Spanish property market in 2013

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This topic contains 37 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 3 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #57365
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    About time we started the thread for this year, now we are almost at easter.

    This infographic from Fotocasa on the state of the market to get us going:

  • #116390
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    We only need one word to answer the thread title. It begins with F and ends in D !

  • #116391
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    John (glad I’ve got that right now), as Mark’s post is all in Spanish does your one word mean the same in Spanish? 😉

  • #116394
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It certainly does, although they sometimes spell it with a J and end it with a O 🙂

  • #116395
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    In my part of Spain it starts with a J and ends in an R, ignoring the tenses.

    On a serious note, we all know the main problems with the Spanish property market, over-building and dodgy banks (cajas mainly). And the elephant in the room, the Euro. Spain would be better off out of it.

    Having simplified my analysis by a factor of a thousand, or more, I want to return to the million expats living happily in Spain, like myself.

    I bought the house I currently live in some 17 years ago and paid a few million Pesetas for it. I still have the British obsession with house prices and can say that six years ago it had increased in value by some tenfold, since then it has halved in value from six years ago.

    But it’s all gobbledegook and irrelevant. I’m happy living in Spain and the last thing I would want to do is sell my house in Spain.

    I think Spanish property prices will stop falling this year, where I live they already have. But Spain is a massive country and I can’t speak for the rest of it.

  • #116396
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Not trying to be a cheerleader for Spanish property, but doesn’t this indicate that things improved a bit in the last quarter of last year, especially compared to the last quarter for the other countries listed? If this chart only listed the last quarter, Spain would be the 49th worst, instead of the 54th worst.

    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2013/03/20/spain-bringing-up-the-rear-in-the-2012-knight-frank-global-house-price-index/

  • #116418
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    But Spain is a massive country.

    No it isn’t Rocker, its an average country size as it goes. Same size as France for example.

    Spain would be the 49th worst, instead of the 54th worst.

    😆

  • #116441
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Investment interest in Spain is growing, unlike most other European countries, except Germany:

    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2013/03/24/real-estate-investor-interest-in-spain-is-growing-say-cbre/

  • #116442
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    katy
    Spectator

    Didn’t CBRE recently open an office in Spain 8) 😆

  • #116448
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    😳 in the 80’s actually, underfloorheatingless!! 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳

  • #116449
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    katy
    Spectator

    Ubeda, how old are you….12 🙄 Either that or you are a senile old man :mrgreen:

  • #116453
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Any optimistic assessment of the Spanish property market has just been shot to pieces by the events in Cyprus.

    The signs of recovery in Spain came from foreign buyers/investors, Russians, Scandinavians and Brits among them. Those investors have just suffered heavy losses in Cyprus and most people think of the Mediterranean countries en masse, with Spain heading the list.

    I have to sadly conclude that the chances of recovery this year are highly unlikely.

  • #116475
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    Any optimistic assessment of the Spanish property market has just been shot to pieces by the events in Cyprus.

    The signs of recovery in Spain came from foreign buyers/investors, Russians, Scandinavians and Brits among them. Those investors have just suffered heavy losses in Cyprus and most people think of the Mediterranean countries en masse, with Spain heading the list.

    I have to sadly conclude that the chances of recovery this year are highly unlikely.

    You may be right..but…if the value of the Euro drops as a result of all this (and early indications are that it is doing) then goods, services and indeed property in the Eurozone become cheaper to outside buyers…

    The funny thing is, property owners/buyers have far more cause to be worried by taxes, than by a possible hit on bank balances over 100k, which can be avoided.

  • #116488
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    Anonymous
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    @katy CBRE have been in Marbella for as long as I can recall they were in Ricardo Soriano,across/opposite from the offices of Boca Negra the well respected Gestor of Marbella.

    They are just hopeless and presently working for Lloyds Bank in relation their properties.

    Lloyds Bank, properties are on a PDF format, You have to scroll down, photos are so poor that they are hardly visible, basic information like floor, community charges, etc are not disclosed.

  • #116490
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    The Russian money i.e. the left over & the future deposits may now be diverted towards property purchase in Spain ???

  • #116492
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    You really think they will trust another EU country without stable finances?

  • #85295
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have it on good authority that sales prices in San Cugat – an upmarket residential area of Barcelona – are down more than 60pc from the peak. Prime land prices down even more. The official stats are in Cloud Cuckooland.

