September 10, 2007 at 2:07 pm #53139
Imagine a country where:
*The king commands the army, defends the faith, chooses and fires ministers as he wishes, has palaces throughout the kingdom and owns more than 30% of the stock exchange.
*34 media sources were censured during the last legislature.
*Had an abstencion level of 63% in the just completed elections.
*Nearly half of the population of 33 million lives in poverty.
*Corruption is rampant.
*15% of the budget is assigned to the occupation of the Sahara Occidental.
*Half the population is illiterate.
*The influence of Al Qaeda is growing.
This land of milk and honey is not far from here.
Every country has the right to improve its lot and you have to hope that its long suffering citizens will one day taste some milk and honey.
But,would you buy a property in a country with this profile?
Makes me think that Spain, even with all its current scandals, is a much, much safer place to buy a home.
Away from the “pie n’chip” and “you scratch my back” costas, Spain is a great place to live. There will always be people wanting to come and live here.
Given the choice between the land of milk and honey just described and the land of flamenco, I know where I’d buy.
There is so much more to Spain than “off plan”. In my milk and honey kingdom there is pretty much nothing but “off plan”. The political risk can only be described as high and there is virtually no national market. Without a local market what supports your investment?
I could be wrong. I hope I am. But my money is staying this side of the Straits.
(PS Facts courtesy of an editorial in El Mundo of 10 Sept.)
September 10, 2007 at 2:33 pm #74912
well yes,……. but why compare Spain to a hell hole?, why not compare it to ‘pie & chip’ land, which is where much of Spains wealth has come from, and at the moment is a far safer place to buy!!
September 10, 2007 at 2:51 pm #74913
Wholeheartedly agree with you re a comparison between the regulation of the UK market and the Spanish market.
But, it has to be said that loads of people have bought successfully in Spain.
I firmly believe that the catastrophe headlines re Spain are often ill informed. Spain has a functioning property market with an increasing choice of mortgage offers.
Most importantly of all, it has an established domestic market. Hence there is a depth to the resale market.
I have always defended vigourously those who have been cheated by
unscrupulous developers, lawyers and intermediaries. And will continue to do so.
However, I do feel that the focus is too much on the negatives.
I posted re Morocco as it is touted as the new property owners paradise. I think anyone looking at a purchase there would be wise to consider the political/demographic background first. And on that score Spain wins hands down.
September 10, 2007 at 3:36 pm #74915
yes, i know where you’re coming from. Take away the dreadful lack of justice for some people buying property, and the greed and destruction of some of Spains nicest coastlines and you still have a fabulous country that for the majority is still a great place to live in, which is why so many of us in the UK wanted a share! If only the crooks could be bought to justice along with the crooked justice system!, and the building programme bought under control, then i’m sure many negatives could be turned in to positives. At the moment though with so many of us who have been well and truly conned, just trying to get justice, it’s hard to see past the negatives. I just hope those who are ok and happy with their lot, are doing as much as they can to change the system for the better. Apart from the crooks everyone has so much to gain from that. If Spain is forced to get its house in order by masses of bad publicity then sadly, ‘so be it’, but i don’t think anyone would choose that way if there were an alternative!
September 10, 2007 at 5:14 pm #74921
Whilst, agreeing to the obvious risk that you had stated about Morocco. Let us not forget the Spain was compartively in the same state about 40 odd years ago.
In the 80s, driving around inland Spain. I had standard phrases/questions written in Spanish on a piece of paper to ask people if I got lost or got stuck. I recall on a number of occassions that I had placed my written questionaire under peoples noses and they just gave me a blank look. Soon I realised that these people could not read.
To the best of my knowledge the King of Spain is the head and the defender of the faith in Spain and he is also the head of the arm.
The recent censorship against the prince & his wife’s cartoon is an example of censorship (it was in bad taste) but law does not allow for taste. Besides freedom of speech is relative it depends on the intelectual and the economical level of a countries citizens.
Action against people living in poverty is being taken by the current king and besides the head of Countries/institutions investing in local or overseas market is nothing new. It could be the Queen the Vatican or Bush. The gap between the rich & poor is nothing new in any third world Country.
As an investor the Country risk are there. This is matched by rewards. A two bed two bath front line beach around 130M2 can cost around £130k, a similar property in CDS would be around four times in value.
If you wish to buy there and to mimise risk, borrow as much as you can and if things go pear shape leave the keys and take the ferry or the tunnel which should be operative by than.
September 10, 2007 at 5:28 pm #74922
As an individual there is nothing I or others can do to influence the workings of the legal system. However, with my experience of buying, selling, restoring and living here I make a point of telling anyone that asks me all the potential pitfalls of buying here..illegal builds…poor build quality…get a lawyer before doing anything…what questions to ask an agent…the commission scams.. web sites to look at.. etc etc…!
I had experience of the French legal system and can assure you it was a seriously depressing experience.
What seems to irk people here the most is that the system seems to be biased against the wronged. I don’t know if this is a peculiarity of latin legal systems. But it does appear that the law looks more benevolently on the seller of a product/service (irrespective of negligent behaviour) than on the buyer.
It is difficult to make a reasoned judgement on the outcome of the court case referred to on another thread. But it seems to follow the course mentioned above.
What surprises me is that someone in the higher reaches of government doesn’t take steps to speed up the court process and explain to an anglo saxon audience ( who are major investors) why particular judgements – which appear to fly in the face of reason – are being taken.
My original post was to get a conversation going on the reality of buying in Morocco. Spain, France and Italy will always be the principal overseas markets for UK buyers.
Morocco, Bulgaria and all the other so called “emerging” markets have a long road to travel ( if indeed they ever get to the end of the journey) before they can offer the “depth” of the markets in the developed European nations.
Of course, nowhere is perfect but some places are less imperfect than others.
Best of luck with your ongoing battle.
September 11, 2007 at 7:40 am #74935
thanks for wishing me luck.
”What seems to irk people here the most is that the system seems to be biased against the wronged. I don’t know if this is a peculiarity of latin legal systems. But it does appear that the law looks more benevolently on the seller of a product/service (irrespective of negligent behaviour) than on the buyer. ”
…..not much to add to that, just sadly very true and very wrong however you look at it, and i think the number one problem.
September 11, 2007 at 8:34 am #74942
The flaw with buying in Morocco (aside from the points above) and Bulgaria etc is that some of the worst agents in Spain and now promoting these countries, also some of the bad developers are involved. (Some Spanish co’s are in these places, using their “expertise” in ripping of purchasers.
September 11, 2007 at 10:29 am #74945
These agents and developers entering the Moroccon market better not tangle/missell to a local.
They have there own special way of dealing with being screwed, and it’s not through the courts.
September 11, 2007 at 10:43 am #74946
You are indeed correct that some of the worse and not known to be worse developers have moved into Morocco. It is not surprising as northern Morocco has historical links with Spain.
The developers have set up new companies or are in partnership with the locals. Indeed they are carrying on with the same business practises i.e. selling with no or little paper work, without guarantees etc.
Charlie: sadly this is the way people protect themselves in socities where justice is not done or seen not to have been done. I am not for violence but in Rome you do what Romans do and if you dont like dont go to Rome.
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