in the main corrupt
      People in the property market in Spain in the main would know the truth if it hit them in the face and even then their again with the fact commission they would ignore anyway
      The real roughs that caused most of this mess are now in countries like Bulgaria and that will be the centre of the same corruption as Spain has suffered
      Yes it going to be a bit of a rough ride but its all part of the game.

    • #68466
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Claire/Charlie

      i think the monster might be having a nibble at its creator again!

    • #68467
      Anonymous
      Participant

      [

      Charlie.I have not said that you have to sign,what I am saying is Ibelieve you will have to in the end as I cant imagine the Spanish Government allowing anything else

      Charlie also recovered all monies back the same as myself!

      I beleive one chap has already lost one case in Los Lagos.

      He lives to fight another day! πŸ˜‰

      Yes it going to be a bit of a rough ride but its all part of the game.

      No one that I know of thinks it’s a game.

      Goodstitch…we think alike! πŸ˜‰

    • #68468
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Can anyone advise please.
      How many developments have L.F.Os in Elviria,either completed or being built
      Santa Maria Village
      Los Lagos
      Los Jardines
      Laz Terrazas
      Los Patios
      Las Villas
      El Rincorn
      La Reserva dr Marbella
      Bannana Beach Resort

      I woul be grateful for any observations as to any developments that have
      L.F.Os which have been completed in the last 5 to 10 years in this area.

    • #68469
      Inez
      Participant

      I think the answer is none of them so far have LFOs

    • #68470
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Inez wrote:

      I think the answer is none of them so far have LFOs

      Inez

      Thanks for that and confirms what i have been informed.
      Does any development in Elviria have an L.F.O to anyones knowledge in the past 8 years.
      I any event there are thousands of people that have mortgages/are occupied and have been subject to resales?
      There must be thousands therefore that be informed to sign without an L.F.O ?over many years.
      Only now are the solicitors saying not to sign ?why is that?

    • #68471
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Fairplay..Sunbelt..whatever you want to call yourself…give it a rest. It is a lost cause that you are persuing. Eralia are in breach of contract. Green Hills is way overdue due to the fact there is no LFO. Eight years ago things were very different. No one knew about the corruption then. They do now. We are all better informed. Your persistence blows your case apart as” just an investor!!!” Nice try though.

      Only an idiot would complete where there is no LFO.

    • #68472
      Inez
      Participant

      A lot of the difficulty is that the spanish in the main have been happy to buy property without an lfo. Banks also were happy to lend in this instance as always it woud come along at some stage.
      However the situation is totally different now. Banks now ask for LFOs and valuers ensure these are in place as well now. We have had several sales falling through recently due to lack of licence and in fact its one of the questions we ask now alongside the nota simple before we even take a property on our site.

      Numerous properties are actually unsalable axcept to cash buyers – usually spanish and usually at 30 to 50% of bank valuation.

      Until the political situation is resolved, this will drag out and has damaged the property market immensely.

      Luckily due to the media and these forums buyers are far more informed and we would not recommend people to buy these proeprties without knowing the full risks involved.

    • #68474
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Well said Inez.

    • #68476
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sunbelt1 wrote:

      Only now are the solicitors saying not to sign ?why is that?

      The very fact you are asking this question makes me feel you are not fully informed about anything that has been happening for the last couple of years. Does ‘Operation Malaya’ mean anything to you?

      As Inez absolutely sums it up in a nutshell – “the situation is totally different now” for all the reasons she gave, and more.
      I suggest you forget what happened years ago, focus on what is going on now. I fear you are somewhat in denial re. the current situation.

      You have said two things that worry me:

      “….but as they say it was clear they all went for the gamble”
      and
      “You will have to complete or lose your deposit”

      Both these comments are definitely the developers. Heard them before time and time again.
      Suggest you listen less to them and to more of the good honest advice here.
      I would hazard a guess and say you have recently been out to Spain and have been totally wrapped round their little finger.
      Who was it? Mr. F, L or D? They are all very convincing charmers when it comes to “everything is fine, don’t worry….”

      Hasn’t your experience with La Reserva made you just a teeny weeny bit cautious? The only difference is Aifos didn’t attend the charm school….

    • #68478
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ”Only now are the solicitors saying not to sign ?why is that? ”

      umm i wonder?

      ….this thread is starting to sound like a sketch from a Monty Python film!

    • #68486
      katy
      Blocked

      I often walk past some of these developments when walking the dogs and they are a ghost town. Only a few of the windows have any sign of blinds/curtains and I never see anyone, they don’t look any different from many other developments that were a lot less money, scarcely any green areas etc.

      Yesterday REM local radio interviewed the President of Marbella council. He reiterated that most of the properties will be legalised and that a building not having an LFO was no reason not to buy/sell 😯 This was in response to an e-mail from someone living in Banana Beach who said they are in their eighties and need to go into sheltered housing and are unable to sell. The President said they can sell and property transactions are carried out all the time without an LFO πŸ™„

    • #68489
      Anonymous
      Participant

      No problem buying/selling without LFO ❓

      There appears to be many inconsistencies regarding utility connections and LFO.

      According to some they have managed to get their connections on application of licence, for others they are waiting years.

      Would anyone seriously want to buy a property without these connections. ❓

    • #68491
      katy
      Blocked

      It was a disappointing interview, the president was vague and waffly, said everything would be sorted and anyone who had bought in good faith would be fully compensated πŸ™„ He is also a Lawyer though. πŸ™‚

    • #68493
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I find it unbelievable that the president of Marbella Council is saying it is OK to buy without LFO 😯 The reason there is such chaos for buyers/developers alike is that the Town Hall are witholding these licences because they say many buildings are illegal.
      How do the people who are in “nomansland”who are trying to retrieve their money back ,as they cannot LEGALLY occupy their apartments, hope to win their case with this kind of message being given out? Apart from anything, it is supposed to be against Spanish Law. It speaks volumes as to why it is all such a mess in the CDS.
      Perhaps this President could put his money where his mouth is, if he is so confident everything will be made legal in the end. When will the end be exactly?

    • #68498
      Anonymous
      Participant

      well what can you say???, some of the people who are in a position to start putting things right are giving the worst possible advice!. As you say Claire, it speaks volumes about the uphill struggle we face when trying to get any kind of justice, and shows that even now after all the corruption and scandal, the system still stinks.

      I think the only chance, is to do what you have done, find a good lawyer, take it to court and hopefully find a good judge to make the right judgement. I feel the laws are there, but unless they are forced on people then they just wont be applied?? and then who can be sure they will get the right decision. Is it any wonder the sharks thrive. Makes me feel i’m banging my head against a wall of lies.

    • #68503
      Inez
      Participant

      Well I can give an accurate case of the consequences in Marbella. I bought in October a house in Condes de Iza, Neuva Andalucia. The development was completed originally in 2001. All building licenses in place etc. All utilities connected, they were changed over to my name, IBI is charged and paid etc etc etc. I bought on a mortgage with no problems.

      In mid november we had for sale a house int he same development. A spanish couple were very keen, the offer was accepted and the mortgage process started. Four banks including the one I am with have refused the application as there is no LFO. I have since found out the developmnet was built on green belt land and should have been there. It is part of the campo.

      When challenged the members of our community said it was legal and there was no peoblem.

      Monday night at the community meeting I asked the community lawyer who admitted there is no license, the situation is in fact political and if the socialists get in in the may elections the situation will be resolved quickly – they are using the issue to force people to vote for them! All they need to do is take an aerial picture compare this with the 1986 PGOU and deiced which developments should be legalized and which to dispute.

      We have pulled the other house and other properties without LFOs from our books and whilst this situation is continuing we are increasingly finding our back up against the wall with this situation as we cannot auction property without all documentation in place.

      The confidence in this market has totally gone at this satge – developers are selling out or closing down and the spanish agencies are suffering as well. The recent interest rate rises will discourage buyers and in conjunction with the english interest rate rises and the Irish property market having taken a downturn, we estimate it will be a good 3 to 4 years before the dust settles here.

      This year will be very bad. Sorry if it seems doom and gloom but it is the reality.

    • #68507
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @Inez wrote:

      Sorry if it seems doom and gloom but it is the reality.

      Don’t apologise Inez – just so refreshing to have an open and honest assessment from someone in the property world.

    • #68508
      Inez
      Participant

      Thanks Charlie – its just people usually accuse us of talking the market down in view of the business I am in but we predicted this 4 years ago – although certainly I didnt see the Marbella situation!

      I talk to mortgage brokers and advertising agents all saying the same.

      We are going to be consolidating and making changes for the future.

