UK/foreign reg cars on CDS

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This topic contains 58 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of katy katy 7 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #54469
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    Anonymous
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    With police always on the roads/roundabouts these days (seems more than normal) I was just wondering if anyone had any first hand experience of whether or not they are paying any/more attention to cars still on foreign plates when they shouldn’t be etc.

  • #87508
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    Anonymous
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    think they go through phases of stopping/fining for certain things

    I have been stopped 3 times and breathalised in my Spanish car, each time Ive not had a drop (no jokes please about woman drivers !) not once did they ask for my paperwork

    then other times, they will be on the round about nicking people for speeding

    was told that they have to hit their targets so will slurge on whatever if the figures are low that particular month 😯

  • #87653
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    Anonymous
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    Hi JJB,

    Round my way (Alicante) the police have been going around the developments and placing notices on cars that they think have been there longer than 6 months on English plates with a warning about being fined etc etc. Its the first time I have seen this in 20 years there. They must all have been told to raise as much money for the government by way of fines.

    Bernie

  • #87655
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    Anonymous
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    Thank goodness the police are (at last) taking this action. Uk plated cars that have been in Spain for more than 6 months won’t have insurance cover. There are alot of cars around the Alicante area that aren’t taxed, so no insurance & no MOT.

  • #87661
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    katy
    Spectator

    Of course all the Spanish cars are insured 🙄

    To clamp down on foreign cars on the CDS they would have to double the Police Force (lots of German cars too).

    I owned UK cars here for 8 years (relative in the trade) no problem and was stopped a few times. I wrote off one car in an accident and was paid out. If my relative was still in the business I would probably still be doing so.

  • #87662
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    Anonymous
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    rob6578.
    I see where you are coming from & agree with you to a very large extent. I however feel that the authorities should look at the following:

    1) Why a EU registered car in one country cannot be kept in another EU for as long as the owner wishes to do so. Further why cant a British registered be insured in which ever Country the owners want it to Insure outside Britain. Apart from Insurance Industry protecting its market.

    2) Why in this example an Spanish ITV/MOT is not acceptable on a British registered car

  • #87664
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    Anonymous
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    I think the MOT expiring is one of the reasons so many expats think they just won’t bother with any of it until they get caught.

    Many expats are faced with driving all the way back to the UK just to renew the MOT, in order to be able to continue taxing and insuring the car. I’m just about to embark on a 3000km round trip back to the UK to do just that, all because the Brit. Gov won’t accept any other (EU) MOT but their own. Tax and insurance can always be done by post via a relative/friend so is not a problem like the MOT.

    Incidentally, the Brit. Government’s stance if your MOT does run out while ‘abroad’ in the EU is: because the car is consequently illegal on the road (because of course a French/Spanish etc MOT is not good enough 🙄 ) – the vehicle should be towed back to the UK, according to one motorist website.

    How much is all this inconvenience to do with them simply not wanting to miss out on all the VAT amounts on every Brit. cars’ MOT’s?

  • #87680
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    Anonymous
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    What the about the little loophole that says so long as your car is booked in for an MOT, it is legal on the road and your insurance will cover you? Admittedly not in Spain, but I bought a car in Colchester with no MOT, booked it in for the next day at a garage in Leeds and drove it home, all legally (at the time, don’t know if the law has been changed?). I think it is designed to be used for small distances, like just down the road, but no distance is/ was specified.

    Mark

  • #87699
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    Anonymous
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    Charlie wrote:

    “I think the MOT expiring is one of the reasons so many expats think they just won’t bother with any of it until they get caught.”

    I agree with these drivers. If the laws enacted are totally impractical and far from reality, designed to extract taxes than it defeats its purpose and public will start ignoring it. I am talking here of law abiding public.

    “Many expats are faced with driving all the way back to the UK just to renew the MOT,”

    Why, do they have to do this. It is totally insane. I would have a Spanish MOT, to show my sense of responsibility or if I am in CDS, I will take it to Gibraltar.

    ” in order to be able to continue taxing”

    Why, would you Tax a car that off UK roads.

    “and insuring the car. I’m just about to embark on a 3000km round trip back to the UK to do just that, all because the Brit. Gov won’t accept any other (EU) MOT but their own”

    Have a good trip.

    “Tax and insurance can always be done by post via a relative/friend so is not a problem like the MOT.”

    Yes, but would you like to disturb a friend or a neighbour and soon you wont be able to do for some obscure reason such as data protection. DNA matching, iris etc.

