[Anonymous]

I just thought I would share my experience with you.

I went on one of these 3 day property viewing trips to the Torravejeca area of Spain with a UK registered spanish property agent, the one with the `Global` name who advertises on TV. Whilst there I was intimidated into handing over a deposit of thousands of pounds (via Visa card) on a property which I clearly didn’t want. I was told that I would have a 14 day cooling-off period, so I paid just to get away from them. I returned to the UK and within 24 hours of handing over the money, I phoned them to cancel but was told I would not get any money back. I offered to pay for any administrative costs that they had incurred, but they said no, I still was not getting my money back. I initiated court proceedings against them under the `unfair contract terms act` but they employed a barrister at £190/hour to prevent the case ever getting into court. This was obviously a very well rehearsed routine. Something I felt that they had performed many many times. The problem is that they prove that they are agents and therefore not the principal of the contract and therefore cannot be sued. The party that the claim is against is the builder, but how can that be when it is the agency that retains all the money? The builder has none of it. I was then ordered to pay their costs of £3000. These people can’t do enough for you, until they have your money, then it all changes.

Thinking of going on an inspection trip? Think again, don’t go anywhere near these sharks.

Anyone interested in this, or has similar previous experiences, can contact me Connollyap@aol.com. I am currently in talks with my local MP to try to have a legal mandatory cooling-off period introduced to stop this and prevent anyone else having to go through this.

[Anonymous]

Do you know if this company is a member of the Association of International Property Professionals (AIPP). If so you can report the company under the AIPP’s rules. It may not get your money back in the short term but may help.

Terry English

[Anonymous]

TonyC,
I would remove the “mailto” email link and just use text with a gap in the middle or you will end up with a shed load of spam every day in the future

[Anonymous]

Please note that you have a come back on your credit card/ Please take it up with and this will also alert the credit card of the activity of the user,

An Agent is responsible for the pricnipal. Did they tell you that they were acting as Agents. The Agent that you are talking about also buy from developers and than sell them on with a hefty margin.

Plus your transation it seams to be done under duress which means there is no contract.

Dont waste your time with MP they are just paper pushers and even if they bringing out the cooling off period do you honestly beleive it can be enforced.

The Baristers reasoning would be the same i.e. agent so cooling off period does not apply

Go for credit card company and if they duck and dive take them to small claims court.

[Anonymous]

Terry –

No. They are not members of the AIPP. I received a reply this morning from their PR department. (Speaks for itself really!)

PJA –

Thanks for the advice.

Shakeel –

I have contacted the credit card company (Alliance & Leicester) with regard to this matter and threatened court proceedings. Their reply was that they would use the same defence as the property agent.

[Anonymous]

Tony – have you thought of complaining to the Trading Standards organisation (if your agent is a UK based one). There are also two consumer organisations based in Spain. One local to Torrevieja – the OMIC and one national based in Madrid – Centro Europeo del Consumidor.

I have had some success in using the Madrid based organisation quite recently. If you want more information please send me a PM.

[Anonymous]

Hi TonyC,

Did you sign the card receipt or enter your pin number at the time of the transaction?. If you did I cant see any way that you will get the deposit back. I dont think you will find any credit card company that will refund a a transaction which appears to be legal regardless of the circumstances.

If you didnt sign a transaction slip then you could argue you didnt approve the transaction.

When you made the transaction did you have to call your credit card company to get it authorised??………for the last few years I have not had any credit cards get approved first time without the client having to call the card centre and explain why they want to spend 3000 euros abroad.

I have never known a builder in the area where I work to give back a deposit because someone has changed their mind.

Bernard

[Melosine]

blawes is correct.
The consumer protection built into credit cards is there if the goods are faulty ,not delivered etc. Not if a customer changes their mind because it is an instantaneous transaction.
Also it was a verbal contract not a written one and therefore very difficult to prove in court
If you had given then a cheque then of course you could have cancelled it. However that’s not how they work.
Most people cannot handle the sales pitch which is geared to mentally manipulate and why inspection trips are to avoided at all costs.

