shattered dream

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This topic contains 38 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #53113
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    Anonymous
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    For the last 2 years we have been renting in spain with a view to selling up and enjoying our retirement. Thanks to the Forum advice we have really done our homework. We have found were we want to be a decent lawyer and the type of re-sale we want. We have recently returned and put our house on the market, we live in the country and the property is lovely so we didn’t think we would have any problems selling. How wrong we were whilst we were away the local landowner has sold his land for a proposed quarry and we found this out from a prospective buyer who of course is no longer interested. There are objections but it does not affect enough people. and it is likely to go through. So thats the end to our Spanish dream we will keep renting and I will keep visiting the forum who knows we may be able to put all the good advice into practice one day.

  • #74529
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    Anonymous
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    Hi Natalie
    Remembering your previous posts – and hopes/dreams – am devasted for you re. this news.
    Would it not be worth visiting your local MP and a good lawyer to see if anything can be done?

    No matter how many (or few) properties are affected, if you will end up with excess noise and dust from this proposed quarry – surely you have a just cause to make an official protest/complaint along with your neighbours?

  • #74329
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    Anonymous
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    Hi Natalie
    Remembering your previous posts – and hopes/dreams – am devasted for you re. this news.
    Would it not be worth visiting your local MP and a good lawyer to see if anything can be done?

    No matter how many (or few) properties are affected, if you will end up with excess noise and dust from this proposed quarry – surely you have a just cause to make an official protest/complaint along with your neighbours?

  • #74532
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    Anonymous
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    Hi Natalie,
    Money talks, so going to an MP will not be much of a use. I am sorry for you but I sure that there are other wonderful properties that you will like.

    Properties are like partners they are very nice but than there is a nicer partner lurking some where.

    At least for the moment you are happy in your rented flat, this cant be said for the maney who are suffering.

  • #74332
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    Hi Natalie,
    Money talks, so going to an MP will not be much of a use. I am sorry for you but I sure that there are other wonderful properties that you will like.

    Properties are like partners they are very nice but than there is a nicer partner lurking some where.

    At least for the moment you are happy in your rented flat, this cant be said for the maney who are suffering.

  • #74533
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    Thanks for that Charlie. Yes there are objections to the proposal and the local parish council has formed a committee to fight it, and we have written to William Haig MP I have also written to the landowner asking whether he would like to buy our property. fat chance of that though, he will be making millions if it goes ahead.
    we were so depressed about the situation I have today booked for us to return to Spain for another 3 months my husbands health is not great and don’t want him stressed, which he won’t be in Spain. Leaving September back December might have better news then.

  • #74333
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    Thanks for that Charlie. Yes there are objections to the proposal and the local parish council has formed a committee to fight it, and we have written to William Haig MP I have also written to the landowner asking whether he would like to buy our property. fat chance of that though, he will be making millions if it goes ahead.
    we were so depressed about the situation I have today booked for us to return to Spain for another 3 months my husbands health is not great and don’t want him stressed, which he won’t be in Spain. Leaving September back December might have better news then.

  • #74534
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    So has planning been granted?
    If so, has there been an appeal?
    Has there been or is there to be a Public Enquiry?
    Have wildlife surveys been conducted?
    Has a traffic impact study been conducted?
    Things that should be taken into consideration prior to consnet includes: dust, blasting, noise, water protection and pollution, lighting, archaeology preservation, maintenance of woodland, landscaping, ecology, weeds, soil handling, restoration, hours of operation and access.

  • #74334
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    So has planning been granted?
    If so, has there been an appeal?
    Has there been or is there to be a Public Enquiry?
    Have wildlife surveys been conducted?
    Has a traffic impact study been conducted?
    Things that should be taken into consideration prior to consnet includes: dust, blasting, noise, water protection and pollution, lighting, archaeology preservation, maintenance of woodland, landscaping, ecology, weeds, soil handling, restoration, hours of operation and access.

  • #74536
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    mg: A few years ago I bought a flat which had a council recycling tip (dry) next to it. The flat was on the South side of the river Thames & Chelsea.

    I took a calulated view of the existence of a tip. As land on the river bank in S.W. London is serious money. The said plot of land could be in excess of £70million.

    The council has around 15 year lease on the land. My view was that at some stage the tip will go. Others owners did not share my vision and we as residents had every possible test done, noise, pollution, traffic, air quality, infact the tip is nearer to our block than legally allowed to justify shiting it (There are EU grants avaible for recycling etc) .

