The Russians are coming!

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This topic contains 52 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of DBMarcos99 DBMarcos99 3 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #57141
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
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    Interesting post from a gentleman who lives (I believe) in Mojacar.

    http://spanishshilling.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/the-russians-are-coming.html

    However, it’s the Russians who are buying the most. According to Masa International, Spain is seen in Moscow as the fashionable place to have a holiday home: in fact, there are now 250 agencies in that city who specialise in Spanish sales. While the Spanish have never quite understood why foreigners like ‘to stick together’, crafting Spanish towns and resorts as far as possible into mono-cultural conurbations, like the Germans with Mallorca or the British with their Fuengirola or Mojรกcar, it’s clear that the Russians prefer the Costa Dorada. The agency Europa Dom in Tarragona claims that 75% of all their sales are to Russian buyers.

  • #113329
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    It was taken from El Pais. Usual quotes from estate agents in it. In the article one spanish agent states that the Belgians are one of the biggest buyers ๐Ÿ˜†

    full article:

    http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2012/11/09/actualidad/1352495345_394250.html

  • #113332
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    While the Spanish have never quite understood why foreigners like ‘to stick together’…

    The millions of Spanish who themselves have emigrated at some point in their lives know exactly why – because they tend to do exactly the same.

    The rest of the article is pretty good though – especially the bit about the nature of property held by Spanish banks: the only people ever like to buy most of it are the same people who can’t afford it. There are some decent repossessions in expat areas, but they don’t make up the bulk of the property held by banks, and most of them aren’t priced any lower than the going rate anyway.

  • #113333
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The Banks do not even respond emails. Their site carries as free call number which does work from outside Spain.

  • #113334
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I think Mark posted a short while ago that Russians were buying, we’ve had the huge Norwegian nation buying, and now the Chinese have bought 25 units of Taylor Wimpey’s stock in Southern Spain in the last year, yes 2 a month (oops) it seems! However it seems odd that many Spaniards are moving to the UK now, they will probably want homes too ๐Ÿ™„

    I believe 1600 applicants for one job in the UK were from Spaniards ๐Ÿ™„

    It’s a funny old world Saint ๐Ÿ˜†

  • #113338
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    If anyone was inclined to do a bit of research I think they would find a load of articles about the Russians coming dating from around 2004 ๐Ÿ™„

  • #113340
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Agree there katy, they’ve been coming for years, and now the other nations are being pushed as new buyers. However most of those so called overseas buyers in Spain are also buying in the UK ๐Ÿ™„

  • #113345
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @mgspain wrote:

    As long as it’s Russian females in their 20’s or 30’s, I’m OK with that.

    No shortage of those on the industrial estates and in Puerto Banus ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #113347
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    angie
    Spectator

    mg, if you believe all the talk on here that these people and those people are buying now in Spain, you will soon be able to choose from Russian, Chinese, Norwegian girls and more no doubt, just wait until someone says the largest group of buyers are Falkland Islanders etc ๐Ÿ˜†

  • #113348
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    You missed out the Belgians ๐Ÿ˜€

  • #113355
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Just heard that same paper El Pais has just laid off a quarter of it’s workforce to add to Iberia laying off 4,500 workers. What with these events and austerity strikes today and more to come, why would people risk buying in Spain for now unless for a lifestyle change? Investing there seems decidedly unsound, Russian or not ๐Ÿ™„

  • #113388
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @mgspain wrote:

    everybody forgets the Belgians ๐Ÿ˜€

    I live in one of Spain’s most “international” towns, judging by the empty flats in my area, nobody is buying, not at current prices at least.

    which town is that?

  • #113427
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    I live in Spain and watch the Spanish news most mornings, as well as the British ones. This morning there was yet another programme concerning Russians buying Spanish properties.

    But forgetting news programmes and googling around, I am witnessing the increasing Russian presence at ground level, they are buying in numbers and at all levels in the market.

    I’m not an agent of any sort, but have agents and other people connected with the property market in my circle of friends.

    And this is different to the influx of Russian criminals to the Costa del Sol all those years ago – these are ordinary expats, probably of the same age group as the British ones who used to flock to Spain in happier days.

    I don’t think their numbers at this time make any difference to the dire housing market in Spain, but who knows about the longer future?

