Severe correption in property market & bargain times

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This topic contains 100 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #53108
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Bad times for the ones who want to sell a coastal property now but nice ones for the ones who want to buy one in the year ahead.

    A recently report tell that property developers are struggling to sell so a severe correption in the price is very probable.

    So this mean that is not time to buy offplan but to come to Spain, look around and fight with the vendor with the price. There is a lot of properties on the market so if you see one that you like you only has to say:

    I will take this for a 20% discount! If the vendor does not accept you only has to go to another one!

    Here the report:

    http://www.invertia.com/noticias/noticia.asp?idNoticia=1803358

  • #74208
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Supposing that the house has been realistically priced or already discounted? I have a friend who is trying to sell his parents house (already reduced twice and says he will not sell for less as he will just rent it). He has had viewers coming out from the UK after reading all these stories and putting in silly offers. Some houses are overpriced but many have adjusted their prices already!

  • #74209
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    It is part and parcel of the problem here! No one knows what they should pay or what to offer.

    To work from asking prices is misleading as owners tend to decide what they want in a rather hit and miss method – not necessarily what it is worth, or more importantly, what someone else is prepared to pay for it – as that is the true worth!

    However, the easiest guide would be to work from an actaul opr estimated BANK valuation and then reduce by 20-20% – should give you a good idea of worth – although bear in mind views and aspects as bank vals dont take that into account!

  • #74210
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    But whether someone has reduced their initial asking price once or three times is immaterial in this context. If vendors have reduced their asking price and their property is still not selling, all things being equal (i.e. there is nothing wrong with the property) then it’s still overpriced for the market.

    It may have been over priced to begin with, the market may have gone down, or a combination of the two can make the drop seem very large.

    As in boom, stable or bust markets it’s not Developers, Sales/Estate Agents or Vendors that place the market value on the property it is always the buyer. With only bad news on the horizon and a massive credit crunch increasing the cost and reducing the availability of mortgages., prices in all ‘boom’ market have a long way to correct yet.

  • #74211
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    I totally agree and have been saying so for the last 4 years!

    Its why the auctions are taking off but even then the bids hardly go above reserve and more likely to be on or below – resulting in a deal out of the auction room.

    I do expect this sitauation to last for a long time!

  • #74212
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    When the market is bad, the value is not what the bank values at less any %, but what the financial position of the owner is and what he can get a buyer to pay for it.
    When the financial markey is good, owners just feel they can hang onto the property until the right offer comes along, but when the lender comes knocking, they may have to cut their losses drasticallly.

  • #74214
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Or let it be repossesed – what I am seeing happening is owners dropping their prices but they cant go below mortgage plus costs to sell.

    If a buyer wont even pay that then the owner has to walk away – the bank then takes it!

  • #74215
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Also we have to have in mind that some developments are getting stuck. For example Lorca Golf Resort. The first and suppossed first golf resort in Lorca city (Murcia).

    The developer went in bankrupt and now the project is halt with a lot of mess on the landscape.

    Also agents continue to sell properties here. Of course!! But surely the development would take a lot of years to complete.

  • #74216
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I do agree with most of what you are saying but, suppose I decide to put my house on sale. Because of what I have read on this forum I ask for bank valuation less 30%. Some smart-arse comes from the UK and offers 30% below my asking price 😡 Do you see what I mean?

  • #74217
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Interesting subject

    Katy

    I agree with you, I will have this problem again next week when we are viewing, Inez is also right that a house or anything else for that matter is worth only what someone is prepared to pay.

    The agents are always going on about valuations and prices per sq mtr but at the end of the day you have to bid what the property is worth to you as a home, and if it is a home surely you would look at it as a medium to long term investment and a short term dip would not worry you to much.

  • #74218
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Exactly – some owners can ride this storm, but others for whatever reason, not necessarily financial, have to sell and unfortunately the market is against them. They will have to take whatever offer is on the table at that particular time – or refuse and gamble on ‘things picking up!’

  • #74219
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Property/holiday home is a medium to long term investment. It should be looked at as holiday or a retirement home, if this was ultimately intended.

    Speculation, wether property or any other commodity has its down side its just the nature of the beast.

    If you do not wish to get caught out. Have plan B & C, and keep your borrowing to a managable level so that you can sleep at night.

    (The above does not take into account illegal/criminal activities by all in sundry along the chain )

  • #74400
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    One question althought actually cience fiction:

    What would happen if some day 1 pound is 1 euro?

    Has anyone taken this in mind when buying a property overseas?

  • #74220
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    One question althought actually cience fiction:

    What would happen if some day 1 pound is 1 euro?

    Has anyone taken this in mind when buying a property overseas?

  • #74402
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “If a buyer wont even pay that then the owner has to walk away – the bank then takes it”
    But isn’t that one of the reasons why properties in auction often don’t reach reserve?
    An example being. A prospective purchaser makes an offer, say x€
    The vendor turns down the offer and puts it to auction at x+15%
    The property does not reach resrve. The funder reposesses and sells privately for x-30% with the security that the borrower is still responsible for the difference between the proceeds of the sale less costs and expenses, and the amount borrowed.
    A business decision would be to wait for reposession and buy off market.

  • #74221
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “If a buyer wont even pay that then the owner has to walk away – the bank then takes it”
    But isn’t that one of the reasons why properties in auction often don’t reach reserve?
    An example being. A prospective purchaser makes an offer, say x€
    The vendor turns down the offer and puts it to auction at x+15%
    The property does not reach resrve. The funder reposesses and sells privately for x-30% with the security that the borrower is still responsible for the difference between the proceeds of the sale less costs and expenses, and the amount borrowed.
    A business decision would be to wait for reposession and buy off market.

  • #74404
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    @peterparra wrote:

    Also we have to have in mind that some developments are getting stuck. For example Lorca Golf Resort. The first and suppossed first golf resort in Lorca city (Murcia).

    The developer went in bankrupt and now the project is halt with a lot of mess on the landscape.

    Also agents continue to sell properties here. Of course!! But surely the development would take a lot of years to complete.

    It wasn’t a secret why worked had stopped but was restarted ,albeit slowly, a couple of weeks ago and the area is ,and always has been looking very neat and tidy.
    At least this resort is legal and the golf course ,which I understand is a seperate entity to the properties, is being done first. Unlike other developments where promised facilities never happen.
    And NO I am not an agent just live in locality.

  • #74222
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    @peterparra wrote:

    Also we have to have in mind that some developments are getting stuck. For example Lorca Golf Resort. The first and suppossed first golf resort in Lorca city (Murcia).

    The developer went in bankrupt and now the project is halt with a lot of mess on the landscape.

    Also agents continue to sell properties here. Of course!! But surely the development would take a lot of years to complete.

