What Effect On Spanish Property Prices, If,

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This topic contains 31 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Chris McCarthy Chris McCarthy 5 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #56053
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    (1) The Eurozone adopted a two tier Euro and Spain’s Euro was in the lower tier (how much lower?)

    (2) Spain reverted to the Peseta having left the Euro and likely exchange rate, or devalued?

    (3) Spanish Banks unloaded on to the market All their holdings/exposure in residential property in Spain and elsewhere (eg S. America)?

    Would be interested to hear what you all think, I know any or all are for now hyperthetical, but the above are often mentioned. 🙄

  • #102304
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    My thoughts are…..

    1) The Eurozone adopted a two tier Euro and Spain’s Euro was in the lower tier (how much lower?)

    – The Club Med Euro would drop by about 30% in comparison to the Deutsche Euro. This would effectively devalue property by that amount overnight. Not too bad for the people who live in Spain, painful for those expats who own property there.

    (2) Spain reverted to the Peseta having left the Euro and likely exchange rate, or devalued?

    – Pretty well the same as answer to 1)

    (3) Spanish Banks unloaded on to the market All their holdings/exposure in residential property in Spain and elsewhere

    At the actual value they could unload them rather than that which is currently on their books they would probably all collapse with the possible exception of BBVA and Santander. The damage this would do to the worlds banking system would match or exceed that of the subprime crisis. Property values would probably drop by over 50%.

  • #102305
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Your answer Brian is pretty much what I’ve thought would happen too, all a bit scary really for Spain.

    I wonder which if any of those scenarios would happen and when, and if this were true, it doesn’t bode well for investing in Spanish property for some while if British?

    Portugal is almost certainly going to ask for a bail-out withing a couple of months with possible implications for ‘who is next’?

  • #102307
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    On balance I think the Euro will survive as is although there is a significant risk (33% to my mind) that it will collapse.

    For it to survive the European leaders, both creditors and debtors, need to get their act together. They are painfully slow at doing this but there are some signs of movement. Germany has indicated that it may not oppose an expansion of the rescue fund. Both China and Japan have committed to buy substantial amounts of European bonds. In short, not all the news is as bad as the likes of Ambrose Pritchard-Evans would have you believe.

    I think that many both in and out of the Eurozone, in powerful and in basket case economies have now looked at the consequences of such failure and are pulling back from the precipice.

    If it does survive it will be a substantially stronger currency. Should it fail I dread to think what would happen.

  • #102313
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    If your hypothetical scenarios came to pass Angie it would have a catastrophic effect on property values for existing owners. One the other hand it would in my opinion kick start the Spanish economy and the property market.
    Spanish sovereign debt would be unsustainable because it’s in Euros and serviced in Euros……The burden could break Spain and the country would default.
    Spanish exports on the other hand would be very competitive in world markets, property would look very cheap to almost everyone and there would eventually be an economic bonanza for the Spanish people.
    The reason I am so confident of that is because it did actually happen once.
    In the late seventies during a depression in the Spanish economy property was in the doldrums. Spain allowed the Peseta to devalue against the DM.
    The result was a period of relatively short booms in Spain until the Peseta was pegged to the DM then back came recession.
    It’s a ‘no brainer’ really. Spain cannot afford to be in the Euro, neither can Ireland or Portugal.
    The principal problem for these countries is politics, and the European project not economics. Like consumers, countries were encouraged to spend and borrow beyond their means.
    Lenders handed over the cash because being in the EZ gave them credibility and triple A status.
    Far Eastern states such as China and Japan are currently riding to rescue the Euro from collapse. It’s in their interests so to do.
    It will not help Spain or the EZ because the currency will strengthen. That’s the last thing they need right now.
    Unless things change the pain in Spain and elsewhere will last for at least a generation.

  • #102316
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hello, my thoughts for what its worth
    1 & 2 I am not sure that the fall in property prices would be that severe, at least not in a medium term perspective, the reason being that foreigners are such a dominating group. Many of the properties in “prime locations” will be priced in local currency, all things equal the foreign buyer would be able to pay up in devalued euros or pseteas. Some properties in unattractive locations will fall, but that would probably have been the case anyway. If the currency were to be floated (the pseta case) rates could be lowered wich would have a positive effect on the economy, currency would drop further though. As you say I think leaving the Euro is unrealistic, but the possibility is certainly greater than it was a year ago. Another issue would be how to treat mortgages; would your mortgage in a spanish bank be converted to psetas? And what would happen to the Euro mortgage in a UK bank for instance?
    3. No clue, but I think that the banks at this stage would welcome negative interest rates which could help prop up property values, that would of course require an adjustment of the currency.