    We even had a labour minister Peter Hain living in the block ( would not get involved) The Council did everything to frustrate us, their own rules, regulations etc where thrown at them but they were ignored by the Council. We even had a Barister advising us.

    Personally, It did not affect me as I also knew that the building used as a tip is a listed building. My suspecion is that some brown envelopes had been passed to get the planning permission. I ofcourse cant prove it.

    The reason I am stating the above is that the authorities will let you beleive about your rights to make you feel good about them. They themselves will breach them. Yes as I said money talks and if your husband is unwell it does not make sence for you and your husband to be stressed out.

  • #74336
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    mg: A few years ago I bought a flat which had a council recycling tip (dry) next to it. The flat was on the South side of the river Thames & Chelsea.

    I took a calulated view of the existence of a tip. As land on the river bank in S.W. London is serious money. The said plot of land could be in excess of £70million.

    The council has around 15 year lease on the land. My view was that at some stage the tip will go. Others owners did not share my vision and we as residents had every possible test done, noise, pollution, traffic, air quality, infact the tip is nearer to our block than legally allowed to justify shiting it (There are EU grants avaible for recycling etc) .

    We even had a labour minister Peter Hain living in the block ( would not get involved) The Council did everything to frustrate us, their own rules, regulations etc where thrown at them but they were ignored by the Council. We even had a Barister advising us.

    Personally, It did not affect me as I also knew that the building used as a tip is a listed building. My suspecion is that some brown envelopes had been passed to get the planning permission. I ofcourse cant prove it.

    The reason I am stating the above is that the authorities will let you beleive about your rights to make you feel good about them. They themselves will breach them. Yes as I said money talks and if your husband is unwell it does not make sence for you and your husband to be stressed out.

  • #74537
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    OK, so what is your advice to natalie, just accept it and live with it?
    If you wish to quote on planning laws for such a use (quarry) and also landfill, I will not attempt to bore you with facts as you mention you are experienced in such matters, but I have had consnet on two such sites, neither of which I parted with “brown envelopes”, but with large sums of money for Planning and Legal representations.
    The “brown envelopes”. Yes often a term kicked about, but many accusers rarely can substantiate unfortunately.
    My initial response was as a guidance on not for the purpose of causing further stress.

  • #74337
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    OK, so what is your advice to natalie, just accept it and live with it?
    If you wish to quote on planning laws for such a use (quarry) and also landfill, I will not attempt to bore you with facts as you mention you are experienced in such matters, but I have had consnet on two such sites, neither of which I parted with “brown envelopes”, but with large sums of money for Planning and Legal representations.
    The “brown envelopes”. Yes often a term kicked about, but many accusers rarely can substantiate unfortunately.
    My initial response was as a guidance on not for the purpose of causing further stress.

  • #74538
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    Anonymous
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    mg. Yes in the Appeal against gravel excavation the committee submitted a 29 page document including the following

    Disturbance to becks streams and the River
    Risk of flooding to properties
    Effect on the local water table
    Damage and destruction of natural habitat of wildlife
    Pollutants of dust and fumes
    Noise levels.
    Increased HGV traffic through hamlet
    and of course devalue of property.

    I just can’t see any potential buyer having read this document being interested in buying.

    Well I think I have bored you all by now. So Spain here we come.

  • #74338
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    mg. Yes in the Appeal against gravel excavation the committee submitted a 29 page document including the following

    Disturbance to becks streams and the River
    Risk of flooding to properties
    Effect on the local water table
    Damage and destruction of natural habitat of wildlife
    Pollutants of dust and fumes
    Noise levels.
    Increased HGV traffic through hamlet
    and of course devalue of property.

    I just can’t see any potential buyer having read this document being interested in buying.

    Well I think I have bored you all by now. So Spain here we come.

  • #74539
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    Shakeel – at least the tip was already in existence when you took your ‘calculated view’ to purchase a flat next door. You had the choice to live next to one or not. Natalie and her neighbours are not having this choice if the council/landowner get their way.

    @mg wrote:

    Have wildlife surveys been conducted?
    Has a traffic impact study been conducted?
    Things that should be taken into consideration prior to consnet includes: dust, blasting, noise, water protection and pollution, lighting, archaeology preservation, maintenance of woodland, landscaping, ecology, weeds, soil handling, restoration, hours of operation and access.