    It wasn’t a secret why worked had stopped but was restarted ,albeit slowly, a couple of weeks ago and the area is ,and always has been looking very neat and tidy.
    At least this resort is legal and the golf course ,which I understand is a seperate entity to the properties, is being done first. Unlike other developments where promised facilities never happen.
    And NO I am not an agent just live in locality.

  • #74406
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    You would think so and in the UK they did accept anything often resorting to no reserves!

    Here in Spain different mentality. The MINIMUM you can get a repo for is what the bank is owed BUT then take into account unpaid community fees, outstanding elec/water bills and ibi etc. Repos here are a nightmare – we dont touch them for this reason

    We take from the owner just at the point of having to sell and hopefully sell it but yes its the reason why many stay unsold.

    I do forsee , and am in talks with several sources, a day when the banks will have to write off their losses.

    Ultimately the bank of spain underwrites all lenders here – hence why Cam bank was not allowed to go into liquidation despit 80% default rate!!! And why they are no longer allowed to lend to non-residents!

  • #74223
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    You would think so and in the UK they did accept anything often resorting to no reserves!

    Here in Spain different mentality. The MINIMUM you can get a repo for is what the bank is owed BUT then take into account unpaid community fees, outstanding elec/water bills and ibi etc. Repos here are a nightmare – we dont touch them for this reason

    We take from the owner just at the point of having to sell and hopefully sell it but yes its the reason why many stay unsold.

    I do forsee , and am in talks with several sources, a day when the banks will have to write off their losses.

    Ultimately the bank of spain underwrites all lenders here – hence why Cam bank was not allowed to go into liquidation despit 80% default rate!!! And why they are no longer allowed to lend to non-residents!

  • #74408
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Lorca Golf Resort.

    I am from Lorca and I work for one of the main land owners of Lorca so I know very well what I am talking about. Lorca Golf Resort is stopped until new order.

    LORCA.- La suspensión de pagos esta misma semana de la empresa “Tierras y Participaciones S.L.”, TyP, que construye por cuenta y para la catalana “Blue Lor S.L.”, promotora del primer campo de golf aprobado por la Comunidad Autónoma de la Región de Murcia, ha originado ya los primeros problemas graves en la promoción inmobiliaria y de ocio “Lorca Resort Golf”, que se desarrollaba desde hace más de un año, en una primera fase, dentro de 126 hectáreas de la finca “Villarreal”, en la diputación lorquina de Purias, tras su rápida recalificación urbanística por los palacios de San Patricio y San Esteban respectivamente.

    Días pasados, hasta hubo un intento serio de agresión física contra el principal vendedor de viviendas e intermediario-comisionista en la venta de esta finca, el conocido hombre de negocios lorquino, Casto Albarracín, por parte de un grupo exaltado de acreedores, exclusivamente trabajadores y proveedores de las obras de preparación del terreno para asentar un campo de golf de 27 hoyos, que reclamaban las cantidades que se les adeudan desde hace tiempo por parte de TyP.

    La suspensión de las obras está motivada, al parecer, por la falta de liquidez y las escasas ventas de las primeras sobre las previstas 1.800 casas individuales en tres millones de m2, de lujo y con parcela, bajo el argumento de poder gozar en exclusiva de un lugar paradisíaco con más de 3.000 horas de sol al año, junto a un parque natural protegido y a 10 minutos de la orilla del Mediterráneo;con centro comercial, helipuerto, cuatro hoteles, escuela de golf y no más de un 7% de edificabilidad total; todo esto último parece que no parece suficiente para arrancar sin problemas añadidos una inversión final prevista de 17 millones de euros.

    Esta promoción tenía, como la muy cercana Zerrichera, todas las bendiciones municipales y del gobierno autónomo a través del BORM, esta vez por parte del exalcalde socialista Miguel Navarro Molina y, como siempre, del presidente Valcárcel. El exsecretario local del PP en Lorca, Jesús López Molina, tuvo una influencia decisiva para que, en su día, este proyecto fuese aprobado en Lorca y Murcia sin ningún problema y así figura en la publicidad dirigida a potenciales inversores: “Con todos los permisos aprobados del gobierno municipal y regional”, junto con la garantía proclamada del éxito de su realización.

    Recientemente, un funcionario de la dirección general de Medio Ambiente de la Unión Europea, giró una discreta visita de inspección al lugar para comprobar las denuncias de ANSE y Ecologistas en Acción hace un año, en el sentido de pedir que se paralizasen las roturaciones en marcha porque estaban arrasando la mayor colonia de tortuga mora del mundo, unos 1.000 ejemplares, y porque afectaban a un Lugar de Interés Comunitario (LIC)y se hacían en el mismo límite de la ZEPA (Zona de Especial Protección de Aves) de la Sierra de Almenara.

    Unidades del SEPRONA, de la Guardia Civil de Lorca, han ordenado ya la paralización de las roturaciones de “Lorca Resort Golf” e instado a “Blue Lor S.L.” a reponer el paisaje a su estado original por no respetar e incumplir las condiciones impuestas por la preceptiva Declaración de Impacto Ambiental (DIA) de 2005, y al estar también este paraje, en gran parte propiedad anteriormente de la popular familia Carrasco, dentro de la Red Natura 2000 y conocido como sierra de la Torrecilla.

    Desmontes, extracción de olivos, destrucción de vaguadas y un desbroce total del terreno, han acabado con el mejor hábitat de tortuga mora de la Comunidad (con mayor impacto que en La Zerrichera incluso) y toda una flora silvestre, protegida por la legislación vigente de la Región de Murcia, según las denuncias de ANSE y Ecologistas en Acción, que no se explican cómo estas 126 hectáreas, de un total de 246 que tiene la finca, no estaban sometidas, igualmente, a protección legal (LIC) al albergar a semejante colonia de tortuga mora.

    “Blue Lor” es una empresa del grupo catalán Alze, que lleva vendidas más de 10.000 casas de lujo en Barcelona y la Costa Brava a través de su exclusivista de ventas, “Green Meeting Point”, de Figueras, en los últimos 35 años de experiencia en promoción, ocio y turismo (Club Golf d`Aro y Torremirona Golf). A este grupo también pertenece “TI Participaciones”, participada, a su vez, por la Caja de Ahorros del Mediterráneo (CAM).

  • #74224
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Lorca Golf Resort.

    I am from Lorca and I work for one of the main land owners of Lorca so I know very well what I am talking about. Lorca Golf Resort is stopped until new order.

    LORCA.- La suspensión de pagos esta misma semana de la empresa “Tierras y Participaciones S.L.”, TyP, que construye por cuenta y para la catalana “Blue Lor S.L.”, promotora del primer campo de golf aprobado por la Comunidad Autónoma de la Región de Murcia, ha originado ya los primeros problemas graves en la promoción inmobiliaria y de ocio “Lorca Resort Golf”, que se desarrollaba desde hace más de un año, en una primera fase, dentro de 126 hectáreas de la finca “Villarreal”, en la diputación lorquina de Purias, tras su rápida recalificación urbanística por los palacios de San Patricio y San Esteban respectivamente.

