The future of Murcia

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  • #55393
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I want to hear opinions on the future of Murcia.

    As many of you know, Murcia specialised in inland golf developments during the boom. Demand for that kind of product was almost exclusively British. Now the market is dead.

    But is it just the economy and the pound, or is there something more fundamental? Think 10 – 20 years ahead, when the credit crunch is forgotten, do you think there will be demand for this product over the long term, or was the last 10 years just a freak period in which it was possible to sell anything to gullible ‘investors’?

    When the pound recovers, will living or holidaying on golf developments in Murcia still appeal to British buyers? If not why not, and what would you have to offer to entice end users to rent or buy on housing projects in Murcia?

    Does Murcia have any hope of becoming the Arizona of Europe, where northern Europeans relocate or pass the winter?

    To a certain extent, the future of the Murcian economy is at stake.

    Mark

  • #96131
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    I want to hear opinions on the future of Murcia.

    As many of you know, Murcia specialised in inland golf developments during the boom. Demand for that kind of product was almost exclusively British. Now the market is dead.

    But is it just the economy and the pound, or is there something more fundamental? Think 10 – 20 years ahead, when the credit crunch is forgotten, do you think there will be demand for this product over the long term, or was the last 10 years just a freak period in which it was possible to sell anything to gullible ‘investors’?

    When the pound recovers, will living or holidaying on golf developments in Murcia still appeal to British buyers? If not why not, and what would you have to offer to entice end users to rent or buy on housing projects in Murcia?

    Does Murcia have any hope of becoming the Arizona of Europe, where northern Europeans relocate or pass the winter?

    To a certain extent, the future of the Murcian economy is at stake.

    Mark

    Firstly, Almeria could become the Arizona of Europe. Murcia is not as arid, for me it looks like parts of California (Central Valley or along the coast around San Luis Obispo in Caliifornia).

    Secondly, Murcia could be divided in several areas:
    1) Aguilas and surrounding
    2) Mazarron and surroundings#
    3) Cartagena and surroundings
    4) La Manga del Mar Menor and surroundings
    5) Alhama de Murcia and surroundings
    6) Lorca and surroundings
    7) city of Murcia and surroundings
    8 golf resorts of Polaris World type

    I like very much the city of Cartagena, the area around Alhama de Murcia, the city of Murcia and some parts of the region around Puerto de Mazarron. I think that people (especially Spaniards) are coming there and will continue to come.
    La Manga del Mar Menor region (including Los Alcazares and others) is OK, overbuilt but still decent.

    I have never stopped in Lorca so I cannot comment.

    I do not think that the golf resorts of Polaris World type have much future. Besides,
    there seem to be some problems with their location as people who live in La Torre resort found out in September when floods covered up a big part of the resort.

    My forecast would be that Murcia can have a bright future but people should avoid buying too far away from the Coast (never buy in areas like Camposol!!). And the authoritiers should prohibit the building of any more golf course and preserve the water for better purposes.

  • #96141
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    When the pound recovers, will living or holidaying on golf developments in Murcia still appeal to British buyers? …

    I think the whole ‘Place in the sun’ culture that has existed over the last 10 yrs is changing. The major factors in this change include,
    Corruption / Land Grab
    Apparent lack of protection from Spanish Legal system;
    Dis -interest from spanish legislature in fixing problems and/or helping those innocently caught up in these situations, and also punishing corrupt individuals;
    Value of £
    Other options available
    Recession & reduction in disposable income.

    It depends what is meant by recovery of £. Will it ever return to 1.5 euros to £…..? I have my doubts. What is going to drive this recovery…UK industry……? This is a global recession….we’re basically screwed until the US starts to show some serious signs of recovery.

    Looking 10 – 20 yrs ahead is almost impossible ( certainly in these economic conditions ) but I think the Murcia golf resort / property markets are going to struggle over the next 3 yrs or so,…..and if the spanish don’t get the corruption / land grab issues resolved, and give any potential customers the confidence to buy…it could be longer.

    The spanish gov’t should have some serious decisions to make to help restore the confidence of overseas buyers, and investors….Will they step up to the plate..? Who knows.
    Maybe they don’t want a return to the levels of overseas buyers seen during the boom times..?

  • #96157
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I want to hear opinions on the future of Murcia.
    Yes, they have ruined the landscape and created concrete jungles, now they have time to think what they have done.

    “As many of you know, Murcia specialised in inland golf developments during the boom.”
    All their eggs…….. What did they expect?

    Demand for that kind of product was almost exclusively British. Now the market is dead.
    Thank goodness for that. Now what other place can they pick on to destroy?

    But is it just the economy and the pound
    Yes. If people could walk in to a bank and get the money, they would. Some never learn.

    Think 10 – 20 years ahead
    And mass demolition of what will be by then slums, due to the poor construction of many of the properties and lack of maintenance due to lack of funds.

    do you think there will be demand for this product over the long term, or was the last 10 years just a freak period in which it was possible to sell anything to gullible ‘investors’?
    Always a demand when money is easy to come by.
    Same as people forgot the last recession, hence the boom in buy to let in UK.
    Some have short memories and also never learn

    When the pound recovers, will living or holidaying on golf developments in Murcia still appeal to British buyers?
    Unless developers lure them elsewhere and provide them with the same rose tinted glasses that they have done in the last 10 years.

