When should I buy in Spain ?

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This topic contains 50 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of elizabethjohn elizabethjohn 4 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #57022
    Profile photo of elizabethjohn
    elizabethjohn
    Participant

    I live in London and want to buy a wee place in Spain nearish to the beach and with a wee bit of outside space
    for long weekends and holidays
    How long should I wait ?
    Liz

  • #111773
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @elizabethjohn wrote:

    I live in London and want to buy a wee place in Spain nearish to the beach and with a wee bit of outside space
    for long weekends and holidays
    How long should I wait ?
    Liz

    I think it’s more important to get the location right than get the timing right. Finding the right place for you should take at least a year of investigating different areas, renting places for a few weekends here and there, and generally finding out what works for you. By that time prices should have come down a bit more and you should know what represents value.

    Personally I can’t understand why anyone would want to buy somewhere just to fly out to at weekends since buying (and selling) in Spain is expensive, maintaining a property takes time and money, and you feel obliged to keep going back to the same place. Personally I’d just rent different places all over Spain, discover new areas, and let someone else tidy up after you.

  • #111774
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Not everyone wants the hassle of renting.

    Turning up to your own home, when you want, with everything as you left it is a world apart from renting.

  • #111775
    Profile photo of elizabethjohn
    elizabethjohn
    Participant

    so you think it will be cheaper in a years time ?
    should I approach local estate agents over there ?

  • #111776
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    cheaper, who knows… i very much doubt they’ll be going up though. i am looking for a second home also, i am renting for a good few months next year to check out some areas i already like better. there is nothing to lose doing that imo. you can find houses for sale on fotocasa and idealista websites, although many wont be on there but its great to get an idea and to connect with agents whom might have other stuff on their books. there are many illegal houses for sale, watch out for them, do your homework before parting with any cash.

  • #111777
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Elizabeth,

    You have just aked the sixtyfour thousand dollar question. Whilst many will hold a view on the matter the plain fact is that nobody knows. About the only thing I can say with any sort of confidence is that the market is falling and as yet there appears to be no bottom in sight.

    When it reaches bottom is anybodys guess. Some, usually estate agents, say it is there now. They have however been saying that for years. Some believe the market will collapse completely and that you’ll be able to pick up a two bed two bath on the CDS for 20k. Most independent observers feel that, whilst there will probably be more falls to come, the market is unlikely to collapse.

    The big unknown is other economic factors. Will the euro survive? Will inflation rise sharply? Will China go into a seriuos slump and bring the rest of the world economy with it?……. Answers on a postcard please.

  • #111778
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @Hybrid wrote:

    Not everyone wants the hassle of renting.

    I can’t see how spending 5 minutes booking a place on the internet that will be spotless when you arrive and doesn’t have to be spotless when you leave, can ever be more hassle than going through the drawn out process of buying it, maintaining all the services, paying all the taxes, dealing with electricity being cut off, etc and, when it comes to it, selling.

    @Hybrid wrote:

    Turning up to your own home, when you want, with everything as you left it is a world apart from renting.

    If you only spend the occasional weekend there then it’ll more likely end up being a base to explore the area, or just head down to the beach, etc. You might not spend that much time in the house itself so having “everything just as you want” might not be that big a priority. Each unto their own of course, but for me it’s hard to see the advantage in owning a place that you only fly out to on the occasional weekend. I certainly can’t see any financial advantage in doing so.

  • #111779
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I guess everyone is different. I am not buying for investment, or to spend a few weekends in it a year.

    I am buying to use the property for months on end, while tinkering with it to give me something to do.

  • #111781
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @Hybrid wrote:

    I guess everyone is different. I am not buying for investment, or to spend a few weekends in it a year.

    I am buying to use the property for months on end, while tinkering with it to give me something to do.

    In that case I think what you are doing makes sense (I envy you). It’s just that the op talked about using the place for occasional long weekends only and personally I find it difficult to imagine owning a property being worthwhile (in terms of money and effort) if that’s all it’s going to be used for.