    Días pasados, hasta hubo un intento serio de agresión física contra el principal vendedor de viviendas e intermediario-comisionista en la venta de esta finca, el conocido hombre de negocios lorquino, Casto Albarracín, por parte de un grupo exaltado de acreedores, exclusivamente trabajadores y proveedores de las obras de preparación del terreno para asentar un campo de golf de 27 hoyos, que reclamaban las cantidades que se les adeudan desde hace tiempo por parte de TyP.

    La suspensión de las obras está motivada, al parecer, por la falta de liquidez y las escasas ventas de las primeras sobre las previstas 1.800 casas individuales en tres millones de m2, de lujo y con parcela, bajo el argumento de poder gozar en exclusiva de un lugar paradisíaco con más de 3.000 horas de sol al año, junto a un parque natural protegido y a 10 minutos de la orilla del Mediterráneo;con centro comercial, helipuerto, cuatro hoteles, escuela de golf y no más de un 7% de edificabilidad total; todo esto último parece que no parece suficiente para arrancar sin problemas añadidos una inversión final prevista de 17 millones de euros.

    Esta promoción tenía, como la muy cercana Zerrichera, todas las bendiciones municipales y del gobierno autónomo a través del BORM, esta vez por parte del exalcalde socialista Miguel Navarro Molina y, como siempre, del presidente Valcárcel. El exsecretario local del PP en Lorca, Jesús López Molina, tuvo una influencia decisiva para que, en su día, este proyecto fuese aprobado en Lorca y Murcia sin ningún problema y así figura en la publicidad dirigida a potenciales inversores: “Con todos los permisos aprobados del gobierno municipal y regional”, junto con la garantía proclamada del éxito de su realización.

    Recientemente, un funcionario de la dirección general de Medio Ambiente de la Unión Europea, giró una discreta visita de inspección al lugar para comprobar las denuncias de ANSE y Ecologistas en Acción hace un año, en el sentido de pedir que se paralizasen las roturaciones en marcha porque estaban arrasando la mayor colonia de tortuga mora del mundo, unos 1.000 ejemplares, y porque afectaban a un Lugar de Interés Comunitario (LIC)y se hacían en el mismo límite de la ZEPA (Zona de Especial Protección de Aves) de la Sierra de Almenara.

    Unidades del SEPRONA, de la Guardia Civil de Lorca, han ordenado ya la paralización de las roturaciones de “Lorca Resort Golf” e instado a “Blue Lor S.L.” a reponer el paisaje a su estado original por no respetar e incumplir las condiciones impuestas por la preceptiva Declaración de Impacto Ambiental (DIA) de 2005, y al estar también este paraje, en gran parte propiedad anteriormente de la popular familia Carrasco, dentro de la Red Natura 2000 y conocido como sierra de la Torrecilla.

    Desmontes, extracción de olivos, destrucción de vaguadas y un desbroce total del terreno, han acabado con el mejor hábitat de tortuga mora de la Comunidad (con mayor impacto que en La Zerrichera incluso) y toda una flora silvestre, protegida por la legislación vigente de la Región de Murcia, según las denuncias de ANSE y Ecologistas en Acción, que no se explican cómo estas 126 hectáreas, de un total de 246 que tiene la finca, no estaban sometidas, igualmente, a protección legal (LIC) al albergar a semejante colonia de tortuga mora.

    “Blue Lor” es una empresa del grupo catalán Alze, que lleva vendidas más de 10.000 casas de lujo en Barcelona y la Costa Brava a través de su exclusivista de ventas, “Green Meeting Point”, de Figueras, en los últimos 35 años de experiencia en promoción, ocio y turismo (Club Golf d`Aro y Torremirona Golf). A este grupo también pertenece “TI Participaciones”, participada, a su vez, por la Caja de Ahorros del Mediterráneo (CAM).

  • #74410
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The instance I quoted was in UK and the property failed to reach reserve at auction and was sold by the bank privately within 7 days of the auction, for 50% of the reserve.
    The borrow no doubt picking up the debt.
    From what you say of the procedure in Spain, the borrower has a bit more protection, or is less vulnerable than in UK?

  • #74225
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The instance I quoted was in UK and the property failed to reach reserve at auction and was sold by the bank privately within 7 days of the auction, for 50% of the reserve.
    The borrow no doubt picking up the debt.
    From what you say of the procedure in Spain, the borrower has a bit more protection, or is less vulnerable than in UK?

  • #74418
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Currently the borrower walks away with a charge showing as a defaulter on his credit rating – a bit like the UK was up to around 95ish if memory serves me right. After 95 (?) then banks would chase the borrowers for any outstanding mortgage and interest outstanding after auction sale.

    Here currently banks dont do that but then again they wont drop below the amount owing!

    Also the law here states any debts can be attached to the property, threfore in fact the NEW buyer picks up the tab! Also the same thing for cars and boats, in fact any asset!!

    So buyer beware of everything!

    I know of people having bought at the public court auctions thinking they have a bargain, but then finding out there is a lot owing and until its cleared, there is no clear title!

  • #74229
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Currently the borrower walks away with a charge showing as a defaulter on his credit rating – a bit like the UK was up to around 95ish if memory serves me right. After 95 (?) then banks would chase the borrowers for any outstanding mortgage and interest outstanding after auction sale.

    Here currently banks dont do that but then again they wont drop below the amount owing!

    Also the law here states any debts can be attached to the property, threfore in fact the NEW buyer picks up the tab! Also the same thing for cars and boats, in fact any asset!!

    So buyer beware of everything!

    I know of people having bought at the public court auctions thinking they have a bargain, but then finding out there is a lot owing and until its cleared, there is no clear title!

  • #74420
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    So Buyers Beware always use an independent advisor who knows the procedures.

  • #74230
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    So Buyers Beware always use an independent advisor who knows the procedures.

  • #74422
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Ideally through word of mouth of reputable others cos unfortunately reputable people dont have it tattooed on their foreheads!

    Shame really I suppose that the non-reputable ones dont have some kind of visible marking, although sometimes you can tell by the blackness of their eyes……………………… 😯

  • #74231
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Ideally through word of mouth of reputable others cos unfortunately reputable people dont have it tattooed on their foreheads!

    Shame really I suppose that the non-reputable ones dont have some kind of visible marking, although sometimes you can tell by the blackness of their eyes……………………… 😯

  • #74424
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez

    I always say its not the colour of the eyes but how far they are apart.

    I can tell em from 10 paces or 5 mins in there company

  • #74232
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez

    I always say its not the colour of the eyes but how far they are apart.

