Sevillana Endesa Investigation needed

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #53063
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Can anyone suggest what can be done? Sorry, this is a bit involved.

    We were sold a house with mains electricity (or so we were told) in 2005.
    Our neighbours (developer) who sold it did not tell us that we could not have a contract, on the contrary we and other neighbours were told that we would be moved onto contract after the last house was built (April 2006). This probably was a lie and they intended to build more – I dont think this last one has sold though.
    We have subsequently found out that a contract can never happen as the developer had not got planning permissions, licenses etc ( our property lawyer did not advise this before we signed at notary). Effectively the house(s) there locally is/are illegal.
    The developer then tried to extort money out of us a year after we had moved in for an electricity connection ( a fee that was not mentioned previously by anyone and also the estate agent details state mains water and electricity connected in the price).

    They also wanted to charge for consumption for the year which would be fine if they could have given us proof that they were paying anyone.
    They either made excuses, such as the bill was at their town house, or just plain refused. They effectively said, this is the amount, it is owed to us, either pay it or get cut off – they would not put down rates, dates, units used etc. They said anything in order to get the desired result – ie LIED… LOTS!
    We decided not to pay until proof was forthcoming and so they have cut us off. (not great when you have 2 kids), so although we aren’t living there ,we couldn’t anyway, neither can we rent it out. Selling is out of the question due to the legality of the situation – we are not about to con anyone just because we have been. We just aren’t like that.

    The developer then announced that the electricity was theirs as they have a private transformer behind their cortijo and that they have a private agreement with the electricity company and no one was ever going to get a contract. We cant tell if this is true or just more lies, they seemed to change to story depending on who they were talking to.

    We have tried to get the local Endesa offices to investigate or confirm, either way, the legality of the situation, but they take the info and then will not answer emails etc afterwards. Even the Head Office call centre will no longer reply to my emails asking about an investigation – they have said contact the local office which of course has proved fruitless.
    I think we are getting stonewalled! We suspect widespread local corruption (familial networking) is at the root of the problem. Surprise, it’s ALBOX in Almeria we are talking about!
    2 lawyers have said the situation is not legal. One would not pursue it for us even though they sent a letter on our behalf to one of the offices but then would not follow it up when no response came back. Anyway they are local to the problem and we dont trust them not to have been got at – if you know what I mean?!
    The lawyer got the price revised by almost half and an email showing unit rates and units used plus a promise of a contract in our name. But we know that the latter is not possible as the legal situation stands, and they still wont give proof that they are paying anyone. More lies to get the money we suspect.

    Paying will not solve the long term problem, or short term, as they will probably try to charge us to have them shin back up the pole and put the wire back. I dont want to give in to never ending blackmail/extortion.

    To make matter worse, all our other neighbours paid up or said they did, but frankly we dont trust them either as they prefer to keep in with the Spanish neighbour (the developer).

    Any ideas 💡 would be gratefully received. A fresh perspective may help.
    Thanks to anyone who has taken the time to read this – bit of an essay, I know!

  • #73941
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    j.rubio@agentes.winterthur.es
    Juan Rubio,lawyer, in Heurcal-Overa, acted for us and we found him totally honest and trustworthy and very reasonably priced. He speaks quite good English.
    Email him and see if he can assist you.
    Have heard of others in your situation in Albox area .

  • #73977
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Melosine,
    Thanks for the recommendation, always helpful to know. We told all this to one lawyer who said that all we could do was keep contacting Sevillana Endesa, they did not want to be involved with this side of things, seemingly.
    I have the name and address now of the regional manager in Almeria so I will brush up on my best spanish and send him a letter…..registered, so that they cant admit having never received it!!

    Thanks, Fran

  • #73978
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I really feel sorry for the position you are in. However, Sevillana-Endesa will not install a meter on an illegal property. Sevillana have no responsibilty regarding your predicament. You should concentrate on bringing the developer to account and getting the house legalised (if possible)

  • #74004
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Katy,

    Yes, I am aware that they cannot give me a contract on the property as yet, due to lack of LFO. The problem is that we need to know if the supply we had been receiving was legal or not.
    I had been told that if it is illegal we could face a fine as the registered owner of the property. We cannot afford this.
    At the end of the day, if we can get the local situation legalised we can get a contract, but we need to know the situation now. The poles are there, the meters there. The developer is claiming it is his electricity and can charge us anything. I want to fight this from a position of knowledge.
    We are unable to pursue the developer as we do not trust the Spanish legal system- they are very buyer beware! Plus we did not know at the time of buying that we could view the PGOU and check it was not really urban land as stated in the Catastral record. We have been told that as this info was in the public domain at the time, it was our responsibility to double check it, ie not rely on the lawyer to say it was perfectly legal, which most rational legal systems allow for!
    This kind of 50:50 risk we cannot take at the moment.

    I would have thought it was in Endesa’s interest to know if anyone was taking money for their electricity and not passing it on to them. I couldn’t imagine SEB/Powergen who ever, putting up with this – their shareholders would be being cheated. But then again this is Spain – logic doesn’t come into it.

  • #74007
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    It is illegal for a supplier to charge more than the sevillana rate. You could try the Local consumer office and file a complaint.

  • #74008
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks Katy,

    I did not even know that was an option. I’ll find out where our local one is. It wont solve the long term problem as our developer/neighbour is as slippery as a bagful of eels and probably has a relative working there for good measure!! 😆
    I had been told anyway that no one but an electricity company could charge for a supply/consumption or is the info I have been given inaccurate?