  • #111782
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Pro’s and con’s to both. We nearly always had a holiday home. When the kids were young we spent all the school holidays there. As they grew up they didn’t want to go so much and we were getting fed up of the same place. We got interested in the rest of the world and worked abroad a lot so rarely went for a decade. So, we long term rented, sold a bought another 🙄 and did at least one holiday per year in it and lots of long weekends. The pro’s are being able to leave your stuff and you could get someone in to clear up after you leave. If it’s your own you do spend a long time trailing around DIY shops though. Not much of a holiday having to do little jobs everytime you go.

    Thinking back I wouldn’t do it again. Unless you spend a lot of time in it the costs are too high now and air fares not as low. At one time there was always the advantage that prices were going up but not now for a decade. If only spending a few weeks per year there it would be better to have a few holidays in luxury hotels and there is a whole world out there.

    Not knocking anyone for doing it, just looking back it doesn’t make financial sense and there can be a lot of hassle. Daughter and husband had a holiday home for a few years. They rented sometimes and then the Agent failed to hand over 4870€ for August rentals. They did get it back eventually (thanks to me 😀 ). Another time they arrived to find that the neighbour was reforming and had entered the garden and knocked down some trees with the excavator (a story for another time!) So they sold after about 3 years and she said she would never buy property abroad again.

  • #111786
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @elizabethjohn wrote:

    so you think it will be cheaper in a years time ?
    should I approach local estate agents over there ?

    Yes I think property in Spain will be cheaper next year in general.

    It sounds like you are unfamiliar with buying a property in Spain, in which case you should be extremely cautious. People are desperate and estate agents are unregulated in Spain. That’s not to say there aren’t any decent agents out there, but at the end of the day they represent the seller and it’s up to you to find the property that is right for you, not them. The best way to do that is to spend time in the areas that interest you, so you can find out for yourself whether they suit you, before making a purchase. If you get it wrong, it’ll take a long time to sell it and you will lose money.

  • #111789
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @elizabethjohn wrote:

    How long should I wait ?
    Liz

    My view is that now is a good a time as any.

    Prices have fallen in general around 50% and there are millions (literally) of properties for sale. There is a huge gulf between a private seller and a bank/developer property in terms of advertised price. Prices will undoubtedly fall further but this will be the general market level, it’s possible today to see private sellers selling at prices that would be considered 75% down from the peak. What will happen is that the general market level will approach the prices of desperate sellers** today. So it’s entirely feasible that you could select from 1000’s of private properties that are probably being sold at what will turn out to be the market bottom, or if not very close to it.

    ** I used the term desperate sellers, but this is a catch all term. There are many owners who simply wish to sell as the property has now served it purpose, no longer required and appreciate what is needed to attract a buyer, they probably are extremely financially secure but want to move on in their life.

    Of course there are also many that really are in financial difficulty and facing repossession, if your incredibly low offer (or their low sale price) matches their mortgage then a sale can be achieved.

    The market is really not like the UK where you can look at a street of houses and all are priced within 5% of each other. In Spain IDENTICAL properties in the same street can vary by as much as 100%.

  • #111794
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    jp1 – I was trying to express similar thoughts a few months ago but you did a better job. I do agree that there are people willing to sell at pretty much any price right now and it makes no difference whether you make the offer this year or the next, they will accept it now. So if you find a property you really like and you can get say 70% of peak for it then go for it and start enjoying it. I would. The problem is that at the moment it takes a lot of effort to identify such properties, and when you do you need to be in a position to proceed with the purchase relatively quickly. Most people in the UK looking to buy in Spain aren’t in a position to do that so for them I think it is better to wait until average asking price has come down and they can pick and choose.

  • #111796
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Elizabethjohn, please, please, rent for a while before you even consider buying. Get to know the area, if you don’t like it you will have spent very little and can change to rent somewhere else. Too many people have been blinded by ‘isn’t this lovely’ and have become trapped.

    Number two, learn Spanish. Listen to cd’s, take college courses, find a student exchange or whatever. Don’t be reliant on a translator as how do you really know that you can trust them?

    There are lovely places for sale which I guess would be the same price today as they will be next year. The owners want to sell and they have a minimum amount in their mind. If they don’t get that then I guess they’ll just wait, a year, two or whatever.

    If you find a place you really love, love the area, feel safe (very important!), have sussed out the area (read up on forums such as these, ask questions from people who have lived there etc.) and then get a price you are happy with, come online and ask for a decent solicitor. Don’t trust agents 100%, sorry agents….how can anyone?? Don’t buy something which looks fantastic through rose tinted glasses and then turns your life into a living nightmare.