    • #68528
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Thank you again inez fot your advice and its clear you have the info at hand
      Claire With respect you appear very aggressive towards anyone that does not agree with you.
      You have your money so why are you getting so excited.
      For the records
      I have bought and sold 5 properties in Spain around Dequesa and made e few quid
      I then paid 30% on La Reserva (bad move)and resold it almost imediatley at break even after costs.
      I then paid a depsit on GreenHils which I purchased at a vastly reduced price due to commissions due for selling propertiies in Spain.(sold around 20 and paid for about 10 as you guessed it i trusted the Spainsh Estate agent firms who are now probably selling in some other country somewhere
      I am very aware of the L.F.O situation and the total mess that this has caused in Marbella.
      At the moment this investment appears to be not going to well?
      However rightly or wrongly I personally like Elviira and am quite prepared to ride the storm.
      With regards to my comments regarding its all a game?
      Sometimes games are not fun but you have to decide if you want to play and if you choose a game where the stakes are higher with the rewards possibly more as with off plan then you have to deal with it if it goes wrong

      If I like the aprtment then this is my opinion and my gamble which am willing to take the chance that this sorry mess will be sorted
      As I have said several times its 3 to 5 years and I feel that in the area of Elvira you have an area which is better than many on the Costa Del Sol.
      I may be wrong but there again so was everyone else that got involved in the first place and put their trust in the Spanish prperty system.
      Its also my opinion as to if the system will allow the return of depsits due to no L.F.Os
      I am not aware of any and refer again to the guy at Los Lagos who tried.
      The problem really will start IF rulings do go in favour of the buyer then this will really hot things up (still cant see this happening somehow but again I may be wrong)
      Thanks again Inez and as I have been saying all along the merrygo round has stopped at least for a while

    • #68529
      katy
      Blocked

      Must have been fortunate or sold chaep if you managed to sell at La Reserva as I know that some have been on sale for 2 years or more!

    • #68532
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Sunbelt,
      Yes I may come across as being aggressive. As far as Green Hills is concerned, then maybe I am…with just cause. We bought in good faith there as a holiday home, not an investment. We parted, in good faith with approx Β£100,000. When we were informed 15 months after paying our initial deposit that our apartment was not to be built we were shell shocked. Not because we had no apartment but because at that point in time, neither the Estate agent, the lawyer or the developer would give us any information or help in any way as to how we were going to recover our money. We didn’t know what to do. To loose that amount of money would crucify us.
      The day that I returned back to the UK after a meeting with our then lawyers in Marbella,I set about trying to get a solution. Over the next year I was able to “meet” fellow victims of the corruption that surrounds this development. Charlie & Katerina were two of those people and together we collated a massive amount of information about Eralia, MVG and their directors. Katerina made personal visits to the lawyer/ directors of Eralia and visited and spoke with the legal people at Marbella Town Hall. She is conversant in Spanish. She left no stone unturned. We were contacted by a significant number of people who had purchased at GH and Los Lagos. We now have a group of at least 40 people that we have been in regular contact with + many others. A guy phoned me this afternoon who contacted me a year ago after reading an article written in the Sunday times by Mark, the administrator of this Forum. Not a week goes by when I am not contacted by another worried buyer. We had a meeting in London where 40 or so people attended. Everyone of them thanked us for all the help we have given them and said they don’t know what they would have done without our help. It was somewhat overwhelming.

      When you posted on the forum about how we should complete or loose the deposit, it was going to be legalised etc, etc, as Charlie said it smacked of the verbal garbage that came out of the mouths of the Eralia directors. It is c**p. You are the investor that MVG are constantly harping on about. You called it a game. You obviously make a living out of it if you are paid commission. Most of the people that I know have worked hard for their money and did not want to make a fast buck from a wild card investment. I have no sympathy for hard nosed investors. Win some, loose some. To come here and tell people what a wonderful development Green Hills is, how nice it will be with no apartments behind you, how your apartment is bigger than what you paid for…stinks. Some peoples health has suffered because of this fiasco, mine included. I couldn’t give a fig whether people agree or disagree with me , but yes I am passionate about something that I have invested 22 months of my life on which, thank God, paid off. I can now sleep at night, which is more than can be said for many through no fault of their own.

    • #68533
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: La Reserva

      steventhelwell wrote:
      “Anyone interested in forming a class action against developers at La Reserva to retrieve deposit monies, please call me(steve-…..etc)”

      And sunbelt, you wrote:
      “Steve I would be delighted at anytime to join a class action against this lot since they have a deposit of mine on an apartment thats supposed to have a 22 SQm garden thats not there and the dreadful attitude of this company,they deserve what they get”.

      Now, either you are intentionally telling big ‘porky pies’ about getting your money back from la Reserva…..
      or that was the quickest class action in history. πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜†

      At a guess, I would go for the “porky pies”.
      You can fool some of the people some of the time, but………….

    • #68534
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sunbelt1 wrote:

      I then paid 30% on La Reserva (bad move)and resold it almost immediately at break even after costs.

      I gather we can take that with the proverbial ‘pinch of salt’ then?

    • #68536
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Nice one Charlie! πŸ˜† Sunbelt appears to be as adept at telling “porky pies” as the directors of Eralia!

    • #68540
      Anonymous
      Participant

      …..a porky pier with a bad memory eh, not a good combination!

    • #68544
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I just wanted to highlight the ‘inconsistency’ of sunbelt’s contributions because I find it highly irresponsible for someone to come on this forum extolling the virtues of buying into a development that has a very precarious legal standing at present.

      Also to make misleading and legally-incorrect statements like
      “You must complete or lose your deposit”.

      For someone not so savvy with what is going on and reading his posts, they may make a misguided decision.

      There are too many of us who have been ‘led up the gardent path’ already.

    • #68546
      Anonymous
      Participant

      …….good for you Charlie, no one can blame you for telling it like it is. If everyone did that, there would be alot less bulls**t for a new viewer to sift through.

    • #68563
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Charlie
      With regards to La Reseva
      Again I bought this apartment at 12% under the asking price( agent you see) and indeed there was a problem with the garden which I thought I would have to resort to some sort of action (hate Pennorya and everthing they stand for)
      However as I was able to sell again with no commission I was able to break even.(to a Spanish person)
      Kathy people will be lucky to sell at La Reseva,period.
      Claire I have worked for every single penny I have,sometimes I take a chance and sometimes I win and sometimes I loose but I chose not winge if I loose.
      My quote that in MY opinion of those that have paid a deposit will have to complete .
      Now though I respect your groups motives for not wanting to complete as the prices havent done to well I feel you will have a reality check
      Yes I am very happy with my apartment,including gaining some extra measurements lost on La Reserva
      I have not heard to many complaints myself on all of the other developments carries out by Eralia ( no more than a typical british builder any way.)
      I didnt contribute to the forum just to agree with your views as I have my own.
      While visiting Green Hills in June we had the pleasure of meeting many that were also very happy and in fact delighted with their apartment,however (Los Lagos was not so good.)
      I envy your good intentions in having a little tittle ,tattle between yourselves all agreeing with one another.
      In my opinion those that paid a deposit and will have to complete and will possilbly have to wait a little longer to see a return as will most residence in Elvira due to the damage you are compounding.
      Get real ,!
      Eralia and possibly Sifasa invested massive amounts of money in the road struture probably from deposits paid.
      They paid commissions on phase 1 and 2 only for 1 to be refused at a later date.
      Now they paid out all of this money and it all went wrong and have you considered that they they may not have all of the funds at hand to refund every one at once.
      They to are involved in the dreaded Spanish system and too right they will duck and dive to survive.
      Yes I know I wil get some slagging back BUT ?
      Having been involved with all areas of the Costa del Sol (including the Disney land bait)Benalmadana ect my wife and I are very happy with what we have and the service offered be Eralia and even sent them a thank you letter.
      If any one out there that wishes me to send photos of our apartment and the pools and gardens.please let me know and let them make their own opinion and not that of a sorry minority in the Elvira sad society.

    • #68564
      Anonymous
      Participant

      πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜†

    • #68566
      Anonymous
      Participant

      My apologies then sunbelt.

      When you wrote a couple of weeks ago “they have a deposit of mine on an apartment…” –
      I thought you meant….well, that they had a deposit of yours on an apartment.

      But in actual fact what you meant was…. you’ve sold it on to a Spanish bloke. 😯

      Think I must be going daft in m’ old age……..or not ❗

    • #68567
      Anonymous
      Participant

      No Problem Charlie
      Anything I can do against that Pennaroya scum I will be happy to help,including some photos of that dreadful death trap swimming pool
      ( how many pools were promised)
      The best thing they can do with this development is to order a total demolition and refund to all as an example to the world.
      Those solicitors that they are clicky with in Puerto Banus too that I had a run in with which ended with a showdown at their offices with them threatening the police and I had to get my wife and daughter out when they threatened to through us out as I wouldnt budge as they had my apartments documents which clearly did show a garden that wasnt there.
      Lets say my family went out and I stayed and leave it to you what happened then.
      Its sad that so many people have been let down on the Costa but all must remember that the majority are very happy indeed and they to may be very agrieved at the bad press effecting some.
      I have many,many friends who live on The COSTA DEL SOL and wouldnt live anywhere else in the world and I fully intend to move out their in 5 to 10 years.
      No not sales talk or the talk of a developer as I above most know most will sell at personal cost to the unwary to line their own slimy pockets thats why i got out very quickly when i wouldnt stoop so low
      Thankfully those I did sell to have done very well as am the sort that needs to sleep at nighs

    • #68569
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sunbelt1 wrote:

      No Problem Charlie

      πŸ˜•

    • #68570
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Charlie,we should be thankful that we will not be sharing a pool with a shark. πŸ˜‰

    • #68573
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Look, hand on heart, sunbelt – I really and truly hope that nothing goes wrong with your investment in Green Hills.
      I am the last person to wish anyone ill-fortune and hope all your plans and dreams for your move to Spain go well.