    Natalie – mg has come up with a good list, perhaps worth passing on to your parish council’s committee in case they’ve missed a few of these points?
    Also has your committee sought legal advice from a good lawyer who specialises in this type of situation? Local councils cannot necessarily always win, especially if you have good legal representation which I feel is essential.
    Personally, I like William Hague, think he is a ‘doer’ – hope he can help. Wish you good luck with this.

  • #74339
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    Shakeel – at least the tip was already in existence when you took your ‘calculated view’ to purchase a flat next door. You had the choice to live next to one or not. Natalie and her neighbours are not having this choice if the council/landowner get their way.

    @mg wrote:

    Have wildlife surveys been conducted?
    Has a traffic impact study been conducted?
    Things that should be taken into consideration prior to consnet includes: dust, blasting, noise, water protection and pollution, lighting, archaeology preservation, maintenance of woodland, landscaping, ecology, weeds, soil handling, restoration, hours of operation and access.

    Natalie – mg has come up with a good list, perhaps worth passing on to your parish council’s committee in case they’ve missed a few of these points?
    Also has your committee sought legal advice from a good lawyer who specialises in this type of situation? Local councils cannot necessarily always win, especially if you have good legal representation which I feel is essential.
    Personally, I like William Hague, think he is a ‘doer’ – hope he can help. Wish you good luck with this.

  • #74540
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    Ah – our posts overlapped, I see you have already done a good job with submitting an Appeal. Let’s hope there may be some joy re. WH.

  • #74340
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    Anonymous
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    Ah – our posts overlapped, I see you have already done a good job with submitting an Appeal. Let’s hope there may be some joy re. WH.

  • #74541
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    The points I mentioned are all things land owners hate, as they know that these are the points that planners will look into.
    If the planners have come down in favour of the applicant, an appeal is the only way forward.
    Did your Parish Council prepare their objections themselves, or was a specialist Planning Consultant used.
    At this stage, the Planning Consultant route is what I would favour as opposed to the lawyer and take the advice of the PC on instructing a Barrister specialising in such matters.

  • #74341
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    Anonymous
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    The points I mentioned are all things land owners hate, as they know that these are the points that planners will look into.
    If the planners have come down in favour of the applicant, an appeal is the only way forward.
    Did your Parish Council prepare their objections themselves, or was a specialist Planning Consultant used.
    At this stage, the Planning Consultant route is what I would favour as opposed to the lawyer and take the advice of the PC on instructing a Barrister specialising in such matters.

  • #74542
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    I was not trying to advise anything to Natalie as I a not qualified to do. As her husband is not well and going down the route would be more stressful.

    In so far as the brown envelopes are concerned, it is a term I am using on the forum as it fimiliar to the forum users. You can call it bung, kickback, commission etc. As I stated it is not easy to prove until a political or other scandel takes place. The people involved in it are well aware of the game and will cover each other. Besides it does not have to be in cash, it can be holidays, beauty/pampering for the Mrs at the Spa, paying so called donations to the schools for admission etc.

    A recent such an example was Mr Presscot having holidays in Texas and receiving a cowboy gear ( What a sight ) than spending three weeks in Carribian. This is an example where on the face of it no brown envelopes have changed hands and to the best of my knowledge the payment was not made by the Hull Council.

    Whilst talking about Hull the next door MP from Hartlepool Mr Mendelson being given a mortgage by a leading building society. He had resigned twice.

    Sadly, we have to accept that these things happen. We may not be able to prove it. The level of suspecion is raised when the rules/guidelines clearly set by the council perhaps influenced by the central government is blatantly ignored.

  • #74342
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    Anonymous
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    I was not trying to advise anything to Natalie as I a not qualified to do. As her husband is not well and going down the route would be more stressful.

    In so far as the brown envelopes are concerned, it is a term I am using on the forum as it fimiliar to the forum users. You can call it bung, kickback, commission etc. As I stated it is not easy to prove until a political or other scandel takes place. The people involved in it are well aware of the game and will cover each other. Besides it does not have to be in cash, it can be holidays, beauty/pampering for the Mrs at the Spa, paying so called donations to the schools for admission etc.

    A recent such an example was Mr Presscot having holidays in Texas and receiving a cowboy gear ( What a sight ) than spending three weeks in Carribian. This is an example where on the face of it no brown envelopes have changed hands and to the best of my knowledge the payment was not made by the Hull Council.