  • #102326
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I understand your reasoning logan why such a scenario would eventually kick-start Spain’s economy and property industry, because people could then have confidence in buying property, holidays, businesses at such a new lower level, absolute bargains then.

    The interim though as you all generally say, would be catastrophic for existing owners, the Banks also, presumably, but now does not seem a good time for Brits to buy until most of this Sovereign Debt problem is resolved in Eurozone. 🙄

  • #102333
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    It would equally be catastrophic for existing investments and bank deposits.
    Fortunately it is not going to happen. Japan and China are investing billions in Spain’s sovereign debt as well as other EZ peripheral nations.
    There is simply too much at stake for the European Union to allow the Euro to fail.

  • #102334
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    Angie

    I also doubt the likelihood of a two tier eurozone or the reversion to the peseta. Although you can never say never, at this stage it looks unlikely in the short to medium term. Even informed eurosceptics feel it is unlikely.

    If it did happen I doubt whether it would be implemented in a planned and orderley way. More likely it would probably arise on the back of a major default, which would shake the financial markets to the core including our own. In such circumstances I doubt whether many people would be looking to invest in anything and the value of stocks/shares and housing in the UK and Spain would probably plunge.

    Richard

  • #102342
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If Spain reverted to the Peseta, property in Spain would suddenly be a lot cheaper in other currencies like Dollars or Pounds. However, I would expect prime coastal property to quickly price itself in a hard currency. There might be a window of opportunity to grab good stuff cheap, but it wouldn’t last long.

    There is still a lot of international interest in prime property on the Spanish coast.

    But the fact is, it’s just not going to happen. It would be too traumatic for the whole of Europe.

    The EU and EMU are far from perfect, but my father was alive and remembers a time when Europe was engulfed in total war. It was not that long ago. Anything is better than that. This financial crisis is nothing in comparison.

    In the history of mankind we are living in a golden age. I would argue there has never been a better time or place to be alive than post-war Europe. Let’s hope it stays that way. Spain crashing out of the Euro would not help.

  • #102344
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In the history of mankind we are living in a golden age. I would argue there has never been a better time or place to be alive than post-war Europe.

    Here here Mark.

    Many eurosceptics tend to forget about the two civil wars that tore this continent apart in the first half of the century. Or that the European Iron and Steel Federation, which became the EEC then the EU, was set up specifically to avoid such an Event happening again.

    Europe, specifically the Euro, may have its faults but put in context we are indeed very fortunate to live here and now.

  • #102348
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    The graphic, gigantic, European bailout fund
    Posted by Tracy Alloway on Jan 13 10:58.

    An illustration by Citigroup, who reckon Europe’s Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) needs to be increased to at least €1,000bn to cover peripheral funding needs:

    http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/01/13/458296/the-graphic-gigantic-european-bailout-fund/

  • #102350
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Interesting graphic Peter.
    It was also interesting reading the phoney euphoria which surrounded the bond auction in Portugal yesterday. More unaffordable debt in a country who’s growth expectations at best will be under 2% in good times. Paying just under 7% to service their debt and any fool can see disaster ahead.
    The bond auction was heavily oversubscribed. No wonder when you can borrow a couple of million at 1.5% and receive almost 7% return. Free money. Free that is to the investor. The Portuguese will be paying for it for generations.
    In Ireland every man woman and child is paying £1000 a month to service the governments debt mountain through taxation.
    These are the realities of Euro membership.

  • #102351
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    The euro won’t fail, they can’t let it. They have all been lending to one another. Read that Spain holds a lot of Portuguese toxic, likewise the UK holds a lot of Spanish debt….they are all in it together…all sailing down shit creek. The UK should withdraw, the EU is not our biggest exporter.