  • #113428
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    To help people understand the influx of russian buyers it would be good to know their age range and weather they are buying as holiday homes or residences,do they need to find work or are they part of the work from anywhere I.T crowd.Do they need to get finance to buy or do they have cash

  • #113436
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    Anonymous
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    @dartboy wrote:

    To help people understand the influx of russian buyers it would be good to know their age range and weather they are buying as holiday homes or residences,do they need to find work or are they part of the work from anywhere I.T crowd.Do they need to get finance to buy or do they have cash

    I know of one recent example, probably irrelevant in the wider context, but a British, retired couple had their quite modern, normal townhouse up for sale for 150K because the husband could no longer negotiate the stairs to the second floor and they wanted to relocate to an apartment.

    It was up for sale at the right price for two years, with little interest from the few British buyers still in the area. A couple of months ago it was sold to a Russian couple, through the same agents who hadn’t been able to sell it in the normal market, the British and North European one.

    The Russian buyers are a couple, probably in their fifties, who moved in with a daughter of around thirty. They paid cash, and would not have been able to get a mortgage in Spain anyway, no matter where they’re from. They appear to be no different to the people living around them and I’m sure the local Spanish people will welcome them in the same way as they welcome the British expats who spend their money in Spain.

  • #113443
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    Anonymous
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    so they maybe wealthy enough to live on their investments and the daughter may need to find work or be kept by the parents if these are typical of the sort buying i would expect the spanish to be welcoming and doing everything they can to get them into their shops and restaurants.
    It make sence for the russians to retire to spain as we do to escape the cold.

  • #113509
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    “Russian tourists continued to flock in droves in October to enjoy what Spain has to offer”

    http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/11/22/inenglish/1353605613_750446.html

    According to figures released Thursday by the Industry, Tourism and Energy Ministry, the number of Russian visitors to Spain last month climbed 61.3 percent from a year earlier to 75,749 and were up 41.3 percent in the first 10 months of the year at 1.128 million. The ministry said the size of the Russian market for the Spanish tourist sector has doubled in the past two years.

    For a few years it’s been claimed the language of the future will be Mandarin, but I wonder if Russian would be a better bet, especially in the Spanish tourist sector?

  • #113510
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    Ignoring Mandarin, English and Spanish are the main languages in the rest of the world, with about 700 million speakers in each.

    In Europe, English is the most common language, as well as the language used by the business community.

    A western tongue finds Chinese difficult to learn, and Russian is not much easier, compared to that learning Spanish is a doddle for northern Europeans, and vice versa.

    Strangely enough, a major local estate agency now employs both Russian and Mandarin speakers, the market demands it.

  • #113511
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
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    @ marcos

    this part of the article threw me though

    Russians last year bought 41,000 homes in Spain at a total value of 1.2 billion euros.

    1.200.000.000 / 41.000 = 29.268โ‚ฌ per home.

    The government earlier this week announced that it is planning to change the Alien Law to allow people from non-European Union states such as Russia and China to be granted temporary residence permits if they acquire a home in Spain valued at over 160,000 euros.

    no much good for a majority of them then.

  • #113513
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    Anonymous
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    @fuengi wrote:

    @ marcos

    this part of the article threw me though

    Russians last year bought 41,000 homes in Spain at a total value of 1.2 billion euros.

    1.200.000.000 / 41.000 = 29.268โ‚ฌ per home.

    That’s just a big mistake on the part of El Pais.

    Last year Russians bought 1,645 homes in Spain, according to the National Institute of Statistics.

  • #113514
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
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    @Rocker wrote:

    Ignoring Mandarin, English and Spanish are the main languages in the rest of the world, with about 700 million speakers in each.

    In Europe, English is the most common language, as well as the language used by the business community.

    A western tongue finds Chinese difficult to learn, and Russian is not much easier, compared to that learning Spanish is a doddle for northern Europeans, and vice versa.

    Strangely enough, a major local estate agency now employs both Russian and Mandarin speakers, the market demands it.

    The only practical point in learning any language other than English is if you have some personal connection to it (such as spending lots of time in a country where it is spoken). I’m amazed at how many people I hear of in Madrid and London who are wasting time and money trying to teach their children Mandarin.

