- This topic has 22 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by
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I would have thought so. You paid the deposit which was probably be a % of the amount stated in the contract.
This was a private contract & could have been entered verbally. We enter into 100’s of verbal contracts on a daily basis.
Besides, for practical purposes you can spend more time chasing the vendor in the Courts etc.
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Agree 100% with Shakeel here.
Signed or not you entered a contract when you agreed to buy the property. The change in your circumstances does not mitigate the fact that you are now breaking your end of the deal. Legally, you don´t have a leg to stand on I´m afraid.
To my mind the only thing you could try is to apologise that you can´t go through with the purchase. To explain that the reasons were beyond your control and to ask nicely for your deposit (or at least a part of it) back.
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He does not say that he went to an agent. Even if he did the Agent can say that he passed the money to the Vendor. ( He may or may not have done this )
The Agent is acting for the vendor and not the buyer. The deposit is held by the Agent on trust/on account on behalf of the vendor.
Its irrelevant if there is a receipt issued or not !!!!!!!!!! .
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actually these things do make a difference.
First, legally the agent cannot pass the money over to the vendor, unless a contrato de arras as been signed, or unless specified by the parties involved.
if there is no receipt, there are no legal grounds for the agent to keep the money. if they say they have given it to the vendor, they are in trouble as there are no legal grounds.
if there is a receipt, unless it states non-refundable or some such, they they cannot keep it either.
I’m not saying it would be easy or quick to get hte money back, but the law is on his side (unless stated otherwise).
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I am happy to help, but we have had the case before of “watchers” that happened to be the other side, so please understand I cannot explain these things until I am sure I know who I am dealing with.
I would just say that if there is nothing in writing, then why should the other side keep the deposit? based on what? -
@abolex wrote:
I am happy to help, but we have had the case before of “watchers” that happened to be the other side, so please understand I cannot explain these things until I am sure I know who I am dealing with.
I would just say that if there is nothing in writing, then why should the other side keep the deposit? based on what?oh I agree,
but as no names have been given, etc… and I am willing to bet enough people have been caught in a similar situation, that even a ‘watcher’ would know who you are talking about.
Why not give a general breakdown on what steps someone could take on the above information?
Anything that would strenghen people belief in the rule of law in spain can only be a plus, and free advice on such a public forum can only benefit you. -
My advice to others (sorry can’t help the OP) is do not pay a deposit if you are considering buying a property. Or at the very least a very small one £500 or less.
If you think about what a deposit is..
It’s a gesture to the seller that you are seriously interested in the property and you wish him to remove from sale the property. He wants protection that if he does so, and you subsequently withdraw your offer, he is compensated for all the potential missed sales whilst the property was off the market.
This is a buyers market hardly anything is selling and prices are falling. Your seller does not have a queue of people clambering over each other desperate to buy the property.
Any seller would be extremely happy to get a buyer they are not going to refuse a sale because the buyer won’t pay a deposit. And unless a really exceptional property you are not going to be out bought by someone else.
Simply do not pay a deposit.
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Dear shakeel
I do not agree on your comment re the legal fee.
I have already answered what the strategy would have to be. If there is no contract and no paper, then why would the client loose the deposit? If this is not a deposit? Or is it?
As nothing is written, one can say that the deposit must be refunded because there was no agreement on the terms of the deal.
I would do this on a “no win no fee” basis, as I understand the seller will have to refund the deposit without having to go to Court if the claim is done properly.
Regards, -
Hi Abolex,
Doesn’t your argument work both ways?
One party has transferred a sum of money to a second party. There is no contract. The transfer of money could be as a deposit for a property, a debt being repaid, rental of a property, to lie that he was out drinking with the guy when he was really with his mistress!!
Whatever you put forward as an argument the seller could also put forward. Your argument is that the seller did not provide a contract as verbally agreed. The seller could argue that the buyer would not sign a contract that was verbally agreed.
