Ther last resort must always be suing someone in Spain. It takes a long time and it is expensive but If you are right you win. It really depends on your lawyer's skill to put pressure on the developer.

On the other hand that's playing into the hands of the developers and navy boys, wouldn't you agree ?

hello all,

According to Draken......

You ARE entitled to seeing what is contained in the contract before signing it and having it translated in English

I was never given this option and if my memory serves me well I believe there was mention in this forum that you can ask for an English translation as well which does not have to be paid for. Unfortunately I never got a contract nor did I get the offer of an English translation from the solicitor. He was more concerned in getting the deposit asap! When I later disputed all this with him he said that an English version of the contract would have to have been paid for.

Reading this forum makes me feel that I am going round in circles without ever reaching any rational conclusions except one of loss of time and money. Don't get me wrong I appreciate what everyone has to say but at the end of the day look at what we are subjected to in the process of fighting for our rights. Perhaps others would misconstrue this as being only one of greed for those who have gone down the off-plan route wanting to make a quick buck. In my case it was not a question of making huge gains as I am a realist I had only bargained for a small profit but the market the way it is even that was not forthcoming.

Anyway back to the subject of fighting for our rights..... whichever way you look at it we lose and they win (agents/solicitors/developers). Most people cannot afford to fight institutiions who hold all the winning cards, stature in their business, great financial backing, and a seemingly crooked system that allows them to get away with it without tight regulations in place. There does not even appear to be a code of practice that people are made aware of from the outset of these dealings. The agents/solicitors/developers engage in the selling activity as if selling candy from a store and improving their bank balance.

To my mind if you state the facts you will be sued, if you bring the case before the courts you may win but never see a penny from your actions brought against the perpetrators, if you lose because they have powerful legal clout you lose a great deal of money paying for all court expenditure etc...........on and on and on

Right back to going round in circles.

I mentioned on another part of the forum of forming an alliance of similar groups of people and also publicising as a group the facts with the intentions of exposing those who have literally made losses because of the negligence and downright greed of the agents/solicitors/developers.

I also got onto a site 123property a few months ago mentioning the same course of action as on this site there appeared to be many more people like myself suffering incompetencies, negligence etc at the hands of the agents/solicitors/developers. This I hope will happen as it seems the only course of action without incurring massive lawsuits.

So where to from here back to the circle.........

Hi Tania, it's Drakan with an "A".

If I went to Germany and purchased a property i would never sign a contract without a chartered translation in Spanish.

Whose fault is this ?

I'm not putting the blame on you Tania, but If you feel your lawyers have acted wrongly, take them before the ICAM, it's free.

Off-plan can be very profitable If you know what you are doing or very risky If you don't. There's a market-timing for it, investing is an artform.

People who bought off-plan from 1997-2000 have made alot of money tax- fee selling before completion avoiding Capital Gains Tax.

Those who bought from 2000/2001-2005 will most likely lose money. Greed makes you lose money If you don't know what you are doing.

Normally people who think they are smarter than the rest of us and who are greedy get caught, again and again. It happened in 1987, it happened in 1999, it is happening now and wil happen yet again. It is cyclical.

It's up to you to do your own homework and research.

Purchasing off-plan is not bad per se, it has it's pitfalls, granted, but in all investments you have to know what you are doing. If you don't, do not touch off-plan with a bargepole even.

Do you know how warrants, shares, puts, options work ? If you don't, don't invest, it's as easy as that. No one places a gun against your forehead forcing you to invest in realty. Buy bonds, buy government debt at 2% yield.

Investing takes time, takes self-discipline, takes learning, takes planning carefully ahead. It is sacrificial as well as rewarding.

If you really expect the agents/solicitors or whomever to do this on your behalf in an investment venture I guarantee you you're in for a rough ride.

Hi Drakan,

sorry about mis-spelling your name.

In terms of doing your homework and research I thought that was exactly what I had done I went out to Spain a few times and visited and looked into the pros and cons of buying off-plan. That is not it. What is it, it is solicitors taking your money! They should still consult with you on the process of buying off-plan, taking you through the contract, OKing this with you before pushing for a hefty deposit. As most people have mentioned on the forum they trust implicitly in what the solicitor does for them, relying on them to work on their behalf, and usually think it is the ethical thing to have your clients interests at heart.

I am sorry but I am not changing my mind on the fact that agents/solicitors/developers are only interested in their commissions, backhanders and fees at the expense of their clients.