    Just been announced that Spain’s bonds were oversubscribed…at higher interest rates. Now they only have to pay it back 😯

  • #102352
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Reading between the lines, apart from high interest rates on Gov’t Bonds, why are the Chinese, Japanese and Uncle Tom (Cobbly) so keen to support Portugal, Spain and the Euro?

    Because they are scared sh


    s, far more worried about the effects of letting Sovereign Debt get out of hand because of their own interests and worldwide trade. There was a time when such current supporters would never have got involved. No-one talks anymore of millions or 100’s of millions, it’s billions and more. It’s all about greed and self-interest now, plus the Chinese especially whilst growing so large economically, appear to want more say not only in Africa, but now it seems the World including Europe.

    Was it Napoleon (not sure) who warned of far Eastern domination? 🙄

  • #102353
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    We were in Kenya last year and close to the Tanzanian border the Chinese had bought large areas of land. Lot of local opposition to it as it had all been de-forested and left bare. (It is home to the rare Columbus monkey.) The Chinese were heavily investing in the Congo when we lived there. Although Africa is rapidly turning to Islam so don’t know how well that will work!

  • #102354
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Daily Express running an “out of Europe” campaign. It’ll never happen, too many politicians on the gravy train.

    http://www.express.co.uk/web/europecrusade

  • #102355
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @brianc_li wrote:

    Many eurosceptics tend to forget about the two civil wars that tore this continent apart in the first half of the century. Or that the European Iron and Steel Federation, which became the EEC then the EU, was set up specifically to avoid such an Event happening again.
    Europe, specifically the Euro, may have its faults but put in context we are indeed very fortunate to live here and now.

    I agree with Mark and Brian’s assertion that this period in history is far better than the past and that living in Europe is a sort of ‘golden age’. However that has nothing to do with the European Union. In fact I would go as far to say that it’s happened despite the EU.
    The imposition of a guaranteed system of democracy on Germany supervised by the allies at the end of World War 11 has much more to do with creating a peaceful Europe than any EU treaties. Also the post war boom in world trade and removal of trade tariffs has increased prosperity. Greater prosperity brings improved education, social welfare and healthcare.
    The European Union has done nothing to create that except remove trading tariffs in Europe which would have gone anyway with the advent of globalisation.
    The European Union in my opinion is an obstacle to prosperity. Creating more and more unnecessary regulation,taxation and laws which are simply potty. aka: Human rights legislation and the Schengen accords which removed boarder controls.
    I believe in small government not centralised big government. Governments should interfere as little as possible in peoples lives. The EU seem to want to legislate and control every aspect of human life and the way we think.
    The EU and federalism, which in reality is it’s real aim, is a political project bound to fail eventually.
    It’s seriously damaging smaller states economies and forcing their populations into debt burdened penury.

  • #102356
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Whilst we agree on much Logan, this is one of those ideological issues that separate us. just as it does many other people.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this. 😀

  • #102357
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    It is a a divisive issue and one which bores most people to death. So the Union and their treaties carry on with total indifference from the population. The EU has ended up as a kind of default situation which suits European Federalist well. Any serious opposition comes from fringe groups such a UKIP and Le Front Nationale in France. Debate about it’s existence gets stifled and dismissed as extreme.
    Generations of Europeans have now known nothing else and as such tolerate the system as the status quo. Federalist know it’s far easier to sell their political ambitions to this generation than the last.
    The EU is an undemocratic, unaccountable, unworkable institution and the sooner it fails the better.

  • #102358
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Daily Express running an “out of Europe” campaign. It’ll never happen, too many politicians on the gravy train.

    http://www.express.co.uk/web/europecrusade

    And the Daily Express said:

    But Britain is a land apart: a precious stone set in the silver sea, as Shakespeare so evocatively put it; a realm with a glorious island story stretching back a thousand years, with links to every continent and a language taken up throughout the world.

    Oh… do me a favour! Jingoistic rubbish. What nobody else has a rich heritage and culture? Many nations go way back further than a thousand years.

    We need to get over ourselves, the world is a much different place, and if Germany is having a fantastic growth rate – what was it announced yesterday 3.6% growth last year – to become a booming economy in these times, and doing so well out of the Euro, why aren’t we?

    My vote says find a way to dump sterling and get into the euro, on great terms and get agitating for the changes that suit us and work for us, sovereignty is an overrated ideology in my view. What is wrong with The United States of Europe exactly? What is so great about UK PLC exactly?