      I just feel what you are doing is very high-risk at the moment with it’s lack of legal status and such uncertain future – you are certainly a ‘braver man’ than I am.
      Personally I am relieved to be out of the development now and feel, looking at 5 year long-term property investments, there are many other better places to have your money. For example, land where I am now has nearly doubled in just over two years – and that is without any maintenance charges!

      However, I wish you a lot of that ‘Devon Pixie’ Good Luck (recognized your telephone code – I used to live there! πŸ˜‰ ).

    • #68577
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Charley
      With the price I paid andthe fact that I personally like it I am fine with it.
      Lets be honest we all giving opinions of whats going to happen and thats all they are
      I invest on the stock market and iff these so called investment experts were always right then i would be very wealthy.
      Braver or more stupid none of us really knows
      Yeh ?lets not say that if I had the money now I would not invest elsewhere as this is the last thing I am saying.
      What I am having to do on this one is take a longer view as if i dont I will have to join the band chasing a fruitless course IN MY OPINION
      Every one is entitled to an opinion and I would be the first to be chuffed to bits to be prove wrong
      Yes I am from Devon.
      I can read I can right I can drive my tractor write.
      Glad the land has gone O.K and your doing the same thing as me in playing the game either a good one or a bad one.

      Claire
      With respect.
      I really feel that this Eralia thing is really got hold of you and suggest you really look a little further than your one sided views and get yourself a life before this totally takes you over
      Life is to short and as you say this has already made you ill and its a battle that your army of 40 against the Spanish system and 90% of satisfied and happy people on the Costa del Sol.
      Who do you think will win.

    • #68726
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi, this is interesting reading – I’m not sure if I am one of the lucky ones or not, as I completed on my apartment in August of 2006 -I have a mortgage on the apartment, I have the escatura, the Aval and the occupation License – I also have Electric, Water and telephone installed without any problems – the downside – there is hardly any one else here – in all a total of 192 apartments were finished – but only 27 have completed to date.

      I have been living here for over 3 years and moved into Santa Maria Green Hills in August – block 8. I urge anyone who is deciding about completion to go for it. – Although its really quiet!

      – my problem is its difficult to sell it as people are now reluctant to buy anywhere in Marbella due to all the bad press / politics.

    • #68730
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I’m gobsmacked!! 😯 How can you possibly have an LFO when none have been issued as the building licence was suspended and the development is deemed illegal at this moment in time? Are you 100% sure that the documents you have are “REAL”? πŸ˜•

      I’m worried by what you say as why would you have/need an AVAL if you have completed? Do you know what an AVAL is?

    • #68731
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @elixir wrote:

      Hi, this is interesting reading – I’m not sure if I am one of the lucky ones or not, as I completed on my apartment in August of 2006 -I have a mortgage on the apartment, I have the escatura, the Aval and the occupation License – I also have Electric, Water and telephone installed without any problems – the downside – there is hardly any one else here – in all a total of 192 apartments were finished – but only 27 have completed to date.

      I have been living here for over 3 years and moved into Santa Maria Green Hills in August – block 8. I urge anyone who is deciding about completion to go for it. – Although its really quiet!

      – my problem is its difficult to sell it as people are now reluctant to buy anywhere in Marbella due to all the bad press / politics.

      1.- You cannot have an “aval” (BG) Elixir if you have completed already. The developer ALWAYS requires this BG at completion and the purchasing party has to relinquish it before signing.

      2.- Are you sure you have a LFO ? I doubt it.

      3.- You say you have water and electricity, do you get bills from the official water and electric companies or do you have electricity and water of works (“agua y luz de obra”). It’s something very different.

      4.- You say you have a mortgage on the property, is this mortgage from the developers bank, did you take over the developer’s mortgage or did you get your own ?

    • #68737
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi – sorry – yes you are correct the BG was deemed useless at time of completion. Ok the LFO – you are correct, it’s a Silent one – not a true one – when I investigated into this – other lawyers seemed only to happy with this – and also the Notria.

      The electric etc. are the really thing – not the builders supply or works.

      The mortgage is with Banco De Andalucia – which to be franc have the bigger risk in the purchase! And seemed happy with the paperwork.

      My history with this purchase goes as follows… I had a letter from my existing lawyer saying I could either purchase the property or on their recommendation go to court – which they seemed only to happy to want 6000 EUR for. – I spoke to 2 other lawyers to get 2 other opinions on this and the outcome was there was no reason not to continue and buy the property. – They informed me the developer had purchased the land from the Electric company and it was not sold for any other purpose other than to build on.

      My overall conclusion was to continue and purchase. – so far – there has been no problems.

    • #68738
      Anonymous
      Participant

      OH DEAR!!! πŸ™ πŸ™ πŸ™
      Of course Banco De Andalucia would give you a mortgage!!! At least they will get their money from you! They are paying out by the bucket load to all the people calling in their BG’s, including my husband & I! What you are saying is that you were (shockingly) advised to complete on an illegall building. I sooo hope you don’t live to regret it!
      Please pm me as I’d love to know who your lawyer is. (6000euros may have been well spent! )and which other 2 lawyers advised you. They should be reported!! 😈

    • #68740
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Elixer
      Welcome to the forum.
      Thats 2 of us that very much like Green Hills and would recommened buying to anyone.
      I have block 10 and luv it so will have to meet up for a glass or two of wine (your pool or mine) as I am out in the next couple of weeks to get furniture.
      The forum can be very helpful but there are some that breed the doom and gloom.
      Oh NO What have you done you silly person as you dont have an L.F.O and start to worry everyone where in fact nor do thousands of others in Marbella.
      Just a recent politcal thingy that will get sorted and the corruption situation really did need bringing to a head and this area will hopefully be the first to get settled.
      No question that this is a great part of the costa and when the corruption issue raises its ugly head somewhere else this hopefully be the place be again which why so many on this forum paid a deposit on a property here in the first place.

    • #68741
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Sunbet1, good to hear from a fellow neighbor!!

      The more Spanish I become, the more I hear about the politics, and ok, Sr. Gill has a lot to answer for but then so do the current Marbella Administration!

      I agree, hopefully it won’t be to long before this Costa settles down to what it should be – a great place to live.

      Santa Maria seems to be one of the low risk urbanizations when it comes to the whole Malaya / Marbella issue.

      I will keep the Sangria on Ice.

    • #68742
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Only another 165 people to convince then and you’ll be laughing. πŸ˜†

    • #68755
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Elixir, although the Silence Rule does actually work under normal circumstances it can never turn something illegal (i.e. Building License revoked) into legal.

      If you lawyers were all too happy to complete using this SR then those lawyers had vested interests other than the protection of your legal rights in a development such as the one you mention.

    • #68762
      Anonymous
      Participant

      …….it’s bad enough being conned, having no BG, no LFO etc, but then to turn around and say ” it’s o.k no one else has LFO’s, we are all in the same boat so we must be o.k”

      Talk about playing in to the hands of the crooks, if they read this, i would think they will find it quite hilarious.

      I understand people trying to make the best of an ugly situation, but burying your head in the sand really isn’t doing those of us in a current fight for justice, any favours at all.

    • #68764
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Goodstich…it is 2 v165!!! Only 27 apartments sold out of 192! Those figures speak for themselves πŸ˜† They hardly have clout behind them do they? Mind you, I think they deserve a bottle of Cava from Eralia for their efforts. πŸ˜‰

      There’s no denying it is a lovely location, that’s why we all bought into it. If only it was legal from the start and the developers actually built what they agreed to!

    • #68787
      Anonymous
      Participant

      THINK there is an article in D. Sur concerning the banks and Green Hills.

      No time to check translation

      http://www.diariosur.es/prensa/20070202/marbel … 70202.html

    • #68789
      Anonymous
      Participant

      It’s saying that Banco Popular have been ordered by the Court in Madrid to pay out on a purchasers Bank guarantee plus costs. Maybe it could be Charlie or me they are referring to!!!! πŸ˜‰

    • #68792
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Claire – no, it is Hayley’s case – won this week.

      Note the article re-confirms (as if we need it) that the land used for Green Hills was designated in the PGOU for townhouses, a public road (!), and public park and gardens.
      The local residents were promised these facilities years ago.

      Any wonder the Junta are not happy with the 192 apartments sitting there.

      And Los Lagos? Should have only been detached villas – ouch!

    • #68794
      Anonymous
      Participant

      That’s excellent news! I didn’t realise that their case was so recent!! Well done our lawyer…again!!!! πŸ˜€
      Yes I saw they reiterated what the land should have been used for!

    • #68797
      Anonymous
      Participant

      And definitely no LFO

      And…..well done Mr. C

    • #68815
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Dorothy sent me a link and I just have to share(part of) it! πŸ™„

      As you would expect, La Hacienda comes from the stable of one of the Costa del SolΒ΄s most prestigious developers, the Eralia Group, established in 1997 and renowned for its highly-prized luxury golf developments including the award-winning Las Terrazas de Santa Maria Golf and Los Lagos de Santa Maria Golf.

      This is the best part!
      Eralia not only offer an exceptional quality of construction and finishing touches, but also an impeccable track record of guarantees and services, all part and parcel of this very reputable group.