    I can tell em from 10 paces or 5 mins in there company

  • #74426
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    peterparra, I am sure you do know what you are talking about and that is obviously more than I but I stand my ground and say that the area has never looked a look a mess and it is legal .
    The translation to my understanding states that apart from a bankrupt builder it was the ecologolists that recently stopped the work because of the turtles but definately something was happening on the site 2 weeks ago.
    Whether or not the development goes ahead is not the reason we moved to Purias. Personally think it would spoil the ambience of this wonderfully friendly Spanish village but we have to move with the times and with the new commercial centre now underway and the desire by the locals that the proposed state of the art conference centre is built here I suspect that soon everything will be back on track.

  • #74233
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    peterparra, I am sure you do know what you are talking about and that is obviously more than I but I stand my ground and say that the area has never looked a look a mess and it is legal .
    The translation to my understanding states that apart from a bankrupt builder it was the ecologolists that recently stopped the work because of the turtles but definately something was happening on the site 2 weeks ago.
    Whether or not the development goes ahead is not the reason we moved to Purias. Personally think it would spoil the ambience of this wonderfully friendly Spanish village but we have to move with the times and with the new commercial centre now underway and the desire by the locals that the proposed state of the art conference centre is built here I suspect that soon everything will be back on track.

  • #74428
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peterparra

    Your post on this thred regarding the prospect of 1 pound being worth 1 euro has tickled me all evening. I am supprised that you have no responce, maybe to silly for words, I will respond if I can get my head round the implications which are huge.

    One thing for certain, this will never happen, Uk would sign up for monertry union at a fixed enrty rate benifical to its to its own needs and would probably get it, What about the American dollar and all the other high yeilding curriences,

    1 pound= 1 eruo= end of life as we know it

  • #74234
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peterparra

    Your post on this thred regarding the prospect of 1 pound being worth 1 euro has tickled me all evening. I am supprised that you have no responce, maybe to silly for words, I will respond if I can get my head round the implications which are huge.

    One thing for certain, this will never happen, Uk would sign up for monertry union at a fixed enrty rate benifical to its to its own needs and would probably get it, What about the American dollar and all the other high yeilding curriences,

    1 pound= 1 eruo= end of life as we know it

  • #74434
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Stevev6,
    I cant speak for others but I did not reply as before it made a sense to any one, you have to understand economics, monetery/fiscal system,geo politics, etc, etc.

    The point that you have rasised about £+€, parity is partly correct. Yes politically this would not allowed. Whereas ecomically it is. I had read that at one point of history there was $15 to a £. I am sure that at this point of history if some some said that there could be $2 to a £, this would have given incredulous responses.

  • #74237
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Stevev6,
    I cant speak for others but I did not reply as before it made a sense to any one, you have to understand economics, monetery/fiscal system,geo politics, etc, etc.

    The point that you have rasised about £+€, parity is partly correct. Yes politically this would not allowed. Whereas ecomically it is. I had read that at one point of history there was $15 to a £. I am sure that at this point of history if some some said that there could be $2 to a £, this would have given incredulous responses.

  • #74246
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Melosine,

    Happy to now that you moved to Purias. Lorca city is a wonderfull place. Not just because is my born city.

    Surely you have realiced about its people and pace of living. I hope you have tried this summer the typical Padillas restaurant at the Alamedas and our spectacular saint week.

    Welcome. When I talk about a recession in the property market I dont talk about people who comes here to buy a house and make a live but from the ones who only are trying to speculating with properties. Not a good idea today.

  • #74446
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Melosine,

    Happy to now that you moved to Purias. Lorca city is a wonderfull place. Not just because is my born city.

    Surely you have realiced about its people and pace of living. I hope you have tried this summer the typical Padillas restaurant at the Alamedas and our spectacular saint week.

    Welcome. When I talk about a recession in the property market I dont talk about people who comes here to buy a house and make a live but from the ones who only are trying to speculating with properties. Not a good idea today.

  • #74251
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Peterparra
    Lorca and the people are wonderful. Love at first sight. Only a few foreigners in the typically Spanish village of Purias at the moment and the people of Lorca who live here are overwhelmingly friendly and generous of heart.
    Very pleased that the Mayor and his councillors are not allowing the surrounding areas of this city to be abused as in other areas and am sure when Lorca Resort is finally finished…in about 8 years !!…it will only enhance a beautiful area.
    Have been several times to Padillas. Was there again last night. Was a trifle cold though .Incredible and most enjoyable experience.
    Unfortunately the excessive rain this year scuppered our efforts to see the magnificent floats Saints Week.

  • #74451
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Peterparra
    Lorca and the people are wonderful. Love at first sight. Only a few foreigners in the typically Spanish village of Purias at the moment and the people of Lorca who live here are overwhelmingly friendly and generous of heart.
    Very pleased that the Mayor and his councillors are not allowing the surrounding areas of this city to be abused as in other areas and am sure when Lorca Resort is finally finished…in about 8 years !!…it will only enhance a beautiful area.
    Have been several times to Padillas. Was there again last night. Was a trifle cold though .Incredible and most enjoyable experience.
    Unfortunately the excessive rain this year scuppered our efforts to see the magnificent floats Saints Week.

  • #74253
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Think that many will now be alot happier as I have found a real honest real estate company.
    Andelusian Dream Homes just phoned.

    1 You will be pleased to know that they have never,nor will they involve themselves with property that does not have all the planning/bank guarantees,and licence of occupation and they are very proud of that reputation.
    2 To view properties that do not have all this in place you will have to use agents with no morals.
    3 The Marbella council now have multi millions to spend from the money handed to them from the corruption to improve roads etc.
    4 There is no corruption anymore and the future is fantastic

    So everyones problems are now over and this must surely be the company to be with 😕
    Now no one now needs to worry about corruption so lets not have anymore moaning.
    Massive investment is now underway so hope everyone has a lovely bank holiday with the comfort of this ground breaking news.
    😀
    Frank

  • #74453
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Think that many will now be alot happier as I have found a real honest real estate company.
    Andelusian Dream Homes just phoned.

    1 You will be pleased to know that they have never,nor will they involve themselves with property that does not have all the planning/bank guarantees,and licence of occupation and they are very proud of that reputation.
    2 To view properties that do not have all this in place you will have to use agents with no morals.
    3 The Marbella council now have multi millions to spend from the money handed to them from the corruption to improve roads etc.
    4 There is no corruption anymore and the future is fantastic

    So everyones problems are now over and this must surely be the company to be with 😕
    Now no one now needs to worry about corruption so lets not have anymore moaning.
    Massive investment is now underway so hope everyone has a lovely bank holiday with the comfort of this ground breaking news.
    😀
    Frank

  • #74257
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I believe you Frank, just as I believe that the Lorca 8 year Golf project won’t spoil the area (if it goes ahead!!) 🙂

  • #74457
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I believe you Frank, just as I believe that the Lorca 8 year Golf project won’t spoil the area (if it goes ahead!!) 🙂

  • #74262
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Katy , your one liners are just brilliant 😆 😆 😆 😆

  • #74462
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Katy , your one liners are just brilliant 😆 😆 😆 😆

  • #74263
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    katy

    i really don’t why you are so cynical?. Everthing Just Frank says is right, and just in case there was any doubt, i had it verified by the pink fairies at the bottom of my garden.