    And as for being a great trading nation…. hello, what do we trade these days, is it not the City of London that generates 25% of the national income, but they aint manufacturing or producing anything, except a potential for even bigger disasters and exposure.

    Out of Europe my backside. Get further in, unless you really want to follow the ideology and mentality of UKIP, oh dear, the EU isn’t perfect, it has a long way to go, but really, being isolationist is not the answer. Having a say, forming alliances, developing the argument, that is the answer. Being central to the most effective trading area, wealth generator and best place to live out of the United States of America, the one day United States of Asia, and or Africa, is the way to look at it.

    Or we got back to the barbarian, hostile, cold, edge of the world and good for nothing Britain as viewed only a thousand years ago by everyone. And will be there again a few short years ahead if we leave the EU.

    And all of this rot that it was only because we had sterling that we were able to determine our own future, we could have, would have a stronger position than Germany – who don’t forget only a decade or so ago took in East Germany, had we got fully behind the EU and the Euro, we could and should have been the dominant economy, but so long as we are half in, half out we won’t know what we are about.

    Half hearted endeavour never produced anything other than a half assed result.

    It may interest you to know that a healthy number of Germans question the whole issue of Europe as well, but they get on with it, get over themselves and make a huge success out of it, and we have an equal the opportunity to do the same, but oh no, lets all fall that Firage fellow right over the cliff edge.

  • #102360
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    It is not extremist or isolationist to want Britain to control it’s own economy. Britain can manage quite well on it’s own and part of an economic area of Europe.
    What I object to is the federalisation of Europe. What is wrong with sovereign nations trading without tariffs and being in control of their own economies?

  • #102362
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I don’t agree with most of what you say Chris. I added my name, not because of the jingoist language or because I support the nutters in UKIP.

    I am not going to pull apart what you are saying. The EU has been good for France and Germany not so the rest of southern Europe as we are seeing now. There is concensus amongst all the business papers that the union is in a mess. The UK buys far more from Europe than they sell. They have neglected the emerging markets like India, left the caribbean Islands adrift by buying bananas from French owned plantations etc.

    The UK is not in a good position but if it had been part of the Eurozone it would have been a lot worse. As Cameron said today, there is no question of adopting the euro on his watch, neither will the UK be agreeing to any further fusion…hope he keeps his word.

    Joining the euro would probably see all the agents closing their doors. The British led the buying boom before but in the euro few would be able to afford to buy anything. Think Spain with 20% plus unemployment and hardly any manufacturing base!

  • #102386
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    I don’t agree with most of what you say Chris.

    I don’t agree with most of what I say either, my argument on this will bounce all over the place, I just don’t think a balancing act is a good idea, either we are in, or we are out, that would be my idea, not decades of dithering of whether we should be in or out.

    I don’t have the knowledge or the ability to expound on the finite economic argument, but I have a gut feeling that had we embraced the situation of being at the heart of Europe and standing alongside Germany, we would be in a heck of a lot better place than separating from the EU or being seen to be wanting out constantly.

    And as for the southern economies and their rather backward status, and their non too clever regimes, or should we just call half of them the corrupt entities they often are, then standing alongside Germany and dictating the course of events, we would have had a heck of an influence to bring them up to a northern European standard in poltical, social and economic terms.

    I don’t want to go back to yesterday, having to change from Drachmas, to Escudos, to Francs and the Mark as I travel within Europe, or as I buy from around Europe, the Euro is a fabulous boon now that I can travel and trade within a vast area and what is it 20 odd nations, using the same currency. It is wonderful. The Union can be wonderful.

    But only if we are going to join the party fully. And do we not have poor economic regions and subsidised areas in our own country? I went to college in Newcastle for several years, fabulous place and area, but now completely devastated, and was watching a programme about Middlesborough and Belfast recently that talked about how jobs in those areas was something like a ratio of 3 or 4 from 5 people working in the public sector, we have problem regions, Europe has problem regions, but it also has people’s such as Estonia, Latvia etc busting to want to be a part of the project.

    And we want to walk away? We want to go back to single currencies? Fine. Do it. Tell me what it is really going to be like?
    Tell me how we will be viewed and what our standing in the world will be? We don’t have any gun boats for Palmerston to send up river any more.