    Personally I would suggest staying out in a all inclusive hotel for months on end…. enjoy the sunshine, swimming pool, food, and not have to worry about the bills or maintenance. Keep busy, take courses in pottery, carpentery or whatever you are interested in but don’t spend all your money on ‘the money pit’.

  • #111806
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @itsme wrote:

    Elizabethjohn, please, please, rent for a while before you even consider buying. Get to know the area, if you don’t like it you will have spent very little and can change to rent somewhere else. Too many people have been blinded by ‘isn’t this lovely’ and have become trapped.

    Number two, learn Spanish. Listen to cd’s, take college courses, find a student exchange or whatever. Don’t be reliant on a translator as how do you really know that you can trust them?

    There are lovely places for sale which I guess would be the same price today as they will be next year. The owners want to sell and they have a minimum amount in their mind. If they don’t get that then I guess they’ll just wait, a year, two or whatever.

    If you find a place you really love, love the area, feel safe (very important!), have sussed out the area (read up on forums such as these, ask questions from people who have lived there etc.) and then get a price you are happy with, come online and ask for a decent solicitor. Don’t trust agents 100%, sorry agents….how can anyone?? Don’t buy something which looks fantastic through rose tinted glasses and then turns your life into a living nightmare.

    Personally I would suggest staying out in a all inclusive hotel for months on end…. enjoy the sunshine, swimming pool, food, and not have to worry about the bills or maintenance. Keep busy, take courses in pottery, carpentery or whatever you are interested in but don’t spend all your money on ‘the money pit’.

    Some very good advice there (although I’m not sure that paying hotel prices is avoiding the money pit..)
    Although not all sellers have left denial stage, there are plenty of bargains around the country to pick up. Coming from London everything will seem relatively cheap.
    The best news (from the buyers’ point of view) is that there is unlikely to be a strong recovery soon (with the possible exception of Barcelona if they land the Eurovegas project). So take your time and choose the ideal area, before making your move.

  • #111807
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Hmmm what has happened to the Eurovegas “project” not seen any news for ages. Likewise the Paramount, last I heard they were raising a stone 🙄 The marbella “project” for an Island in the marina and a 6*hotel is in the air too since the sheik has been missing payments at málaga football cup and put the club on sale….the land of hot air 😆

  • #111810
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Seems the American Entrepreneur Sheldon Adelson the man behind this project has previous bad history and not wanted in Spain by many.

    http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/a … 5527.shtml

    Apart from farmers and others protesting about this project it seems yet another way for Spain’s ‘B’ money industry to thrive, talk of an increase in it’s huge prostitution economy, and talk of taking Spain back to it’s property troubles of 2008, make or break it seems 🙄

  • #111812
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    I don’t think the EuroVegas project (if it does go ahead – as per the article the limiting factor is how they raise the money at these times of credit crunch and bond sale difficulties) will make a difference to property prices generally, outside the location it is built. I mentioned Barcelona as it’s possible that expat buyers may look at Catalunya. But it’s not going to affect the many properties on sale in Valencia, Murcia or Andalucia. I think we’re in for a good few years of low house prices in Spain, which imo is a good thing for the overall economy. Not so good for those who bought near the peak, unfortunately.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/09/can-eurovegas-save-spain/309053/

    The biggest challenge for either city, and a potential pitfall for the project, will be raising the billions of euros in capital that Adelson demands Spanish banks provide. In exchange, he claims, EuroVegas will create upwards of 250,000 jobs.

  • #111816
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @elizabethjohn wrote:

    I live in London and want to buy a wee place in Spain nearish to the beach and with a wee bit of outside space
    for long weekends and holidays
    How long should I wait ?
    Liz

    I would wait until Spain has crashed out of the Euro and adopted the Peseta. This will result in an instant devaluation of the currency by at least 50% which will mean that property prices in Spain will halve overnight. However, even when Spain does drop out of the Euro this will cause tremendous economic problems and Spains economic nightmare will only begin as the devaluation will cause inflation to go sky high resulting in stellar high interest rates that will result in more bankruptcies, higher unemployment and more properties put up for sale further increasing the massive amount of property that is already on the market already causing house prices to fall even further.