  • #85264
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    The bad debt ratio of loans to developers fell a quarterly 23pc in Q4 2012 – the first decline since December 2006, according to figures from the Bank of Spain. Nevertheless, the overall bad debt ratio only fell to 29.5pc, down from a peak of 30pc. Still, it’s a glimmer of good news, of which there hasn’t been much in recent years.

  • #85265
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Average national rental asking prices fell 1.2pc in Q1 2013, to 7.2€/m2, according to figures from the Fotocasa.es database. That puts downward pressure on house prices.

  • #84593
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, the figures from the latest census are shocking. I’m just writing them up now.

  • #84732
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, the figures from the latest census are shocking. I’m just writing them up now.

  • #84598
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @mgspain wrote:

    Mark: This article is saying almost 3.5mil empty homes, half a mil more than the info-graphic, either way, the numbers are staggering.

    “The total number of empty dwellings in Spain is 3.443.365, new figures from Spain’s national statistics institute, the INE, show”

    http://www.thelocal.es/page/view/spains-empty-home-count-hits-new-high#.UXLFTb9zrHg

    The first thing in the article to catch my eye was this:

    There are nearly three and a half million empty homes in Spain, or 10.8 percent more than a decade ago.

    This runs contrary to the commonly held belief that the majority of the empty homes are a result of the recent building boom.

    My gut feeling is the 3.443.365 empty homes figure is much higher than expected because it includes second homes, holiday homes, etc. I think previously people have talked about there being say a million empty homes in Spain when maybe they were really about a million homes that don’t have an owner that isn’t some developer or lending institution. Pass through many small pueblos in the middle of Spain in winter and it would not surprise me if over 50% were empty, their owners living in the nearest city, and using them for holidays. If they are counting these as “empty homes” then the figure isn’t so surprising (or alarming)

  • #84436
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @mgspain wrote:

    Mark: This article is saying almost 3.5mil empty homes, half a mil more than the info-graphic, either way, the numbers are staggering.

    “The total number of empty dwellings in Spain is 3.443.365, new figures from Spain’s national statistics institute, the INE, show”

    http://www.thelocal.es/page/view/spains-empty-home-count-hits-new-high#.UXLFTb9zrHg

    The first thing in the article to catch my eye was this:

    There are nearly three and a half million empty homes in Spain, or 10.8 percent more than a decade ago.

    This runs contrary to the commonly held belief that the majority of the empty homes are a result of the recent building boom.

    My gut feeling is the 3.443.365 empty homes figure is much higher than expected because it includes second homes, holiday homes, etc. I think previously people have talked about there being say a million empty homes in Spain when maybe they were really about a million homes that don’t have an owner that isn’t some developer or lending institution. Pass through many small pueblos in the middle of Spain in winter and it would not surprise me if over 50% were empty, their owners living in the nearest city, and using them for holidays. If they are counting these as “empty homes” then the figure isn’t so surprising (or alarming)

  • #84528
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “The bad debt ratio of loans to developers fell a quarterly 23pc in Q4 2012”

    Is it because they have been taken off the books of the Banks & transfered to SAREB ?

  • #84368
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “The bad debt ratio of loans to developers fell a quarterly 23pc in Q4 2012”

    Is it because they have been taken off the books of the Banks & transfered to SAREB ?

  • #83946
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Are there any reliable sources to find out “achieved” prices per sq metre of property actually sold. I have looked at TINSA and they have a very fancy index but i want to know average “€ per sq metre for sold properties in Malaga province”, for example. Alternatively is there a publicly accessible register of property sales like sites such as ZOOPLA in the UK use for recent sales?

  • #82666
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    More money is now spent on refurbishing property in Spain than building new, according to an official in the Ministry of Public Works / Department of Housing.

    Last year €20.673 billion (sic) was spent on refurbishing, compared to 17.389 billion on new build – the first time ever that has happened.

  • #82661
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    According to a RICS report there has been a “spectacular” increase in foreign investment in Spanish commercial property investment in Q1.

  • #81712
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Banco de espana released figures on friday about the numbers of repossesions for 2012. Around 39k, numbers for evicted rentals was around 80k.

    http://www.bde.es/f/webbde/GAP/Secciones/SalaPrensa/NotasInformativas/Briefing_notes/es/notabe10-05-13.pdf

    Is it true that as soon as you are late with your payments they raise the interest rates to around 20% on your loan?