    If not why not, and what would you have to offer to entice end users to rent or buy on housing projects in Murcia?
    As has been done in the past. Tell them they are guaranteed to make money and mortgages are easy to get. Why buy just one. Why not two or three?

    Does Murcia have any hope of becoming the Arizona of Europe, where northern Europeans relocate or pass the winter?
    What is the punch line for that joke?

    To a certain extent, the future of the Murcian economy is at stake.
    God help if those are in charge for the future are those that were in charge of the past.

  • #96158
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’ve just come across this quote on a Spanish forum and thought I’d share it with you – to me it pretty much sums the Murcian situation prior to 2006 –

    “We are envious because Spain itself boasts the best features of other European countries: wages Portuguese, German prices, taxes, Swedish, Bulgarian corruption, honesty, Romanian, Italian politics, Albanian banking, healthcare French and British conceit.”

  • #96159
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The Entertainer (Wednesday 20 January 2010) states:
    “A consortium of Chinese businessmen is to build a tourist/residential/business complex just outside the Murcian town of Lorca, with an investment of about a billion euros according to reports. Building to start in 2011, the 300Ha complex will include a Chinese-themed leisure park, some 2,000 homes, shops, a five star hotel, a casino, a golf course and a business area of around 19 hectares slated to become the central foothold for Chinese business in Europe”.

    Well that will certainly have an up-market effect on the area.
    Chinese lanterns lighting up the night sky, Chinese dragons everywhere coupled with the smell of Chop Suey wafting in the air – lovely! Just what people want when they go to Spain.
    Marks asks: “…will living or holidaying on golf developments in Murcia still appeal to British buyers”?
    If they like Chinese food they’ll love this one…..

    Meanwhile, google these 3 words: Spain Murcia corruption and enjoy a good read.
    Spain has to first sort out the illegal properties otherwise people will simply feel their legal documents (building licences, bank gurarantees, contracts) cannot be trusted. They can’t build a new dream on quicksand.

    So there we have it from Team D&G (doom and gloom).
    Now it’s the turn of Team O&H (optimistic and hopeful) for that much-craved for balance.

  • #96160
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Remember someone (Bernard?) writing on here a couple of years ago that the Chinese were coming, and the complex Charlie refers to bears that out.

    The Chinese nouveau rich has only relatively recently discovered golf and a Chinaman, Zhang Lian-We, has already played at the Masters. Golf clubs and players are proliferating there.

    Outbound travel is another area currently booming, with Louis Vuitton a lot cheaper to buy in Europe than it is in Beijing.

    Wouldn’t be at all surprised to see the Murcian golf complexes starting to look towards China, rather than Northern Europe, for its core business.

  • #96161
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Now there’s a good business idea – set up a Chinese Language School for Estate Agents.

  • #96162
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Most of them are still struggling to speak a few words of Spanish 😆

    Are the Chinese any good at English breakfasts 😉

  • #96165
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I thought the “clappy” brigade would be putting lots of positives forward for this thread….you had a good opening 😕 Or is the Chinese moving in a positive? Remember I only came in at the end 😀

  • #96167
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    I thought the “clappy” brigade would be putting lots of positives forward for this thread….you had a good opening 😕 😀

    Nope not my kind of opening, as a righteous “happy clapper” am afraid I can’t get too positive about Murcia, each to their own area I think.

  • #96168
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Maybe Mark would like to give his thoughts.

  • #96169
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Chinese do already own some of the todo shops in Lorca and 2 WOK’s have opened here however the latter are far from busy as the people of Lorca are not yet ready for this type of cuisine unlike areas, even in Murcia, where expats abound so will believe the news about a Chinese consortium building this type of complex 🙄 when it is reported via the local grapevine.
    Personally I would read “just outside Lorca” to mean nearer Alicante 😆

  • #96171
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Methinks something strange about all those Chinese restaurants. The nearest one to me is always empty and has been for years. One small block of 6 shops has two! How can they survive.

  • #96173
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    I understand the one in Torrevieja is doing exceedingly well 😉 .
    But what I would really like is a decent Indian restaurant in the area but then they are not as wealthy as the Chino’s

  • #96176
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This development is meant to be really close to Lorca and together with the new high speed rail link between Murcia and Cartagena it is suggested that it will bring a tremendous amount of financial improvement to the area. Employment and commerce will benefit as well as the tourist trade. Dont forget that there is also to be thre new airport in Corvera which is also expected to open at the end of this year (manana willing) progress slowed through last year because of financial constraints but apparently work has cointinued albeit slowly. All told these are surely positives for the region.

    As for living on a golf resort- generally full time residents are a small percentage but the reduced property prices has seen an influx of Spanish people buying either as 1st time homes or as family holiday apartments. I think thats good news because these resorts often became Spanish’lite’ and thats less likely nowand boosts residency.

  • #96180
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @melosine wrote:

    so will believe the news about a Chinese consortium building this type of complex 🙄 when it is reported via the local grapevine.