    “Incidentally, the Brit. Government’s stance if your MOT does run out while ‘abroad’ in the EU is: because the car is consequently illegal on the road “

    Here lies in the attitude/comparison of the Spanish & English. The Spanish will not tolerate such a situation and Spanish police will look it in a similar manner. If you tell a Spaniard to travel 3000 miles to get its MOT, they will stick two fingers or sorry one finger.

    “”(because of course a French/Spanish etc MOT is not good enough ) – the vehicle should be towed back to the UK, according to one motorist website.”

    Yes, if you have mugs who follow the rules than the faceless authorities will continue in a manner as they live on another planet.

    How much is all this inconvenience to do with them simply not wanting to miss out on all the VAT amounts on every Brit. cars’ MOT’s?

    Not only MOT, HIPs, energy certificate, parking fines, premiums on tenants deposit scheme to name a few. We are being ripped off with total disdain, by simply passing a law without any care as to its implication or practicality.

    I would like to see soon an unemployed person in UK getting a parking ticket due to complex and one sided rules, as he or she would not be able to pay in 14 days the fine will double. Do they than have to rob, sell drugs, bodies etc to pay the fine.

  • #87701
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    Anonymous
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    Always lots of confusion regarding UK cars in Spain, I have just heard that as from Jan 2009 the Spanish authorities are not going to allow right hand drive vehicles to be matriculated. With regards to the MOT situation a car dealer I know buys english plated vehicles without MOT books a test in Dover and drives the vehicles back which is he says perfectly legal. UK vehicles should be taxed otherwise it invalidates the insurance, if your insurance is through an English company. Liberty Seguros and Abbeygate Insurance all issue 12 Mth policies for UK cars so it contradicts the Spanish law that your only supposed to drive for maximum of 6 Mths in any one year. Personally I think that providing your car is completly legal in it’s country of origin you should be able to drive or keep it anywhere in Europe, I thought that was the idea of freedom of movement between EU member states.

  • #87703
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    Anonymous
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    “UK vehicles should be taxed otherwise it invalidates the insurance “

    On the grounds of what ???? Taxing a car or not does not increase the risk of the Insurer. If the common and convenient thinking is that if not taxed than the car is not Insured or MOT. Which may not be the case.

  • #87712
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    Anonymous
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    @shakeel wrote:

    Why, do they have to do this. It is totally insane. I would have a Spanish MOT, to show my sense of responsibility or if I am in CDS, I will take it to Gibraltar.

    Only cars that are registered in Gib can be tested in Gib.

  • #87713
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    Anonymous
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    Hillybilly – same here in Greece. I thought like Shakeel – before my drive back I will at least put the jeep through a Greek MOT to at least show ‘goodwill’ and proof that it IS roadworthy.
    Answer, when I tried? Sorry, only cars with Greek number plates can obtain a Greek MOT! So that leaves someone like me forced to drive back to the UK without any proof of roadworthiness.

    As I live in Devon, that is where I’ve booked my MOT for when I get back because I trust my garage not to sting me for a lot of unnecessary work for it to pass. But Marksfish’s point of the loophole saying so long as your car is booked in for an MOT, it is legal on the road doesn’t hold re. ‘unreasonable distances’. So if I land at Dover without an MOT the only grace the loophole gives me is if I have a MOT booked in Dover within a reasonable time (i.e. 24 hours?).

    As Shakeel says, it is all “totally insane”, the whole system. If I want a MOT (medical), would a Greek one have no validity in the UK????

    There should be a uniform European MOT test certificate with the same ‘test of vehicle’ criteria, accepted in all EU countries.
    But concentrating on a uniform shape of bananas is far more important for these EU twits.

    By the way, last year when leaving UK I inadvertantly stuck my new tax disc behind the old one instead of infront. I drove from UK through several European countries with it like that (showing an out of date tax disc) and no-one picked it up. So am not worrying too much – at least the jeep is taxed and insured.

    If you don’t hear from me after Sunday, I’ve been picked up, thrown in jail and the jeep crushed. 🙁

  • #87737
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    Hilly Billy:
    Yes, I am aware that Gib, MOT is not acceptable. This begs the question is GIB British or not ???

    My, reasoning would again be same if cannot get my MOT is UK than I will go to the nearest EU Country. They can accept or not and I will deal with the consequences of it as I feel that I am being responsible & law abiding within the framework of the Country. Perhaps a case of such nature in the courts will raise issues & things can move away from defining a banana.

    Charlie: I am surprised that Greek would not do an MOT for you. All you are asking them is to provide a service for which they are being paid. They not the custodians or the enforcers of British Law. I am sure that if you go to another MOT testing they will do it.