    We have troops out in Afghanistan however, supporting America, but how friendly is this American President to Britain, to its interests and special relationship? Is he on our economic side? Does he believe in the UK plc?

    Let’s weigh it up, better in or better out?

    Get over the currency issue, it is not going to fall apart, it is probably going to get stronger. If we went all in, became a partner for good and all, a force for change as we see it, we would be well received.

    Britain is going to seem like an awfully small minded, lonely, disparate place if we decide to get out and go our own way.

    Our children don’t know the old Britain we do, they see the world as a village, they not interested in Queen, Sterling and Country, we need to get properly on board, get fully integrated, I really appreciated the argument about what a better place we live in now, and what a world my parents and grandparents had to live through in terms of two World Wars.

    The world is a much, much different place, a far, far better place, and perhaps the technological revolution has only just begun, we need to join the party wholeheartedly. We need to wake up to this I think, we as a single country are not so clever, not so vital and will have very little influence on our own.

  • #102399
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    Oh… do me a favour! Jingoistic rubbish. What nobody else has a rich heritage and culture? Many nations go way back further than a thousand years.

    We need to get over ourselves, the world is a much different place, and if Germany is having a fantastic growth rate – what was it announced yesterday 3.6% growth last year – to become a booming economy in these times, and doing so well out of the Euro, why aren’t we?

    My vote says find a way to dump sterling and get into the euro, on great terms and get agitating for the changes that suit us and work for us, sovereignty is an overrated ideology in my view. What is wrong with The United States of Europe exactly? What is so great about UK PLC exactly?

    And as for being a great trading nation…. hello, what do we trade these days, is it not the City of London that generates 25% of the national income, but they aint manufacturing or producing anything, except a potential for even bigger disasters and exposure.

    I’m a big fan of the Euro, I’d like the UK to join (in fact I’ve invested in Poland because it plans to join, put back at least five years though) but there is absolutely no chance in hell it will join. The Euro is fundamentally flawed and contains too many crooked nations who are living off their northern European neighbours. There isn’t any support for joining the Euro from anyone in the UK and being outside has been proven to be a brilliant move.

    I’d go as far as to say UK in the Euro would have definitely cause its collapse, the pound save the UK from default.

    The UK is one of the biggest trading nations in the world, still is. Compared to the USA, it exports three times as much in relation to GDP. UK is a major economy and a major exporter.

  • #102402
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    If the European Union was the wonderland described by Chris McCarthy why has it so many political difficulties and serious economic problems? Why does Norway and Switzerland keep out?
    The sense shown by Britain in keeping out of the Euro has almost certainly save the country from collapse.
    The peripheral EZ states were encouraged to spend money they did not have because of their status within the EU and they are still doing it. Storing up problems for generations to come and having no control over the management of their economies.
    Just take a little time to look at the huge extent of indebtedness in countries like Italy and others. The crisis has only just begun.
    Belgium has not had a government for 7 months because they cannot agree on anything. Its a mess not a paradise.
    I am not one of those who hanker back to a time was Britain was great. I want Europe to move forward together but not as a homogenised phoney federal state.

  • #102411
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    I don’t think it is a wonderland out there Logan.

    But I do think that Germany is in a far stronger position than we are, and they had to cope with the unification of East and West Germany only a couple of decades ago, and they are managing the whole European project today, I believe that an alliance with Germany and leadership in Europe would have put us in a far better position, and still would if we were committed to full on and intergrated union. That’s all.

    And I don’t think the UK is in such a strong position today. In fact there is a very good argument to say it is in a real mess as well, we have our own very real and serious economic problems do we not?

    What I am saying is, lets either get all the way in, or get all the way out. And if the latter then take a look at what getting all the way out means, and then I think the rational mind would say that’s not a good option on any level.

    But we don’t, we are little Englanders, we think we can sit on the fence and do neither, and succeed at that. And correct me if I am wrong but do Switzerland and Norway combined do they come to population of our capital city? They are not a good comparison I think.

    However, I fully concede I don’t have the financial acumen for the economic argument, but I have I think a right to my gut feeling, and my gut says if we could get past ourselves, it is pretty obvious that we would be far better off playing a full and active role of leadership.

