Tonight Trevor McDonald Video: Spanish House Price Crash

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  • #52927
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    Anonymous
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    Tonight with Trevor McDonald 1st June 2007. Spanish House Price Crash. The property market in Spain is crashing at full speed and British holiday home debtors are facing up to heavy losses.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6227716980817152169&hl=en-GB

  • #72818
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    ๐Ÿ™

    Having just watched the programme I couldn’t help thinking of some similarities of my parents’ experiences at the hands of Ocean Estates a few years ago.

    Like the young couple featured, Ocean convinced my parents to buy 2 off-plan apts. in Cabopino saying they could resell both before completion in a years’ time, or, that the profit on one could pay for half the other one. Then put them in touch with a dreadful lawyer, now known as DLM, and the build took 3.5 years, not 15 months as promised. The spec didn’t match either, it turned out to be a nightmare. Of course ALL Ocean’s Directors and Managers were buying there too, ‘SO HURRY TO AVOID DISAPOINTMENT’.

    Was all lies by Ocean staff.

  • #72819
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Has anyone else noticed a correlation between the ability to spell and the ability to buy off plan?

  • #72821
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    On another thread a few weeks ago….

    @bobsmith wrote:

    Commonsense would suggest to me that the one letting go of the cash needs to be more causios than the one receiving.

    Has anyone noticed that sarcastic b*****ds can’t spell either.

    …..and ‘off-plan’ has a hyphen by the way. ๐Ÿ™„

  • #72822
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Well spotted charlie, people in glass houses…. ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜†

  • #72823
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ooh grammar police: Can I join? ๐Ÿ˜†

  • #72824
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Has anyone noticed that sarcastic b*****ds can’t spell either?

    ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #72826
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    ๐Ÿ™

    Thanks charlie et al for pointing that out.

    Sew wot bobsmith, peepel often spel the od wird rong, hoo kares neeway?

    He’s missing the point, or maybe he works for Ocean and can’t stand the criticism.

  • #72827
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    ๐Ÿ˜›

    bobsmith, I forgot to mention that ‘LIES’ (as per Ocean’s sales spiel) was spelt correctly though, and they’re still at it I hear!

    Leopards can’t change their spots!

  • #72829
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fuengi…..can I wriggle out of that one by saying it was more of a statement than a question? ๐Ÿ™

  • #72839
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Fuengi…..can I wriggle out of that one by saying it was more of a statement than a question? ๐Ÿ™

    ๐Ÿ˜† statement it is.

  • #72842
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Bless yer! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #72912
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    Paul
    Participant

    I fully expect property crashes in Bulgaria, Turkey etc where many of these dodgy agents like Awful are operating since Spain has gone pear-shaped so don’t be tempted in some of their so called emerging markets and the same old sales hype for off-plans. โ—

  • #72930
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @paul wrote:

    I fully expect property crashes in Bulgaria, Turkey etc where many of these dodgy agents like Awful are operating since Spain has gone pear-shaped so don’t be tempted in some of their so called emerging markets and the same old sales hype for off-plans. โ—

    You’re right Paul, I just don’t know how people can possibly be wasting their money buying off-plans in Turkey, Bulgaria, Morocco, Brazil, Thailand, Poland or Sicily when clearly the next 2008 hot spot is buying in …. Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia !

    http://www.themovechannel.com/property/Development/Regency-Residence/273275/details.htm

    Strangely enough people haven’t caught this real-estate train yet so obviously it’s the right time to buy in with annual yields of 20% if not more -guaranteed of course- !

    ๐Ÿ™„

  • #72934
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @Drakan wrote:

    You’re right Paul, I just don’t know how people can possibly be wasting their money buying off-plans in Turkey, Bulgaria, Morrocco or Sicily when clearly the next 2008 hotspot is buying in …. Ulaan Baatar, Mongolia !

    http://www.themovechannel.com/property/Development/Regency-Residence/273275/details.htm

    Strangely enough people haven’t caught this real-estate train yet so obviously it’s the right time to buy in with annual yields of 20% if not more -guaranteed of course- !

    ๐Ÿ™„

    Oh! You weren’t joking. I read the other day that Kazakhstan is also a bit of a hot spot. It’s a good laugh this globalisation, innit?

  • #72936
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Where’s the nearest bar ??? ๐Ÿ™

  • #72938
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

    Drakan, I’m glad you agree about some of these so called emerging markets. I wouldn’t waste my money AGAIN listening to the lies those same agents and new boys are spouting out, some of whom are members of AIPP (NEW REGULATORY BODY TO PROTECT BUYERS-JOKE).