  • #113515
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
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    @mark wrote:

    @fuengi wrote:
    @ marcos

    this part of the article threw me though

    Russians last year bought 41,000 homes in Spain at a total value of 1.2 billion euros.

    1.200.000.000 / 41.000 = 29.268โ‚ฌ per home.

    That’s just a big mistake on the part of El Pais.

    Last year Russians bought 1,645 homes in Spain, according to the National Institute of Statistics.

    Thanks Mark. had not time to check the stats. thats more like it though, average price is then 729.483โ‚ฌ per home. Bit more impressive.

  • #113516
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    Anonymous
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    I wonder what the numbers are for the British invasion of Spain and when it really started in earnest, though I don’t suppose such statistics are even available. I don’t doubt that the Spanish would welcome a million Russians to snap up at least some of their overbuild, and maybe the 1,600 homes sold to them last year is only the start of something much bigger.

    Forum members may not like to agree, but I suspect that the sun and property cheapness (compared to the UK) started the British love affair with Spain, and their presence in such great numbers nowadays ensures that the main expat areas provide everything from back home. I was shopping in Consum yesterday and saw jars of Marmite on the shelves, just along from the baked beans. Cheddar cheese was just around the corner and Hovis in the freezers.

  • #113517
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    If they sell “Hovis” I am coming !!!!!

  • #113518
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I don’t like Marmite, but I confess to buying the Hovis and baked beans. On the Russian front, I went to one of their restaurants in town and thoroughly enjoyed the meal and entertainment. The evening was spoilt when I went to the toilet and found myself back in the Middle Ages.

  • #113530
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I must admit that I asked our local Mercadona to stock Marmite when we lived there…. only because it was unfair that they already stocked Bovril ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • #113825
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
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    It seems that numbers of foreign buyers are definitely rising. However, worth noting that sales overall are still down. It will be interesting to see if the 160k measure (if the govt actually get around to implementing it) makes any difference to the numbers. With the over-suppply of available properties, prices should remain low for a few years yet?

    http://www.opp-connect.com/index.php?option=com_postwebsites&view=postnews&id=668

    The number of overseas buyers purchasing property in Spain rose 18% in the year to quarter three 2012 โ€“ but overall purchases have fallen, new figures show.

  • #113827
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    Anonymous
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    Spain cannot restart its property market internally, they’ve built far too many houses and the country is in recession.

    They have to rely on foreigners to help them out, and their desperation is such that they don’t care where those foreigners come from. If it were possible they would give residencia to Martians, and looking around sometimes, I think they already have.

    I enjoy and have long experience in listening to foreigners and trying to guess where they come from. If you lump together the Scandinavian states, they’re easy, as are the eastern Europeans and Russians, ditto the Chinese, but sometimes I’m totally flummoxed.

    A couple from Gateshead flummoxed me just the other day, I thought they were Georgians instead of Geordies.

  • #113834
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
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    Economic crisis or not, given the aging population in Spain, combined with the low birthrate and now young people seeking jobs in other countries, Spain must have a liberal immigration policy or it will collapse as a country.

  • #113835
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Spain. further needs to deal with it taxation and the differential treatment of the non residents. The taxation on purchase price, Notary fee, Banks opening fee, taxes associated with mortgages, capital gains tax, inheritence tax. ( Sorry , if I posted this many a times in nthe past )

    In addition simple & non ambigious rent act. I will be happy to buy a portfolio of buy to lets but as I do not have confidence in the legal system plus the extra cost of purchases that reduces my yeild. I see risk all the way & no reward.

    Living in UK I have a choice too buy two properties in London against the four/six in Spain.

  • #113840
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Well a bird in the hand is worth 2 in a bush :mrgreen: I would prefer to own one in London than 3 in Spain.

  • #114371
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    This is a staggering statistic, and confirms the growing Russian interest in Spain.
    In the first 9 months of 2012 Russian buyers bought more houses in Spain than the Germans. Considering they currently need a visa even just to visit Spain, that is quite staggering.
    http://www.teinteresa.es/dinero/rusos-adquieren-casas-Espana-alemanes_0_838716219.html
    So it seems that Rocker was spot on with his observations of the growing Russian presence.

