Spanish Ghost Towns reveal extent of housing crisis.

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of DBMarcos99 DBMarcos99 4 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #57016
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    Anonymous
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    Sesena near Madrid, dubbed the Manhatten of Madrid, is a wasteland. Apartment blocks in the middle of nowhere. Huge craters where foundations were supposed to be built. A legacy of the housing boom of 2007. House prices have dropped by 25 per cent. They will have to fall another 25 per cent. Santander sold 500 apartments last month below construction cost. A lady paid less than a third of the price three years ago. Price drops of 60 to 70 per cent. It depends on how far the banks are prepared to accept loss provisions. The deals are done in cash.

    Spanish House prices still 2.5 times as high as mid 1990s level.

    Spanish Ghost Towns – part 1 – Sesena near Madrid

    Spanish Ghost Towns – part 2 – Sesena near Madrid

    Spanish Ghost Town – Ciudad Valdeluz in Guadalajara near Madrid

    Finished residential properties for sale: 1,342,435. All in all, there are 3.6 million current and future domiciles inhabited by nothing but hot air…if the market conditions remain “constant,” it will take at least six years for the surplus housing stock to be absorbed.

    Spain’s ghost town – Ciudad Valdeluz in Guadalajara near Madrid

    Mariu Ucros and her husband Artula migrated from Colombia 12 years ago to avoid an economic downturn there. They bought an apartment in Valdeluz for more than 326,000 euros. Developers are now trying to offload the rest for half that.

    Ghost towns mark Spain’s economic slide – Ciudad Valdeluz

    Shattered dreams haunt life in Spanish ghost towns – Valdeluz

    jesus encinar explains spanish property bubble – Avila near Madrid

    There will be a second housing crisis when interest rates start to rise

  • #111708
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    And in other breaking news today we learn that the Americans have managed to put a man on the moon:

  • #111710
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Didn’t someone on here reckon that the houses on sesena were selling like hot cakes. :mrgreen:

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5982&p=54362&hilit=sesena#p54362

  • #111714
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    Anonymous
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    Jakesuper, why do you keep posting information that we already know? It’s not an exclusive you know, ‘hey, the Spanish property market is shot to bits!’….. Tell us something we don’t know.

    If you are doing it to warn others not to be conned or to lose their life savings, then great. But, you say that you want to buy in Spain. So you like Spain, you want to live there, but only when it’s at a price you want to pay. It is now so where are you going to buy? If you post these endless repetitions of the same thing how are you going to cope in Spain? It isn’t the same way of life over there you know. You’ll end up going crazy on expat sites complaining of this and that until you are blue in the face.

    I can’t find it just now but a while back a lady said that she was just about to buy a property and was a bit worried about an extension which wasn’t on the deeds. I seemed to be the only one who replied with a ‘whoa, hold on until it’s legal’ warning message (someone else did then join me but sorry, can’t remember who). So if this site is to be useful as a warning to not buy badly then great but to be all doom and gloom, smirking at the Brits who are suffering and then saying that you are going to buy for the same price as a packet of crisps then I really don’t understand why you post?? Are you going to lower the prices all by yourself?

    Facts are great as too many ‘A Place in the Sun’ people have their heads in cloud cuckoo land. You really have to rent out there for at least a year to get an idea of an area. Reality can smack you in the face if you buy in a dodgy area! And probably just as important is to learn Spanish or else you will be conned by all and sundry! (Brits and Spaniards alike).

    Why not go out and pay a cheap rent (3 bedroom flats for about 250 plus bills per month) and see if you actually like Spain and get your cheap price property. Then tell us all about it.

  • #111717
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    Anonymous
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    @katy wrote:

    Didn’t someone on here reckon that the houses on sesena were selling like hot cakes. :mrgreen:

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5982&p=54362&hilit=sesena#p54362

    What has happened to the place now? Would be interested to hear if things sold well for a sustained period of time.

  • #111718
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @Ardun wrote:

    @katy wrote:
    Didn’t someone on here reckon that the houses on sesena were selling like hot cakes. :mrgreen:

    viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5982&p=54362&hilit=sesena#p54362

    What has happened to the place now? Would be interested to hear if things sold well for a sustained period of time.