    Cape Verde is another one, apperently windswept barren islands with nothing to do, no infrastucture and no-one to rent to, plus expensive flights.

    As for Mongolia, will they allow lets to the yaks that pass in that prison-like building?

    Still think Bulgaria and Turkey are to be strongly avoided, disasters waiting to happen.

  • #72939
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    But Mongolia has just a wonderful climate!

    @internet wrote:

    Most of the country is hot in the summer and extremely cold in the winter, with January averages dropping as low as -30ยบC (-22ยบF). The country is also subject to occasional harsh climatic conditions known as zud or dzud. Ulaanbaatar has the coldest average temperature of any national capital in the world.

    Mongolia is high, cold, and windy. It has an extreme continental climate with long, cold winters and short summers, during which most of its annual precipitation falls. The country averages 257 cloudless days a year, and it is usually at the center of a region of high atmospheric pressure. Precipitation is highest in the north (average of 20 to 35 centimeters per year) and lowest in the south, which receives 10 to 20 centimeters annually.

    As for transportation to an from the apartment block

  • #72940
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    But Mongolia has just a wonderful climate!

    @internet wrote:

    Most of the country is hot in the summer and extremely cold in the winter, with January averages dropping as low as -30ยบC (-22ยบF). The country is also subject to occasional harsh climatic conditions known as zud or dzud. Ulaanbaatar has the coldest average temperature of any national capital in the world.

    Mongolia is high, cold, and windy. It has an extreme continental climate with long, cold winters and short summers, during which most of its annual precipitation falls. The country averages 257 cloudless days a year, and it is usually at the center of a region of high atmospheric pressure. Precipitation is highest in the north (average of 20 to 35 centimeters per year) and lowest in the south, which receives 10 to 20 centimeters annually.

    As for transportation to an from the apartment block

    Fuengi, you are so negative. You fail to see the point: 20% capital appreciation p.a. -guaranteed- !!

    ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #72953
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Drakan

    tut, tut, tut, a bit of bad weather, and people are put of your wonderful buying idea in Mongolia. I feel like, selling my house and business in the UK, borrowing ten times my annual salary, finding an agent called Mongolia oceanview estates or similar, go out on an inspection trip and use their recommended lawyer to help me put deposits on about ten 2 bed appartments in the middle of nowhere. And forget all the useless paperwork like contracts, BG’S and LFO’s, they just slow things down and make it look like you dont trust the integrity of the good people you are dealing with.

    There, that’s more like it.

  • #72955
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    Anonymous
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    Better yet, after settling in you can band together with some other disillusioned buyers and contribute to the Mongolian Property Insight forum.

    ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #72956
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    ๐Ÿ˜†

    Rawlins – maybe we should try googling ‘MPI’ in about a year’s time…

  • #72957
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    New investment idea for the lower end of the market and less of a hassle to plan than most other building projects : Mini golf resorts.

    – All villa’s have a view of all the holes
    – Build area 37m2
    – Outside pool (when it rains and shorly after that)
    – Free icecream with every villa !

    Location : Just 80km from the beach of sunny Murcia, offplan from only 189.000 Euro. Buy 3 get 2 !

  • #72958
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    Anonymous
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    @Rawlins wrote:

    Better yet, after settling in you can band together with some other disillusioned buyers and contribute to the Mongolian Property Insight forum.

    ๐Ÿ˜‰

    That’s exactly the story with all these “emerging markets”. They are all speculative bubbles fostered by greed.

    That’s why they moved from Spain to Bulgaria. Because when you buy off-plan the problems are only apparent after 3-4 years later, so there’s an opportunity window that can be exploited by ruthless REA to sell and market and hype these properties. They know that after those 3 years all the truth will start to come out so they must seek a new โ€œhot spotโ€ which unsurprisingly changes every year.

    After 3 years the complaints come trickling in at first, then buyers organise themselves and create websites such as SPI with all sort of buyers telling their woes and opening up other prospective purchasers eyes. This market then becomes “pear shaped”, and “not everyone’s cup of tea” and so a new one must be searched.

    So what do they do ? They move on to another emerging market with feeble legal frames and very low wages and foster yet another asset bubble. They buy land first, develop it and commercialise it at ridiculous high prices.

    The natives just laugh at foreigners paying so ridiculous prices and they in turn earn so little money that they cannot rent or purchase the property from the foreigner (normally British). The speculator or flipper relies then on other countrymen to sell on the property and so on. We then see capital appreciation of two digits a year โ€“on paper- because until you donโ€™t sell the property you donโ€™t make the profit as it is obvious.

