- November 26, 2005 at 1:43 pm #51387
Having been away I have only just read the postings re the corruption in Spain which Mark has now locked re T. McDonald programme and, I have to say I totally agree with your comments and support your fight to get things cleaned up in Spain and with your problems.
Grind the crooks down!
- November 26, 2005 at 2:06 pm #59996
The TMc thread was, in our opinion rightly closed as the content was becoming totally unproductive. Hoping that another such thread will not open in its place!
(From someone who likes to explore negative and positive facts and factors – and reach their own balanced, individual decisions!)
- November 26, 2005 at 5:23 pm #59997
Paul, thank you for your words of support & encouragement. It is much appreciated.
- November 26, 2005 at 10:13 pm #59998
I think some ‘contributors’ do forget that a lot of people on this forum are in real-life stressful situations with their purchase in Spain, many of whom stand to lose a large part of their life-savings through no fault of their own.
Both Claire and myself chose agents/lawyers/developers as carefully as we could at the time, as we were painfully aware through numerous newspaper articles and tv programmes that the ‘pitfalls’ were out there.
Yet despite our caution and research, we still found ourselves amongst those with the now dreadful ‘headache’ of trying to get our money back.
We hoped, by relating our story and experience, that it may just help someone reading our postings to be very cautious.
Being intelligent people, we know full well our particular experience does not mean that in every dealing, in the whole of Spain, there is a ‘crook’ involved. And I certainly have never ‘slagged off Spain’ as one contributor stated.
It is a country I fell in love with many years ago, and despite having lived and worked in many countries all over the world during the last 25 years -Spain was the country where I eventually chose to buy my future home. Bad luck for me that it has all gone wrong due to behind-the-scenes corruption, my dreams and future plans are in tatters – and I am left with a horrendous battle just to see my money back.
That does not mean I blame the whole country (!), but I do blame the few individuals that are involved in Claire’s and my case.
And as for ‘Kissamees’ accusing the British in general of ’employing a blame culture when things go wrong in a foreign country’, this is typical of the ‘unhelpful’ comments I am talking about.
I, and 62 other purchasers, have currently lost around £100,000 each to a developer who took our money over 2 years ago as a down-payment for an apartment, which they never ended up building, they then spend the money building another project and until they sell there, they do not have the money to pay us back.
Am I not allowed to ‘blame’ the crooked developer in question?
Possibly, if Kissamees are American which I suspect they are, their solution would probably be to go to therapy and take ‘anger control classes’.
Well, that money represents working and saving hard for many years, including making many sacrifices – and as far as I am concerned I have no shame in ‘blaming’ the company that has misappropriated my money.
If that makes me help create a British ‘blame culture’ then so be it.
Mark was right to close the Trevor McDonald thread because when contributors only want to make personal attacks or think it is amusing to make wind-up comments to people already hurting, it totally belittles the serious and valuable role this forum plays.
Barbara & Katerina – also involved in the same development – recently went out to Spain to confront their lawyer and developer in question.
I know they felt they were armed with very valuable information gained from this forum, especially from the ‘Spanish Lawyers’ and ‘Reply to Drakan’ thread.
There was intelligent interchange with valuable advice from the likes of Drakan and Jose Maria Sanches Alfonso (both of whom are lawyers who help us with their time and expertise for free) and patiently answer questions, and to whom serious members of this forum have cause to be very grateful. Plus loads of others who offer their knowledge and bits of info. as and when.
As Mark rightly says, an unacceptably large number of people run into serious problems, even if they are a tiny group compared to the many satisfied buyers.
Let this tiny group discuss these serious problems, exchange news, help each other with solutions and give encouragement and support. Don’t belittle, critcise, or make personal attacks – it is unhelpful, is not constructive, and is not the objective of a very valuable forum.
I just wish I knew at the time of buying what I know now re. essential contract clauses, Requerimiento Notarials, Bank Guarantees (intensive/extensive course found in ‘Spanish Lawyers’ thread!), and many aspects of the Spanish law. All thanks to this forum.
Long may it last and long may it stay focussed!