I would add to this that in the UK we are 'protected' by the FSA (in theory). There is a similar government agency in Spain.
Unfortunately many Spanish lawyers have not woken up to consumer protection in modern day practice and are still relying on the reticence of foreign clients, who do not speak the language, trying to reconcile their difficulties with a lawyer who sounds convincing about activities that are 'not anything to worry about'.
Who do you trust? I know several buyers who were recommended a law firm which was acting for the developer. The lawyers' interests were not declared.
How do you find out?
Not until something goes wrong, and then it is too late.
A lot of legal work on the CDS seems to depend on an assumption that if 90% of the clients get to completion then the lawyers can get away with the 10% problems by shrugging their shoulders and saying 'such is life' and in the meantime doing as little real 'client interest' work as possible.
(After all, there are plenty more clients coming)
I applaud Drakan for his fullsome responses to our queries and hope that more effective action is taken by affected clients against the rogue law firms in the business .

Hi DrakAN,

since posting my previous message I received an email from my solicitor in Spain compounding my very beliefs and thoughts contained in that prior message


I will try the developers give me more time to comepete but I have the meeting with them on Thusday at 10:00 in Malaga. If they do not accept to delay the completion we will have to discharge the contract.
On the other hand, yes I requested the developers the insurance covering the amounts already paid although this insurance has already expired since you had to complete some months ago. They are not going to increase the period for the insurance polizy since the rest of the buyers have already completed.
In the case the developers do not respect the clauses stated in the contract and they do not refund you the 50% of the amounts already paid you could start a court procedure against them to ask for that money.

I would like to inform you that tomorrow is Holiday in Marbella so I will contact you on Thursday afternoon.


They have not taken my wishes into account. I told them right from the start I did not wish to complete it was purely an investment to be sold before completion. They told me nothing about an insurance covering the amounts paid nor did they check and protect my interests to receive a refund of 50% and now they have the cheek to suggest I may have to take the developers to court!!!

No wonder I don't have confidence in this crooked market area.

Like I said the solicitors are the winners etc etc.

I find it incredible to believe that anyone would take such as risk in buying property knowing full well that they will not be in a position to complete the purchase - should the deal get to that stage - and should the property not be re-sold before completion. Seems like a good measure of risk assessment was lacking here.

HELLO DR AKAN HOPE YOU CAN ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS FROM ME IM BUYING A DREADED OFF PLAN IN IZNALLOZ NEAR GRANADA FROM A DEVELOPER CALLED grupo rudina. I've paid 3000 euros reservation fee to a lawyer in Malaga as i did not trust the agent with my money. A nice person called town hall in Izznalloz to find out about building licence and it is going through. My lawyer asked for fees up front 1000 euros now and rest on completion 2%. I know ive been ripped off. The estate agent went behind my back and tried to ask 3000 euros from my lawyer. He called me to tell me what they were up to and asked what i wanted to do as they were going to put property back on market. I called them and they lied and said they never called him. Anyway i would like to know if I'm to have a bank guarantee in place when i hand over 30% in 4 weeks time before i sign. Please bear in mind that i have signed nothing with either estate agent or lawyer andthey are not connected in any way. What else should i know to protect myself and to know if my lawyer is going to do his job properly. What clause could i put in the contract? What should i find out about electrics and water? All help would be great as we need to have faith again in spanish lawyers as all the horror stories on this forum are giving me a lot of worries. Am I doing the right thing? The build is not ready until end 2007 so a lot can go wrong so im trying to do my home work now and research every thing thank you bun

the question is why are you buying offplan? are you trying to make some money by reselling it? In which case your'e wasting your time and money.


There are plenty of resale properties on the market there really is NO reason to buy off-plan on the off chance of making a killing! - also there was a survey about late finishing of off-plan properties usually there are over a year late.


So why not just buy a resale? you could move in within a couple of months secure in the knowledge that you are not being shafted by the developer/lawyer/agent.

Hi Kissimees

and all those of you that may want to have a go at me for wanting to make a tiny profit out of an off-plan development.

As I mentioned in an earlier posting I had purely bought on the basis of selling before completion I told the solicitor that over and over again, the agents sold it to me on that basis and the developers knew of my intentions. All said that was fine measures would be put in place to achieve that end. So why can we not get a clause written into the contract to protect us.

Apparantly if completion does not take place over a given period then the deposits are normally refundable. The completion was set to take place after almost a year. I was told that the developer had 180 days in which to complete from the official date of completion in which a full refund was to be made if this did not happen. When I asked my solicitor about this he was all vague. First he was of the opinion it was from November 2004, then he thought it was to take effect from May 2005 and then he finally said it was from the habitation licence! I was stunned did he not know the meaning of the contents of the contract that he had signed on my behalf?

Kissimees comment

I find it incredible to believe that anyone would take such as risk in buying property knowing full well that they will not be in a position to complete the purchase - should the deal get to that stage - and should the property not be re-sold before completion. Seems like a good measure of risk assessment was lacking here.