      😯

    • #68818
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ERROR

    • #68819
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi

      Who really thinks these developments will get demolished then?

      Regards

      Paul

    • #68820
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Not me thats for sure.

    • #68821
      Anonymous
      Participant

      ERROR

    • #68822
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Its me again
      At least we appear to agree Green Hills is a lovely location,
      We are not two,we are many that are happy with what we have and are getting rather pieved off telling us how wrong and stupid we are and by now 90% of the Eralia customers and Elivira itself are fed up with this vendetta.
      The quality of the build and the finished gardens are excellent for the money.
      So the problem is the L.F.O which is the same problem as almost all of Elvira which they are hardly going to knock down are they?
      A quick bung here and there and the goverment will say they have now stamped on corruption.
      This is life,wake up do you really think that this so called injustice you are fighting for is just in Elviria or Eralia when it every where even in the U.K.
      This will be sorted soon and up goes the prices so Elixar amd myself and our growing clan can count the profit sipping Sangria by the lovely pools.
      So we have a very tasteful developments of apartments instead out town houses so whats the big deal,you wanted a apartment didnt you and L.F.O will soon be here so whats the problem.
      Lets say on Monday all L.F.Os were issued how many would complete,I would wager many would still be trying to get out of completing as the values havnt gone up like they had hoped
      Now you have a situation in Elviria where you have two sections of legal advice as Elixar and myself found out.
      You now have say 50% lawyers that up until this corruption thing raised its head that were very happy for years to say its O.K.to sign and now they change their tune and very happy to have a different revenue stream
      acting as part of the righteuos campaigh protecting the innocent.
      Then lets say you have the other 50% that also went by the system for many years regarding L.F.Os and are clued up enough to realise that this whole political mess WILL have to be sorted and are not prepared to take clients money on a wasted cause and refer you to the gentleman who lost his case at Los Lagos
      With a development or part of a development thats not been built then of course that a different situation.
      Your campaign against this one developer is totally one sided and why dont you turn your attentions to some of the others that are much worse.

    • #68823
      katy
      Blocked

      What is this deja vous

    • #68824
      Anonymous
      Participant

      What is this deja vous

      Probably just angry at being patronised

    • #68828
      Anonymous
      Participant

      wow………a pink pig just flew straight over my house, heading for CDS i think? keep an eye out for it wont you!

    • #68832
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @p800aul wrote:

      Hi

      Who really thinks these developments will get demolished then?

      Regards

      Paul

      just so no one misses it!

    • #68833
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Claire wasn’t being patronising, Paul.
      I’ll explain.
      In the Green Hills brochure, articles in glossy magazines, at Eralia’s offices, in the spiel from the sales people etc. – they all made a big thing on how this was an Eralia development with all the raz-ma-taz that goes with buying from such a big successful company.
      At a meeting recently in London of about 35 of us from GH, we all without exception said how we believed that we were buying an Eralia development.

      However, as soon as problems started – and in Claire and my case, nothing was built – of course we got on the ‘phone/e-mail and guess what?
      Suddenly the development was absolutely nothing to do with them – they said they were only the ‘promoter’ (despite them saying they were the developer in all the publicity) and that they couldn’t help us. Our contracts were with a little company they had formed with just 36,000 euros declared share capital.
      The fact that both companies have the same Directors is just a tiny detail. 😯
      The same with this development; La Hacienda de Cifuentes – it was marketed as an Eralia development – then, all change – even on devwatch.com they had the developer as Eralia, then after some time – the name got removed. Same old game.
      That is why Claire is smiling at these words found on a website.

    • #68834
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Tell me sunbelt, How do you know so much about”the gentleman who lost his case at Los Lagos”?. You keep bringing it up. What has that got to do with green hills anyway?

      For an ordinary UK punter, your diatribe appears to come from “THE SCHOOL OF ERALIA” We’ve heard it all before! Why should you worry about the “vendetta” that you have chosen to invent. There is no vendetta. People just want their hard earned money back because the development is illegal, and therefore not completed on time,18 months late in fact, to date. It’s called justice..NOT a vendetta. The judges obviously agree as otherwise so many people would not have had their money & costs awarded to them.

      You’ve got your shangri la apartment…go and enjoy it with your 26 new best friends. I think we’ve all got the message that green hills is fandabidozee! If you are getting peeved at seeing all this written..don’t read it. You came here of your own volition.

    • #68835
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Paul – I really haven’t got a clue what will happen. I can only say that I hope, for the sake of everyone who has completed, that demolition won’t happen.
      But I also think that purchasers who want out of these currently-illegal developments and just want their money back, because they can’t stand the uncertainty, and want to move on in their lives, buy somewhere else for peace of mind, they should have their monies returned.

      Not everyone is ‘in it for the speculation’ and gamble, or to make money – they just want a home in the sun without worry and stress.

      That is my ‘humble’ opinion!

    • #68836
      Anonymous
      Participant

      For what it is worth, I would be very surprised if these developments were demolished.

    • #68838
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi

      Well i think these owners have been flamed and patronised all the way through this thread examples from Claire post (sorry Clarie just to use your last post no offence meant) “your diatribe appears to come from “THE SCHOOL OF ERALIA”” or “You’ve got your shangri la apartment…go and enjoy it with your 26 new best friends. ” There are many other examples, but to be honest that’s not the point i was just passing comment for his angry post.

      This board should be for good news as well as bad news, positive as well as negative, help and not rude criticism.

      I am happy for the guys at Green Hills, I do not think it stands any chance of being demolished and i have no doubt Eralia are being super nice to them, they want them to be happy and tell the world about it. As I’ve said before I’ve dealt with Eralia (still do) and the were better than David Wilson Homes here in the UK. I am also sorry for those that can not move on because of problems with any of the developments. I was always told (and i did understand previously) that buying off plan was/is a gamble. While i will stand corrected i don’t think anyone has lost a deposit yet have they? Clearly many have had a great deal of pain from the experience but hey you still are all alive, no one died here.

      Regards

      Paul

    • #68839
      Anonymous
      Participant

      The demolitions in Marbella are highly unlikely to happen at any time as I’ve posted many times before IMHO.

      Perhaps they’ll demolish an illegal hotel or two or some uninhabited development but it’ll be really something for the media just to say they are fighting corruption. The only buildings which I’m not so sure and wouldn’t put my hand in the fire is the Banana Beach complex as it is the symbol of Marbella’s corruption. But I doubt they’ll demolish it. As I’ve posted already there’s a lot of politics involved in all this.

      It goes against everyone’s best interests in Marbella to demolish dwellings with owners who bought through Notary Public even if there was no LFO. The developers will compensate the Town Hall with land, money and assets for the damage done and that will be the end of the story.

      Another different story are rustic land illegaly built, in which case demolitions might be possible.

      Marbella will have to wait for a new approved P.G.O.U. to sort out the mess the ex-majors deliberately devised. It’ll take a few years but everything will be sorted out and we will see a new economic cycle with a new building frenzy five or eight years from now. Marbella, Spain as a whole in the long run is always a very good place to invest in. 99% of foreigners who buy in Spain are happy.

    • #68840
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @p800aul wrote:

      Clearly many have had a great deal of pain from the experience but hey you still are all alive, no one died here.

      Don’t underestimate what stress does, Paul. And to be honest I find your above comment rather flippant.

      One elderly gentleman I know, Jimmy aged 89yrs, a Green Hills purchaser, was hospitalised three times last year because of the stress (heart). He told me how he hasn’t known what a good night’s sleep is since he’s known about the illegality of the situation.
      He and his wife sit in the kitchen, often until 4 in the morning, nursing endless mugs of cocoa – just too heartbroken to contemplate sleep.

      Another lady, in a similar situation but with an Aifos project, was so distraught that she commited suicide last year.

      It is often written by people here “look, I understand and feel sorry for the stress you’re going through, but…..”
      But do you know what? if you haven’t been there, you have no idea.
      The anger and frustration that someone has virtually cheated you out of your money – in many cases your lifesavings as with Jimmy, eats away at you to the point it occupies almost every waking hour. It does eventually make you ill….and that is a ‘place’ where both Claire and I have been.

      That is why the likes of goodstich, Claire, the other Paul, myself etc. are hell bent in trying to warn others all the time on this forum. And believe me, a lot of work goes on behind the scenes in the form of PM’s, trying to help people climb out of the whole mess.
      If you could read some of the stories of desperation I’ve received in my Inbox, you would cry.

    • #68841
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Charlie. Please keep up the good work in warning people. You are obviously a strong person.

      What is worse is that one feels that I had done everything a mature, prudent , person would have done i.e.using a lawyer, raising concerns with the lawyer etc, make it worse.

      I hope that all is sorted out soon and if you keep your health and spirit you all will soon reap the benefits.

      I KNOW ITS EASY TO SAY, but you all ways have to look at the bright side of life.