    Once Spain turned sour (after many years) they moved onto Bulgaria, then after the first complaints appeared they moved into Morocco. Now that problems are appearing in Bulgaria (properties cannot be owned by foreigners except through companies, houses burnt down, no resale market, prices exorbitantly high, no promised sky resorts etcโ€ฆ) they have moved elsewhere: to Morocco, to Brazil, Thailand, Poland, Cape Verde, Southern Scily etc…

    It’s like a property virus pattern that infects the local prices of real estate assets fostered by ruthless agents and greedy speculators on the look-out for a fast buck (I don’t mean to criticise speculators or flippers, I have done it myself). Easy credit being the fuel.

    This pattern is repeating itself all along many “emerging markets” now that the traditional British markets are mature (Spain, France etc…).

    As there is no SPI forums in those third-world countries many people are buying with frenzy properties which real price is way below than what they are paying for it.

    In the California gold-rush only the intermediaries who sold the buckets and pikes to the fevered gold-diggers were the ones that earned money big time. History tends to repeat itself.

    Thatโ€™s why I believe that this recession will be nothing like that of the 90โ€™s. Back then properties didnโ€™t sell but nobody ever spoke of a real estate bubble such as now. Nowadays you have blogs, newspaper articles etc the World over talking about the ridiculous high prices that real estate has reached within the last decade.
    I think that British and Irish are indebted up to their eyeballs and will be the ones worst hit. Increasing interest rates don’t help and will be the trigger.

    I hope time proves me wrong for their own sake.

    Just for the record, I always defend that foreigners should buy through professional REA in a foreign country, I don’t ever criticise Estate Agencies or Agents without a reason. I’m criticising now what some rogue cowboys are doing that don’t deserve to be called Estate Agents because they are not, they are marketeers of property hype, fostering bubbles nothing more. So here goes my respect to all the professional Agents and Agencies out there that do not deserve to be slandered or put in the same bag as the other lot.

  • #72967
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    Drakan

    tut, tut, tut, a bit of bad weather, and people are put of your wonderful buying idea in Mongolia. I feel like, selling my house and business in the UK, borrowing ten times my annual salary, finding an agent called Mongolia oceanview estates or similar, go out on an inspection trip and use their recommended lawyer to help me put deposits on about ten 2 bed appartments in the middle of nowhere. And forget all the useless paperwork like contracts, BG’S and LFO’s, they just slow things down and make it look like you dont trust the integrity of the good people you are dealing with.

    There, that’s more like it.

    That’s the spirit Goodstich. We all know that Lawyers only complicate matters, it’s better to cut short all the paperwork and just sign on the dotted line. Who needs BGs and LFO ?

    Incidentally, looking through a magazine I must say I was surprised to see Livingstone Estates publishing that a development in Estepona has a LFO and is legal. Just goes to show that what we write here has at least some impact. Kudos to them.

    This site, SPI, was the firt one to ever mention the pitfalls of completing without a LFO or talking of BGs. Other sites have followed suit since then.

  • #72973
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Drakan, excellent posts, you have hit the nail on the head, but….you forgot Dubai (lots of problems there) ๐Ÿ™‚

  • #72975
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Drakan, excellent posts, you have hit the nail on the head, but….you forgot Dubai (lots of problems there) ๐Ÿ™‚

    ๐Ÿ˜ฏ Dubai ? Are you sure ? Because Dubai Seaweed Estates promised that I would earn at least 15% p.a in despite of the new 5.000 flats that were being built in Jumeirah !

    I will have to take take your word Katy. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #72978
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    sorry all you astute investors out there you missed the boat, all the 1 beds are sold out.

    http://www.propertyfrontiers.com/developments/mongolia/Regency-Residence-Ulaan-Baatar-Mongolia.html

  • #72983
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    jiminspain

    that’s terrible news, i’m heartbroken……..Oh well, Kazakhstan here i come!

  • #72984
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I believe prices include a trans siberian railway pass and an underground Yak park.

    A few more good reasons to invest in Mongolia

    The travel season is typically from May to early October, though Ulaanbaatar can be visited any time of year if you can tolerate the bitter cold. Early July has the best weather for the northern part of the country and is also the time to celebrate Mongolia’s Naadam Festival. Unfortunately, this is the peak tourist season, when Ulaanbaatar’s inadequate accommodation and creaky transport is stretched to breaking point. The rainy season, from late July through August, cools things down and the turn the countryside to green, but will also turn jeep trails into muck. Rains in the north also bring biting flies and mosquitoes. June and September are both pleasant times to visit, and attract fewer visitors.