I am not saying that I am guilty/not guilty of the above but I do have rights and those rights even for the 50% refund should have been maintained by my solicitor. As it happens he has shown negligence. I have been in touch with him constantly and he should have been aware of what needed to be in place to protect my interests. Even now he has pushed obligations aside by telling me I may have to go to the courts to obtain even the 50% refund of my deposit that he should have kept an eye on. Maybe I am crying over spilt milk but I don't think so I believed that the contract was in order because I TRUSTED THE SOLICITOR!!!!

I am beginning to feel that some of you believe that becuase I did not buy a building outright that I am not entitled to any form of protection. It is a bit like saying that the people who invested into their pensions, health insurances, house insurances are not entitled to any assistance and that the system is allowed to let them down. Whichever way you look at it all insurances, pensions, property deals are speculative. That does not mean however that the people who run these schemes can just take your money without putting the right contracts/laws in place to protect you!!

Hi Tania.

It's hard forme to give an opinion without revising the contract stipulations.

However, normally once the Licencia de primera Ocupación is granted by the town hall completion follows at the notary.

Unless you have legal grounds to delay completion, such as the townhall not having granted said licence, you are compelled to complete.

normally there is a clause by which you may pull out and avoid completion albeit you have to pay an amount of money in concept of "penalización".

Normally it's 50% of the amount paid until/before completion. You are in no position to demand the full refund of the money you've paid if you have no legal reason to.

Your lawyers will have to pay 50% of your monies over to the developer I'm afraid.

the mistake here buying off-plan is that EA make seem so easy to resale the property before completion and it's not the case after year 200/2001. as Iposted, buying off-plan can be extremely profitable If done at the right time (that is buying before years 2000/2001) so as to off-set the high purchase costs involved (approx 11%) plus the EA commission which will be in the range of 6-15%.

So If you carry on Tania, you take on a mortagage and pay.

If you pull out now because you never wanted to complete you pay the penalization clause.

If you have the wording of the contract in Spanish email it to me and I'll ckeck it. Ask your lawyers to send you the wording in spanish.

My email is:

drakanciver
@
gmail.
com

I write my email like that because of forum email hunters for publicity/spam reasons.

I'm sorry to hear your case Tania but I'm afraid the realestate market is just like that.

Yours lawyers seem unprofessional. The bank guarantees must be DEMANDED from the developers ALWAYS and there is just no excuses whatsoever. Your lawyers failed you.

My generealadvice to everyone is don't hire a lawyer which is recommended by the big british EA in the costa becaue they have vested interests. It's always the same three or four law firms working directly with the navy boys and company which make the rest of us spanish lawyers look badly and it infuriates me.

Hi Bun.

Well If I were you I would pull out of the contract now (*). Don't buy off-plan as an investment now or you'll lose alot of money.

On the other hand If you are buying O-P as a home then carry on.

(*)The reservation 3.000 euros is a non-refundable deposit. If you pull-out now you lose the 3.000 euros and you cannot in any way reclaim it back.

Well of course Bun, once you pay 3.000 euros or 30% downpayment before completion you are LEGALLY entitled to PESTER/MOLEST your lawyer until he obtains on your behalf said bank guarantee or insurance policy. It is outr job to ensure this. Accept no excuses whatsoever, the lawyer MUST obtain this guaranteee.

The bank guarantee is only given a few months after you've paid the 30%, never before. It guarantees past payments you've done, not future payments and only for the amount of the guarantee.

DEMAND from your lawyer a faxed copy of said guarantee, it is vital.


If he doesn't obtain the guarantee for you I guarantee you 100% he works for the developer and not for you.

Water, electricity etc.. all that comes into play after the Licencia de Primera Ocupación (Licence of First Dwelling) shortly before completion, in your case probably in year 2007 or later.

You paid a lawyer 2% ?? I wish I had more clients like you. seriously, that is not right,the legal standard fee is 1% whether if the plot is rustic or urban. If you pay more than 1% renegotiate or wheel and deel with your lawyer saying you'llgo with a more competitive one.

If you have any further queries Bun just post them in this forum, I'll reply.

Drakan thanks for your help and time, WELL I ALL READY FEEL PISSED for been taken for a ride on first step of property buying by my 2% lawyer oh well, as for resavation fee if nothing has been signed between myself and the estate agents can they still tryed to get this money if they dont hold it, A indepentant 2% lawyer has it , and as for this bank insurance guarantee who is supposed to get this the lawyer or the developer?? who pays the premium? what if i pay the 30% and from now till the bank guarantee comes through the developer goes bust? sorry for all the question but im trying to be my home work but i appreciate you help , what if the developer goes bust befor bank guarantee comes through does the lawyers really hand over monies before anything is in place??????lawyer gets 2000euros on 98500 property transaction not bad thanks bun

Drakan iforgot what if the 30% is paid to the developer and then he does not come up with the bank guarantee??????? thanks bun