  • #114372
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Another article that gives more detail on the Russian influx. In 2012 there were 1.2 million Russian visitors, and their spend increased by 40%. The industry expects a further rise of 30% in 2013 from Russian tourists. Consequently Spain is pressing hard with the EU to do away with the tourist visa required by Russian visitors. Not sure how they can do that whilst staying part of the Schengen pact!

    http://www.hosteltur.com/125420_espana-presiona-ue-eliminar-visados-turistas-rusos.html

  • #114392
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    Anonymous
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    As you mention DBMarcos that means they would be free to move around freely in the whole of Schengen pact and it’s never going to happen. It’s a sort of untapped market since russians have quite a lot of problems going where ever they want. Think it’s even worse with some countries like Ukraine. Often they can only go to Turkey or Cyprus without any real hassle.

  • #114397
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    DBMarcos99
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    @Ardun wrote:

    As you mention DBMarcos that means they would be free to move around freely in the whole of Schengen pact and it’s never going to happen. It’s a sort of untapped market since russians have quite a lot of problems going where ever they want. Think it’s even worse with some countries like Ukraine. Often they can only go to Turkey or Cyprus without any real hassle.

    I understand Portugal already has such a measure – although it’s for a greater sum (around 500k iirc).
    So I don’t think the Schengen countries can rule it out necessarily – just they may try and increase the qualifying amount.
    Of course, it’s also possible that Rajoy&Co are using this as a bargaining technique to ensure lower borrowing costs.

  • #114398
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    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Interesting article Mark has entered on this site -seems the Russians are keen to see this measure implemented.

    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/2012/12/31/residency-permits-will-stimulate-demand-says-russian-ambassador-to-spain/

  • #114837
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    DBMarcos99
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    Possibly the least surprising piece of news today? What is refreshing is that the perpetrators are being arrested.
    “Lloret de Mar deputy mayor detained in Russian money-laundering investigation”
    http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/01/29/inenglish/1359483310_781158.html

  • #115403
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    DBMarcos99
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  • #84546
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    DBMarcos99
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    Can anyone verify what is being said in this article? Even I wonder at the figures – although it may be a lot of flights are smaller planes to the 200 seaters we usually use.

    http://www.02b.com/en/notices/2013/04/tsars_of_barcelona_4560.php

    “This summer season, airports in Catalonia are to greet about 200 daily flights from Russia, double the amount compared to a year ago. “

  • #84384
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    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Can anyone verify what is being said in this article? Even I wonder at the figures – although it may be a lot of flights are smaller planes to the 200 seaters we usually use.

    http://www.02b.com/en/notices/2013/04/tsars_of_barcelona_4560.php

    “This summer season, airports in Catalonia are to greet about 200 daily flights from Russia, double the amount compared to a year ago. “

  • #84533
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    Anonymous
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    According to an article today in El Pais, which I will write up in my blog shortly, Russians are now 50pc of the foreign market in Alicante / Costa Blanca. Russians are buyers, Brits are sellers. They’ve gone from 5pc to 50pc in 4 years, and bought 3,500 homes in that region last year.

  • #84372
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    According to an article today in El Pais, which I will write up in my blog shortly, Russians are now 50pc of the foreign market in Alicante / Costa Blanca. Russians are buyers, Brits are sellers. They’ve gone from 5pc to 50pc in 4 years, and bought 3,500 homes in that region last year.

  • #84525
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Well if the Brits weren’t selling, they will be now ๐Ÿ˜†

  • #84366
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Well if the Brits weren’t selling, they will be now ๐Ÿ˜†

  • #84530
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    According to an article today in El Pais, which I will write up in my blog shortly, Russians are now 50pc of the foreign market in Alicante / Costa Blanca. Russians are buyers, Brits are sellers. They’ve gone from 5pc to 50pc in 4 years, and bought 3,500 homes in that region last year.

    Those figures could be misleading. They imply lots more Russians are now buying but it might be the case that a similar number of Russian buyers are now buying compared to 4 years ago, but a lot fewer people from other countries are buying.