    ……Nice one Frank, do they really think anyone would take them even remotely seriously???

  • #74463
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    katy

    i really don’t why you are so cynical?. Everthing Just Frank says is right, and just in case there was any doubt, i had it verified by the pink fairies at the bottom of my garden.

    ……Nice one Frank, do they really think anyone would take them even remotely seriously???

  • #74265
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    They don´t exactly have a very good ethical record have they. Well it is SO good that they now has turned honest and we should all flock to buy from them. I am sure they can come up with a fantastic investment in one of the many wonderful off plans on offer. Best to buy two or three when we are at it.Of course they will sell them on for us before completion and of course they will return our phone calls. After all they have just become our best friends and buddies and will look after our interests and they would never lever let us down now would they. Pahh!

  • #74465
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    They don´t exactly have a very good ethical record have they. Well it is SO good that they now has turned honest and we should all flock to buy from them. I am sure they can come up with a fantastic investment in one of the many wonderful off plans on offer. Best to buy two or three when we are at it.Of course they will sell them on for us before completion and of course they will return our phone calls. After all they have just become our best friends and buddies and will look after our interests and they would never lever let us down now would they. Pahh!

  • #74267
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can see that there are a couple of are showing a slight cynical approach to my posting so to try to convince you what a wonderful company this is.?
    I ❓ being me and my good wife have been SPECIALLY selected for the gold star service and receive 4 nights instead of 3 and in a 4 star hotel all for £99.00, O.K Ya 8) 8) 8)
    Other mere mortals get 3 nights and only a 3 star hotel silver treatment..
    I am sure that after reading this you may be regretting that you may just not qualify for the gold star service. 😥
    Say your sorry and I will see if I can sort it out for you,then you to can be one of the specially selected ones. 🙄

    Frank

  • #74467
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can see that there are a couple of are showing a slight cynical approach to my posting so to try to convince you what a wonderful company this is.?
    I ❓ being me and my good wife have been SPECIALLY selected for the gold star service and receive 4 nights instead of 3 and in a 4 star hotel all for £99.00, O.K Ya 8) 8) 8)
    Other mere mortals get 3 nights and only a 3 star hotel silver treatment..
    I am sure that after reading this you may be regretting that you may just not qualify for the gold star service. 😥
    Say your sorry and I will see if I can sort it out for you,then you to can be one of the specially selected ones. 🙄

    Frank

  • #74269
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I am so so jealous that you have been offered this by the wonderful ADH. I am sure you will come back with a real cracker of a investment that will makes us all green with envy.I would have loved to have been offered this opportunity, but since buying from them, they seem to have forgotten about me and don´t even want to speak to me 😥 😥 I can´t understand why 😥

  • #74469
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I am so so jealous that you have been offered this by the wonderful ADH. I am sure you will come back with a real cracker of a investment that will makes us all green with envy.I would have loved to have been offered this opportunity, but since buying from them, they seem to have forgotten about me and don´t even want to speak to me 😥 😥 I can´t understand why 😥

  • #74271
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    i’m gutted and i’m sorry. I hope i might just be in time to get the last one. What a chance, what a company!. You lucky thing Frank, it sounds like you got in there just at the right time.

  • #74471
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    i’m gutted and i’m sorry. I hope i might just be in time to get the last one. What a chance, what a company!. You lucky thing Frank, it sounds like you got in there just at the right time.

  • #74273
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    I really must take them up on their offer of passing clients to them for a slice of their honestly earned commissions! 😆

  • #74473
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    I really must take them up on their offer of passing clients to them for a slice of their honestly earned commissions! 😆

  • #74278
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Laggen . You clearly were not one of the specially ones were you so thats your problem and you are going to hate me for this but my gold star offer INCLUDES 8) after sales care. 8) 8) 8) 8)YEP ❗ All inclusive,and I will bet your kicking yourself by now.sorry to put the boot in.
    Goodstich 44 I am afraid you have blown your chance,(live with it) did my best but it’s a no I am afraid to tell you: 😥
    Inez . I can see you’re converted and see that they are prepared to offer such a noble and ultimate gesture of goodwill to fellow real estate members. 😀
    Just have to face facts that some of us have it and some don’t and some are just plain lucky to be in the right place at the right time.
    Sorry to sound so blasé about this its clear to me( and they have told me this off the record you understand,so dont tell anyone) that the problems you have all had will now not happen to me or other GOLD star customers :

    Frank Super Cool

  • #74478
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Laggen . You clearly were not one of the specially ones were you so thats your problem and you are going to hate me for this but my gold star offer INCLUDES 8) after sales care. 8) 8) 8) 8)YEP ❗ All inclusive,and I will bet your kicking yourself by now.sorry to put the boot in.
    Goodstich 44 I am afraid you have blown your chance,(live with it) did my best but it’s a no I am afraid to tell you: 😥
    Inez . I can see you’re converted and see that they are prepared to offer such a noble and ultimate gesture of goodwill to fellow real estate members. 😀
    Just have to face facts that some of us have it and some don’t and some are just plain lucky to be in the right place at the right time.
    Sorry to sound so blasé about this its clear to me( and they have told me this off the record you understand,so dont tell anyone) that the problems you have all had will now not happen to me or other GOLD star customers :

    Frank Super Cool

  • #74279
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    I just love it – Frank Super Cool!

    You must send us a picture of your teaspoon so we can rub our fingers on it and enjoy some of your blessed luck

    The andalusian dream sun only shines on the righteous!

    Enjoy and may your chequebook be with you! 😀

  • #74479
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    I just love it – Frank Super Cool!

    You must send us a picture of your teaspoon so we can rub our fingers on it and enjoy some of your blessed luck

    The andalusian dream sun only shines on the righteous!

    Enjoy and may your chequebook be with you! 😀

  • #74663
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Interesting article here:

    ‘Angst and denial as Spain’s property boom ends’

    MADRID, Sept 3 (Reuters) – On a street corner in Tetuan, a working-class area of Madrid, hand-written “for sale” notices have faded to yellow as owners hold out months for their asking prices, refusing to believe that a nine-year property boom is over.

    Having gained 190 percent since 1998, one of the world’s hottest property markets has finally succumbed to high lending rates, oversupply of a million homes in the past four years and prices that are up to 30 percent overvalued.