    Well, even accordfing to the second video Jake posted, between 500 and 600 flats were sold this year by Santander in that Sesena block. The issue is that (allegedly) they were sold for below construction price. So great news for those buying, bad news for anyone who bought at peak price.

    I think Mark’s comments previously are very apt. I doubt anyone here would be interested in that location, but there are many familes in Madrid area who would be at lower prices.

    Seseña is not for me (or anyone in this forum, for that matter), but I believe that one day it will be finished and occupied.

    The other day I watched a Spanish TV programme of a young couple buying there now. They were delighted with what they were getting for their money. Not so delighted those who bought back in 2007

  • #111719
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    Anonymous
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    @itsme wrote:

    Jakesuper, why do you keep posting information that we already know? It’s not an exclusive you know, ‘hey, the Spanish property market is shot to bits!’….. Tell us something we don’t know.

    If you are doing it to warn others not to be conned or to lose their life savings, then great…

    itsme,

    What I am doing with this thread is warning people who don’t know Spain very well about the vast drab and ugly housing estates that were built around Madrid during the boom where apartments were on sale at ridiculous prices of 300,000 euros which can now be bought for 65,000 euros or less. Regardless of the reduced price the apartments are on sale for these apartment are not worth buying because the estates are practically empty with few occupants and they have few amenities and even at 65,000 euros the apartments are too expensive given that nobody wants to live there.

    It may be the case in the future that if too few people live in these estates that it will cost too much to maintain and provide social services for such few people and as a consequence the estates themselves will have be bulldozed down.

    I apologise that the estate in question, Sesena, has been mentioned on another thread previously, but I am just mentioning it because I found this morning the two videos, that I attached links to, about Sesena that I haven’t come across before that have been uploaded earlier this month on youtube.

    What I didn’t know until this morning is that there are other ghost town estates around Madrid that were built in the boom apart from Sesena like Valdeluz and Avila. Apparently there are some similar estates around Valencia as well.

  • #111720
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Incidentally I just did a search on Idealista for properties up to 80k euros (£63k) in Seseña. Don’t seem to be too many at that price, but no doubt others are held back until these sell.

    http://www.idealista.com/venta-viviendas/sesena-toledo/con-precio-hasta_80000/

    Properties seem nice enough, and I suppose if you’re looking for a starter family sized apartment (some of those are two bedroomed) then they may fit the bill, as they represent a major saving on new flats in Madrid. You’ll need to have transport to commute to work (or work via the net), too.

    I personally like Madrid, but I wouldn’t buy here. Not because of the price, which seems reasonable enough now – 63k probably wouldn’t even buy a garage in London where I live now – but because it seems very sterile. I’d prefer the ability to stroll on an evening to a local bookshop, market or hostelry.

  • #111721
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    The developments around Avila are interesting too. I saw a similar build-up in Alcobendas (on the northern side of Madrid) that actually have turned out well and seem to be well-occupied. The difference is that Alcobendas is quite close to the capital, and has had good public transport links put in (a new metro line to complement the existing cercania line).
    Again I doubt anyone here is looking to buy in Avila, but if you do, make sure your place is well-insulated and heated (as well as the normal considerations). It’s the highest provincial capital in Spain at 3665 feet above sea level – this means that though it escapes the worst of the summer heat, it can get extremely cold in winter. Some excellent views of snow capped hills and mountains nearby, but the wind is bitterly cold. So far as I’m aware the Renfe train line down to Madrid Chamartin still functions, but it’s not on a AVE route.

  • #111723
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    Spanish House prices still 2.5 times as high as mid 1990s level.

    So prices are still higher than they were twenty years ago? Color me shocked. I had no idea. Thanks for keeping me informed.

  • #111724
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
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    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    The developments around Avila are interesting too. I saw a similar build-up in Alcobendas (on the northern side of Madrid) that actually have turned out well and seem to be well-occupied. The difference is that Alcobendas is quite close to the capital, and has had good public transport links put in (a new metro line to complement the existing cercania line).