  • #84370
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
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    @mark wrote:

    According to an article today in El Pais, which I will write up in my blog shortly, Russians are now 50pc of the foreign market in Alicante / Costa Blanca. Russians are buyers, Brits are sellers. They’ve gone from 5pc to 50pc in 4 years, and bought 3,500 homes in that region last year.

    Those figures could be misleading. They imply lots more Russians are now buying but it might be the case that a similar number of Russian buyers are now buying compared to 4 years ago, but a lot fewer people from other countries are buying.

  • #84519
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
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    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    Can anyone verify what is being said in this article? Even I wonder at the figures – although it may be a lot of flights are smaller planes to the 200 seaters we usually use.

    http://www.02b.com/en/notices/2013/04/tsars_of_barcelona_4560.php

    “This summer season, airports in Catalonia are to greet about 200 daily flights from Russia, double the amount compared to a year ago. “

    Well it seems as though that website has mis-translated the original story.
    Yes, the number of flights from Russia to Catalunya will double this summer to 200. But weekly, not daily! (and Russia in a loose sense, it includes the Ukraine and other ex soviet countries)

    http://www.hosteltur.com/141240_cataluna-recibira-200-vuelos-semanales-europa.html

  • #84268
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    DBMarcos99
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    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    Can anyone verify what is being said in this article? Even I wonder at the figures – although it may be a lot of flights are smaller planes to the 200 seaters we usually use.

    http://www.02b.com/en/notices/2013/04/tsars_of_barcelona_4560.php

    “This summer season, airports in Catalonia are to greet about 200 daily flights from Russia, double the amount compared to a year ago. “

    Well it seems as though that website has mis-translated the original story.
    Yes, the number of flights from Russia to Catalunya will double this summer to 200. But weekly, not daily! (and Russia in a loose sense, it includes the Ukraine and other ex soviet countries)

    http://www.hosteltur.com/141240_cataluna-recibira-200-vuelos-semanales-europa.html

  • #84034
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @mgspain wrote:

    So it’s not the Russians (it’s several countries) and it’s not 200 flights a day, and the Russians are 24th in terms of number of foreign nationals living in Barcelona.

    What we do have is a travel industry website, and not a very good one at that.

    Got it, thanks.

    The doubling of flights per week, from 100 to 200 from those destinations, to Catalunya, is fairly impressive don’t you think?
    We need a Russian speaker here, to tell us what this forum is talking about/ โ“ I wonder if there’s an equivalent of Loganovski on there?
    http://www.forum-spain.ru/index.php

    Edit – using Google translate on that site – very interesting (although translation doesn’t always cpme through). Biggest factor for house buyers appears to be proximity to an airport!

  • #84189
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @mgspain wrote:

    So it’s not the Russians (it’s several countries) and it’s not 200 flights a day, and the Russians are 24th in terms of number of foreign nationals living in Barcelona.

    What we do have is a travel industry website, and not a very good one at that.

    Got it, thanks.

    The doubling of flights per week, from 100 to 200 from those destinations, to Catalunya, is fairly impressive don’t you think?
    We need a Russian speaker here, to tell us what this forum is talking about/ โ“ I wonder if there’s an equivalent of Loganovski on there?
    http://www.forum-spain.ru/index.php

    Edit – using Google translate on that site – very interesting (although translation doesn’t always cpme through). Biggest factor for house buyers appears to be proximity to an airport!

  • #84026
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Yes, it would be very informative if we got a Russian(s) posting on here…

    Here’s a piece from El Pais. Seems there is a Russian effect in Alicante too (not just Catalunya)

    http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/04/25/inenglish/1366899081_043011.html

    Clients from Russia have overtaken the British in the foreign home-buyer ranking. Half of the 7,000 residences sold to non-Spaniards in Alicante province last year went to Russian families, a market that represented less than five percent of the total just four years ago.

  • #84173
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    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Yes, it would be very informative if we got a Russian(s) posting on here…

    Here’s a piece from El Pais. Seems there is a Russian effect in Alicante too (not just Catalunya)

    http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/04/25/inenglish/1366899081_043011.html

    Clients from Russia have overtaken the British in the foreign home-buyer ranking. Half of the 7,000 residences sold to non-Spaniards in Alicante province last year went to Russian families, a market that represented less than five percent of the total just four years ago.

  • #83244
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    pizzacheaze
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