    Oh Melosine…La Verdad is the truth, and nothing but the truth, no? 😮

    http://www.laverdad.es/murcia/20091110/local/lorca/empresarios-chinos-invertiran-millones-200911101422.html

  • #96183
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Well !!!!! What can one say .
    To have been reported over 2 months ago and sans local gossip ? I shall have to inquire of my Spanish contacts tomorrow.
    Good job Lorca mayor et al aren’t corrupt because it carries the death sentence in China 🙄

  • #96185
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @melosine wrote:

    To have been reported over 2 months ago and sans local gossip ? I shall have to inquire of my Spanish contacts tomorrow.

    Maybe no-one knew anything about it because as the article states: “todas las negociaciones se han llevado “con la máxima discreción para evitar interferencias en el proyecto”
    (all negotiations have been “with the utmost discretion to avoid interference in the project”).

    So that’s one way to avoid the locals objecting – don’t tell them anything. 😆

  • #96186
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Found this,
    The park is planned for a finca called El Churtal which owns an area of more than 3 million square metres in the district of La Tova.
    La Tova is nearer Totana and at least 20km away from Lorca town so in the outback. Total inhabitants 540 living over 43,762 sq.m area
    To reach the core of the parish one should take the road that is named, and part of Guadalentín River Bridge, better known as Town Bridge.

    However
    The PSOE have already criticized the project, expressing their belief that it won’t actually go ahead as approval for the building has not yet been fully obtained. They are also asking where the money will come from to build the necessary roads and additional services that will be required for a complex of this size.

    Think it is hot air because our mayor fancied a free trip to China 🙄

  • #96187
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dont worry about the chinese. All is a lie. A very stupid one. Our major should dedicante his time to more productive and realistic projects.

  • #96188
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oh! 🙁

    So we won’t be hearing choruses of “xī bān yá wàn suì bào” then on a Saturday night……(‘Viva la España’ in Chinese).
    That could have been fun, all washed down with a nice glass of rice wine.

    Wish I’d never mentioned the bally Chinese in the first place now, I must remember not to believe everything I read……

  • #96189
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I haven’t heard anything about this but it sounds like total cobblers to me.
    Mark

  • #96197
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    The last thing in the world Murcia needs right now is another so called golf resort. If you visit these places that have been built you will witness a waste land with a handful of players on the courses at any one time. They are currently out numbered by the army of groundsmen and machinery operatives trying to find something to do.
    The courses are surrounded with empty apartments and houses bearing ‘Se-Vende’ signs, usually bearing a bank name.
    Financially these places must be running at a heavy loss with a bleak long term future. Polaris World, one of the pioneers of such development is as good as bankrupt. If they could not make it pay with their overpriced and heavily hyped concept I doubt others can.
    How many folks on holiday are willing to pay £80 for a game of golf? The sheer number of such places in Murcia defies all basic economic common sense of supply and demand. The winter climate in the region is cold and very often wet. They even had snow this year.
    Murcia should stick to plastic agriculture. That at least has an economic future.

  • #96398
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Personally as someone who hates golf I like it as it is. They are attempting to build one on the road from Lorca to Águilas but that is mired with scandal with the Police currently saying they have the developer bang to rights as to where the money came from to pay off for the change of the land from rustic to Urban. They are still trying to rope in unsuspecting buyers and yet the whole lot could go down the same road as many others and all end in tears for buyers. The council run golf driving range ( funded by developers ) has been shut down before the crash due to lack of use.Before anyone comments on the road infrastructure that is all being upgraded on the dual carriageway to Águilas this is to allow the road to become a motorway, & nothing to do with the Golf resort although they have put in access roads.

    Yes there are chinese restaurants in Lorca, 9 of them & they’ve all been here the 8 yrs. I’ve lived here and with the same owners, & the food is excellent.This doesn’t include the new one in the new shopping centre. Yes they speak Chinese & Spanish as the majority are Spanish citizens! But they don’t speak English,I’ve not found one yet. Yes they are busy not at 8 or 9 pm. but from then on they are busy both eat in & takeaway.
    They are even busier at midday when you can’t get in for Spanish pensioners having meal of the day @5,95! I can’t eat it it’s far too much food for me. There are nearly 2000 people of Chinese descent on the padron apparently. The ‘Todo’ shops,and the restaurants, keep their costs down by buying as a group even though they are all independant. Like a Chinese Spar.

    Proyecto ZEIC ,see here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=e64ac7e4567fff02035802d7ca231387&t=1002749
    was a secret to prevent other regions trying to steal it away. When you are trying for a billion euro investment you don’t shout it to the world until it’s a done deal. The area La Tova where the finca El Churtal is located is approx. 26kms. N/w of Lorca very close to the village of La Parroquia & as this road comes back in by Lorca castle and is a bottleneck it would appear we will be getting a new access direct onto the autovia. You can also read what the Spanish think on that site.

    “To reach the core of the parish one should take the road that is named, and part of Guadalentín River Bridge, better known as Town Bridge.”
    This is the road and bridge out past Lorca castle.