    I think you might be refering to Las Tablas and Sanchinarro which are recent developments next door to Alcobendas but actually fall inside Madrid. I can confirm that those areas are reasonably well popluated and now have decent services (my brother in law lives in Las Tablas and I visit the area regularly). As with any area where thousands of flats are built within a space of a few years, they won’t all be occupied immediately, but the take up of these seems to have been pretty good.

    Valdebebas is another new area being developed in the north of Madrid and there seems to be quite a bit of interest there as well. Not least because the flats are of high quality, and will be next to a huge park.

    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    Again I doubt anyone here is looking to buy in Avila, but if you do, make sure your place is well-insulated and heated (as well as the normal considerations). It’s the highest provincial capital in Spain at 3665 feet above sea level – this means that though it escapes the worst of the summer heat, it can get extremely cold in winter. Some excellent views of snow capped hills and mountains nearby, but the wind is bitterly cold. So far as I’m aware the Renfe train line down to Madrid Chamartin still functions, but it’s not on a AVE route.

    Yes Avila is bloody freezing in winter. Definitely worth a visit though – apparently the only Spanish city to still have its walls.

  • #111725
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jake, have you ever been to Spain, if so where and how long?

  • #111726
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    katy
    Spectator

    He probably works in a burger joint and has had a week in Benidorm 😆 😆

  • #111728
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Chopera; You forgot to mention the Cordero of Avila region.

  • #111730
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    Chopera
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    Chopera; You forgot to mention the Cordero of Avila region.

    I have to admit that I find the cordero lechal (suckling lamb) that is the speciality of that region a bit hit and miss. As with the suckling pig (cochinillo) that is the speciality of Segovia nearby, sometimes it can be fantastic, tender meat that melts in the mouth, but often there isn’t anything to get your teeth into. Maybe it’s just me who is more accustomed to the slightly older lamb and pork you get in the UK.

  • #111731
    Profile photo of Igurisu
    Igurisu
    Participant

    I had Cochinillo in Segovia a few years ago, it was one of the best things I have ever eaten 🙂 Never tried the Cordero, now added to my list.

  • #111732
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    If I can recall correctly the film Lawrence of Arabia or El Cid was filmed in the Walls of Avila.
    Every village of Spain is a page of history & a fall back in time. A real Disney. It is just a pitty that the custodians of the Country are incompetant, corrupt, demotivated & lack vision. I better shut up or I could be considered as the next Jake.

  • #111735
    Profile photo of Igurisu
    Igurisu
    Participant

    I’ve never visited Avilla, or anywhere else heading north west from Madrid so that general driection is down for a future tour. Having had a couple of trips to the costa verde and los picos I must say I love the north of Spain. I’m looking forward to heading northwest, Avilla and on to Galicia, does anybody know if Galicia is still suffering from the effects of the oil disaster a few years ago?

  • #111736
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    Anonymous
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    @Hybrid wrote:

    Jake, have you ever been to Spain, if so where and how long?

    Hybrid,

    I have visited Spain a couple of times about six or seven years ago, partly to familiarise myself with the place with the possible intention of living there but got put off by the ridiculous housing boom that made it prohibitively expensive for me to live there. I have travelled around most of Western Europe and spent about a day or so in various towns and cities.

    I have been to Madrid, places on the costa blanca like Benedorm, Alicante, Denia, places on the Costa del sol like Malaga, Torremolinos, Fuengirola, Benalmadena, Marbella, Puerto Banus, I visited the Canary Islands twice, once to see Teneriffe (seeing Santa Cruz, Playa de las Americas, Los Cristianos), and Gran Canaria (seeing Las Palmas and Maspalomas) and on another occasion to see Fuerteventura and Lanzarote and I have been to Ibiza (Eivissa) visiting Ibiza Town and San Antonio and I have been to Majorca (Mallorca) visiting Palma and Magaluf.