Now if I was a betting man, and this went to court before a Spanish judge, one party I assume British, the other party Spanish, then my money would be on the Spanish party winning.
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“I do not agree on your comment re the legal fee “
It stands to reason that you agree with other comments. I do not know what you charges are. A small presentation to the court in Spain can easily cost €5k and this mounts up.” If there is no contract and no paper,”
Are you saying that there are no verbal contracts in Spain ??? Besides why would you give money to an estate agent ? normal business creditor,rental of a property or deposit for a purchase. It can be proved that the client was not renting or was a creditor for services provided to the Agent.“why would the client loose the deposit? If this is not a deposit? Or is it?
Why would people loose money in Spain on illegal builds, Why would the Notary,notarised a property when he is aware that the block is illegal, Why would the Hacienda collect taxes on a illegal property. Please dont even go down this road. You will not win many friends on this forum.
” as nothing is written, one can say that the deposit must be refunded because there was no agreement on the terms of the deal”
The Vendor can argue the opposite by saying there was an agreement & that was the money was passed on. In fact the money was sent from UK. clearly there was enough time for the buyer to think about the transaction.
“I would do this on a “no win no fee” basis, as I understand the seller will have to refund the deposit without having to go to Court if the claim is done properly.”
You may not charge the client. The Court fee & dare I say the payment to the judge in the clandestine meeting with the judge will cost & what if you loose the case the cost of the other side.
I am sorry we seen heard & experienced all about the Spanish legal system. It may surprise you that I have many Spanish lawyer friends & I do know what happens when meetings takes in Cortijos etc.
I have my sympathy that he lost his job and the deposit. But to unrealistically raise his expectation is cruel and callous.
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Dear jp1,
The fact is that there has been a money transfer and the party that wishes to keep this sum will have to demonstrate why is it legitimate to keep it. If there is no reason, then both parties must revert whatever they have received as a contract “never existed”.
With regards to your betting, believe or not, things do not work that way.
Dear shakeel,
First of all, I said I believe not necessarily would this have to go to Court. With regards to fees, you can download the Official Scale fees of the Law School in Alicante (they are all quite similar) and this will show you that a small presentation in Court can cost just 156 euros. Obviously it will depend on the amount of the claim but, as a general rule, fees should never exceed 10% of the claim.
You can download here: http://www.icav.es/paginas.php?idpag=131
Re verbal contracts, of course they exist. But one has to proove its existance if one wants to keep the deposit. I am not saying he has won the case because I don’t know if there are other evidences against him; but from the information provided I do not see a legal reason why the seller can keep a deposit for a transaction that cannot be proven.
Re loosing money in Spain, let me just say that in my experience, many times people follow the wrong advice (from agents, from Lawyers that are not impartial, etc) and this ends being a problem. Many times these situations can be corrected and many times is too late. I have been working together with British for many years and have British family and I am not exactly proud how the legal system works here for foreigners – being this the main reason why I participate in this and other forums.
Re the Court fee, I am not sure if you have the correct information. This normally represents a very low amount (around 250 euro for this 10k claim).
You can download it here: http://www.procuradores-coruna.com/docftp/arancel2003.pdf
The scale at the beggining show what Court fee should be on a standard claim, according to the amount of the claim.
Finally, what I understand is cruel and callous is to refer to meetings in Cortijos and clandestine meetings. In my years of experience I have never seen or heard of such a thing except for those in the news (Marbella scandal, for example) which, of course, are the exception.
I am not trying to unreallistically raise any expectation; all I am doing is offering help and an opportunity which in my understanding may ne worth a try. That’s all.
Kind regards,
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Bromleyboy,
Can I ask why on earth you would send someone you do not know 10K without even a formal contract? That does sound extraordinarily reckless behaviour. Would you do that in the UK? Normally, when a deposit is made, a contract setting out the terms is exchanged. Usually, that is you lose the 10% if you back out and if the sellers back out, they have to compensate you by double your deposit. Only when that is signed by both parties is the deposit actually handed over….
Andy
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