    • #68842
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Claire
      You join a forum to put your points of view and not just agree with everyone.
      You clearly have a vendetta against Eralia and in particular Green Hills and I think its reasonable to suggest many rulings that are go in favour of Los Lagos will set presidence in the area in general
      What I am saying is Eralia are part of the Spainish system where they are promoters of a development and nothing more
      I consider they in general are better than most and I would buy from them again
      Cant you see that just maybe you are sending out all of these negative messages giving purchasers extra worry and they were foolish when indeed they were not.
      These after all are the same people that have been investing in Spain for many years and I have a great deal of freinds who just luv the place to bits.
      Telling them buildings without L.F.Os are practically worthless or are going to be bulldozed when we all know this is not going to happen is irrisponsible and will do no good whatsoever
      The situation is not perfect but nowhere near the end of the world senario you are portraying.
      There are thousands of propertyies with real problems and why cant you all really put your noble efforts against the real crooks and I would support and be in favour all the way.
      If you cant see that this is a vendetta then look at the forum hit rate against other far more seriuos and take La Reserva de Marbella for instance ?
      The bottom line is a few bungs and an example made to a developer and the government will say they have cracked corruption then everything will be back to normal

    • #68843
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Other, far more serious like La Reserva?
      “La Reserva” thread, started by Suzanne, has 7612 hits – which is more than this thread.

      And most of this thread is trying to ‘put right’ mis-information (including sunbelt, I’m afraid, from yourself).

      I will tell you what is ‘irresponsible’. To post statements like “You will have to complete or lose your deposit” which is legally incorrect in the case of Green Hills, or to make out publicly on this forum that it is no big deal to complete without a Licence of First Occupation.

    • #68844
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Charlie

      Don’t underestimate what stress does, Paul. And to be honest I find your above comment rather flippant.

      Why do you think i underestimate stress, with respect you don’t know me and you only know a small fragment of my life, you have no idea what i may have gone through.

      Obviously (to some maybe) I wasn’t trying to be flippant i was trying to point out that there are greater injustices in this world than what is happening at Green Hills and Los Lagos. No one as yet, unless you guys know different, has lost their deposit and it is no plane crash. Money, life savings or otherwise is not worth dying for, in my opinion anyway (and no i could not afford to lose the amounts talked about here, i instead would want to kill the perpetrators)

      It would also appear that these developments will remain and those that do want a property there will have their wish.

      What you and the others do is laudable, i commend you for your actions, yet i sometimes wish it could be with more balance for those who still want an apartment in the sun.

      Regards

      Paul

    • #68845
      Anonymous
      Participant

      When the bulk of what we are writing is just exposing the current legal status of a development (because you can’t get a straight answer from the developer), and helping people know their rights re. BG’s and LFO’s (because a lot of people can’t get a straight answer from their lawyer), what on earth is there to also write to ‘balance things out’.

      My knowledge is about Green Hills because I was involved with it, and it still staggers me when people who have purchased there don’t have Bank Guarantees, don’t know they have a legal right to one, have never heard of an LFO, some have never seen their contract (full of illegal clauses)……… I could go on….all mainly because of developer-biased lawyers
      All that the likes of Claire and I try to do is open people’s eyes, help them to know their rights – and expose untruths that are put out about the development. Goodstich does the same for his development, and the other Paul writes to maintain his exposure of his particular EA’s disgraceful behaviour. A ‘vendetta’ ? – no. keeping up the exposure so others will be aware? – yes.

      Out of the 35 people I know from this development, none were informed by the developer of the suspended building licence. We all found out by chance via friends or forums like this one, and for most of us it was a year or more after the suspension.
      Seven months after the suspension, Eralia told someone I know when they visited the (empty) site – “Don’t worry, it will be finished on time”…..and that was for the no-build of the upper blocks that they knew would never be built.

      So yes Paul, all our exposing of facts, when and where we can, may seem rather unbalanced. But because of it, we are still getting one or two pm’s a week from purchasers of GH who say they have only just discovered the forum, that they are so relieved to have found other purchasers – and have been worrying because they can’t find out anything as to what is going on from their lawyer and the developer.

      Sunbelt and Elixir have said their bit – they believes it is a good buy and are happy. There’s your balance – any others just as happy are free to post, but it seems there is a dearth of contributors on that score.

      But as and when we get new information regarding news on this development – we will continue to post it on this Green Hills thread, biased as it may seem to some. I’m afraid it is just ‘tough’ if someone doesn’t like it. It’s what Claire and I do – (with a lot of help re. links from Detective Dorothy re. Spanish news articles πŸ˜‰ ).
      We won our money back through the courts last year, we now don’t need to spend our time to try and help others, but we do it, and that’s the way it is. And until the 35 unhappy purchasers that we know have their court cases and their monies returned BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THEY WANT – that’s the way it will stay I’m afraid.

      With due respect Paul, may I suggest, as you are not a purchaser at Green Hills, you would like to start a thread on your own development – it’s a great way to meet fellow-purchasers.

    • #68846
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Charley
      Try not take it so seriuosly
      I stand 100% regarding what I said regarding probably having to sign as the L.F.O situation will resolve itself
      Thousands have signed in Marbella and I dont seem to hear much about riots in the streets
      Charley my old mucker you are just causing so much extra stress for yourself and many others, if if you just calmed down and let reality come to the front and look at the facts that they made a decision to buy an apartment in one of the best locations in Spain and nothings really changed.
      Why worry or make people worry when you have little hope of changing anything.
      Sorry to spoil your party but someone really did need to bring some reality into play
      My remarkes are not tough in cheek its just a reality check that the situation is nothing like the end of the world you are portraying

    • #68847
      katy
      Blocked

      I agree with Drakan, hardly any will be demolished, maybe the ones at the side of the CDS hospital etc. However, I think they all should be demolished (with proper compensation to buyers). I think the developers should be made to restore some of the areas they have ruined, ripping up “protected” cork and pine forests etc.

      It has to be political…why only Marbella ❓ Has anyone from the junta ever taken a look at the rest of the coast(s) ❓ Mijas (costa)springs to mind, its horrific, they are now doing massive developments at the other side of the toll road it beggars belief that anyone would want to buy in these pseudo council estates.

    • #68848
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sunbelt1 wrote:

      Charley my old mucker you are just causing so much extra stress for yourself and many others,

      Don’t you worry about me, my old duck – I’m happy as a bunny on my Greek island, living the life of ol’ Riley.
      I’ve found my paradise – 200sq metre house on a 6000sq metre plot with mountain and sea views, all legal.

      Hope you get yours.
      P.S. Not written tongue-in-cheek either….

    • #68849
      Anonymous
      Participant

      With due respect Paul, may I suggest, as you are not a purchaser at Green Hills, you would like to start a thread on your own development – it’s a great way to meet fellow-purchasers.

      With respect I’m on the committee for our community which has a full web site and I am the web master for it which along with emails keeps our owners informed and i have their email addresses, so no need to start a thread. I also share (at the risk of offending those that give me the information) any information here.

      All that the likes of Claire and I try to do is open people’s eyes, help them to know their rights – and expose untruths that are put out about the development. Goodstich does the same for his development, and the other Paul writes to maintain his exposure of his particular EA’s disgraceful behaviour. A ‘vendetta’ ? – no. keeping up the exposure so others will be aware? – yes.

      Good for you, who am i to say you should not do it, in fact I agree, you should (not that you need my approval).

      “your diatribe appears to come from “THE SCHOOL OF ERALIA”” or “You’ve got your shangri la apartment…go and enjoy it with your 26 new best friends. “

      My point was we should not patronise and if the above is not patronising then i don’t know what is

      But as and when we get new information regarding news on this development – we will continue to post it on this Green Hills thread, biased as it may seem to some.

      And so will I, and here is the but, if guys like Sunbelt and Elixir are happy then we should be happy for them just like we are sad for those who got ripped off. I’m sorry but sometime it’s seems like sour grapes, as in “How dare you be happy with your purchase even though you don’t have a LFO and i’ve had to go through so much” We don’t have a LFO and from the experience of Los Patios (BL revoked) it would seem that lawyers who where telling people to complete five / six years ago got it wrong as well. I would wager that there are many hundreds if not thousands of developments without an LFO and my understanding is that the Town Hall can come at anytime and review this if based on Admin Silence.

      Lets help the people who want out for genuine reasons (fools or not) and lets be happy for those that are happy (fools or not). I happy that all of you guys who got their money did, I’m sad you had to go through a lot to get it.

      I would also bet you any amount of money that all of these developments will be standing in ten years time and occupied by happy people.

      This is not personal Charlie and we should keep it that way

      Regards

      Paul

    • #68851
      Anonymous
      Participant

      quote=”sunbelt1″]

      You join a forum to put your points of view and not just agree with everyone

      . I joined the forum in desperate need of help and advice.

      You clearly have a vendetta against Eralia and in particular Green Hills

      It is not a vendetta it was a long hard fight. Do you think they had the right to keep our money? What would you have done in our position? Maybe you are very wealthy and could have afforded to loose it? [/b

      What I am saying is Eralia are part of the Spainish system wherethey are promoters of a development and nothing more

      .

      That is where you are so wrong.! You obviously didn’t get the big glossy magazine given out when they were launching Green Hills and the brochures saying “another Eralia development” Nowhere did it say Eralia were just the promoters, and I can prove it..All of the people I know were told that Eralia were the developers. Ocean Estates told us that, our then lawyer told us that.

      I consider they in general are better than most and I would buy from them again

      That’s your choice and perogative.

      Cant you see that just maybe you are sending out all of these negative messages giving purchasers extra worry and they were foolish when indeed they were not.