    I got to Ibiza not by plane as most people do but when I was visiting Alicante I got bored and so I decided to go to Ibiza by getting on a rather dodgy train from Alicante, or was it Benidorm, can’t quite remember which, which took me to Denia that ran along the coast and when I got to Denia I took the ferry to Ibiza which got me to Ibiza town. The thing I remember most about Ibiza is the nice castle in Ibiza town that is perched on a hill with some interesting views over the sea. I did something very brave and as it was getting nighttime I decided that rather than taking the bus from Ibiza Town to San Antonio I decided to walk there instead and it was quite dangerous as there was no pavement beside the road so found myself having to walk tight against the edge of the road avoiding the traffic at night and it took me eight hours to get to San Antonio.

    I did hear that they were wanting to build a motorway in Ibiza but there were some protests against it but given that Ibiza is a relatively small island I wouldn’t have thought that a motorway was necessary.

    I have been to Greece several times, visited Athens, the island of Rhodes (Rhodes Town, Faliraki, Lindos), Crete (Heraklion, Agios Nikolaos), Corfu (Kavos), and believe it or not I actually went to Mykonos (seeing Paradise and Super Paradise Beach). I have been to Cyprus visiting places there like Nicossia, Larnica, Limassol, Paphos, Aya Nappa. I travelled around Italy a few times seeing places like Tuscany, Pisa, Florence, Venice, Trieste, Rome, Naples, Bolognia, Rimini, Ancona, Pescara, Bari, Brindisi, Lecce, Taranto, Sicily and believe it or not I have been to Sardinia and visited Alghero and Cagliari. I briefly went to Portugal, visited Faro in the eastern Algarve and paid a visit to Lisbon.

    I have never been to Turkey or Bulgaria but I wouldn’t mind going there sometime in the future.

    I have travelled to the United States twice, once to see New York and another time to visit Los Angeles and Las Vegas. If you do go to Las Vegas then see some of the free attractions on show beside the Strip outside the resorts like the Pirate show outside Treasure Island resort, the Volcano and rapids outside the Mirage resort and the best of all are the fountains of Bellagio outside the Bellagio resort which use computer controlled water jets synchronized to music to produce a fantastic fountain display. Unfortunately I won’t be going to America anytime soon because since I went to the States I got myself a criminal record which would make it a bit tricky for me to go back to the states again.

  • #111737
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @igurisu wrote:

    I’ve never visited Avilla, or anywhere else heading north west from Madrid so that general driection is down for a future tour. Having had a couple of trips to the costa verde and los picos I must say I love the north of Spain. I’m looking forward to heading northwest, Avilla and on to Galicia, does anybody know if Galicia is still suffering from the effects of the oil disaster a few years ago?

    If you are heading that way then Salamanca is well worth a visit and also a little old village called La Alberca. Still fairly unchanged for quite a few centuries and famous for having a pig that runs freely around the village, living off scraps given to it by the villagers. Being Spain each pig gets slaughtered each year and they have a huge fiesta.

    I’m pretty sure the Galician coast is clear now.

    The Islas cies are well worth checking out:

    So too is Santiago de Compostela

  • #111738
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    sorry about the rather large images – bigger than I thought – i can get rid of them if people want

  • #111740
    Profile photo of Igurisu
    Igurisu
    Participant

    Thanks Chopera, they are nice pictures, leave them in 🙂

  • #111801
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Back to Seseña, for those who can read Spanish there is a very interesting forum for buyers and residents there:

    http://www.forosesena.com/

    Seem to be lively threads on policing and on prostitution in the area. 😯

  • #111802
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    In addition to Salamanca, Alberca. Please visit a lovely town by the name of Zamora. A drink in the parador is a must.

    Chopera you had brought back memorioies of Alberca. while I was studying Spanish in Salamanca opposite the famous “Casa de Concha” we use to take day trips & recall the square where we sat & had some wine, grapes & local cheese. Cant forget the old ladies dressed in black sitting in the balconies with their very blank expressions. Made me draw paralles with the ladies from Amsterdam in their windows.

  • #111803
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    In addition to Salamanca, Alberca. Please visit a lovely town by the name of Zamora. A drink in the parador is a must.

    We once stayed a few nights in Benavente, not so far from Zamora. The town seemed very relaxed, and the tapas bars were great. I suspect it gets cold in winter though.

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