    Janha, I saw that the airport opening has been put back until sept./oct. 2011 now.
    As regards Spaniards from up north buying in the coastal areas, they own most of the homes already and have done for many, many years.Águilas, Puerto de Mazzaron,Calabardina,Isla Plana, La Azohia etc; etc; the vast majority owned by Madrileños, Galicians etc. They turn up july/agust and that’s it for the year, except occasionally Águilas where they might come for the carnival in february. All the locals I know here in Lorca have another house / apartment in Águilas that they use in the months of july/august and for the carnival. Other than that it’s empty the rest of the year. it’s why some of these places look like ghost towns.
    One of the main reasons the new Autopista, from Vera to Cartaghena was built was to open up all this stretch of coast to tourism, with Warren Buffets consortium proposing to build some fantastically sized development at Cabo Cope. But that appears to be a long way off in the current financial climate . Even the builder of the autopista is unlikley to recoup his money even though he has a 36 year lease to get back his building costs. The minimum traffic flow predicted was 7000 vehicles a day, the best so far was August 2008 (when it hadn’t been open long ) of 3500 vehicles. July 2009 it was down to 2500. Most of the traffic is fuel tankers from Cartaghena to Almeria as it is shorter both i kms. & drivers hrs. Yes , there are some lovely areas syill around the Murcian coast but only because the developers have not got in their mainly due to the past poor access. I for one hope that it remains that way but it is up to the Spaniards. If they think that this will bring prosperity, jobs & better wages ,in what is one of the poorest regions of Spain, then far be it for me to complain.

  • #96399
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In fact if you go here, http://www.zeic.es/ or here , http://www.zeic.es/zeic_informe.pdf you can read about it in Spanish, English or Chinese! The 2nd is the pdf d/load that gives you a description of each zone plus a time layout. I want to see the pagoda roofed historical buildings done in concrete.lol.

  • #96500
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well i’m off to Murcia in May, to my penthouse at La Torre 😀 .

    As a golf nut i’m off to play golf, more golf and some more golf, couldn’t give a monkeys about anything more.

    I see this forum is still sounding a bit like a broken record from 2007.

    Where will Murcia be in 10 years, couldn’t give a monkeys, perfectly happy with where it is now, tons of golf courses, perfectly happy.

  • #96501
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    Where will Murcia be in 10 years, couldn’t give a monkeys, perfectly happy with where it is now, tons of golf courses, perfectly happy.

    Ignorance is bliss. Be happy that you are the way you are.

  • #96508
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    and they keep looking in the mirror so sad you keep believing

  • #96509
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    Where will Murcia be in 10 years, couldn’t give a monkeys, perfectly happy with where it is now, tons of golf courses, perfectly happy.

    Ignorance is bliss. Be happy that you are the way you are.

    What is there to be ignorant about:

    1. Corvera airport should (no guarantees) be opening up next year.

    2. I wouldn’t classify Murcia as a WOW! area but it will steadily improve and mature. Even if it doesn’t ‘ve bought on a largely self contained complex. A few beaches, La Manga, Murcia City etc etc, enough for me, i’m there for the golf.

    3. Mass development has largely ceased, polaris has gone next to bump but that was invevitable and the impact on completed resorts should be manageable, the courses will principally stay open as profit centres.

    4. Other resorts have problems, Tramps is a mess, 3 molinos a bit of a mess etc etc etc. Implications for some but I bought resale at a good resort hence one persons loss is anothers gain. Unfortunate, but thats the way of the world, don’t buy offplan, its risky buying a pdf impression of 5 years from now when in reality its field or something.

    5. I’ve had people go to La Torre and they love the place, horses for courses etc. Climate is great. Interest rates cheap although this is a ‘rich’ persons toy thing. Not for you Savvy investors 😀 .

    Murcia is a golf area, its for golfers, I don’t give a frigging monkeys if the beach is a 20 minutes drive from the resort 😛 .

    In the long run we’re all dead.

  • #96510
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @alanrthornton wrote:

    and they keep looking in the mirror so sad you keep believing

    Do you think, as it’s a New Year, you can come up with a new phrase? You rather flogged that one to death last year.
    Also, as you seem to be averse to being ‘shot down’, possibly less antagonistic posts towards other members may help.

  • #96511
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    In the long run we’re all dead.

    Mary (the racehorse) – I don’t often agree with you but you’re certainly right there. 😆

  • #96512
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    5. I’ve had people go to La Torre and they love the place, horses for courses etc. Climate is great. Interest rates cheap although this is a ‘rich’ persons toy thing. Not for you Savvy investors 😀 .
    .

    September 2009 was an excellent for La Torre…

    Like this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1XiWCRfzsA

    or like this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ-zuoMAcf0

    Did they tell you how they are going to avoid catastrophic floods in the future?

    Did they demolished the affected buildings? Is the house insurace triple now as compared to last year?

  • #96514
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Did they tell you how they are going to avoid catastrophic floods in the future?

    Did they demolished the affected buildings? Is the house insurace triple now as compared to last year?

    They built (are building) a flood defence (improved drainage etc), the floods were to some extent exceptional, no demolishment although a clean up, if you went now you wouldn’t even notice the flood impact, my village in the UK got worse flooding 3 years ago, no would have noticed a thing 6 months later, these things happen.

    The floods particularly impacted 2 phases on the course, one phase which got the worst of it got particularly badly hit. But no chance of demolishion, I think they did suffer damp etc, but thats what insurance is for. The insurance will risk assess based on the new drainage etc. Premiums will increase obviously, but again these are exceptional circumstances and flood provisions have lagely been put in place.