      I do not “send out messages!” People come here, like me with the same problems we had. For the record you and elixir are the only two people who seem to be happy!!! No one else has come here to say so.

      These after all are the same people that have been investing in Spain for many years and I have a great deal of freinds who just luv the place to bits.

      So..What has that got to do with me???

      Telling them buildings without L.F.Os are practically worthless or are going to be bulldozed when we all know this is not going to happen is irrisponsible and will do no good whatsoever

      That I take exception to! I have never said that. Demonstate where I have said that?

      The situation is not perfect but nowhere near the end of the world senario you are portraying.

      Quote me!! Again that is your perception. Quote:

      There are thousands of propertyies with real problems and why cant you all really put your noble efforts against the real crooks

      Get real! They are not my problem!! There are plenty of others doing that for themselves.

      and I would support and be in favour all the way.

      Oh, so you would be happy to join a “vendetta” (your words not mine) so long as you were not buying there!

      If you cant see that this is a vendetta then look at the forum hit rate against other far more seriuos and take La Reserva de Marbella for instance ?

      Sorry , I don’t see the relevance of that statement. Do you think I have control of the number of hits ? Also this thread has been running for 5 1/2 months!!

      The bottom line is a few bungs and an example made to a developer and the government will say they have cracked corruption then everything will be back to normal

      Lets really hope not, lets hope it is achieved in a democratic, lawful way.

      Sunbelt,
      A year after we paid our deposit, we went to visit the site with our daughter to see the progress. The builders were working on the lower level. Our plot was still scrubland. When we went to the Eralia office and asked why our level(phase1) had not been started they said not to worry it would be ready on time. quote:” It will be done in no time,once they get going ” Little did we know that the licence had already been suspended. Being the honourable, reputable company Eralia are…they chose to lie to us. All that time we had emails from Ocean estates telling us our apartment was on schedule.
      When we were told, 6 months later, by our then lawyer that the apartment we were buying was not going to be built , we asked, not unreasonably, for our money back. We wanted to buy somewhere else. But no…Eralia would not return our money to us. They had taken our money which had been left unprotected for 15 months because unbeknown to us, they did not issue a BG which by law they have to. We eventually got one dated 2 days before we were told by our lawyer..NOT Eralia, of the no build, but it was post dated 19 months. The only reason the bank issued these BG’s was because Eralia had to deposit a huge amount of money into the bank to cover the purchasers deposit monies that Eralia had already used. In 2003 the bank would not issue a BG because they new that there was an impending problem with the building licence. Again we have proof of this. When we asked the bank to honour the BG they also said NO, because Eralia would not allow them to pay us. So we had to go to the stress & expense of a Court case. MORE MONEY!! Thank goodness we had a good Lawyer and together with Charlie, we eventually got our money back.
      During this horrendous saga, other people from Green Hills in the same situation contacted either Charlie or myself, having read of our problems, and asked for help. Knowing how much we needed help in the beginning, we of course did help them as between us we had researched the situation thoroughly. We knew an awful lot about Eralia and their directors, and about all the building licence fiasco at the Town Hall. As Charlie stated before, Eralia never had planning permission to build apartments, only some houses. Hence the term “illegal” comes into play.
      Charlie & Katerina confronted Both Leonardo Cromstedt, and Victor Sanchez face to face on numerous occasions and told them in no uncertain terms that unless we got our money back we would go to the British media & the Courts. They would not do the honourable thing and so we did both. In fact the British media were constantly contacting me. Eralia wanted a fight ..they got one…AND WE WON!!!
      Now as with all campaigners for peoples human rights, just because we won, we are not walking away and saying to the others still waiting for their court cases to be heard ” We’ve got our money back..See Ya!! No, we are now supporting them as they did us. As you will have seen from another post, as you read so many, another of the group got their money back this week, through the Court in Madrid, as reported in Diario Sur. Their apartment was not built either. It has taken them over 3 years! They are ordinary people, not investors playing the markets like you say you do.
      Whatever Charlie & I do to support these people is not done on the forum. We do it by way of private email. We have all become trusted friends.These are people we speak to by phone and have met up with.We have all shared our ghastly experience together. It has nothing to do with you and in no way affects you…or does it?

      You have a vendetta against me. I’m really pleased you are happy with your investment. NOTHING you say to me will alter my view or stop me saying what I want to say. If Mark doesn’t like what we say, he will delete the posts. You are wasting your time and energy It will not change the Green Hills situation by having a go at me. I’ve been using the forum for nearly two years now, the time it took to get our hard earned money back.We have learned a lot from the good advice given here by the lawyers who contribute.

      You can now say/write what you like about me. I’ll still be here but I will not be responding. Take it how you like. I’m really not bothered…nor am I patronising you…telling you how it is.

    • #68852
      Anonymous
      Participant

      [quote=”p800aul

      I’m sorry but sometime it’s seems like sour grapes, as in “How dare you be happy with your purchase even though you don’t have a LFO and i’ve had to go through so much”

      With due respect…Who has said that? Only you. Not me ,not Charlie. You are just stirring up trouble.

      This is not personal Charlie and we should keep it that way

      Actually you are being very personal when you name people contentiously quoting things we have not said… ever!

    • #68853
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Claire/Charlie/Dorothy/Drakan (and a few others telling it like it is). I would just like to say a huge THANKYOU for your contributions so far. The fact you can still be bothered to help, when your cases are sorted, is fantastic. My wife and i have had many sleepless nights, (and still are!)and it makes me furious to see you being criticised for trying to help people see the way things really are, and trying to help them get through their ongoing nightmare. We are trying to raise a young family and if the crooks have their way, will have been cheated out of our life savings, or forced to complete on a place with huge breaches in our contract and after nearly 5 years, still no LFO, and all this through no fault of our own. (unless you consider trusting an agent/ lawyer our fault?)

      Will we allow this to happen?……LIKE HELL WE WILL!!!!!!!!!!!………. with the help of a good lawyer, and the support from family, friends and the people such as those above, we will see this through.

      I raise a glass to anyone in their fight for justice and to all those good people for helping us. Keep up the good work. The difference you make to us and others, could be life changing.

    • #68854
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Claire/Charlie/Dorothy/Drakan (and a few others telling it like it is). I would just like to say a huge THANKYOU for your contributions so far. The fact you can still be bothered to help, when your cases are sorted, is fantastic. My wife and i have had many sleepless nights, (and still are!)and it makes me furious to see you being criticised for trying to help people see the way things really are, and trying to help them get through their ongoing nightmare.

      Well said Goodstich. I too am extremely grateful to those who have shared their experience and knowledge.

    • #68855
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I’m sorry but sometime it’s seems like sour grapes, as in “How dare you be happy with your purchase even though you don’t have a LFO and I’ve had to go through so much”

      With due respect…Who has said that? Only you. Not me ,not Charlie. You are just stirring up trouble

      Claire

      Please read what I put again, for clarity I said sometimes it’s seems like sour grapes I did NOT say anyone had said it, I was saying it seems like that’s what’s been said here.

      Actually you are being very personal when you name people contentiously quoting things we have not said… ever!

      I did not QUOTE anyone I was suggesting that’s what it sounds like sometimes.

      So I am not being personal you are taking this the wrong way.

      Again for clarity no one has every said “sometimes it’s seems like sour grapes” I was suggesting that it sounds like that when you say “your diatribe appears to come from “THE SCHOOL OF ERALIA”” or “You’ve got your shangri la apartment…go and enjoy it with your 26 new best friends. ” and yes now I AM quoting you directly, but you are not alone in this type of comment. I am suggesting we should stop this type comment and be happy for those that want to be happy and help those that are in trouble.

      I have no axe to grind here at all, I’m happy with our purchase, i come on to this board because I am interested in whats going on. I have friends who have bought at Los Lagos (he’s waiting to complete) and one who bought at Green Hills and is trying to get his money back.

      Once again I have no wish to fall out with anyone, I speak my mind like you do. I am not offended by anything you say as I respect your point of view, all i ask is that we try to understand every ones point of view. This is a debate and in a debate we exchange views if we can’t agree, we agree to disagree and there it ends.

      Regards

      Paul

    • #68856
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @p800aul wrote:

      … and there it ends.

      I hope so, because instead of pages of interesting/informative reading – it’s becoming monotonous.
      Until any further news breaks, I have nothing more to add.

    • #68857
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Claire and Charlie
      With respect to you guys this is a forum that we should all be allowed to voice what we think without sarky or personal replies,we are not a shark or one of THEM
      This is not supposed to be a forum that is only for people that want to join the Claire and Charlie club fighting their personal problems.
      The simple fact is that more people will join your army if they feel in anyway they want or need to get out of a transaction our they want someone to help them have an option to continue with the purchase as this is just human nature while thousands of others find it difficult to see what the fuss is about and I would say that accounts for 95%
      Paul,Elixar and myself appear to have become involved as perhaos we feel that the forum is more than a little one sided with its views and nothing more.
      Why tell Paul it has nothing really to do with him and if I dont agree with the Claire and Charlie crusade dont get involved is really not what the forum is about.
      The Fact is tha Elixar and myself are the only real ones that can give the other side of the vendetta as we have a completed purhase and are in position to tell how we feel about OUR property.
      Do you both have your money back YES or NO if no the lack of a bank guarantees are a direct result of the poor practice of the solicitor involved
      There is clearly a couple that have lost there way a little with regards to allowing others to speak their minds lets have a forum that we should be allowed to put both sides of an argument so that people that may wish to join can make their own minds and involve
      If anyone would like me to personally send my photos of the completed develoment then please let me know and as they say a picture speaks a thousand words.
      Charlie with great respect,dont throw the toys out of the pram and say your not going to participate unless we start agreeing with you.
      You and Claire have so much to offer .
      Hopefully Mark will allow this to remain on the forum and we can become a forum that allows all contributions where we allow and respect everyones views whether we agree or not.