    Real estate agent Angel Velazquez says some homeowners in Tetuan have cut prices by up to 25 percent to try to attract a buyer, while small property agencies have gone under after months without a sale.

    “It’s taking time for people to realise the boom is over, they think they can still make lots of money, but it’s finished,” Velazquez said.

    The government’s national figures have not registered a decline, reporting a 5.8 percent increase in prices for the second quarter over a year earlier. And Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who faces an election next year, assures Spaniards and foreign holiday home owners the property market will have a soft landing, unlike previous meltdowns in the 1990s and 1980s.

    Spain’s economy is robust, with unemployment at a 29-year low, supported by strong euro zone conditions. But tens of thousands of construction workers could lose jobs as residential construction slows. That could cut Spanish growth by a percentage point in 2008 and end Spain’s long outperformance of euro zone peers, economists warn.

    “If we’re lucky, we’re entering a period of house price stagnation around the level of inflation, which will include price falls,” said Fernando Encinar, a director of Idealista.com, Spain’s biggest online property advertising site.

    Price declines could be sharper, and drag on longer, if firms continue to flood the market with new homes. Stock market investors remain jittery as the global credit crunch puts extra pressure on over-leveraged Spanish real estate firms.

    “There is potential for panic,” says economist Susanna Garcia at Deutsche Bank in London.

    SPANISH SPRAWL

    Nearly a third of all concrete and asphalt covering Spain was laid in the last 14 years, as the former European economic backwater built homes and infrastructure and took per capita income to a level now close to the EU average. Ranks of identical ochre and beige brick apartment blocks have marched out over plains and farmland around cities like Madrid and Valencia. A symbol of the boom is Sanchinarro, a higher-end neighbourhood on the sprawling northern edge of the capital.

    Forget the Spain of cafe-lined streets and noisy plazas. The only sounds in Sanchinarro are the whir of air conditioners and muffled shouts of children splashing in gated, communal swimming pools.

    Wealthier Spaniards sick of crowded, noisy inner city living moved out to its blocks and now shop at nearby malls and hypermarkets. Others went to out-of-town housing estates served by wide new highways built on EU development funds. Immigrants moved into their homes.

    On Spain’s Mediterranean, holiday villas have mushroomed as hundreds of thousands of Britons and Germans bought property in the sun on easy credit.

    Spanish families paid for their homes with cheap loans and tripled household debt to 130 percent of disposable income in a decade. Over 80 percent of Spaniards’ wealth is tied up in property, the highest level in Europe. Only 40 percent of Spanish home owners have a mortgage, but over 90 percent of the loans are on variable rates, making Spaniards more exposed to rising interest rates than other Europeans.

    Spain’s coastal market has seen double digit price declines. Existing homes in second city Barcelona lost 1.3 percent of their value during the second quarter, according to Idealista.com. Madrid, Spain’s largest market, will determine how low nationwide prices can go, analysts say.

    INVESTOR EXIT

    Only a year ago, ultra-modern, 70 square meter apartments in Sanchinarro would have been snapped up at 450,000 euros ($615,200) before they were even built as Spaniards saw only one direction for house prices.

    Today, completed apartments stand empty as Madrid homes take an average 200 days to sell compared with 100 this time last year. Prices are expected to fall across all areas of the city next year, with lower income neighborhoods and isolated, new developments on the outskirts hit hardest.

    Many Spaniards who bought houses as investments are heading for the exits. Guillermo Brincones hopes to sell his 120 square metre rooftop apartment in Madrid’s new Las Tablas neighborhood. “You’re starting to see assets that are much more attractive investments than property,” says Brincones, a 35-year-old civil engineer.

    Spain has plenty of potential buyers from the arrival of 4 million immigrants since 2000, a 1970s baby boom, a rising divorce rate and higher employment among the young and women. The problem is that many are now priced out of the market.

    A sure way to increase accessibility is house price deflation, says economist Angel Laborda.
    © Reuters

  • #74752
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi

    What are the views now from the the posts of doom and gloom for the financial and property markets following the sub prime lending situation.
    As it appears to have at the moment to have been a blip, will they review the Spanish market different now that record numbers of Brits are leaving this country with Spain very much at or near the top of the list.
    Could it be these experts are wrong again ?

    Frank 8)

  • #74767
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Hi

    What are the views now from the the posts of doom and gloom for the financial and property markets following the sub prime lending situation.
    As it appears to have at the moment to have been a blip, will they review the Spanish market different now that record numbers of Brits are leaving this country with Spain very much at or near the top of the list.
    Could it be these experts are wrong again ?

    Frank 8)

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d7a4be24-5b1c-11dc-8c32-0000779fd2ac.html

    This danger has already materialised for vehicles that depend on the asset-backed commercial paper sector – short-term notes backed by collateral such as mortgages.

    In recent weeks, investors have increasingly refused to re-invest in this paper.

    Which means anyone wanting to buy a property will have to jump through hoops to convince a lender that they are a good credit risk and then they will pay a hefty premium on top of euribor.

    It’s like that scene in all the roadrunner cartoons where the baddie has run over the edge of the cliff, his legs are still moving frantically, and he still hasn’t fell………………..until he realises where he is and then he drops like a stone.

  • #74772
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Mike

    My view is different in that the leaders will now heavily target those who are not sub prime or worst to balance their risk, whether or not they can back to back it.

    regards

    Paul

  • #74773
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    i was in Frigiliana last week.

    A new development of apartments was being advertised and a 2 bedroom unit was priced at €165,000. That’s before any haggling.

    18 months ago the asking price for a 2 bed apartment was at least €190,000.

    And still they’re building more…

  • #74774
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    Hi Mike

    My view is different in that the leaders will now heavily target those who are not sub prime or worst to balance their risk, whether or not they can back to back it.

    regards

    Paul

    Oh yes. I can see your point, Paul. However, I think the banks will still charge a greater premium because they will no longer be able to sell these loans on and so the amount they can lend will be much less. So they will raise the bar and fewer people will be considered good credit risks.

    I remember when I bought my house around 1993. I had to jump through hoops proving that I had worked for the same company for so many years, show bank statements with my wages paid in, show that I had money to make the repair suggested in the surveyor’s report. I think we may go back to those days very shortly.

    I’m not suggesting that there has been widespread fraud by borrowers but in an era when house prices are surging forward it’s easy to turn a blind eye to figures that don’t add up 100% because the market is very forgiving. It isn’t now.

  • #74775
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yep, it looks like it’s back to the real world and with the party having gone on so long and with everyone getting so high, a lot of people and especialy those under 40ish, it will be a new experiance!

    We are only at the beginging of the markets unwinding. There is only one way for property prices to go (as they are a debt backed inflated asset class) for the next few years and it isn’t up or across.

  • #74778
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @pablo Silver or Lead? wrote:

    Yep, it looks like it’s back to the real world and with the party having gone on so long and with everyone getting so high, a lot of people and especialy those under 40ish, it will be a new experiance!