    Hardly the end of the world stuff,a freeky occurance in some respects, never suffered in the slightest in my phase.

  • #96515
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    It wasn’t so good in Cockermouth either 😆

  • #96516
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @flosmichael wrote:

    Did they tell you how they are going to avoid catastrophic floods in the future?

    Did they demolished the affected buildings? Is the house insurace triple now as compared to last year?

    They built (are building) a flood defence (improved drainage etc), the floods were to some extent exceptional, no demolishment although a clean up, if you went now you wouldn’t even notice the flood impact, my village in the UK got worse flooding 3 years ago, no would have noticed a thing 6 months later, these things happen.
    place.
    .

    From I read at the time (September 2009), some people were implying that the resort was build in a flow area. But a flood defence would help, I wonder why didn’t they build it in the first place…

  • #96518
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    @flosmichael wrote:

    Did they tell you how they are going to avoid catastrophic floods in the future?

    Did they demolished the affected buildings? Is the house insurace triple now as compared to last year?

    They built (are building) a flood defence (improved drainage etc), the floods were to some extent exceptional, no demolishment although a clean up, if you went now you wouldn’t even notice the flood impact, my village in the UK got worse flooding 3 years ago, no would have noticed a thing 6 months later, these things happen.
    place.
    .

    From I read at the time (September 2009), some people were implying that the resort was build in a flow area. But a flood defence would help, I wonder why didn’t they build it in the first place…

    How often do these things occur?, once in 10-15 year, how many places in Murcia have much if any drainage, of course Polaris thought chances of it happening etc and didn’t put in any provisions, but thats life with any developer.

    A flow trench has been put in place (nothing big), along with improve drainage and a breach in one wall and a number of garages have had there entrances raised. Next time it happens (probably in 10 years), any impact will be minimalised.

    Come the summer everyone will be on about Murcia gets no rain and the area can’t cope with the number of courses etc.

  • #96521
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    Come the summer everyone will be on about Murcia gets no rain and the area can’t cope with the number of courses etc.

    One bad thing about Murcia is that the Sun is not guaranteed in July-August.
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    In Malaga I have not seen any cloud in 7 days at the beggining of August 2009.

  • #96523
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I don’t think Murcia is any wetter than Málaga. Have known it rain on the CDS in August too, not very often but there can be freak days.

  • #96525
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @gus-lopez wrote:

    One bad thing about Murcia is that the Sun is not guaranteed in July-August.
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    In Malaga I have not seen any cloud in 7 days at the beggining of August 2009.

    Depends where you are. We only had 1 day when it rained for a short while in july / August, 2008. The only time we can expect rain here in Lorca is the last week in Sept., when the feria is on and then again whenever easter is for the semana santa parades. In fact we’ve even had less cloud this year than usual and apart from 1 day’s rain ,3 weeks ago & 4 hours yesterday morning the sun’s been out every day. Perhaps that’s why it’s called ‘The city of the sun’. :mrgreen:

    OK, you might be right.

    When we went to Los Alcazares in July 2008, we had 2 days of rain. Both days we went all the way to Aguilas and Puerto Mazarron where it was sunny…

    So maybe I rephrase: in Los Alcazares area seems to rain more than in Mijas area…

  • #96530
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    Great, that’ll do the golf courses some good.

    If you look at the averages:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/30-murcia-weather

    Murcia is on average 4 degrees higher temp. and half the rainfall of Spain as a total in average, where do want to go with this?.

  • #96531
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Possibly to the Russian Front. 🙁

  • #96533
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @flosmichael wrote:
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    Great, that’ll do the golf courses some good.

    If you look at the averages:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/30-murcia-weather

    Murcia is on average 4 degrees higher temp. and half the rainfall of Spain as a total in average, where do want to go with this?.

    Hi Mary,

    to have clouds 2 out of 10 days was not pleasant from my point of view. For a golfer it is probably excellent.

    Where I wanted to go was to point out that the climate in Murcia is not the best that one can find in Spain.

    Don’t get me wrong, as I wrote in one other post I like it in Murcia and I shall definitely go back. But it will be somewhere around Cartagena or Los Boliches.

    And no, I do not play golf…

  • #96534
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    @flosmichael wrote:
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    Great, that’ll do the golf courses some good.

    If you look at the averages:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/30-murcia-weather

    Murcia is on average 4 degrees higher temp. and half the rainfall of Spain as a total in average, where do want to go with this?.

    Hi Mary,

    to have clouds 2 out of 10 days was not pleasant from my point of view.

    Is this some sort of joke? :P. I’m meant to be taking this seriously?. I put a statistic up showing temperature and rainfall figures of the area and you reply in manner even Julian Clary would deem overtly camp.

  • #96536
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @flosmichael wrote:
    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    @flosmichael wrote:
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    Great, that’ll do the golf courses some good.

    If you look at the averages:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/30-murcia-weather

    Murcia is on average 4 degrees higher temp. and half the rainfall of Spain as a total in average, where do want to go with this?.

    Hi Mary,

    to have clouds 2 out of 10 days was not pleasant from my point of view.

    Is this some sort of joke? :P. I’m meant to be taking this seriously?. I put a statistic up showing temperature and rainfall figures of the area and you reply in manner even Julian Clary would deem overtly camp.

