Spanish economy now in official recession.

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of katy katy 4 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #56574
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
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    Spain’s economy slides into official recession in the first quarter of 2012. Rajoy has also announced he will impose further ministerial spending cuts of 15% across the board and freeze public sector salaries.

    Regional government spending which has been out of control in the last decade has taken it’s toll on the nations finances.
    With the truly awful unemployment levels particularly among the young it’s surprising there has not been more civil unrest. The Spanish seem to be accepting their fate.

    A general strike has been called in Spain for 29th March which will only cost the economy more and achieve nothing.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9170309/Spain-to-slash-spending-as-economy-slumps-back-into-recession.html

  • #108201
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    Have you ever heard of Spaniards living with reality. Tourist not coming increase taxi fare, increase menu charges, properties not selling increase prices. This is something an average person encounters in Spain. Need not go further.

  • #108206
    Profile photo of ozmunky
    ozmunky
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    Have you ever heard of Spaniards living with reality. Tourist not coming increase taxi fare, increase menu charges, properties not selling increase prices. This is something an average person encounters in Spain. Need not go further.

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Never in my experience of countries, have I seen a populace totally ignorant of reality and more deserving of its consequences.

    The saying goes that the Swiss are like the Welsh with money and the Spanish are the same without the money.

    Looks like the snooty service in Marbella will get even worse.

    Oh dear.

    — Munky

  • #108207
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Never in my experience of countries, have I seen a populace totally ignorant of reality and more deserving of its consequences”

    How much of this is due to information being witheld during the Franco years & Spaniard’s being poor could not afford to buy books. That being the past even today well travelled and affluent Spanaird do not read and as a result the consequences is here to see for all of us. I feel sorry that many of my dear Spanish friends are suffering & are going to suffer more.

  • #108208
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    I can’t say I recognise this Spain of which some here are speaking – perhaps you’re making a judgement based on being in a resort town or country village? Just spend some time in major cities like Madrid, Barcelona or Bilbao to realise there are loads of educated professional world-beating Spaniards around. It’s not just football and El Bulli where they lead the world you know?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8322035/Vibrant-exports-will-save-Spain-and-perhaps-the-euro.html

    You would never know the plant was there, just as you might never know that the 2m people of the Basque Country are the world’s seventh biggest producers of machine tools, or that their astonishing restaurants (mostly fish) boast as many Michelin stars as London.

    ITP is one of those Iberian surprises, the sort of company that explains why Spain has seen its global export share (1.8pc) hold steady over the last decade in the face of China’s onslaught and the strong euro, while France, Italy, the UK, the US, and Japan have slipped down the league. Spain has almost kept pace with Germany, and not by selling oranges and olives.

    In fact I’m beginning to understand why the UK is sliding down the tubes. Instead of making anything we rely on the shysters in the City, and try and sneer at our neighbours. Spain has won a 8 billion contract to build the high speed rail link in Saudi, and they’re in the running for several other countries. Britain? We won’t even build the London to Birmingham link, we’ll probably get the French or Spanish to build it. The Brits who invented the railways, now have lost the ability to do it themselves. Didn’t we invent football too? Keep on sniping and sneering Brits. 😥

  • #108210
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator
  • #108211
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    The Basque besides their cuisine, historically had light Industry. Most of the the electrical white goods in Spain are/were made there. Again due to their demand for independence & the actvities of ETA had starved the region from inward investment. Add this also to my above list of not living with reality.

    Whilst, I am very happy for the Company. It will not create jobs for the 55 million people. My comments observation was about Spain not touristic area or the hinterland.

    An example of the city boys/girls trying to sell properties on a website. One of the photos will be of the bidet or the toilet and they ignore salon, bedroom, kitchen etc. Now you dont need to have a masters in marketing. All you need to know is to put your best foot forward.

    A friend of mine had a flat in Madrid, this was lying empty for nearly eight months. because she did not get the rent that she wanted. Have you noticed the lack of duty free stores at the airports and despite the airport being open they would close at say 20.00

  • #108212
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    The Basque besides their cuisine, historically had light Industry. Most of the the electrical white goods in Spain are/were made there. Again due to their demand for independence & the actvities of ETA had starved the region from inward investment. Add this also to my above list of not living with reality.

    Whilst, I am very happy for the Company. It will not create jobs for the 55 million people. My comments observation was about Spain not touristic area or the hinterland.

    An example of the city boys/girls trying to sell properties on a website. One of the photos will be of the bidet or the toilet and they ignore salon, bedroom, kitchen etc. Now you dont need to have a masters in marketing. All you need to know is to put your best foot forward.