  • #87741
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    Anonymous
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    Car insurance is only valid if the car is legally on the road: ie: taxed & MOT (if required). Re the MOT, if it has expired, the car can only be driven to a pre-booked appointment as close as possible to the keepers address.

    I have seen the same cars in Nerja over the last 8 years, no tax discs. these cars are not insured or have an MOT.

    Earlier this year I drove from the Uk with a friend in a rented van to Torreveija. We stopped a petrol station outside Alicante for fuel, we then parked in the customer space & went in to have a coffee, when we came out someone had smashed the windscreen & taken the tax disc! This has happened to 3 other people I know, in Cartegena, in Nerja & Mojacar.

    I am delighted the police are taking action, as with everything in Spain, somewhat late.

  • #87748
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    Shakeel – this particular MOT testing station was quite clear (and apparently it’s Greek law)…..only Greek registered cars can be tested and issued a Greek MOT.

    I can totally understand the insurers’ point of view re. why they shouldn’t be obliged to cover a car without a MOT. If for the example the brakes were faulty or the car unroadworthy generally, why should they pay out if it slid into another car or worse, caused a horrific accident involving many cars.

    My only beef is the fact that a MOT issued in Europe is not accepted by other EU countries. They should be, like our driving licences are.

  • #87755
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    Anonymous
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    Not insuring without a MOT is understandable. Not Insuring without a road tax, that was puzzling.

    I, have spoken to a friend of mine in London who works as a loss assessor for Insurance companies i.e. he checks the car at the garages, see the repair cost etc. He had confirmed to me that not having a Tax disc does not invalidate the Insurance. His thinking was on the same line as mine i.e. how not having a tax increase/decreases insurers risk.

  • #87757
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    Anonymous
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    shakeel: No tax (& no MOT) means the car is not legal on the road & that means the insurance is not valid.

  • #87761
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    katy
    Spectator

    I must have had a very reasonable Insurance Company when I was paid 9870 euro for my (UK) car (in Spain). I did think I should have got around 10500 though!

  • #88391
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    Anonymous
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    Just a follow-up re. the MOT’s and having to return to the UK to get it.

    In the past, the government’s stance was if you are taking your car abroad for several months and your MOT is due to expire while you are away, you must obtain a new MOT before you go, even though it will be pre the due date, to ensure you are covered while away.

    Having just obtained my new MOT (23/11), there is now a clause written on it saying:
    To preserve the anniversary of the expiry date the earliest you can present your vehicle for test is 24/10/2009
    i.e. maximum, one month before.

    In other words, now if I wanted to take the car abroad for example in September 2009 for three months, I am not allowed to obtain an MOT before I go and it will run out before I’m back.

    Are there possibly any more ways this Government can come up with to ensure they are totally buggering up people’s lives and ‘driving’ them (‘scuse pun) totally insane?????

    My contribution today on the ‘time for some humour’ thread is totally heartfelt.

  • #88395
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    kippydog
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    I may be being a bit simplistic about this but surely the whole discussion about tax/MOT/Insurance is to do with the amount of time you are entitled to keep a vehicle in a particular country without registering it and therefore paying the tax SOMEWHERE.
    The only way that the authorities (UK or Spanish) can have any measure of control over the payment of tax (which helps to pay for roads etc, which all drivers use) is to insist that this is done in its country of registration. Until your car reaches an age where it requires an MOT it is pretty easy to flout the ‘six month’ rule (the amount of time Spain allows you, technically, to keep a car here without re-registering it) by simply getting someone to do it for you. Beyond this time, a UK MOT is required to get the tax. Anyone who is keeping a car in Spain beyond the six month deadline is breaking the law in any event, so I don’t see how they can complain about the hoops they have to jump through in order to get a UK MOT. If you spend all your time here why would you not have a Spanish registered car? You wouldn’t expect to get away with flouting the law like this in England.
    Just to underline the insurance point, we know of a couple who had a voluntary Spanish MOT and had an accident a couple of years ago. The other car, which was written off, was worth about €50,000. The insurers did not pay out because the car was not taxed in its country of registration and the people were sued and lost their house. This is surely a gamble which is not worth taking.

  • #88401
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    katy
    Spectator

    @katy wrote:

    I must have had a very reasonable Insurance Company when I was paid 9870 euro for my (UK) car (in Spain). I did think I should have got around 10500 though!

    Repeat my post above, my car wasn’t taxed.