    It is expected that Spain will drop out of the Euro in three to four years time but I will wait just a bit longer for things to settle down afterwards, wait say five years before buying property, but then again, you will find that things will have got so bad in Spain by then that you wouldn’t even want to step foot in the country let alone want to buy a property in the place.

    Spain is becoming another Greece, Spain is becoming a third world country, why would you want to buy a property in a Third World country where people will be living in the dirt of an economy in ruins? You would be mad to buy anything in Spain in the next five to ten years. The Spanish property market will never recover. All Spanish property is toxic rubbish.

  • #111818
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    If Spain does go back to the Peseta it does not neccessarily mean that there will be a devaluation against the pound. The UK will take a hit too which will keep the pound low.

    I do agree that if Spain continues to go downhill that Brits may not want to live there. Previously loved by thousands of pensioners the crumbling health service, Town Hall services (what little there is) will be a bit of a deterrent. Already prescription charges have gone up and where before pensioners did not pay they now have to pay 10% of costs. Adding to that almost 500 common items have been removed and patients will have to pay full price for them. Some of these are for arthritis, stomach complaints etc which affects pensioners. Hospital waiting lists have increased four fold in only a few years and surely this will get worse.

  • #111821
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    … wait say five years before buying property

    The OP might be dead by then!

  • #111823
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I know that it is really hard to believe but at one point people were buying property in Spain as a good long term investment. A good definition of a long term investment is a short-term investment that has gone bad. Spanish property may have been a good investment if you timed it correctly and bought it low and sold high but those days vanished overnight in late 2007 and Spanish property will never be an investment only a place to live.

    I keep reading horror stories about Spain and in particular about the constant legal and tax pitfuls of buying property in Spain, that it makes you wonder why anybody would want to live in the place. Spain is a nightmare, both economically and in terms of the dreaded tax man. Given that house prices have been falling since 2007, if you do manage to bag yourself a bargain property the Spanish tax man will have other ideas and will impose a sales tax on the property based on its own valuation of what it reckons the property is worth (Valor Fiscal), not on what you actually paid for it, unless the purchase price is higher than the Valor Fiscal in which case the sales tax is paid on the purchase price. The tax authorities valuations (Valor Fiscal) would have been revised upwards several times during the years when house prices were rocketing during the housing boom. The discrepancy between the purchase price of property and the Valor Fiscal is only likely to get worse as property prices continue to fall with no downward revisions likely to the Valor Fiscal valuations set by the Spanish tax authorities to take into account falling property prices.

    In a few years time, when Spanish property prices have finally reached the bottom, there will be bargain hunters hoping to bag a property just as house prices reached the bottom, bottom feeders, but in bagging a bargain what these people won’t realise until it is too late is that the Spanish tax man will demand a sales tax on the property transaction based not on the low price the person paid for the property but on the Valor Fiscal valuation the tax man puts on the property which is likely is be a lot higher than the purchase price because the valuation was worked out during the boom years, and so the unaware, naive and gullible buyer will eventually get a tax demand from the tax authorities demanding what is likely to be a huge tax demand.

    Just as a warning, the solicitor/lawyer that you will use to make the property purchase may just say that there is a 10% sales tax to pay on the purchase price of the property, without warning you that if the purchase price is below the Valor Fiscal valuation then the sales tax is applied to the Valor Fiscal instead. The solicitor may fail to mention this fact either because they are incompetent or because, as is most likely to be the case, they do not want you to be put off from making the property purchase by telling you the real cost of making the transaction for fear that you might pull out of purchasing the property and the solicitor/lawyer will not make any money.

    So you still want to buy a property in Spain do you?…Spanish property is a nightmare.

    As far as I am aware the Valor Fiscal does not apply anywhere else in Europe when buying property so you will be better off buying property anywhere else than Spain.