    A friend of mine had a flat in Madrid, this was lying empty for nearly eight months. because she did not get the rent that she wanted. Have you noticed the lack of duty free stores at the airports and despite the airport being open they would close at say 20.00

    Well you’re certainly right in that property sales and rentals are carried out in a different way.
    I have not noticed the lack of duty free stores or closing at 20.00 – but there again I tend to use Madrid airport.
    Unoccupied flats? You can find them in London, Oxford, Nottingham, anywhere in the UK. There is always great demand for accommodation in Madrid – ask any expat, teacher or student who’s tried to get digs there. Same as any capital city I suppose, and perhaps explains why 400 flats in Seseña were snapped up in a few days.

  • #108213
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
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    I think Ambrose had had too much Rioja when he wrote that quoted piece. It’s easy to be upbeat about a country as a jurno/tourist quite another as an investor.

    Investors crunch the numbers and trends. Do that if you have the time and you will discover Spain’s recovery prospects are bleak. Until major labour reforms are implemented, industrial cost base reduced and their banks capitalisation increased, Spain is in a hopeless position to move forward.

    Projects like the Senena development can be disposed of by the banks easily by reducing the price and offering cheap 100% loans to those Spaniards who still have a job. That is not a bellwether of recovery, more a statement of failure.

  • #108214
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    I think Ambrose had had too much Rioja when he wrote that quoted piece. It’s easy to be upbeat about a country as a jurno/tourist quite another as an investor.

    Investors crunch the numbers and trends. Do that if you have the time and you will discover Spain’s recovery prospects are bleak. Until major labour reforms are implemented, industrial cost base reduced and their banks capitalisation increased, Spain is in a hopeless position to move forward.

    Projects like the Senena development can be disposed of by the banks easily by reducing the price and offering cheap 100% loans to those Spaniards who still have a job. That is not a bellwether of recovery, more a statement of failure.

    Yet there seem to be plenty of companies investing in Spain, who think differently. Why do you think Eurofund Investments http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_32640.shtml, Apple, LinkedIn even Amazon are now opening up in Spain? That’s not to mention the Vegas project. We are even seeing some production sent out to China coming back to Spanish shores http://www.eleconomista.es/empresas-finanzas/noticias/3795286/03/12/la-industria-textil-que-se-fue-a-china-inicia-su-regreso-a-espana-y-portugal.html
    I remember the early to mid 90s when prospects for Spain looked worse. Tourist numbers were falling at that point, and all the gloom and doom merchants were predicting the same as now.
    Unlike yourself I believe the Spanish are hard-working and talented. That is how they have succeeded worldwide with enterprises like Indra, Inditex and Gamesa. Not easy for many I know, but I believe they will make it. Whether or not it is in the Eurozone though – that is another question.

  • #108217
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
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    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    Unlike yourself I believe the Spanish are hard-working and talented. That is how they have succeeded worldwide with enterprises like Indra, Inditex and Gamesa. Not easy for many I know, but I believe they will make it. Whether or not it is in the Eurozone though – that is another question.

    Who is that comment directed at? 👿 I have never said any against the Spanish people.

    The question of the Eurozone is fundamental to Spain’s current woes. Their industry is noncompetitive in part because of the strong Euro and the countries inability to devalue or set interest rates. Other fault lines I have described previously. Historically Spain’s politicians have signed up to every restrictive EU treaty further tightening the strait jacket. The latest fiscal treaty being a prime example. Rajoy signed it then a week later admitted they could never keep to it.

    Some investors take the long view and believe after a decade Spain will recover and they are probably right. To Sustain loss over that period takes deep pockets and patient shareholders.

  • #108220
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
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  • #108221
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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  • #108222
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    Investors dont look at 10 years and that is most long terms investment projects are Government back or shared equity.

  • #108223
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @dbmarcos99 wrote:

    I remember the early to mid 90s when prospects for Spain looked worse. Tourist numbers were falling at that point, and all the gloom and doom merchants were predicting the same as now.
    Unlike yourself I believe the Spanish are hard-working and talented. That is how they have succeeded worldwide with enterprises like Indra, Inditex and Gamesa. Not easy for many I know, but I believe they will make it. Whether or not it is in the Eurozone though – that is another question.

    The last recession in Spain in the 90’s was very different and not as deep. There was also the flexibility of having it’s own currency. Spain’s recovery then was mainly due to the billions thrown at it from Brussels and the construction boom, neither will happen during the next decade.

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