  • #88404
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    kippydog
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    I guess that you were either VERY lucky 😆 or they didn’t find out 😉 – or perhaps it was a long time ago. Things are getting tighter all the time and it seems to me quite reasonable that if we use the roads we should pay road fund tax either in the country in which the car is registered or where we use it – ideally the latter.
    For someone coming to live permanently in Spain, and wanting to bring their UK car with them, it is relatively inexpensive to register it here provided that it is done before or at the same time as applying for residence, as it counts as part of your personal belongings. If you leave it until after you have residence it is very costly as there are all sorts of expensive hoops to jump through, as we found to our cost when we had to register the trailer we brought from the UK and we had already got our residencia. Once it is regsitered here there are no more worries about MOT or UK tax and the tax you pay is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than in UK 8) , not to mention that the first MOT is at 4 years, then at 6 and it is not until you get beyond that that it is annual (or it might be after 8, not quite sure).

  • #88405
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    Anonymous
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    As quite a few UK people seem to be leaving Spain maybe we will start seeing more ESP cars on the roads over there?

  • #88406
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    kippydog
    Participant

    Quite possibly. There are also people still arriving here who want to get rid of their UK cars without practically giving them away – I know of at least one due to come early in the New Year. Maybe there is a business concept here – car exchange agency?.

  • #88417
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    kippydog – I appreciate all your comments how a car owner should be paying their car tax as a contribution to the roads etc., and don’t dispute this. I have always paid car tax, had a valid MOT and valid car insurance.
    However, I don’t expect our elected (and unelected) political representatives to make regulations that require us to ‘jump through hoops’ over anything. They are not our masters, and we are not their circus animals.

    Having just had to make a 3000km round trip back to the UK to obtain a MOT to me is ridiculous, and it’s about time someone with some commonsense in the appropriate office thought about how this problem can be addressed. People within the EU have the freedom to live, work and travel freely, but to make MOT’s for cars only available in the country of registration is in my mind a nonsense. It is purely a test of roadworthiness and MOT’s issued in fellow EU member states should be respected and accepted.

    And now this new clause on my MOT restricting how early one can apply for a new MOT as per my previous post makes people wanting to travel for three months or longer an absolute (impossible) nightmare.
    Goodness knows how people with motorhomes who go abroad for long stretches will cope with this.

    I want a system where those of us who simply want to keep our vehicles legal are able to do so without jumping through impossible/inconvenient hoops.

  • #88419
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    kippydog
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    Katy, I think we may be talking at cross-purposes and there are in fact several issues here.
    At the moment we have a free market and in theory tax-sharing info (for income etc tax) but in fact it is a long way from being properly implemented and there are plenty of people who are using this fact to avoid paying tax in either jurisdiction – which is actually a criminal offence were they caught and makes the tax burden much higher for the rest of us.
    There are tens of thousands of untaxed and uninsured UK registered cars and it is hard enough for the authorities to get on top of that with the cars that are actually in the UK – the Spanish police are very unlikely to be reporting those that are living here to Swansea. They have presumably decided that the best way that they can control it is to insist on an MOT issued in the UK for renewing the road fund tax for a UK registered car, and that cars which spend more than 6 months in any country should be registered and taxed in that country. Otherwise it would be anarchy, thousands of hours of police time would be lost across the whole EU and an important revenue stream would be lost. The system protects us all both economically and physically (by keeping unroadworthy vehicles off the road).
    If we accept that democratically elected governments have the right and indeed the obligation to raise taxes in order to pay for public services, then in a democracy we all have to abide with the systems that these people, voted in by a majority, have decided to use to collect this money. If we don’t like it we can demonstrate our disapproval at the ballot box and if our chosen party does not win or does not implement changes we think are necessary then we are at liberty to abide by the wish of the majority or find somewhere else to live.
    Under present conditions we are not required to jump through any hoops unless we want to flout this system, which 99.9% of the population do not seem to find to be any inconvenience. Also, if we comply with it, as mentioned in my previous post, it costs less in terms of road fund tax and MOT – and even insurance nowadays which was not the case in the past. I am sure that in the fullness of time there will be some Europe-wide recognition system and this problem will go away, but it is probably not at the top of anyone’e priority agenda right now as it will involve all creating a uniform road fund tax system (otherwise everyone will be registering their cars wherever it is cheapest to do so) and I am sure a lot of other complications. Not likely that they are going to do this any time soon in order to satisfy a small number of people who are no longer liable to pay their income tax to Mr Darling!

  • #88420
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    Anonymous
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    Kippydog: Your thoughts & views are noble & fair. However in a society where rapist, muggers are walking free because it will cost to prosecute, place them in Jail & all this will be non revenue generating.

    The Government find the motorist as an easy target. Whilst the motorist do not have a lobby and using AA/RAC as a body representing them does not make sense as these bodies have their own agendas.

    An, MOT carried out in an EU Country, should be acceptable. In so far as the difference in car taxation is concern. Yes there varying taxes in each Country and so what.