  • #111826
    Profile photo of elizabethjohn
    elizabethjohn
    Participant

    your putting me off Jakesuper :/

  • #111827
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Elizabeth, whilst Jake is pretty full on doom and gloom for Spain and other countries too, the main point to consider from him and many others here is to wait longer before buying as it looks like the market could fall further, and, it’s not suddenly going to increase property prices so you won’t miss out by waiting. There’s still a lot of possible bad news for Spain to come out in the wash first. 🙄

  • #111829
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    One thing that may affect certain resort areas is that international tourism to Spain has held up very well in this recession. In fact spending by foreign tourists jumped by 8.9% in July! (link is in Spanish)
    http://www.eleconomista.es/espana/noticias/4208810/08/12/El-gasto-de-los-turistas-en-Espana-sube-un-89-en-el-mes-de-julio.html

    Be aware also that the Russians are increasing in numbers, particularly in Catalunya.
    Some Brits got caught out a few years back – they bought a place in a location that they assumed was either going to be Brit expat (with associated shops and bars) or Spanish families, and instead the Germans moved in. Another reason I suppose for taking your time and looking into your area. (I don’t argue it’s bad to live next to Germans or Russians, just that facilities may not be geared towards Brit needs)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/14/russians-middle-class-spain-tourism?CMP=twt_gu

    The Russians are coming and this time it’s good news. Just when it looked as though the tourist industry was about to join Spain’s growing list of calamities, an influx of Russian tourists has saved the season. They are even buying houses and reviving moribund bullfighting.

  • #111830
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Always rent first…..

  • #111831
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @elizabethjohn wrote:

    your putting me off Jakesuper :/

    Nothing wrong with being put off, but don’t pay much attention to his claims that property will crash by 90%

  • #111832
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    One thing that may affect certain resort areas is that international tourism to Spain has held up very well in this recession. In fact spending by foreign tourists jumped by 8.9% in July…

    Be aware also that the Russians are increasing in numbers, particularly in Catalunya…

    There is a constant stream of rubbish reported in the media about the increasing number of Russian tourists and how it is the Russians who are snapping up properties across Europe. The Russians prefer to go on holiday to places nearer to home like the Black Sea resorts of Romania and Bulgaria and places like Turkey, Cyprus and Greece rather than going to Spain which is further away. I can’t imagine many Russians visiting the Spanish mainland, they might prefer to go to Mallorca (Majorca) or Ibiza (Evissa) instead.

  • #111834
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @elizabethjohn wrote:

    your putting me off Jakesuper :/

    don’t worry about him. He just repeats what others say and act like it is his own advice.

    Prices are still dropping. different areas at different rates. If you want to buy well, you need to know the area where you are buying. forget about the ‘boom’ prices, etc…. Be sensible, look at the cost of the property, no just purchase price, but running costs, etc… Do you intend to use it enough to make a purchase worthwhile? or would it be cheaper to simply rent or stay in a hotel each year.
    Do you intend to rent it out as well? understand what market segment you would appeal to.
    Is the area you are buying in a popular tourist destination(if so throughough the year or only part of)? does it attract a mix of nationalities and budgets, or only local spanish market?

    I think jp1, chopera, have all covered the important points.

  • #111835
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    if only other agents took a leaf out of your book Andrew maybe the Spanish property market would become a little more transparent! 😛

  • #111836
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @angie wrote:

    if only other agents took a leaf out of your book Andrew maybe the Spanish property market would become a little more transparent! 😛

    😮
    thanks

  • #111843
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    The Russians prefer to go on holiday to places nearer to home like the Black Sea resorts of Romania and Bulgaria and places like Turkey, Cyprus and Greece rather than going to Spain which is further away. I can’t imagine many Russians visiting the Spanish mainland, they might prefer to go to Mallorca (Majorca) or Ibiza (Evissa) instead.

    Why wouldn’t the Russians want to goto Spain? To them its a exotic long distance destination. A friend is going on holiday from Poland, via London. She is rather poor, but she has saved the money to visit the peninsula.

  • #111844
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @peterhun wrote:

    @jakesuper wrote:
    The Russians prefer to go on holiday to places nearer to home like the Black Sea resorts of Romania and Bulgaria and places like Turkey, Cyprus and Greece rather than going to Spain which is further away. I can’t imagine many Russians visiting the Spanish mainland, they might prefer to go to Mallorca (Majorca) or Ibiza (Evissa) instead.

    Why wouldn’t the Russians want to goto Spain? To them its a exotic long distance destination. A friend is going on holiday from Poland, via London. She is rather poor, but she has saved the money to visit the peninsula.