    The best months to visit the Gobi Desert and not get toasted are September and October. Be aware that between mid-October and mid-May sudden snowstorms and extreme cold can ground flights, block roads and cause the country’s transport system to stall. Mongolians, especially nomads, consider March and April the worst months. After the long winter, livestock will already be thin, and a lack of rain means many will die, causing financial and psychological hardship. Staying with a nomad family at this time is not recommended if the spring is a harsh one.

  • #72985
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Relax guys – maybe we don’t have to look ‘East’ after all. You can still make big bucks investing in Spain.

    A little gem found on a property website as their ‘bargain of the week’.


    quote:
    “This Spanish property bargain is an off plan project in Jete, a small Andalucian village 15 minutes outside Almuรฑecar on the Costa Tropical.
    It is currently still waiting for final planning consent and permission ๐Ÿ™ but that is only two months away ๐Ÿ˜€ but the project fulfills all town hall criteria ๐Ÿ˜ฅ .
    It is being offered at 320,000 euros which is a reasonable price for that type of property now, let alone two years time when its finished. But I know the owner will take 100,000 euros for the land and I can recommend local Spanish builders who have quoted 150,000 euros to build the complete project! All this property for the bargain price of 250,000 euros.
    The project is scheduled to take 18 months (allow Spanish time so say 2 years) with property inflation figures of 17% and government economic think tanks seeing no slow down in spanish property prices for at least 2 years you are paying 250,000 for something that could be worth (320,000 x 17%)374,000 year 1 and (374,400x 17%)=438,048 euros at the end of year two. So this bargain Spanish off plan property could give you a gross capital return of 75 % in two years ๐Ÿ˜ฏ plus interest on the money as the Spanish builders would be paid in stage payments”.

    I’ve checked the maths…and it’s true!
    Anyone want to form a property-club and go ‘shares’? ๐Ÿ˜€

  • #73007
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    ๐Ÿ˜€

    Drakan, you are a very wise person indeed!

    Some of these REAs will hype up anything if they can, even maybe cowpats with re-sale potential.

    regards

    Paul

  • #73008
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    June edition of a property mag….
    Egypt the next property hotspot, 20% to 25% year on year capital appreciation, expected rental income in excess of 10% PA.

    Morocco, emerging market, returns are expected to be 15% to 30% and has a fascinating buy to let market.

    Both advertised by Casa Blanca estates.

    So they are still saying the same as they did about Spain..just different countries ๐Ÿ™„

  • #73013
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    My money is on Ouagadougou (Burkina Faso). It’s got such a lovely ring to it, which is surely the most important thing to consider when buying abroad?

  • #73023
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hey Paul

    Don’t ever under estimate the value of a cow pat in the right location now – its all about location location location – with excellent rental potential and great capital growth this small development could be your pension in the making. Best get in now before the rush puts prices beyond your reach

    Have a great weekend

    Vince

  • #73024
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    A young man annoyingly kept trying trying to engage a pretty girl in conversation on a train, but all she wanted to do was to read her book. She eventually put her book down, sighed and said “OK, what do you want to talk about?”.
    Encouraged, the young man said “I don’t mind, anything. How about nuclear energy?”.
    The girl replied “Alright, but first let me ask you a question. A deer, a cow and a horse all eat grass. A deer makes little pellets, a cow makes big squishy cow pats and a horse makes big dry droppings full of grass. Why is that?”.
    The young man thought for a moment, then replied “I don’t know. Why?”.
    The girl, picking up her book again, replied “You want a conversation about nuclear energy when you don’t know sh*t!??”.

    Am I on the right thread? ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  • #73079
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    ๐Ÿ˜›

    Good post Vince!

    No flies on you then???? Unlike those Awful Estates t—s who sold a lot of bull s–t to people.

  • #73080
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    katy wrote:
    June edition of a property mag….
    Egypt the next property hotspot, 20% to 25% year on year capital appreciation, expected rental income in excess of 10% PA.

    Morocco, emerging market, returns are expected to be 15% to 30% and has a fascinating buy to let market.

    Both advertised by Casa Blanca estates.

    So they are still saying the same as they did about Spain..just different countries ๐Ÿ™„

    And you know what? The Brits are still falling for it.

  • #73167
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Reminds me of the pigeon who flew too high. His wings froze over and he landed in a field. Dyยกng with the cold he was taking his last breath when a cow came along and dumped straight on top of him. The heat from the cowpat started to revive him. Relieved he poked his head out from the pat and a fox standing nearby pulled him from the pat and ate him up.

    The moral of the story – not everyone who shits on you is your enemy, and not everyone who pulls you out is your friend! ๐Ÿ˜€

  • #73170
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Nice one Bobsmith

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