    I, can assure you that the Taxes & the fines that are levied on motorist in UK are imposed in other Countries, there would have be riots in the Street.

    We in Britain sit back & take & all that thrown at us, give some rational about democratic Government to function, later go to the pub to forget about it. As a result we get shafted.

  • #88421
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    Anonymous
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    @kippydog wrote:

    Under present conditions we are not required to jump through any hoops unless we want to flout this system……..

    Pardon me? I’ve just driven 3000kms to stay within the system and I call that having to jump through a huge hoop. There are many like myself who are doing their best to stay within the system but the regulations are just not making it easy to do so.
    And no response then to people like ‘motorhomers’ and this new clause on MOT’s. Why should someone have to be in the UK in a 30-day window of their MOT renewal date? To me, this is a ridiculous situation.

    I must admit I had to smile re. your comments on democracy. What democracy? Only a quarter of the population voted for Blair in the first place, only the Labour insiders voted for Brown, new laws are slipped in daily without any discussion (i.e. allowing parts of Shariah law to operate in UK), and despite over 80% of the population wanting a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, none was given despite manifesto promises, etc. etc. If you think there is still a democracy going on in UK, I suggest you may like to reconsider some facts.

    To put it simply, in my opinion MOT’s, like driving licences, should be accepted within the EU – wherever they may be issued.
    This has nothing to do with “tens of thousands of untaxed and uninsured UK registered cars” that you keep repeating. If anything, this current MOT situation will only encourage people to let their MOT expire – and consequently their car tax and insurance.

    Re. your final sentence, many retired people don’t pay income tax to Mr. Darling as they now only have their retirement pensions as income. Why shouldn’t there be laws that ‘satisfy’ them? A lot of them paid into the system for decades and deserve as much consideration as anyone else.
    I find your last sentence somewhat arrogant.

  • #88422
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    katy
    Spectator

    Charlie, you say it so well 🙂 I won’t bother replying. Except to add, I do have a taxed Spanish car (now) however seeing as a third of Spanish in Málaga province are not insured (official figures) I don’t feel indignant about the thousands of UK cars running around here.

  • #88426
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    kippydog
    Participant

    Have to say I really don’t know what all the fuss is about with the exception of the new ‘one month’ rule which does seem to totally lack logic – it should be 6 months if that is the amount of time you are allowed to be in another country without re-registering your car.
    However, for all the rest, I have to ask, if your car spends more than 6 months here, why is it not registered here as required by Spanish law? There are all sorts of areas where we are not necessarily better off financially or in some practical ways being here than being in UK – medical care under retirement age being the worst and the one which probably affects far more people in a much more important way. However, if we choose to be here rather than in UK we just accept these things as part of the cost of living. Why therefore make such an issue about the car thing? Spanish law says 6 months for a non-Spanish registered car, it couldn’t be clearer. For us and for most other people who become Spanish residents, it is a no-brainer. You sell the English car and buy a Spanish one because even if you choose to re-register it you will have a terrible job trying to sell it for more than peanuts when you are tired of it.

    Incidentally I did not vote for the shower in power in UK. To me it was utterly predictable that they would eventually get us into dire economic straits because it has all happened before. However, while it is true that they were not elected by the majority of those eligible to vote, they did get a more of the votes cast than anyone else. That is democracy, and in a democratic country you cannot force people to vote.

  • #88434
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    Anonymous
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    “why is it not registered here as required by Spanish law “

    I don’t see you to be an enforcer or advisor on Spanish law. People have their own views, circumstances, interpretation of the law. If this was not the case we wont have lawyers. If we don’t have lawyers than we wont have a very large proportion of MPs. That would be a wonderful world to live in.

  • #88435
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    kippydog
    Participant

    I am not setting myself up as an adviser or an enforcer of Spanish or any other law. All I am saying is that regardless of what we may think of certain laws, no one is above the law and it is perhaps particularly relevant that we should respect the law in a country which is not our own and where we have chosen to live. If we choose not to comply with the law, I can’t see how we can complain of any inconvenience or cost we incur if there is a perfectly viable alternative which is within the law.

    The UK MOT and road fund tax system is far from perfect, but one thing it does do is to make sure that as cars get older, those which are not taxed, and more particularly, are not insured, can easily be identified. This is relevant because the older the car, statistically the more likelihood that it is not insured. Not insuring a car is a long way from being a victimless crime – ask anyone who has lost a loved one to or been injured by an uninsured driver.

    In this respect the UK system is ahead of many others. In an ideal world every car, regardless of its country of registration, would have a sticker to show that ALL its obligations are being complied with but I guess that is just too simple to expect Brussels to get its head around it.