    Or perhaps we can sit at the edge of the playground hoarding our bag of sweets, and when we grow up wonder why nobody is our friend.

  • #102415
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    do Switzerland and Norway combined do they come to population of our capital city? They are not a good comparison I think.

    Oh dear, the point of that example was that these two countries have strong enough economies to remain outside the EU. It has nothing to do with size of populations or GDP. Countries join the shackles of the EU because they need a collective economic prop.
    My contention is that the UK is economically strong enough for a variety of reasons not to need the support of a federal Europe lead by Germany and France.
    I repeat that as a trading block the EU works. It does not and never will work as a federal state.
    I read all your posts Chris on this and other threads and your continual optimism leads me to believe you must inhabit a different planet to the rest of us.
    I don’t mean to cause offence but I simply don’t recognise the bubble you inhabit.

  • #102421
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    the only way i would like to see the uk join the euro is if it becomes a 2 tier system with germany france and the uk in one section and the rest in the other.
    if we pulled out of the eu would it really harm us that much we wouldn’t have to pay into it which would save us money,we wouldn’t have to keep up with all the bull s–t and red tape that is thrust upon us costing us money to implament.
    Would it effect our exports or would those in the eu still need what we are selling and as long as the prices stayed competertive still buy it.
    The most worrying thing i see is that the whole of europe and the usa are massively in debt to China and Japan all those bonds they are buying soon they will own us then where will there political asperations take them

  • #102469
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:
    I don’t mean to cause offence but I simply don’t recognise the bubble you inhabit.

    It seems to me that the relative strength or otherwise of a countries economy is much to the general ebb and flow, I remember Britain once being the sick man of Europe, I think the Japanese almighty economy went through what 10 years of stagnation, you pick a moment in time Logan, it all comes and it goes Logan, look at poor old Celtic Tiger Ireland am trying to look at a bigger / longer picture. Am not saying it is right but it is a better prospect than you have I think.

    You also seem to me to be very self interested, and highly negative toward things that don’t fit your picture, and I find that a depressing bubble to see you in, but likewise I read all your posts and would not wish to offer offence.

  • #102475
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @Chris McCarthy wrote:

    You also seem to me to be very self interested, and highly negative toward things that don’t fit your picture, and I find that a depressing bubble to see you in, but likewise I read all your posts and would not wish to offer offence.

    Chris, I don’t know about other people, but I see the world as a great place now there is a crash. This is the ‘happy time’ for Bears, when there is easy pickings to be made on falling asset prices. Only a fool invests when prices rise, this is how it works. I missed my opportunity to buy at the bottom of the last crash and I won’t make the same mistake again.

    There is always losers in any market and everybody is sell interested, your complaint is that actually, his self interest isn’t the same as your. Sorry about that.

  • #102606
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @peterhun wrote:

    Chris, I don’t know about other people, but I see the world as a great place now there is a crash. This is the ‘happy time’ for Bears, when there is easy pickings to be made on falling asset prices. Only a fool invests when prices rise, this is how it works. I missed my opportunity to buy at the bottom of the last crash and I won’t make the same mistake again.

    There is always losers in any market and everybody is sell interested, your complaint is that actually, his self interest isn’t the same as your. Sorry about that.

    I take your point, but I hope I am not complaining that his self interest isn’t the same as mine, if I gave that impression then that is my mistake, and would be a stupid one to make on my behalf in what was a perfectly reasonable discourse of opposing views.

    I think Logan, and pretty much everyone on here makes some excellent points, sometimes I even think we are all saying the same thing, just in different ways, I actually think almost everyone on here has something really important to say.

    I also hope that over the years – some almost five that I just realised I have been on here for – that I have agreed with much of the negativity also, but then Logan has said much that is also positive. It is a conundrum hey!

    I might have a post later today or in the week about this Bear Market thing, and the time to buy though, you can’t beat a bit of up the market talking! But it would make more sense if I just stick to talking about what is in the market, what is happening and what is working, and hope that this is seen not so much as self interested, up the market talking, just a view from someone on the ground that is a counter balance. I think and hope that is fair, so long as it is truthful and straightforward, though heaven help me, I have forever struggled with keeping it brief!!

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