    We are only at the beginging of the markets unwinding. There is only one way for property prices to go (as they are a debt backed inflated asset class) for the next few years and it isn’t up or across.

    I think it’s going to be sad for a great number of people. Especially those who haven’t lived through a recession before. It gets very depressing.

  • #74783
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mike
    It’s only depressing if you wish to take the negative view.
    I personally agree with Paul and while sub prime lending will take years
    to re-emerge I feel that those with the right financial status will have little
    problem obtaining a mortgage .
    Reality is that the sub prime lending disaster did not happen (yet
    anyway) so 90% of the pundits were wrong.
    Think anyone who is realistic understands that they have had either little
    or no increase in value of property in Spain over the past 3 years
    while the U.K has shown massive increases to such an extent where
    Spain is starting to look reasonable value.
    Good 300,000 Euro large apartment in lets say Marbella is difficult to
    replicate in most good parts of the U.K
    Council taxes/crime/and over all cost of living in the U.K is now
    becoming a joke
    Life style ,weather,standard of living in Spain is better so I will wager
    the market will perform better that many will have you believe.

    Frank 8)

  • #74784
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well my husband & I were delighted to read Ashtondav’s post, re property prices in Frigiliana. We are going out there again soon. Maybe we may bag a bargain! 😀 We’d rather be in Frigiliana than Marbella. It is a lovely ,friendly, Spanish village. We feel more confident to dip our toe in the market now AND we have an excellent Lawyer. We don’t want an investment or to let it out. Just a home from home to chill out. 8)

  • #74786
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Claire

    It’s worth checking out the two new developments, Frigiliana Heights 2 and 3. These will be either side of the new botannical garden, similar to the one near the children’s playground. Frig heights 2 looks finished and occupied (And where i saw the ads for 2 bed, 2 bathroom units for €165k). Frig heights 3 looks as though it will complete in 12/18 months.

    I’m sure you can snaffle a bargain, and with these places virtually opposite the gym and village pool they’re ideal.

    We were over for the frigiliana festival a couple of weeks ago. It was great fun, especially the RUTA de TAPAS, where you could get a little tapa and a beer or wine for €1!!! You got a little stamp for each tapa and when you had all eleven different bars and restaurants (yes, 11!) you got a free T shirt from the tourist office. We thought we would go to the evening concerts but they didn’t start ’til midnight and were tapased out by then. Lord knows how the young managed to stay up for the open air night club (it kicked off at 2AM!!!)

    We love Frigiliana 😀

  • #74787
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @ashtondav wrote:

    Hi Claire
    We were over for the frigiliana festival a couple of weeks ago. It was great fun, especially the RUTA de TAPAS, where you could get a little tapa and a beer or wine for €1!!!

    Low labour costs?

    @ashtondav wrote:

    You got a little stamp for each tapa and when you had all eleven different bars and restaurants (yes, 11!) you got a free T shirt from the tourist office. We thought we would go to the evening concerts but they didn’t start ’til midnight and were tapased out by then. Lord knows how the young managed to stay up for the open air night club (it kicked off at 2AM!!!)

    We love Frigiliana 😀

    It does sound a great place. I do like Spain and the people

  • #74788
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Claire
    Its a lovely area and with your extensive knowledge and now having a good solicitor I really wish you well in your search.
    If that price is right then there is hardly a one bedroom apartment around good parts of the U.K at that price right now so please let us know what its like.
    Have two mates that are going out for a nosey with a view to buy in or around Marbella so in the end no matter what the forecasters say with regards stock markets or property, they are very often wrong as its a moving target and thats often where the money is made or in your case a potential good time to get a property you want at the right price,

    Frank 8)

  • #74789
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We know Frigiliana well. We have several friends there English & Spanish. We’ve been going there for the last 5 years , usually twice a year. We were hoping to view the apartments you are talking about Ashtondav, when we were there in June but time ran out. We’ve seen them being built. Now they are complete they look very attractive. Also , nothing can be built in front of them. We sat looking at them whilst we enjoyed a glass of wine and tapas by the botanical garden .We will for sure look this time as my daughter & son-in-law will be there too. They are very astute and I don’t think they could endure going through our ordeal again!

    I know there have been problems with these apartments. The builder got carried away with the brickwork and had to demolish some.( by the gardens)
    For sure we will be very very very very careful!!

    Mike, a coffee in the town costs just 1euro… a beer not much more. 😀

  • #74790
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
  • #74793
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hopefully that will make for “attractive” prices to be had.

  • #74794
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Mike
    It’s only depressing if you wish to take the negative view.

    Frank, When I said depressing what I meant to say is that recessions are depressing, i.e. there is a general feeling of depression amongst the people. I remember the problems of the 70s when rivers were not cleaned because there wasn’t the budget. That kind of thing.

    Personally, I’m delighted that there will be a recession, I think they are just a part of capitalism and by predicting the coming recession I will prove to myself that I have some understanding of economic matters.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    I personally agree with Paul and while sub prime lending will take years
    to re-emerge I feel that those with the right financial status will have little
    problem obtaining a mortgage .

    But financial institutions will be far more rigorous in determining who has the right financial status and they will raise the bar.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Reality is that the sub prime lending disaster did not happen (yet
    anyway) so 90% of the pundits were wrong.

    And I could be wrong. However, the banks have been able to increase their lending by selling mortgage debt in the form of bonds. If they are no longer able to sell these bonds then the debt stays on their balance sheets and the amount they can lend is reduced.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Think anyone who is realistic understands that they have had either little
    or no increase in value of property in Spain over the past 3 years
    while the U.K has shown massive increases to such an extent where
    Spain is starting to look reasonable value.

    Little or no increase on the CDS, but other parts have seen increases, I believe. I wouldn’t want to buy in Andalucia anymore. It’s a beautiful place but there has been so much building there and ther seems to be a problem with water. But that’s just my opinion.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Good 300,000 Euro large apartment in lets say Marbella is difficult to
    replicate in most good parts of the U.K

    Ah!! Yes, Marbella is different. But it seems to me that the whole coast is being priced at Marbella prices. Or am I exagerating?

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Council taxes/crime/and over all cost of living in the U.K is now
    becoming a joke
    Life style ,weather,standard of living in Spain is better so I will wager
    the market will perform better that many will have you believe.

    Frank 8)

    Like I have said elsewhere, I have encountered no crime in Manchester in my time here. The cost of living is about the same in that I spend about the same each month as I did in Spain but then I rented there whereas I own my house here. But rent in Spain was only €300 per month so not a great amount of difference.

    You are right about the weather though but at the moment with all the weather changes going on in the world I am glad of the rain. Of course it has screwed up some food production here but we can adapt to changing weather patterns much better than we can to no rain at all!