  • #88446
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    Anonymous
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    @charlie wrote:

    Having just obtained my new MOT (23/11), there is now a clause written on it saying:
    To preserve the anniversary of the expiry date the earliest you can present your vehicle for test is 24/10/2009
    i.e. maximum, one month before.

    Charlie, you misunderstood the meaning of that clause, or have been misinformed when querying it either through incompetence or misunderstanding of your question.

    That clause means that if your current MOT expires on the 1 June 2008, then you can take your car to have a MOT on the 1 May 2008 and the new MOT certificate will be valid for 13 months. You will have preserved the original expiry date, eg the new expiry is 1 June 2009. If you took the car to be MOT’ed on the 1 April 2008 then it would expire 12 months later.

    And that is the point you have failed to understand. It does not make any difference when the MOT expires. At the point of issue it’s valid for a further 12 months (or 13 in the case above).

    If you were going abroad for several months in September, then there was (is) nothing stopping you getting the MOT a few days (weeks) before you left the UK, it would be then valid for the next 12 months.

  • #88452
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    Anonymous
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    JP1, The issue is when ever your MOT expires 12 or 13 months you have to bring the car back into UK just to go through this exercise & that the bone of contention that we all have.

    I, think we all agree with road safety & have no need to act illegally for the heck of it. If the legislation is not user friendly. Even the law abiding Citizens will be pushed.

  • #88454
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    Anonymous
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    shakeel: You can obtain an MOT at any time, the only point of having an MOT one month early is that it then gives you 13 months before you need another one. But if you want an MOT carried out after 3 or 6 months you can, but then the next due date is 12 months AFTER that test.

    I have to ask though, why keep a UK registered car in Spain for 12 months? Not only are you breaking Spanish law but it is obvious what your nationality is & you are driving on the ‘wrong’ side of the car. You become a very visible target for both the police & criminals so why not have a Spanish registered car?

    The fact that (according to Katy) a third of Spanish cars in Malaga are not insured therefor she isn’t bothered about the thousands (her words) of UK cars there is rather odd. Would she take the same view when one of those UK cars hits her & damages her car? She may not be able to do anything about uninsured Spanish drivers, but she could, like me, report any UK car that doesn’t have a valid tax disc.

    The police, & indeed anybody else can see immediately if a Uk registered car has a valid tax disc, if it there isn’t one then the odds are it doesn’t have an MOT or insurance.

    There are, quite rightly, thousands of complaints on this forum about the Spanish breaking their own laws, so the last thing we need is Brits breaking the law in Spain & being encouraged to do so by their fellow Brits, if only by ignoring their actions or justifying it by saying the Spanish break the law.

  • #88456
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    katy
    Spectator

    Don’t be so ridiculous 🙄 My point being that I shall not concern myself about UK cars is because I do not know even if it is my neighbour whose car is insured be it UK Spanish or Russian. Many UK cars are here legally because many only drive over here for the winter and return to the UK in March. As for reporting a UK car to the Civil Guard for being untaxed as I said before…don’t be ridiculous!

  • #88458
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Why is it so ridiculous?

    You would, I hope, report a crime being committed, such as a burglary, so what’s the difference? Not having a valid tax disc is a crime.

    If I see a car without a valid tax disc I report it to the police (in Spain & the UK) & I shall continue to do so.

    You choose not to, that’s up to you, but I hope you are never involved in an accident with an untaxed car. If (when) that situation occurs you will understand the problems better.

  • #88459
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    jp1 – thanks for clarifying the clause on my MOT. Yes, I had misunderstood when querying it with my garage. I will put it down to being partially brain-dead at the time after the journey. 🙁

  • #88460
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I wasn’t going to mention the other aspect of this trip – but think of the cost. With petrol/ferries/road tolls and hotels, not to mention the two-week total waste of my time, the whole procedure just to prove my vehicle is roadworthy, all for a £50 one hour MOT test, cost me a thousand euros plus. Madness.

    And let’s not forget the “don’t use your car unless really necessary to reduce our carbon footprint” that the government keeps banging on about. How many of these pointless/expensive/polluting trips back to the UK have expats made to do just what I did?

    Not everybody fits in the neat little box of either living permanently in UK or living permanently in one other EU country so importing is not an option. I happen to divide my time. Yes, if I lived in Spain (or any other EU country) for more than 6 months it would make sense to buy a local car, but I don’t. And there’s many of us who don’t.

    My suggested solution is there should be a ‘Euro numberplate’ available for people like myself that makes the car legal in all EU countries. The tax could be paid into an EU pot that gets split amongst all EU members. But at the very least, let MOT’s issued anywhere in the EU be cross-border accepted.