    Whilst talking about Hull the next door MP from Hartlepool Mr Mendelson being given a mortgage by a leading building society. He had resigned twice.

    Sadly, we have to accept that these things happen. We may not be able to prove it. The level of suspecion is raised when the rules/guidelines clearly set by the council perhaps influenced by the central government is blatantly ignored.

  • #74543
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    @mg wrote:

    At this stage, the Planning Consultant route is what I would favour as opposed to the lawyer……

    You’re right mg, a Planning Consultant does make total sense. Sound advice.

  • #74343
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    @mg wrote:

    At this stage, the Planning Consultant route is what I would favour as opposed to the lawyer……

    You’re right mg, a Planning Consultant does make total sense. Sound advice.

  • #74545
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    Charlie: I agree lawyers should be the last resort in any given circumstances.

  • #74345
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    Charlie: I agree lawyers should be the last resort in any given circumstances.

  • #74547
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    Shakeel – I didn’t say that. 😯
    Where there is ‘law’ involved, I believe professional advice should be the first port of call.
    As Natalie’s situation has to be fought on ‘planning’ points of law, mg makes good sense in this case in recommending a planning specialist (to work in conjunction with a barrister).
    A different situation/problem in another ‘given circumstance’ where there are points of law involved, I wouldn’t hesitate in asking my lawyer for advice.

  • #74347
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    Shakeel – I didn’t say that. 😯
    Where there is ‘law’ involved, I believe professional advice should be the first port of call.
    As Natalie’s situation has to be fought on ‘planning’ points of law, mg makes good sense in this case in recommending a planning specialist (to work in conjunction with a barrister).
    A different situation/problem in another ‘given circumstance’ where there are points of law involved, I wouldn’t hesitate in asking my lawyer for advice.

  • #74548
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    Anonymous
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    Hi Charlie,

    ” Shakeel – I didn’t say that.”

    I am sorry if I came accross as such that implied you said it.

  • #74348
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Charlie,

    ” Shakeel – I didn’t say that.”

    I am sorry if I came accross as such that implied you said it.

  • #74550
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    No problem Shakeel: 😉

    Can’t agree though with your: “lawyers should be the last resort in any given circumstances”
    ….unless they’re like my original Spanish lawyer!

    (just kidding with the emoticon, that’s only raspberry jam on the end of the chain saw)

  • #74350
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    No problem Shakeel: 😉

    Can’t agree though with your: “lawyers should be the last resort in any given circumstances”
    ….unless they’re like my original Spanish lawyer!

    (just kidding with the emoticon, that’s only raspberry jam on the end of the chain saw)

  • #74551
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    charlie

    RE: Skakeel

    lawyers…….a last resort!

    that speaks volumes about the opinion of Spanish on lawyers and the resulting mess!

  • #74351
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    charlie

    RE: Skakeel

    lawyers…….a last resort!

    that speaks volumes about the opinion of Spanish on lawyers and the resulting mess!

  • #74552
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    I don’t think ‘Skakeel’ (otherwise known as Shakeel 😆 ) is Spanish, but his comment is certainly indicative of mis-trust in lawyers generally. In the old days they were always regarded as ‘solid,trustworthy and dependable’, like the vicar/church(?), the policeman(?) etc. How times have changed.
    Think we’ve gone off topic somewhere along the line…..apologies Natalie!

  • #74352
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    I don’t think ‘Skakeel’ (otherwise known as Shakeel 😆 ) is Spanish, but his comment is certainly indicative of mis-trust in lawyers generally. In the old days they were always regarded as ‘solid,trustworthy and dependable’, like the vicar/church(?), the policeman(?) etc. How times have changed.
    Think we’ve gone off topic somewhere along the line…..apologies Natalie!

  • #74553
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    Charlie & Goodstich:

    Its not a question of mistrust: You have to look at a profession where wether you acheive or do not acheive your goal. The persona gets his fee ( In this instance a lawyer) For your info my late father was a lawyer.

    I have also dealt with many lawyers in different given circumstances.

  • #74353
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    Charlie & Goodstich:

    Its not a question of mistrust: You have to look at a profession where wether you acheive or do not acheive your goal. The persona gets his fee ( In this instance a lawyer) For your info my late father was a lawyer.

    I have also dealt with many lawyers in different given circumstances.

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