Why is TINSA improving?

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Inez Inez 6 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #55336
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    IN UK, at least in my neighborhood, nobody sells now and nobody buys. I guess the Nationwide+Halifax price indices are lifted by London areas where people need to get on with their lives and need to chose from the very limited offer.

    But is it the same in Spain? Are the TINSA numbers distorted by the limited number of people who buy in Barcelona, Valencia or Madrid (where maybe the number of attractive properties is somehow limited)?

  • #95540
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    Hi,

    this seems to be a misunderstanding among many. Tinsa’s valuations are not based on the level of transactions but on the building quality, location, finish, area infrastructure, public services, similar/comparable buildings, etc….

    If anything, based on the most recent valuations I have seen the general TINSA figure for the med. coast (2056€/sqm), is lower than what I see.

    Unfortunately they don’t give regional statistics (yet!)

  • #95541
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Tinsa figures are based on valuations, not transaction prices. Valuations seem to depend upon the mood of the person doing the appraisal, or whatever the paymaster (usually the bank) wants. I’ll give you an example. A friend of mine just bought a house in Barcelona for 1.2 million Euros. He got 2 valuations: one at 1.6 million, the other over 2 million. True price 1.2 million. Go figure.

    It’s a problem. Getting meaningful price data is difficult. The indices based on asking prices only tell you about the fantasies of vendors. The indices based on valuations are bad guess work.

    Only I know what is really going on.

    Mark

  • #95542
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Only I know what is really going on

    Come on then Mark share it with us.

  • #95546
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Only I know what is really going on.

    Mark[/quote] 😆

  • #95547
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Only I know what is really going on.

    I guess it is “Only if I knew what is really going on”… Am I right?

  • #95548
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    Hi,

    this seems to be a misunderstanding among many. Tinsa’s valuations are not based on the level of transactions but on the building quality, location, finish, area infrastructure, public services, similar/comparable buildings, etc….

    If anything, based on the most recent valuations I have seen the general TINSA figure for the med. coast (2056€/sqm), is lower than what I see.

    Unfortunately they don’t give regional statistics (yet!)

    Well in Costa Blanca it is lower than 1000 €/sqm and probably the same in Murcia/Almeria so Malaga/Barcelona/Valencia are counterbalanced…

  • #95552
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    In today’s market place property of every description is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
    There are still a few uninformed buyers who will buy at prices way above reality which distorts the real market and gives hope to those holding out for prices which reflect the market 2-3 years ago.
    They buy for emotional reasons leaving their common sense behind. These are the diamonds that unscrupulous agents seek out. Banks are being just as dishonest providing valuations which reflect only what they are owed, not it’s market worth.
    These are some of the reasons I keep suggesting the Spanish property market is currently toxic and should be avoided at all costs. Invest your money in EU Gilts and rent if you want holidays in Spain.

  • #95554
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Well in Costa Blanca it is lower than 1000 €/sqm and probably the same in Murcia/Almeria so Malaga/Barcelona/Valencia are counterbalanced…

    For me this is where is gets interesting. Do we include Barcelona/malaga/valencia as mediterrean coast/capitals & large city/metropolitan areas?

    EDIT: in reference to TINSA sqm valuations

  • #95555
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I don´t see why you think the Tinsa index is improving.

    Yes the rate of decline is recorded as slowing but given that we are now now dealing with falls upon falls (Nov 09 was -8.9% on the costas, Nov 08 was -8.5%) the year on year figures are now pretty meaningless. Much more relevant are the peak (Dec 07) to present numbers, currently -20.6%.

    Tinsa is by no means perfect but it is by some way the best of the indexes available in Spain.

  • #95556
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @brianc_li wrote:

    I don´t see why you think the Tinsa index is improving.

    Yes the rate of decline is recorded as slowing but given that we are now now dealing with falls upon falls (Nov 09 was -8.9% on the costas, Nov 08 was -8.5%) the year on year figures are now pretty meaningless. Much more relevant are the peak (Dec 07) to present numbers, currently -20.6%.

    Tinsa is by no means perfect but it is by some way the best of the indexes available in Spain.

    Well, if you look at the graph, the prices “increased” month over month between October and November. The same as the claim that UK prices “increased” every month over the last 6 months… Nobody believes that.

  • #95563
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Well, if you look at the graph, the prices “increased” month over month between October and November. The same as the claim that UK prices “increased” every month over the last 6 months… Nobody believes that.

    I think you are miss-reading the graph. The only graph that shows a ‘positive’ trend in the one based on year on year changes. And that only shows that prices are dropping less now than previously.

    For example, in October, Tinsa stated that the average price per square metre along the Costas was 2082€ and as of November that figure stands at 2056. A drop of 1.11%.

    Nationally property valuations are down 0.5% month on month.

  • #95569
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Flosmichel, just to echo what Fuengi has said. It seems you are misreading the graph.

    It shows what appears to be an increase only because the month on month figures for November are ‘less worse’ than those for October. Prices are still falling and look set to do so for some time. It is just that they are falling a bit more slowly now than in earlier this year.

  • #95575
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @brianc_li wrote:

    Flosmichel, just to echo what Fuengi has said. It seems you are misreading the graph.

    It shows what appears to be an increase only because the month on month figures for November are ‘less worse’ than those for October. Prices are still falling and look set to do so for some time. It is just that they are falling a bit more slowly now than in earlier this year.

    Hi Fuengi and Brian,

    sorry, I was wrong. But a “less worse” situation is still a bit surprising for me…

  • #95576
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    As far as statistics go, TINSA valuations are probably the most respectable for Spain at this moment.

    But, at the end of the day, valuations are not sales prices.

    For example in 2007 at the peak of TINSA’s valuations, on average, a 2 bedroom 75 sqm property would have valued at around 190,000€.
    Today on average the valuation would come to around 155,000€ today.

    Remember a thread from a while back on Paradise Lost? The gentleman in Manilva bought a 55sqm 2 bedroom apartment in 2006/7 for approximatrly 250,000€. I don’t think it would have valued at 4500€ a sqm by TINSA.

  • #95580
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    No it wont and it would sell for around 100k today furnished with the garage space.

    Unfortunately he could not sell it for that price as his mortgage was much higher and he hadent the money to clear the mortgage. Many in that situation.

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