    If my driving licence is accepted anywhere in the EU as proof of my fitness to drive, there is no reason why a MOT from another EU country is not accepted as proof of my car’s fitness to be on the road. And kippydog – it needn’t affect a car always being taxed in its country of registeration. The “99.9% of the population do not seem to find it to be any inconvenience” is very wide of the mark I’m afraid.

    kippydog wrote:

    “I may be being a bit simplistic about this….”

    “Have to say I really don’t know what all the fuss is about…..”

    “I can’t see how we can complain of any inconvenience or cost we incur if there is a perfectly viable alternative”

    I think we’ll leave it then that we are living on parallel planets.
    If you read the actual contents of posts and the points made, it may help you “to see” how it is for people who do not fit neatly in the box of permanently being in one country.
    The problem is there is not a “perfectly viable alternative”, and you obviously can’t see beyond everyone fitting into a neat box.

    I feel I’ve paid more than my dues re. proving my vehicle is roadworthy, but they had better sort it out by next year because I’m not doing such an insane trip again.

    Shakeel – you are post-perfect! Am glad you at least understand my point.

  • #88462
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    charlie: I agree that not every-one fits into the same box, thank goodness!.

    If you want to preserve the original anniversary of the MOT test you only have a window of 1 month & that, I accept, can cause some people to have a problem.

    If the original date doesn’t matter & you do return to the UK at some point during a 12 month period, why not get the MOT done then? It may mean having it done after 6 months or 8 months, but so what? You don’t have to make a special trip.

    With regard to the cost of an MOT, on google 10 minutes ago there were nationwide companies offering tests from £25.

    Of course, in an ideal world a test carried out in one country should apply accross the EU, the problem however is not the EU, but national governments. The UK won’t agree because it is regarded as EU interference.

  • #88463
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @rob6578 wrote:

    Why is it so ridiculous?

    You would, I hope, report a crime being committed, such as a burglary, so what’s the difference? Not having a valid tax disc is a crime.

    If I see a car without a valid tax disc I report it to the police (in Spain & the UK) & I shall continue to do so.
    You choose not to, that’s up to you, but I hope you are never involved in an accident with an untaxed car. If (when) that situation occurs you will understand the problems better.

    😆 😆 I can imagine the Spanish police when you report the untaxed UK cars. Don’t listen to the Spanish news much do you! Was reported last week there are so many abandoned cars in Andalucía they cannot cope or afford to do anything about them 😆 Of course they could stop investigating the robberies, drug pushing, murders, scammers and all the other vermin in Andalucía. When the Police give you a copy do they write it on bog roll. 😉 Don’t forget if you make a denuncia the person affected has a right to know who denounced them…some tough characters out here, better watch your back.

  • #88464
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @rob6578 wrote:

    If the original date doesn’t matter & you do return to the UK at some point during a 12 month period, why not get the MOT done then?

    Hi Rob – I take your point, and in past years this has been possible. It is just that this year was different due to personal circumstances (nursing my terminally-ill Mother in Greece) and with so many things to deal with as a result – being in the UK in the last 12 months was just not an option.

    I know £50 for the MOT was over the top, but I prefer to take it to my local Toyota specialist to mess around inside my Landcruiser. I also trust them not to come up with an imaginary problem, have heard of many horror stories – remember Roger Cook (The Cook Report?). He came up with a whole programme on the rogue goings-on with garages making up problems that didn’t exist and charging the earth for them. Would just never use a garage I didn’t know.

    “the problem however is not the EU, but national governments. The UK won’t agree because it is regarded as EU interference.
    Only when it suits them. 😉

  • #88466
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    No wonder crime is on the rise! With that attitude nothing would get done!

    Your point about abandoned cars is irrelevant. The cars I see are being driven by people who can be (& are) easily traced.

    I suggest you report an untaxed car to the police & then post back on their attitude. You will be surprised. Of course, if you are prepared to be intimidated, well, it won’t happen, will it?

    I have reported cars to the police in Malaga & Alicante as well as the Uk & I will continue.

    If any-one wants to object, well, good luck to them. they haven’t tried yet!

    I’ve lost close friends to uninsured drivers & it is as serious a crime as the other offences you mention.

  • #88467
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I could say get a life 😆

  • #88468
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Say that to my friend of over 40 years who was killed by an uninsured, untaxed driver! In fact, why not say it to his widow & 2 children!

  • #88469
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Nobody, is sugguesting that cars should not be uninsured.
    How does a car gets dangerous or contributes towards road safety if it is untaxed ?????