And Paul…..thank you
- November 26, 2005 at 11:43 pm #59999
Well put Sofia
I wish you and Claire all the best in trying to get things resolved to your satisfaction
- November 27, 2005 at 11:53 am #60000
well said im glad to mark closed the mcdonald thread and deleated some of the hurtfull things said by someone on here anyway anuff said good luck
- November 27, 2005 at 9:06 pm #60002
Have not been on for a while and have missed most of the threads well said no one likes to get ripped off.Have spoken on hear to Clare before i am still waiting for our place to compleate its 3mths behind at the mo. i wish you good luck and cant wait for these conmen getting what they deserve for destroying our dreams 🙁 🙁
- November 27, 2005 at 9:22 pm #60004
I have just received an email from another (successful?) purchaser of Greenhills. I have given her this forum address and I hope that she posts her “news” on here. She said she would like to share her information with others. Some of what she said has surprised me to say the least. I am finding it increasingly difficult to know what is true and what is not. Different people are being told MANY differing things about the developers. The awful agents are running true to form though !!
- November 27, 2005 at 10:56 pm #60006
Im not a lawyer but isnt it possible for you all to get together and take these people to court as a “class action” surely this infringes some basic human right (all the fashion for economic asylum seekers and the like).
I feel for you as I nearly got suckered by the awful estates/De Valle off [plan scam as well.
And yes you are completely right – intellegent homework doesnt help you when everyone in the chain is lying to you. If the corruption starts with the mayor and government what hope is there!
- November 28, 2005 at 8:24 am #60007
Thank you for your thoughts, and yes, our Human Rights are being breached. But do they care?
In theory, yes it would be a good idea to “collectively” fight the powers that be! In practice it might be more difficult and detremental to the outcome, compared to going about it individually. Barbara & Katerina have possibly made some head way, although I don’t know the full details of their visit as yet. If they do get their money back in the not too distant future, as they have been told they could, then my husband & I will be taking the same action as they have. There is no point in putting ourselves through more stress than we already have. It has taken quite a toll on my health this year.
From the email that I received yesterday from another purchaser of the lower part of Greenhills, which should be completed soon, I have my doubts as to whether they will in fact get their money back as soon as they had hoped. It appears MANY of these apartments are still unsold. This is very different to what we had been led to believe by another source. As I said, who does one believe?
The lady who wrote to me has, I presume, bought as an investment having the plan to sell at completion, which the estate agent told her at the time of signing would be NO PROBLEM!! Guess what…they don’t want to know!!
- November 28, 2005 at 8:28 am #60008
Sorry, I forgot to log in on the above post! 😕
- November 28, 2005 at 6:07 pm #60021
It appears MANY of these apartments are still unsold.
Whilst I appreciate that you want your money back and just to get on with your life without this hassle 😈 Would it be worth trying to get the developer to transfer your ownership to one of the already built/OK building license plots?
That way they dont have to give you money back (which they have already spent!) and you would get a holiday home, that you could use and sell at your leisure?
- November 28, 2005 at 6:29 pm #60022
Good idea!….but the way we have been treated by those concerned is “hideous” No way are we going to have one of their apartments. Without being “snooty” about it, the lower blocks don’t begin to compare with the position, views, etc. of the upper blocks, had they been built. It’s always…position, position, position.
- November 28, 2005 at 6:42 pm #60023
true, but being pragmatic about it, they do exist!
and you could sell them for real money as opposed to losing all the deposit money which they probabaly will have spent.? Maybe even provide you with a little rental income until the market picks up again?
I agree they have behaved apalingly and broken no end of laws, but taking the high moral ground, you would at least have something to show for all this stress and pain.
good luck anyway when one of the other “angels” report back later this week.
- November 28, 2005 at 7:58 pm #60026
We will eventually, get our money back because we have a Bank Guarantee. If we have to wait to exercise this it will not be until October 2006.
To enable us to buy in Spain, we were going to sell our present house and “downsize,” to release the equity needed to make the purchase at Green Hills. There is no way we want to sell our house now to buy something we don’t want.
From the information we have had here, and according to our lawyers, it appears we should not have to wait for our money to be returned as no building has transpired. We should be reimbursed now as our contracts have expired. We should only have to wait for the BG in the event that the company was bankrupt. This is not the case.
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