    If the Russians wanted to buy Spanish property then it might not crash by 90% and jake might not be able to pick up his villa for 20 grand. And since it is inevitable that jake is going to pick up his villa for 20 grand, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the Russians aren’t interested in Spanish property. Simples.

  • #111845
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I like to be frank with you all, to be candid in fact, I like to think of myself as a straight talking kind of guy who likes to tell it as it is. Nearly all the people that I know who bought a property in Spain end up regretting it. Those people who say that they are happy owning a property in Spain are lying. You will get ripped off when buying a property in Spain. The Spanish Government will fleece you for every penny you have got and the people who bought a property in Spain end up pennyless, having lost all their money in scams and taxes and end up selling their properties in Spain and returning to the UK in tears saying that they will never buy a property abroad ever again.

    The only people who own property in Spain nowadays, apart from the Spaniards, are criminals, drug smugglers, people on the run from the law, crooked estate agents, corrupt solicitors and lawyers, and retired expatriots who would love to get out of spain but can’t because they can’t sell their property and have effectively bought a coffin in the Sun.

    Over the next few years people will be tempted by the collapse in house prices to come to Spain looking to pick up a bargain property in the Sun only to discover that there is a sting in the tail in that although they will be aware that there is a 10% sales tax to pay when buying property in Spain what they probably won’t be aware of is that if the purchase price of the property is below the Spanish tax office valuation of the property (Valor Fiscal) then the sales tax they will pay will be on the Valor Fiscal valuation and not the purchase price of the property and since the Fiscal Valor was calculated when property prices were at their height during the boom this means that although people may be getting what they thought was a bargain property they will end up paying a 10% sales tax not on the sale price of the property but on the much higher Valor Fiscal valuation which means they will saddled with a huge tax demand that will come out of the blue and leave the buyer in a state of shock and disbelief.

    For instance, say that you buy a property that was worth 100,000 euros at the height of the boom but you manage to pay just 10,000 euros for the property instead, a 90% discount. The Valor Fiscal valuation for the property would have been set to reflect the prices of property at or around the height of the boom and so the Valor Fiscal valuation may well be around the 100,000 euros mark. Therefore, instead of paying the expected 10% sales tax on the purchase price of 10,000 euros, which will be 1,000 euros, because the purchase price was below the Valor Fiscal you will instead end up having to pay the 10% sales tax on the Valor Fiscal Valuation which will work out to be 10,000 euros. Can you imagine bagging what you thought was a bargain property for just 10,000 euros and then end up having to cough up 10,000 euros, instead of 1,000 euros, in sales tax to the Spanish Tax authorities. The whole Spanish property market stinks and is a racket and a scam. All Spanish property is fast becoming toxic, you would be better off buying a property in Portugal instead.

  • #111847
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    Over the next few years people will be tempted by the collapse in house prices to come to Spain looking to pick up a bargain property in the Sun only to discover that there is a sting in the tail in that although they will be aware that there is a 10% sales tax to pay when buying property in Spain what they probably won’t be aware of is that if the purchase price of the property is below the Spanish tax office valuation of the property (Valor Fiscal) then the sales tax they will pay will be on the Valor Fiscal valuation and not the purchase price of the property and since the Fiscal Valor was calculated when property prices were at their height during the boom this means that although people may be getting what they thought was a bargain property they will end up paying a 10% sales tax not on the sale price of the property but on the much higher Valor Fiscal valuation which means they will saddled with a huge tax demand that will come out of the blue and leave the buyer in a state of shock and disbelief.

    For instance, say that you buy a property that was worth 100,000 euros at the height of the boom but you manage to pay just 10,000 euros for the property instead, a 90% discount. The Valor Fiscal valuation for the property would have been set to reflect the prices of property at or around the height of the boom and so the Valor Fiscal valuation may well be around the 100,000 euros mark. Therefore, instead of paying the expected 10% sales tax on the purchase price of 10,000 euros, which will be 1,000 euros, because the purchase price was below the Valor Fiscal you will instead end up having to pay the 10% sales tax on the Valor Fiscal Valuation which will work out to be 10,000 euros. Can you imagine bagging what you thought was a bargain property for just 10,000 euros and then end up having to cough up 10,000 euros, instead of 1,000 euros, in sales tax to the Spanish Tax authorities. The whole Spanish property market stinks and is a racket and a scam. All Spanish property is fast becoming toxic, you would be better off buying a property in Portugal instead.