    Cheers, Fran

  • #74012
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    OMIC offices for Almeria listed here:
    http://www.consumo-inc.es/directorio/interior/ … ov=ALMERIA

  • #74015
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ps yes I’ve read that reselling of electricity is technically illegal but it goes on and they had you over a barrel. They certainly can’t overcharge you.
    May sound a bit extreme but, as your legality situation is what is preventing you having your own electricity supply/contract and I don’t suppose for one minute that this will be sorted out in a hurry, why not forget about it – get solar/generator power?!

  • #74038
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi HillyBilly,

    I wish we could get solar, but to be honest we cant afford that kind of outlay at the moment. A generator is a cheaper option but unfortunately we cant trust any of the people at the “development” and the Spanish neighbours are intimidating bullies – especially as they believe that we owe them money for the illegal electricity connection and consumption. We would not want any kind of vandalism to occur while we aren’t living there. A difficult dilemma but thanks for the input.

    Cheers, Fran

  • #74045
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    What a total disgrace this is Fran, when a lawyer can’t even tackle it effectively.

    Have you thought about involving the Police ❓ If the money is not going to Endesa, surely a crime is being committed ❓ Will need to check more on this though.

  • #74047
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fran – Suzanne is absolutely right. This is a total disgrace, not only the situation re. the electricity but the fact you feel so intimidated by this neighbour of yours. You must be in despair.

    In my opinion, to go forward with this you really do need a good lawyer on your side. And remember, lawyers letters have a bigger impact than those from ‘Joe Public’. A good lawyer knows the correct route to follow, they have the right words and they know the law so know the correct areas to give the right amount of ‘push’. As Melosine has recommended her lawyer, would this not be a good route to go?

    You did not buy a property in Spain just to go through this stress, I feel the situation has to be tackled head-on with good legal support by your side. You can’t resolve this alone.
    Wish you well in bringing closure to this horrific situation.

  • #74052
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Suzanne and Charlie,

    When we got cut off by our neighbours we went straight to the local Guardia and explained the situation. They said it was between Sevillana Endesa, the developer and us, so would do nothing about it. They would not even go to our neighbour to try to reason with them, even though it was 9.30 at night, we had no electricity and 2 frightened kids with us!
    Our Spanish neighbours partied most of the night, obviously feeling very pleased with themselves. The English neighbours extent of help was to lend us (grudgingly) some candles, while they had a social party without us.

    Sevillana Endesa the next morning said that an investigation was needed and that the situation didn’t sound right, they needed our lawyer to send details of where the property was.

    We got a (recommended) lawyer to write a letter to Endesa, my husband delivered it by hand to one of the local Endesa offices (who refused to stamp it to say it had been received). Neither we or the lawyer heard anything more and the lawyer refused to chase, but instead took the Spanish neighbours view and told us to pay (this was after initially saying the situation was illegal). The lawyer just took their word for it that there was a transformer and private agreement but did/would not confirm this with Endesa or get proof for us that bills were being paid by the Spanish neighbour, even they were being paid to work on OUR behalf.
    Even more emails to the Endesa helpline who told us initially it needed investigating have been met with silence, plus the one guy who at another office took the information (ie escritura, nie’s etc) will not return my emails.

    Also our last lawyer (who recently told us the legal situation re our property) said it was up to us to keep contacting Endesa.

    As is the Spanish way, I am being sent round in circles and no one wants to “own” the problem and try to help me solve it. It is deeply frustrating that they cannot be straight forward about a situation that really is not that complicated. Hence I suspect deliberate stonewalling.

    Thank you for you words of support though. 🙂

  • #74054
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Have a look here Fran, & the ‘Procedure for Processing Complaints’:

    http://www.endesa.es/Portal/en/corporate_governance/art_of_association_regulations/Customer_Protect_Regulation.htm
    (scroll down the box)

    If you stick to their ‘Procedure’ initially, but don’t get anywhere within their time scale, you can take it to the Ombudsman.
    Hope this helps, Fran.

  • #74059
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well would you believe it, I have had a reply from one of the Endesa offices (the one that had the escritura and nie’s in March). He effectively says that there is no private agreement between Endesa and anyone, plus it is illegal to pay a neighbour for electricity the way we are being asked to. He also stated that this is a known situation around Albox.

    I have a few points to clarify with him but maybe bombarding him and Endesa in Madrid with emails has done the trick. He seems to have copied in his response to them, so I think I’ll thank him very much and do the same when I reply.

    He confirmed that until we get the legalities surrounding our property sorted we cannot have a contract, but we knew this. At least it feels like I am finally making some progress, no matter how small AND I have it in black and white. Whoopee ❗

    Fran

  • #74061
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fran wrote:

    …. it is illegal to pay a neighbour for electricity the way we are being asked to. He also stated that this is a known situation around Albox.
    Fran

    Glad to hear you are making some progress Fran. I hope Endesa prosecute your neighbours, & that they do something concrete about these ‘known situations’ rather than just turning a blind eye, as seems to have been going on in many areas of Spain for so many years. The Laws are there to protect everyone – it’s high time they are engaged.

  • #74258
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I dont hold out much hope there – there is so much familial networking in our area.
    I think the guy at the local office felt pressured to say something as I had got their head office involved( quite a number of times!!)

    I’ll let you know what his response is after I have sent him a reply and copy it into the head office again like he has.

    Fran

  • #74458
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I dont hold out much hope there – there is so much familial networking in our area.
    I think the guy at the local office felt pressured to say something as I had got their head office involved( quite a number of times!!)

    I’ll let you know what his response is after I have sent him a reply and copy it into the head office again like he has.

    Fran

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