    Statistics from kyero… 😀

    What about this one:

    Murcia-sunshine hours in August 2009

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=08&YY=2009&WMO=08430&LANG=en&SID=084303e5f9c01bb0a9cee18b75e4a5def3684a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Malaga-sunshine hours in August 2009

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?LANG=en&PLZ=_____&PLZN=_____&WMO=08482&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP&MM=08&YY=2009&WEEK=4&NOREGION=1&MOD=&TMX=&TMN=&SON=&PRE=&MONAT=&OFFS=&SORT=

    As you see, Malaga has no day with less than 8 hours of sunshine per day.

    Murcia has two days with 2 and 4 days of sunshine. Of course, these are the exact days I was there but I did not care as I was driving…

    Also in July 2008:

    Murcia-sunshine hours

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=07&YY=2008&WMO=08430&LANG=en&SID=084303e5f9c01bb0a9cee18b75e4a5def3684a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Malaga sunshine hours:

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=07&YY=2008&WMO=08482&LANG=en&SID=08482b6ecf7b15ee8a797b287e7b849faa675a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Murcia had at least 3 bad days in July 2008 and Malaga none.

    Of course it does not make big difference, but somebody who goes for a 7 day holiday and has 2 cloudy days might not be happy (unless the holiday is for boozing or for playing golf…).

  • #96537
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Unfortunately you are comparing a town ,Malaga, that’s on the coast , to a town, Murcia that’s 70+kms inland.A truer representation would be a comparison with Águilas or Mazarron.

  • #96538
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @gus-lopez wrote:

    Unfortunately you are comparing a town ,Malaga, that’s on the coast , to a town, Murcia that’s 70+kms inland.A truer representation would be a comparison with Águilas or Mazarron.

    OK, take Alicante:

    Alicante in August 2009:

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=08&YY=2009&WMO=08360&LANG=en&SID=083602b448be0ceb1f4c24f66b20e889e3cc3a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Alicante in July 2008:

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=07&YY=2008&WMO=08360&LANG=en&SID=083602b448be0ceb1f4c24f66b20e889e3cc3a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    It is almost identical to Murcia…

    the weather history in Aguilas is mistery. 😀

  • #96539
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    @flosmichael wrote:
    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    @flosmichael wrote:
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    Great, that’ll do the golf courses some good.

    If you look at the averages:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/30-murcia-weather

    Murcia is on average 4 degrees higher temp. and half the rainfall of Spain as a total in average, where do want to go with this?.

    Hi Mary,

    to have clouds 2 out of 10 days was not pleasant from my point of view.

    Is this some sort of joke? :P. I’m meant to be taking this seriously?. I put a statistic up showing temperature and rainfall figures of the area and you reply in manner even Julian Clary would deem overtly camp.

    Statistics from kyero… 😀

    What about this one:

    Murcia-sunshine hours in August 2009

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=08&YY=2009&WMO=08430&LANG=en&SID=084303e5f9c01bb0a9cee18b75e4a5def3684a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Malaga-sunshine hours in August 2009

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?LANG=en&PLZ=_____&PLZN=_____&WMO=08482&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP&MM=08&YY=2009&WEEK=4&NOREGION=1&MOD=&TMX=&TMN=&SON=&PRE=&MONAT=&OFFS=&SORT=

    As you see, Malaga has no day with less than 8 hours of sunshine per day.

    Murcia has two days with 2 and 4 days of sunshine. Of course, these are the exact days I was there but I did not care as I was driving…

    Also in July 2008:

    Murcia-sunshine hours

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=07&YY=2008&WMO=08430&LANG=en&SID=084303e5f9c01bb0a9cee18b75e4a5def3684a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Malaga sunshine hours:

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=07&YY=2008&WMO=08482&LANG=en&SID=08482b6ecf7b15ee8a797b287e7b849faa675a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Murcia had at least 3 bad days in July 2008 and Malaga none.

    Of course it does not make big difference, but somebody who goes for a 7 day holiday and has 2 cloudy days might not be happy (unless the holiday is for boozing or for playing golf…).

    Are you joking me, you are picking a single month, of course someone might in a holiday have a bad day, its sods law.

    The argument against Murcia having so many golf courses was that it is too dry, you on the other hand think its too wet, you’ve managed on the basis of your two day drive to turn the fundamental reason for not having so many golf courses in the area completely on its head.

    The area must have some rain, its a golf course area, of course it doesn’t need masses because they use bermuda grass, thats right its a wet area according to you, so what do they do, use bermuda grass, a drought resistant grass, makes sense doesn’t it 😛 .

    Murcia has a excellent climate, in fact if anything its too dry. That in many respects was the main reason there was initially amazement they put so many golf courses in the area.

    Of course here on Spanishpropertyflussyflossypadding you can’t even recognise the fundamental basic problem (too little rainfall) with much of the area. You managed to totally miss that one and instead decide its a bit wet.

    Here’s the average rainfall for malaga:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/29-malaga-weather

    Malaga 42 64 48 39 17 2 3 5 6 44 82 93

    Murcia 18 24 22 44 29 9 0 7 21 24 38 45

    Not exactly a world of difference, in fact as a all year round golfing destination Murcia wins hands down in some respects.