    Hi jakesuper. If you are going to try and present yourself as knowledgable about the market, get your facts rights.
    the fiscal valuations have/had nothing to do with the boom.

    nor is ‘sales tax’ 10%. unless you are refering to new builds, and that starts next year.

  • #111848
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    He is just repeating what we have been discussing on another thread 🙄 Everything he writes we have seen before…Jakeoldnews!

    Agree about the Russian rubbish…it’s been going around since about 2004. Sources are all Estate agents, file it along with Disney stories :mrgreen:

  • #111849
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    He is just repeating what we have been discussing on another thread 🙄 Everything he writes we have seen before…Jakeoldnews!

    Agree about the Russian rubbish…it’s been going around since about 2004. Sources are all Estate agents, file it along with Disney stories :mrgreen:

    No, the evidence from people living in Spain (in this and in other forums) is that you are incorrect. Russians, and other East Europeans are buying up property.

    Why? Heavens knows. Perhaps things aren’t as cosy out east as we think.

    But I’m choosing to believe posters on this forum (I understand the guy who bought in Barcelona has seen this happen) and on other expat forums, who tell us the Russians are buying up properties. Don’t believe either myself or Katy, who no longer lives in Spain. Believe the people who live there.

    Personally I doubt it will be in numbers great enough to make any difference to the property market. The Chinese too have moved in a big way into Spanish cities over the years, but again it hasn’t stopped the fall in prices.

  • #111850
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Agree about the Russian rubbish…it’s been going around since about 2004. Sources are all Estate agents, file it along with Disney stories :mrgreen:

    I disagree. The stats clearly show an increase in russian buyers. But no where near enough to make any sort of significant difference. I think the figure for last year (2011) was a bit under 2,000 russian buyers (approx 1,600).

    Brits about 4,500
    french about 2,100
    german about 1,700
    italy and sweden about 1,200 each
    norway and belgiun about 1,100 each
    holland about 700
    denmark, finland, ireland and switzerland couple hundred each.

    So the russian figure is not that impressive by comparison, but it all helps.

    I do agree though Katy that the ‘russians are coming’ is being used as a bit of a marketing gimmick.

    Even with the less than ideal exchange rate, brits still dominate the foreign buyers.

  • #111851
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    An article here (in Spanish) stating that the Russians have supplanted the Brits as the biggest buyers of property on the Costa Blanca. 40% of sales in the last year were from people from the former Soviet Union (which of course isn’t just Russians, it includes the Ukraine, Belarus etc). Will the trend continue? Who knows? Could be just a passing fad.

    http://www.diarioinformacion.com/alicante/2012/07/22/rusos-relevan-britanicos-inversores-inmobiliarios-provincia/1277349.html

  • #111852
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I may no longer live in Spain but I have a lot of friends and relatives there (a couple who are agents!). They aren’t cyber friends and stuff I get from links 🙄 I did not say there were NO Russians buying just as Fuengi says not a deluge.

  • #111853
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    An article here (in Spanish) stating that the Russians have supplanted the Brits as the biggest buyers of property on the Costa Blanca. 40% of sales in the last year were from people from the former Soviet Union (which of course isn’t just Russians, it includes the Ukraine, Belarus etc). Will the trend continue? Who knows? Could be just a passing fad.

    http://www.diarioinformacion.com/alicante/2012/07/22/rusos-relevan-britanicos-inversores-inmobiliarios-provincia/1277349.html

    ALthough that is better than the figure I posted, I should point out that the information source of this information “Esta fue la principal conclusión de la cumbre de promotores inmobiliarios alicantinos y rusos que se desarrolló el pasado fin de semana en un hotel de la Marina Baixa”.

    Whereas the info I gave came from the INE.

    Playing devils advocate though, if many of these Russians bought in company names, it my not be reflected when analyzing the nationalities.