    • #68858
      katy
      Blocked

      I think the majority agree with the postings of Claire and charlie, many people would be in a quandry if they had only your postings to read, I think you are just worried about your property value and actually its not all that great on that development..(personal opinion, its lacking in green areas and doesn’t look worth the money). I would want out legal or not.

    • #68859
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Kathy
      I respect your opinion however I choose not to agree.
      My photos and eyes show a different picture so lets see if they can be viewed and let others decide.

    • #68860
      Anonymous
      Participant

      charlie wrote: “With due respect Paul, may I suggest, as you are not a purchaser at Green Hills, you would like to start a thread on your own development – it’s a great way to meet fellow-purchasers”.
      sunbelt’s interpretation: “Why tell Paul it has nothing really to do with him?” 😯 😯

      charlie wrote: “Until any further news breaks, I have nothing more to add”.
      sunbelt’s interpretation: “dont throw the toys out of the pram and say your not going to participate unless we start agreeing with you”. 😯 😯

      Claire wrote: “For what it is worth, I would be very surprised if these developments were demolished”.
      sunbelt’s interpretation: “Telling them buildings without L.F.Os are practically worthless or are going to be bulldozed when we all know this is not going to happen is irrisponsible”. 😯 😯

      The problem is we are just not singing from the same hymn sheet, are we.
      Claire and I write something, and you and Paul twist it to something you both think “it seems what we are saying”.

      See if you can understand something else I wrote, it’s only three words: “IT’S BECOMING MONOTONOUS”.

      You say that (apparently) we have lost our way in allowing others to speak their minds, and that you are the only real ones that can give the other side.
      So, to show you how magnanimous Claire and I in fact are, we have decided to let you and Paul have this thread all to yourselves for a whole week.

      So there you go sunbelt, it’s all yours.
      Tell it like it is, my ol’ Devon lamb chop, and we won’t say a word.

      P.S. Magnanimous = nobly generous

    • #68867
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Charley and Claire
      Thank you for your reply and sorry that you feel that you will not participate for a week
      Without going into each interpretation which is really not the issue and would rather just request you both read for yourselves your hostile and sarky remarks you both direct against anyone that do not share your views 100%
      We are supposed to be clueless/sharks/part of Eralia/no balls to reply/foolish,the list just goes on and to top it all you both take your ball back with yet another sarky remark about regarding my fellow farmers etc.
      Why cant you both just let us all have our say without this hostile reception
      There will be many people and possibly more than you think that may sleep a little better knowing that some of us a quite comfortable with the situation which is only political anyway.
      You both have your money back and as you say Eralia have had to come up with considerable funds they already spent on the infrastucture and commissions.
      Fight for everyone that should get there money back if the property is not built and I for one back this 100%
      As for the rest,we made our decison to buy,some chose solicitors that didnt do their jobs with bank guarantees etc ,why not go after them.
      L.F.Os again unless I am mistaken is not is not just down to Eralia as its everyone,THAT WAS the system that they all worked to and now it needs sorting and it will be.
      Some want their money back as the investment in the area has not been that good,some want their money back because curcumstanes change.
      Just who are you guys fighting for?
      Is it the genuine ones with the properties that havent been built?
      Is it the LF.Os
      Is it the Bank Gurantees and the list goes on
      OR is it that you both are out for revenge against Eralia for how you feel they have treated you

    • #68871
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Katy wrote

      ”I think the majority agree with the postings of Claire and charlie,”

      …..and why?, because they were brave enough to fight the sharks and wise enough to find a good lawyer to help them win when they knew they were in the right. Now that’s what makes them worth listening to!

      They have not given in to the sharks, by compleating without the right licences, LFO’s etc. If everyone followed their advice and theirs actions, and could see through the bull***t, the way they can, the bad guys would be forced to change, and that cant be a bad thing!

      Like all reasonable people that post on this forum, if you share their vision and determination to get rid of the bad guys and stand up for the innocent man in the street, you wont get any negative comments.

    • #68880
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi
      Claire and Charlie didnt complete on a property as there appears there was not one to complete on?
      Quite rightly they feel very upset in the way that whole sorry mess was dealt with and would be a wonderful pair to help any one in that situation.
      I for one am for the man in the street but as is sometimes the case there are two slightly different viewpoints that should be put forward so others can make up their own minds.NO ONES SAYING THEY ARE WRONG
      This way they just might take the view like some of us that the picture they portray is not so bad as to give people sleepless nights.
      Their opinions should be able to be put foward without the sarky comments THATS ALL.
      I think its as I said ,you only join this forum if you have no views of your own you mean then you would have no adverse comments !

    • #68898
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Claire and Charlie
      First day into chairing the forum
      Not had anyone posting on the main forum but have many P.Ms all saying the same
      Quotes Some of many examples

      If you research back if other people do post on this forum giving a opinion that they do not share it always ends in a degenerating slagging match loaded with sarcastic and inane comments.

      Anyone that dose not agree is labelled as an agent/lyer or worse

      Why should people that have no intention of living in Spain be allowed to voice the opinions of those that are.

      I sometime chomp at the bit to post my opinion but I just remain hopeful that they will burn themselves out.

      I am amazed of the responce and feel that some opinions that we are a minority is wlldly off the mark.

      Nothing is black and white and quote the Spanish “This is Spain” and I think that says alot in the way some appear to label them all.
      There are crooked lawyers.estate agents/developers in every country and in particulay in the U.K
      However not all are same and you know what the saying goes “WHEN IN ROME ?”

      They all say the same THE FORUM SHOULD BE OPEN FOR ALL CONTRIBUTIONS and we would then have a fair a open view point that everyone can share.
      Mark I hope you let this remain on the forum ?

    • #68901
      katy
      Blocked

      Well, its open for all contributions….where are they ❓

    • #68917
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Katy
      I think the contibution made yesterday would be a great start if it is taken in the contex that a majority appear to agree and it will remain to be seen if the contributions you have made in the passed will be a little more helpful instead of the one line digs which was what yesterdays posting refered too
      Somehow I dont think some people are for changing.
      As I have not seen any positive postings from you then we will now agree its you turn to lead.

    • #68924
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Claire/Charlie/Dorothy/Drakan/katy/Suzanne (sorry for the good guys i’ve missed, of which there are many if i had time to search back through threads)

      we all have a right to our opinions, but in my experience, if you want hard facts from good guys that post on a regular basis, as well as myself, the above wont let you down.

    • #68975
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi goodstich 44
      As I am in the chair this week and fully intend to continue making contributions so please help me
      Is this some sort of code you guys use or can you explain the contents of your last posting.
      Are we not all supposed to be the good guys and how do you get on the list of Claire,Charlie,Dectitive Dorethy Katy ,Susanne and goodstich 44.
      Help me our here? LETS CALL YOU THE SECRET SIX
      When someone writes in and we dont agree we use terms like these,but what do they mean?
      1 Well this is a PUT-DOWNER for you in Spain?
      2 Fair play hasnt got any balls (poor old fairplay)
      3 Think the monster maybe having a nibble at its creator
      4 We will be strong enough to turn this forum” MWAHAHA”

      Do you have to own a property in Spain to be involved in a Spanish Forum
      If so lets all say where we have one? CLAIRE ? CHARLEY,KATY,SUZANNE,GOODSTICH44 ? come on dont be shy as your quick enough to do a PUT DOWNER (getting there) on the properties we OWN
      As was suggested that I take over the chair for a week hopefully you will not mind if I bring a slightly different stance
      For instance if we are going to post sarky remarks to future members lets have a vote that we know what we are talking about first,if not treat them with the manners they deserve
      Over to you?

    • #68980
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Ah Sunbelt1 – you’re back. In case you missed my message to you under FORUM PORKY PIES – you haven’t answered – thought I’d paste it here too so you can’t miss it.

      Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:18 pm Post subject: FORUM PORKY PIES



      sunbelt1 wrote Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:12 pm



      ‘With regards to La Reseva
      Again I bought this apartment at 12% under the asking price( agent you see) and indeed there was a problem with the garden which I thought I would have to resort to some sort of action (hate Pennorya and everthing they stand for)
      However as I was able to sell again with no commission I was able to break even.(to a Spanish person) ‘

      My Comment:
      Why have you sent me a PM today Sunbelt, asking about my case/info & saying you are trying to get your money back at La Reserva via a Bank Guarantee ❓ ❓ Credit us all with a little more intelligence please.