  • #96540
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @flosmichael wrote:
    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    @flosmichael wrote:
    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    @flosmichael wrote:
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    Great, that’ll do the golf courses some good.

    If you look at the averages:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/30-murcia-weather

    Murcia is on average 4 degrees higher temp. and half the rainfall of Spain as a total in average, where do want to go with this?.

    Hi Mary,

    to have clouds 2 out of 10 days was not pleasant from my point of view.

    Is this some sort of joke? :P. I’m meant to be taking this seriously?. I put a statistic up showing temperature and rainfall figures of the area and you reply in manner even Julian Clary would deem overtly camp.

    Statistics from kyero… 😀

    What about this one:

    Murcia-sunshine hours in August 2009

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=08&YY=2009&WMO=08430&LANG=en&SID=084303e5f9c01bb0a9cee18b75e4a5def3684a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Malaga-sunshine hours in August 2009

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?LANG=en&PLZ=_____&PLZN=_____&WMO=08482&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP&MM=08&YY=2009&WEEK=4&NOREGION=1&MOD=&TMX=&TMN=&SON=&PRE=&MONAT=&OFFS=&SORT=

    As you see, Malaga has no day with less than 8 hours of sunshine per day.

    Murcia has two days with 2 and 4 days of sunshine. Of course, these are the exact days I was there but I did not care as I was driving…

    Also in July 2008:

    Murcia-sunshine hours

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=07&YY=2008&WMO=08430&LANG=en&SID=084303e5f9c01bb0a9cee18b75e4a5def3684a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Malaga sunshine hours:

    http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?WEEK=04&MM=07&YY=2008&WMO=08482&LANG=en&SID=08482b6ecf7b15ee8a797b287e7b849faa675a&ART=SON&CONT=euro&R=0&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=150&REGION=0005&LAND=SP

    Murcia had at least 3 bad days in July 2008 and Malaga none.

    Of course it does not make big difference, but somebody who goes for a 7 day holiday and has 2 cloudy days might not be happy (unless the holiday is for boozing or for playing golf…).

    Are you joking me, you are picking a single month, of course someone might in a holiday have a bad day, its sods law.

    The argument against Murcia having so many golf courses was that it is too dry, you on the other hand think its too wet, you’ve managed on the basis of your two day drive to turn the fundamental reason for not having so many golf courses in the area completely on its head.

    The area must have some rain, its a golf course area, of course it doesn’t need masses because they use bermuda grass, thats right its a wet area according to you, so what do they do, use bermuda grass, a drought resistant grass, makes sense doesn’t it 😛 .

    Murcia has a excellent climate, in fact if anything its too dry. That in many respects was the main reason there was initially amazement they put so many golf courses in the area.

    Of course here on Spanishpropertyflussyflossypadding you can’t even recognise the fundamental basic problem (too little rainfall) with much of the area. You managed to totally miss that one and instead decide its a bit wet.

    Here’s the average rainfall for malaga:

    http://www.kyero.com/weather/29-malaga-weather

    Malaga 42 64 48 39 17 2 3 5 6 44 82 93

    Murcia 18 24 22 44 29 9 0 7 21 24 38 45

    Not exactly a world of difference, in fact as a all year round golfing dest

    nation Murcia wins hands down in some respects.

    There is no connection between what I wrote and what you wrote. As usual, you wrote a lot of nonsense without saying anything…

  • #96541
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    In the long run we’re all dead.

    Mary (the racehorse) – I don’t often agree with you but you’re certainly right there. 😆

    You don’t agree with me, you agree with Milton Keynes.

  • #96542
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    There is no connection between what I wrote and what you wrote. As usual, you wrote a lot of nonsense without saying anything…

    Fluffy

    Even the forum administrator has realised the endless crap people write on this forum by Spanish day trippers/Spanish holiday makers or Sun readers or people who nearly bought but instead spent 3 years trying to get there money back etc isn’t really working.

    I haven’t been on here for yonks, just forgot it existed. When I popped back and saw even the forum administrator was getting bored the endless twaddle, I got interested again 😛 .

  • #96543
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    [

    The argument against Murcia having so many golf courses was that it is too dry, you on the other hand think its too wet, you’ve managed on the basis of your two day drive to turn the fundamental reason for not having so many golf courses in the area completely on its head.
    .

    I never said that it is too wet.

    I said that it has less Sun during the touristy month (July-August than say Malaga.
    And the existence of Sun is for the reason to go to a beach holiday during the Summer

    It has less Sun because it is cloudier.

    Anyway…

  • #96544
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    @Mary Hinge wrote:
    [

    The argument against Murcia having so many golf courses was that it is too dry, you on the other hand think its too wet, you’ve managed on the basis of your two day drive to turn the fundamental reason for not having so many golf courses in the area completely on its head.
    .

    I never said that it is too wet.

    I said that it has less Sun during the touristy month (July-August than say Malaga.
    And the existence of Sun is for the reason to go to a beach holiday during the Summer

    It has less Sun because it is cloudier.

    Anyway…

    I don’t care, i’m bored of your ‘I went on holiday and it rained’, followed by ‘I never said it is too wet’ stuff, combined with a bit of camp ‘it was cloudy for two days and I didn’t like it’, with a bit of ‘I like the sun on the beach’ (on a thread on a golf course area). Its not exactly ‘insight’ is it, more ‘carry on camping’.