[Anonymous]

I was not sugguesting for a binding contract

1) The contract has been under duress. The transaction was not a regular amount ( I dont know the life style) so this should have been quried by the credit card provider.

I am an experienced buyer and regularly go on an inspection trip. I use the agents knowledge, their transport, hospitality etc.

If I like something. I reserve on a credit card (a credit card which has expired)as a result the transaction does not go through

Once I get back to dull, rainy London I decide ( my own created cooling off period) If I am not sure in the cold light of the day I dont give the agents the expiry date.

I know its wrong but than I am not dealing with people who are honourable or decent.

[Melosine]

Under duress would be difficult to prove without witnesses and you can be sure the organisation would be able to produce some. Can Tony C ?

The fact that Tony C states he is disabled is not sufficent reason for the judge to have to believe him and it will inevitably, win or lose, cost him even more money.
Really depends on how many thousands of £’s are we talking about .

If more than initial deposit he should be able to get any over and above returned eventually if they or he can find a new buyer.
We are all aware that in Spain once a deposit has been accepted if the buyer changes their mind it is lost…and visa versa.

[Anonymous]

Shakeel,

You said

If I like something. I reserve on a credit card (a credit card which has expired)as a result the transaction does not go through

Please explain how you can give an out of date card in this day with electronic machines and nobody spots a card out of date??

Maybe if you didnt use this trick, then those you deal with would be honourable and decent to you !!!

Bernard

[Anonymous]

Blawes 1,
Before you all get the wrong impression I do not do this as a normal day to day only for property purchase in third world/or akin to third world.

In my experience the sales offices do not use pin no etc. so technology does not come into play. They the agent ring the credit card number for the authority at this point the the person ringing finds out that the card has expired. ( Dont forget the agents cant see further than their commission.)

I admire your knieveness and if you think people would be nice to me or to the 1000s of the forum users/non users who have been taken for a ride this forum sadly will be very dull. In their eyes I am not a person its the £$€ is what they me as ( I could have been the Pope it would not have mayyered)

Its a jungle out there and in the absence of enforecement/timely enforements of law & order we have to find our own defences.

[Anonymous]

OliverB –

I have been in talks with trading standards who wanted referral from my local MP before they could do anything (Phil Woolas before I moved), who had replied to my earlier letter only to say that I should contact trading standards first ….mmmmmmm…..they can’t both be right, can they?

The problem with this case now is that it is post hearing, and therefore Stockport County Court has decreed that this company, as an agent, could basically tell you that black is actually white and you can’t do anything about it.

Blawes1 –

Bernard, before we head off in the wrong direction, this thread is not about trying to get money off a credit card company. I tried this approach after advice from my local CAB, however I did feel uncomfortable about this direction as, at the end of the day, the credit card company were in no way to blame for this. Also it is worth pointing out that the builder would not even have known about this deposit, this property was part of a small complex of 9 or 10 houses which were only 50% complete and no others had yet been sold.

Melosine –

What bright side?

Shakeel –

Nice idea, however I personally don’t condone credit card deceit, however the last paragraph probably justifies it.

Melosine –

My disability is not something I like to use to gain advantage. I put it in the title to attract potential viewers, and to make others aware of a potential pitfall, the psycology of it is that reading about other peoples misfortune usually has the reverse effect on the viewer.

[Anonymous]

Maybe the exception rather than the rule, but does show there are some decent developers about!. a client recently paid a 3,000 euro deposit for a new build property that they fell in love with. 1 week later on reflection back in the Uk they decided the property was not right for them, they asked for their deposit back and to my surprise the money minus a small amount to cover bank charges has been refunded.

Jim

[Melosine]

Tony C wasn’t suggesting that at all. Mearly picking up on what you said .
As for look on the bright side.
Whatever happens to us in life there is always someone else much worse off .
To me it’s the only way to keep life in perspective .

[Author]

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