      If you’ve lost/forgotten your message to me I can copy it here for you too. Suzanne[b[/b]

    • #68982
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sunbelt1 wrote:

      Hi goodstich 44
      As I am in the chair this week and fully intend to continue making contributions so please help me
      Is this some sort of code you guys use or can you explain the contents of your last posting.
      Are we not all supposed to be the good guys and how do you get on the list of Claire,Charlie,Dectitive Dorethy Katy ,Susanne and goodstich 44.
      Help me our here? LETS CALL YOU THE SECRET SIX
      When someone writes in and we dont agree we use terms like these,but what do they mean?
      1 Well this is a PUT-DOWNER for you in Spain?
      2 Fair play hasnt got any balls (poor old fairplay)
      3 Think the monster maybe having a nibble at its creator
      4 We will be strong enough to turn this forum” MWAHAHA”

      Do you have to own a property in Spain to be involved in a Spanish Forum
      If so lets all say where we have one? CLAIRE ? CHARLEY,KATY,SUZANNE,GOODSTICH44 ? come on dont be shy as your quick enough to do a PUT DOWNER (getting there) on the properties we OWN
      As was suggested that I take over the chair for a week hopefully you will not mind if I bring a slightly different stance
      For instance if we are going to post sarky remarks to future members lets have a vote that we know what we are talking about first,if not treat them with the manners they deserve
      Over to you?

      I am totally lost on this one

    • #68991
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I am getting very saddened by what I have been reading here. So many people have gone through a lot of heartache and sleepless nights because of the sitiuation they have found themselves in and needless to say not the result of their own fault. They have then gone on to do a lot of research to try to resolve this mess and at the same time report back to others what they have found out and which in turn could benefit all of us. I, for one, have been helped enourmously by this and armed me with a lot of information giving me more confidence in making my own sitiuation a bit clearer.Even after getting a result themselves, they continue to contribute to the forum. I also appreciate to hear from others that have completed successfully and are happy with their purchase. It has been a very nailbiting time to wonder whether or not to complete or not when there has been no LFO in place, for instance. The sitiuation in Elviria is very complicated and everybody is blaming each other. The developer is blaming the town hall, the town hall is blaming the developer. As far as I have understood, perhaps wrongly, is that as far as Los Lagos is concerned,the building licence granted was for apartments although it should have been villas and townhouses. Apartments were built and now the developers are told that the building licence is not valid. The town hall approved the licence…If they had issued a licence for villas and town houses, surely someone from the the town hall must have noticed that apartments were being built….Anyway, I hope people will continue to contribute to the forum in a positive way and accept that everybody has their own experiences and we should listen and then make up our own mind if the information we give or receive could be of any help. Slagging matches is of no help to anybody and contributes nothing.

    • #68992
      Anonymous
      Participant

      laggen wrote-

      ”So many people have gone through a lot of heartache and sleepless nights because of the sitiuation they have found themselves in and needless to say not the result of their own fault. They have then gone on to do a lot of research to try to resolve this mess and at the same time report back to others what they have found out and which in turn could benefit all of us. I, for one, have been helped enourmously by this”

      …..well said, as is the rest of your post, which is why i have been praising these people, and those who understand their decisions not to give in to the sharks in the system we all read about. As you say, everyone has their story, and though i sympathise with those who have completed without the proper licenses/contract details in place, (often under pressure, lied to or wrong information) i do feel we must recognise decisions/opinions that pander to the bad guys and do not help force the much needed change in the system.

    • #69001
      Anonymous
      Participant

      We seem now to have a getting a forum that people can start putting their points of view.
      We all have views at lets just understand that we are here to help each other as we have experiences both GOOD and BAD
      On hopefully the last dig that I have to reply too
      SUZANNE.?
      Please check my contributions to this forum.
      I was indeed quite involved in the real estate and refer you to the fact that I sold X amount of properties and was paid for only Y.
      My remaining amounts due are as a result of an agreement I have with part of the company that remained in Spain( ie an agreement with a Spanish person in the industry?) and we effectively have 50% ownership and this is my business unless I choose to put forward and not yours to play your games with.
      There so know you see that I am actively involved in all the mess that a company like this bring on people ,I have chosen not to shout about it thats all
      The other property I had was sold.
      To put the secret 6 or is it 7 on this forum straight.
      1 I am not a shark
      2 I am not one of them (whatever that is)
      3 I am not rich as some appear to portray me and i like most on this forum work damn hard for everything I try to give my family
      4 I make my decisons the same as most people here on this forum,some good and some bad and some even worse.
      5 What I do choose to do is if a decision goes wrong is to realize that and try to deal with it accordingly.
      6 I try to respond with my opinions and choose not like the format that some of you reply in which in the main is rude and lacking manners.
      My rules this week so
      Rule 1 UNDERSTAND WE HAVE VIEWS AND AM CONFIDENT THIS WOULD BE A FAR MORE VALUABLE FORUM IF WE COULD SHARE ALL OF OUR EXPERIENCES.

    • #69023
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Sunbelt
      Absolutely amazing posts.

    • #69056
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Jon
      I know what you mean as it is very hard to follow as I find it all baffling myself
      gnik ! thankyou so much
      As you may be aware by know the secret six or is it seven have been very active on another forum ,something about Porkie Pies or liar which ever you want to call it.
      I have only just noticed this as I answered this this question about another interest in a property in La Reserva earlier today.
      It appears that this was some sort of childlike set up ( you know something a six or seven year old would do)
      Ends with Nada nada nada probably another of the secret codes?
      Are these people really the ones that have been posting advice the property market in Spain?
      Have people really taken any notice of these guys or should say play school,if they have then heaven help them.
      Is this what these people with the sleepless nights are relying on ?
      So what happens now as its clear its just a big game to them ,just a game with our properties.
      Lets say?
      E,mmm I THINK THAT EVERYONE WITHOUT AN L,F.O should sign today as I have just bought another six doing just that
      Now you tell me where you bought and I will tell you where I have bought these
      (forgot I asked this before?)
      However you have Detective Dorethy on your side and that really clever undercover Suzanne with her stunning slight of the hand tricks.(see porkie Pies forum)
      Another one that lives in Greece with another that walks her dogs and slags the properties we own( I will tell you if you are getting warmer to give you an extra start)
      MY MUM TAUGHT ME
      SHOW MANNERS ? SHOW RESPECT FOR OTHERS? NEVER TRY TO BE CLEVER AT SOMEONES ELSES EXPENCE ? KEEP QUITE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKNG ABOUT ?DONT GET INVOLVED IF ITS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
      Now children go an play and make sure you have learnt you lesson.
      NOW LETS HAVE A GROWN UP FORUM THAT REALLY HELPS PEOPLE

    • #69060
      katy
      Blocked

      Give someone a rope…. πŸ™„

    • #69063
      Anonymous
      Participant

      It appears you comments fit your name as always oh sorry I was thinking of catty.

    • #69064
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Sunbelt, Stop being such a Pillock

    • #69066
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Must have taken alot of detective work to come up with that one Dorethy
      This one of many insults I have had to take tonight from you guys
      Pillock
      Liar
      Illiterate.
      Please explain why do you all keep insulting me and many others like this.?
      Can we please now have an open forum without this baggage.

    • #69067
      Anonymous
      Participant

      @sunbelt1 wrote:

      ……Nada nada nada probably another of the secret codes?

      yeah, it’s a secret code for idiots, sunbelt – it’s called ‘Spanish’. πŸ˜†

      Katy, don’t think there’s a rope long enough.
      As for getting confused with ‘catty’ – seems like he’s still struggling with his spelling….

    • #69073
      Melosine
      Participant

      Ladies and gentlemen ..no names no pack drill.
      Just a suggestion but let’s call time on this.
      Anyone ever heard of the expression two wrongs don’t make a right.

      This was is probably the best overall forum for Spain for advice, albeit sometimes dictatorial, in my opinion , yet it is turning into the worst.
      What a pity. Surely not what Mark intended.

      I have had my fair share of criticism and ,in my opinion unnecessary sarcasm from those who I think should know better but if I listed, in a negative way, what I had gone through in order to live here it would make stress to many look more like a case of bad hiccups .
      I love living in Spain, never been so relaxed, even though I still have unresolved issues like suddenly realising I moved in without a FLO. Just a stamped scrap of paper !!!
      But I do legally have all utilities albeit without said documentation.

      Living in Spain cannot be compared England. Rules here are treated as guidelines only 😯 . However this is not meant to imply than anyone buying here shouldn’t research and investigate thoroughly and only commit when one is assured it is as legal as it would be in one’s home country
      Buying anywhere is stressful and it certainly is here.

      99% of those on forums are there for one purpose only and that is to assist others in avoiding the pitfalls that we fell into.
      Several people who I have assisted ,privately, have successfully pulled out of bad investments and I am sure others on this site have had equal success stories.
      So let’s get on with our job of helping others .

    • #69076
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I’m travelling constantly at the moment, and barely have time to monitor the forum. Fortunately, this will change next week, when I’m back for an extended period. In the meantime, please keep it clean.

      Mark

    • #69081
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Hi Melosine
      I agree 100% what you say.
      This is the last thing Mark would want and efforts should now be made to collectively put forward our experences to help those that may need it and in some cases for some that just may need a bit of assurance

    • #69082
      Anonymous
      Participant

      You know Mark well do you?

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