  • #96545
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    quite agree mary.
    maybe this site is a platform jump to the next level.
    going to the funny farm, with all these rediculous responces we get.i cant remember how mant other countries that has been debated here, but it does make you wonder!!!
    then books that you can read, etc etc etc.
    then when you see how many here have an input, which is only the same few, it makes you wonder whats the point of it all.
    if it was proactive/ and the few went out there with banners then yes a good place to be, but sadly they cant see the wood for the trees (pun) meant.

  • #96546
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    spain’s a great place to be even if it does rain all the time.

  • #96547
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I actually think this weather stuff is silly too. All parts of Spain have great weather for July and August, a bit of rain/cloud is welcome sometimes.

    However Alan, what insight have you ever given to this forum…nada. 90% abuse and 10% to agree with a few people.

  • #96548
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    actually if you look back its you and your few mates that started the abuse and rudeness, not me. you just did not like what i was saying. even if i was wrong, an opinion is an opinion. (to be debated) i thought. but not by you.
    anyway i read several times that you were not going to respond to my efforts and just ignore me, so that shows me all i need to know about you and your mates. you just cant leave well alone.

  • #96549
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I see posts have disappeared off of this thread. I wonder why?

  • #96552
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Not Thornton’s obviously..what disappeared?

  • #96553
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I asked about what was happening about his house in Salobrena. Didn’t you also reply katy, or am I on the wrong thread?

  • #96554
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
    gus-lopez wrote:
    One bad thing about Murcia is that the Sun is not guaranteed in July-August.
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    In Malaga I have not seen any cloud in 7 days at the beggining of August 2009.

    Depends where you are. We only had 1 day when it rained for a short while in july / August, 2008. The only time we can expect rain here in Lorca is the last week in Sept., when the feria is on and then again whenever easter is for the semana santa parades. In fact we’ve even had less cloud this year than usual and apart from 1 day’s rain ,3 weeks ago & 4 hours yesterday morning the sun’s been out every day. Perhaps that’s why it’s called ‘The city of the sun’. Mr. Green

    OK, you might be right.

    When we went to Los Alcazares in July 2008, we had 2 days of rain. Both days we went all the way to Aguilas and Puerto Mazarron where it was sunny…

    So maybe I rephrase: in Los Alcazares area seems to rain more than in Mijas area..

    And my original post for this has gone as well.It’s only the fact that Flosmichael has replied to it , otherwise I’d think I was going mad.

  • #96556
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    caty why cant you leave it. keep looking in the mirror

  • #96557
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @gus-lopez wrote:

    Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
    gus-lopez wrote:
    One bad thing about Murcia is that the Sun is not guaranteed in July-August.
    We had 2 days of rain in July 2008 (out of 10) and then, when driving from Malaga to Barcelona last year, it was raining like crazy for the 2 days we stayed in Murcia region.

    In Malaga I have not seen any cloud in 7 days at the beggining of August 2009.

    Depends where you are. We only had 1 day when it rained for a short while in july / August, 2008. The only time we can expect rain here in Lorca is the last week in Sept., when the feria is on and then again whenever easter is for the semana santa parades. In fact we’ve even had less cloud this year than usual and apart from 1 day’s rain ,3 weeks ago & 4 hours yesterday morning the sun’s been out every day. Perhaps that’s why it’s called ‘The city of the sun’. Mr. Green

    OK, you might be right.

    When we went to Los Alcazares in July 2008, we had 2 days of rain. Both days we went all the way to Aguilas and Puerto Mazarron where it was sunny…

    So maybe I rephrase: in Los Alcazares area seems to rain more than in Mijas area..

    And my original post for this has gone as well.It’s only the fact that Flosmichael has replied to it , otherwise I’d think I was going mad.

    Unfortunately you are correct, quite Kafkaesque. Everything goes except the stupid abusive Thornton who wants to build a house in a pueblo which he can’t spell. Have you noticed how he calls me caty…all deliberate but NEVER deleted. Not that I care he just demonstrates what an illiterate he is. This place is starting to be mentioned in other forums and it aint me and it aint for it’s insight either!

  • #96558
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    CATY I DONT THINK ANYONE HAS MET SOMEONE AS RUDE AND PATHETIC AS YOU.
    AS I’VE SAID BEFORE GET REAL, OR LEAVE IT. OH BUT YOU CANT CAN YOU.
    MOST PEOPLE HERE KNOW YOU FOR WHAT YOUR WORTH.

    ZERO.
    KEEP IT UP IN THE MIRROR

  • #96559
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Did anyone see the survey carried out by some UK university re. internet users? Publicised this week but I don’t have a link. One of their conclusions was that people with mental health problems are abnormally attracted to the internet. Obviously a couple on this forum verifies this, probably myself too for responding and reading such utter crap, tripe shit whatever is the appropriate word.

  • #96562
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @charlie wrote:
    I don’t often agree with you but you’re certainly right there.

    You don’t agree with me, you agree with Milton Keynes.

    Oh….ok, so we’re playing that one. 🙂
    Well, I suppose it is better to be roughly right than precisely wrong.

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