  • #111854
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    I may no longer live in Spain but I have a lot of friends and relatives there (a couple who are agents!). They aren’t cyber friends and stuff I get from links 🙄 I did not say there were NO Russians buying just as Fuengi says not a deluge.

    sorry katy, got the impression you meant no russian buyers. easy to take things too literally on the net

  • #111857
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fuengi,

    Look at what you can buy in Fuengirola now, a fantastic 3 bedroom apartment for just £40,004 (€50,400), it was originally on sale for 118,464 Euros, representing a 57% discount:

    3 bedroom apartment for sale in Fuengirola for £40,004 (€50,400)

    Another 3 bedroom apartment for sale in Fuengirola for just £35,280 (€44,100 euros), it was originally on sale for 121,100 euros, representing a 63% discount::

    3 bedroom apartment for sale in Fuengirola for £35,280 (€44,100)

    It must make your heart sink when you see such cheap properties for sale in Fuengirola, particularly if you already own a property in Fuengirola.

    I would buy that property right now but I think that I might be in an even stronger position and get an even better deal when Spain finally drops out of the Euro and adopts the worthless Peseta. I would love to buy a Spanish property in worthless Pesetas!

  • #111858
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    Fuengi,

    Look at what you can buy in Fuengirola now, a fantastic 3 bedroom apartment for just £40,004 (€50,400), it was originally on sale for 118,464 Euros, representing a 57% discount:

    3 bedroom apartment for sale in Fuengirola for £40,004 (€50,400)

    It must make your heart sink when you see such cheap properties for sale in Fuengirola right on the Costa-del-sol.

    On the contrary, prospective buyers will be over the moon.
    I agree it’s going to be very depressing for those who bought towards the peak.

  • #111859
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    hardly fantastic properties in good locations …. i would have thought an international financial guru would have been looking for something more suited to there position in life !

  • #111861
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    There are a few newer shops in Barcelona that cater to Russians. And possibly significant of nothing, the atico I just purchased was owned by a Russian. He used the atico as a vacation home for 6 years. His real estate agent spoke Russian and seemed to specialize in Russian buyers/sellers.

  • #111863
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    Fuengi,

    It must make your heart sink when you see such cheap properties for sale in Fuengirola, particularly if you already own a property in Fuengirola.

    I would buy that property right now but I think that I might be in an even stronger position and get an even better deal when Spain finally drops out of the Euro and adopts the worthless Peseta. I would love to buy a Spanish property in worthless Pesetas!

    oh I do own in Fuengirola. And at a price that I have still yet to see match based on location, sqm price, etc…
    So yes i am a property owner, and have a family and 2 children and turning 33 this year. AND british. I must be one of those who pushed you out of the market! (your welcome spain).

    I did pay more than the figures your showing, but then you are showing lesser value properties. 5 bed townhouse, 200m2 built, 40m2 of terrace/patio. small gated complex, about 700 metres from beach (8 minutes walk), oh and parking.

    I think you misunderstand the dinamics of how the property market in Spain (and areas like the Costa del Sol) work. Those properties are unlikely to sell even at the moment due to the area and what potential buyers are looking for.

    If they of interest to your as a holiday home, and you honestly think they are ‘fantastic’ best of luck to you. But don’t expect any future increases even when the market turns round.
    a 3 bedroom apartment at 65, is going to average at around 50 usable space. Both properties are located in working class areas, so do not attract ‘second’ home buyers unfortunately as they do not tick the boxes of what they are looking for. Not are they interesting as buy to lets.
    Don’t confuse cheap with good value

  • #111865
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @peterk wrote:

    hardly fantastic properties in good locations …. i would have thought an international financial guru would have been looking for something more suited to there position in life !

    they are cheap properties, in ‘low value’ locations. the question with these sorts of properties is “who would buy this and why?”

  • #111878
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Agree, they are dumps. I recognise one, built in the 1970’s and they are crumbling. Probably need another 30,000 for a full reform, electrics, re-tiling etc. Your neighbours will be poor immigrants, druggies who are renting.

  • #111880
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    the only thing that matters to jakey is the price !!
    location .. facalaties .. neighbours .. infastructure etc are of no interest at all …. clearly the postings of an international property expert !( NOT) .

  • #111940
    Profile photo of elizabethjohn
    elizabethjohn
    Participant

    Thank you everyone
    some great advice there 🙂

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