  • #116979
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Spain Recovery Begins With Sareb Suicide Pact’s Bull: Mortgages

    Spain’s Sareb, set up last year to acquire 90 billion euros ($116 billion) of soured real estate assets at a discount from rescued lenders, is preparing its first sale, known as ‘Project Bull,’ to test the beleaguered property market’s ability to attract investors.

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-05-21/spain-recovery-begins-with-sareb-suicide-pact-s-bull-mortgages

  • #117232
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    According to Eduardo Molet, an “expert” oft-quoted in the Spanish press, this is going to be the worst year on record he agrues, citing the dismal stats on sales in Q1, down 22pc on last year (thanks to the ending of tax breaks for buyers). If sales fell 22pc despite the banks dumping their portfolios, then the “free market” (individual resales) must have been no-existent.

  • #117237
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Consumer confidence plunged 6 points in May and 79pc of Spaniards say the economy is getting worse 😥

    Consumers have to be confident to invest in property.

    That said, my wife works for David Lloyd Tennis clubs in Spain and they smashed all sales records in May, so it can’t be all bad.

  • #117301
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Not all bad Mark but Spain is probably 2 sets down and down 15/40 in the third, but who knows with Nadal playing for them ? 😉

  • #117307
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Malaga province now has more than a thousand homes on sale for less than 60.000

    http://www.diariosur.es/20130606/local/malaga/malaga-ofrece-millar-viviendas-201306060121.html

  • #117365
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    katy
    Spectator

    House price falls worsen in Greece and Spain. Pity the poor souls who believed the posters on here who claimed the market had bottomed 😯

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/houseprices/10109974/House-price-falls-worsen-in-Greece-and-Spain.html

  • #117371
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    Anonymous
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    @katy wrote:

    House price falls worsen in Greece and Spain. Pity the poor souls who believed the posters on here who claimed the market had bottomed 😯

    Pity the poor souls! You make them sound like victims of a terrible natural disaster rather than canny buyers taking advantage of lower prices, which is what they really are.

    If there are any poor souls, they are the ones who bought 5 years ago in the boom, when the herd thought it was such a good idea to buy.

    Anyone who buys quality in this bust, on the other hand, will do fine. I doubt many of them are investors – just ordinary punters taking advantage of the market to get a holiday home in a nice place for a good price. Whilst you are agonising over their plight they are probably having a lovely time.

    My opinion is that the market for quality on the coast is near the bottom. I might go a bit lower in terms of transactions and prices, but I think most of the shakeout has taken place. Of course I am going to express that opinion here and elsewhere, so I guess I must be one of those who you seem to think are plotting to talk up the market and dupe people into buying a home in Spain.

    The Telegraph piece is based on a Knight Frank ranking based on official house price stats, which in Spain’s case are detached from reality (as everyone knows). I don’t think it proves much.

  • #117374
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    None of the articles “prove much”…the ones quoted on here a couple of years ago proves they were wrong! Prices on the coast could have bottomed now…quién sabe? It’s a different market. Many who aren’t desperate to sell have withdrawn rather than reduce much. I know a German couple who have done this. Sticking to the areas I know well the reductions haven’t been large and many still overpriced.

    so I guess I must be one of those who you seem to think are plotting to talk up the market and dupe people into buying a home in Spain.

    Mark, why would I think that 😆

  • #117375
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    Anonymous
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    @katy wrote:

    None of the articles “prove much”…the ones quoted on here a couple of years ago proves they were wrong! Prices on the coast could have bottomed now…quién sabe? It’s a different market. Many who aren’t desperate to sell have withdrawn rather than reduce much. I know a German couple who have done this. Sticking to the areas I know well the reductions haven’t been large and many still overpriced.

    so I guess I must be one of those who you seem to think are plotting to talk up the market and dupe people into buying a home in Spain.

    Mark, why would I think that 😆

    Because you have a very suspicious mind, in the words of the King.

    I’ve seen huge price reductions all over the place. Which is not to say there are not still plenty of unrealistic asking prices confusing the price signals – there are (this is Spain after all). But asking prices are not the market, just vendor fantasies. The market is where transactions happen, with prices in many good areas down 50pc to 70pc. Doest that mean they are now a giveaway price? Not necessarily. But I don’t think the good stuff in areas of diversified international demand will go much lower. Time will tell.

    Another important point to bear in mind is there are lots of markets in Spain. It all depends what and where. National stats have some uses at a macro level, but they are almost meaningless to buyers and sellers.

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