  • #88473
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Because if it is untaxed the insurance is invalid! + the car is illegal!

  • #88475
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Yes but it’s the being killed thats bad , surely the driver being uninsured is financially bad but it is not the main tragedy…and is an uninsured driver necessarily a bad driver?
    I don’t know if a car not being taxed invalidates the Insurance, (except in forumland) certainly did not make a difference to mine.

  • #88491
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m amazed at this debate!

    Yes, of course, being killed is bad & yes, an uninsured driver doing the killing is bad financially & yes, insured drivers kill as well.

    Is an uninsured driver necessarily a bad driver? YES! At the very least he/she is STUPID, quite often someone who couldn’t get insurance because of a bad driving record & some-one who shouldn’t be on the road.

    With regard to tax invalidating insurance I suggest checking with your insurance company/broker. According to the AA it does invalidate insurance, perhaps others take a different view. My experience of insurance companies is that they look for any excuse not to pay out.

    Irrespective of all the above, the bottom line is that it is illegal to drive a car without valid tax, current MOT & insurance.

    How can we complain about the Spanish breaking laws if we do the same?

  • #88494
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    What EXACTLY is the Spanish law?

    How long can i drive a UK plated vehicle (MOT’d, taxed and insured from UK) in Spain?

    Is it possible to have a UK plated car taxed, insured and MOT’d in Spain?

    If every UK car with an out of date UK tax disc, or no tax disc, is illegala why don’t the police take action. Just strolling around my village i see about 20 of these alongside the road. No need for road blocks – justa casual glance at the windscreen.

    BUT i have seen UK plated cars with ITV stickers on their screens – how is this possible?

  • #88496
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @ashtondav wrote:

    What EXACTLY is the Spanish law?

    How long can i drive a UK plated vehicle (MOT’d, taxed and insured from UK) in Spain? 6 months officially

    Is it possible to have a UK plated car taxed, insured and MOT’d in Spain? Only if you matriculate it on Spanish plates

    If every UK car with an out of date UK tax disc, or no tax disc, is illegala why don’t the police take action. Just strolling around my village i see about 20 of these alongside the road. No need for road blocks – justa casual glance at the windscreen. Answer is in your question, there are so many, plus German, Dutch etc. They turn a blind eye, unless another offence is committed and they will.

    BUT i have seen UK plated cars with ITV stickers on their screens – how is this possible?

    There are always ways and means to obtain these.

    I was in Marymar centre, Fuengirola last week, the Police could have probably picked 40 UK untaxed cars in 10 mins. Think about it…

    Not every UK car is illegal, we have many friends who drive here for the winter.

  • #88554
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can’t really blame the UK for not accepting a Spanish ITV pass stamp.
    If my experiences of taking my very old Spanish plated car for its annual inspection are anything to go on.
    It seems that provided the car can make it from the entrance to the exit of the testing station under its own steam, it will pass.
    The first time I took it I thought rather than do anything first, I’ll see what they fail it on then carry out the work needed.
    It’s now been passed for the last 3 years without being touched 😮

    Having been involved in the UK motor trade for 35 yrs and carried out thousands of MOT tests I know for a fact that there is no way my Spanish car would have passed a UK MOT test on any of the 3 previous times.

  • #88556
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Btw UK and other national plated cars can be voluntarily put through the ITV in Spain and obtain a sticker – it doesnt have to be dodgy, however Im not sure what it proves either.

  • #88557
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @inez wrote:

    Btw UK and other national plated cars can be voluntarily put through the ITV in Spain

    Not any longer…unless it is as part of the re-matriculation process (which attracts a higher ITV inspection fee).

  • #88560
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    But what EXACTLY is the law. How long can you legally drive a UK plated car. If it has MOT and insurance and tax disc for 12 months is it illegal at the end of 12 months? What do you do then? Do you have to go back to the UK to get new tax, insurance and MOT or what?

  • #88562
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Sometimes I sits and thinks – and sometimes I just sits…”
    🙄

    While you’re sitting, suggest you go back to page 1 and read the thread through.

  • #88567
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yeah i did. Nowhere is it stated what EXACTLY the law is relating to UK plated cars in Spain…

  • #88568
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @katy wrote:

    @ashtondav wrote:
    What EXACTLY is the Spanish law?

    How long can i drive a UK plated vehicle (MOT’d, taxed and insured from UK) in Spain? 6 months officially

    Is it possible to have a UK plated car taxed, insured and MOT’d in Spain? Only if you matriculate it on Spanish plates

    BUT i have seen UK plated cars with ITV stickers on their screens – how is this possible?

    There are always ways and means to obtain these.

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