    A wager. That sounds interesting. Is there any reliable and independent index which we can compare today against a year’s time?

  • #74795
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Exactly right
    Lenders business may be rather more careful but if you qualify for a mortgage with a reasonable down payment they will be very keen
    What appears to be happening is no real panic at the moment and the slightest sign of upward movement after the past 3 stagnet years will prove very good for the better areas that have not seen over supply.
    Any reported price falls may prove to be from those that over inflated the asking price in the first place or those off plan completed properties that for variuos reasons are not as desirable as promised.

    Frank 8)

  • #74797
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sounds to me like a very bumpy merry-go-round, for some. Some who have/are suing for their money back are also eager to ‘grab a bargain’ in Spain while they can, & take advantage of the situation. As they say, That’s Life, but whilst the Spanish people struggle to cope with their very uncertain economy it will be interesting to see what effect this has on the Spanish/ex-pat relationship. 🙁

  • #74798
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Suzanne wrote:

    but whilst the Spanish people struggle to cope with their very uncertain economy it will be interesting to see what effect this has on the Spanish/ex-pat relationship. 🙁

    I am sure they will appreciate any input to their economy from any nationality.

    On another note ,of the 6 very good English friends we have in Frigiliana, 3 have/are being treated for skin cancer. One had a spot the size of a pinprick on his nose. He never goes out without a wide brimmed hat on. He had 19 stitches on his face. So rain in the UK with the occasional sunny day may be a better option.!

  • #74799
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I was actually looking at the bigger picture.

    Claire is well aware that my mother has skin cancer. I find her out-of the-blue, off-topic comment, responding to my posting, extremely insensitive.

  • #74806
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @Suzanne wrote:

    That’s Life, but whilst the Spanish people struggle to cope with their very uncertain economy it will be interesting to see what effect this has on the Spanish/ex-pat relationship. 🙁

    Good point. It won’t help relationships, will it!!

  • #74807
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Mike
    Interesting reply in that you predict a recession and I feel it will be avoided
    Some pundits said the F.T.S.E would reach 7,000 by year end however events take over predictions
    Yep the Costa del Sol prices do seem to be similar to Marbella and that’s not hard to fathom.
    No building in Marbella so the estate agents have to sell to feed their greedy mouths and in case you didn’t know Mickey Mouse and his mates are moving in so prices will rocket, with rents of 1,000 euros a week. Honest ?
    Difficult to sell anything around Marbella with the corruption situation however with them probably being the first to sort their act out I have serious investors who think that this may be a prime time to look.
    As Suzanne says it’s a merry go round and it all about when or how you get off will determine the outcome for individuals
    As Paul says he has his apartment in Los Lagos as a pension which he can enjoy now.
    I have a feeling that his pension will do just fine given time.

    Frank 8)

  • #74808
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As Paul says he has his apartment in Los Lagos as a pension which he can enjoy now.

    As Paul says he has his apartment in Los Jardines as part of his pension which he can enjoy now.

  • #74809
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Whoops
    Sorry Paul , Near yet so far. My answer is still the same.
    Just a mix up confusing with someone else who like has made the same decision as you on Los Lagos.

    Frank 8)

  • #74819
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think it will be cash buyers who will pick up the favourable prices as anyone wanting a mortgage may think twice about buying anywhere in the current economic climate.

  • #74829
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    The first to get the bargains will be the spanish, eg the bank clerks, friends and family of agents, Lawyers. I lost one to a bank official in 1995 which was a snip. I do think that the British love affair with a second home abroad is waning. There will always be some buyers but not the mad scramble of a few years ago. It resembled the dot.com boom. Have to say though I haven’t noticed any bargains around marbella, only reductions are the ones that had an inflated price initially. Anyone can put a house on the market for 300,000 and reduce it to 250,000. Reality being it is only worth 230,000.

  • #74831
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    You are right Katy in that a property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Where I live often that is above the asking price!
    I also think it is only fair that the Spanish should pick up the bargains, but maybe not those in the front line, eg the bank clerks, friends and family of agents, Lawyers etc.

  • #74839
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Difficult to sell anything around Marbella with the corruption situation however with them probably being the first to sort their act out I have serious investors who think that this may be a prime time to look.

    What investment are they making, Frank? Are they going to hold onto the property for capital appreciation? Or are they going to rent the place out? As a holiday rental or more long term? I’d be very interested to see inside the mind of a serious investor in these particular circumstances.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    As Suzanne says it’s a merry go round and it all about when or how you get off will determine the outcome for individuals

    I like to compare it to a big dipper.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    As Paul says he has his apartment in Los Lagos as a pension which he can enjoy now.
    I have a feeling that his pension will do just fine given time.
    Frank 8)

    Paul also said that his apartment is part of his pension. Wise man. I would never have all my eggs in one basket when it came to my pension

  • #74845
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Mike
    No not a serious investor (not sure if that was a dig) just a person that has perhaps ducked and dived rather a lot so have to balance many situations.

    Yep ,big dipper or merry go round what ever ,if your on it at the moment then you are hardly likely to get off at the moment so what’s the choice.

    Paul would have probably had to complete anyway so decided that this was going to form part of his retirement.(certainly better than loosing his deposit and its a lovely location) By the way its not Los Lagos ,its just around the corner.

    Don’t think I would say this is the best option for many other areas of Spain and for some it may be better to cut their looses.

    Consider as its Marbella and their corruption will be sorted before the rest has even started and as the prices are similar to other less popular areas so think it will do o.k.for the price he would have paid.( Pension is supposed to be a longer viewed investment)

    Does he rent ? poor rental returns at the moment but should he rent it and can can afford to add to pay off capital then sit it out .

    Everyone must make a decision on there own situation and NO one fits all senario can apply.

    Frank 8)

  • #74848
    Profile photo of mike
    mike
    Participant

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Hi Mike
    No not a serious investor (not sure if that was a dig) just a person that has perhaps ducked and dived rather a lot so have to balance many situations.

    Sorry, Frank. You did refer to serious investors that you knew considering Marbella. I just can’t see it at present given the uncertainty in the economy.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Yep ,big dipper or merry go round what ever ,if your on it at the moment then you are hardly likely to get off at the moment so what’s the choice.

    Well, from what I gather, those buying off plan and yet to complete will only apply for their mortgage at the time of completion. They will find that they have to jump through more hoops and the bank will have a much smaller pool of money to play with at higher rates. They’ll get off at some point and in some way.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Paul would have probably had to complete anyway so decided that this was going to form part of his retirement.(certainly better than loosing his deposit and its a lovely location) By the way its not Los Lagos ,its just around the corner.

    Don’t think I would say this is the best option for many other areas of Spain and for some it may be better to cut their looses.

    Oh, don’t get me wrong, Frank. If I was committed to a property then I’d be quite happy to complete and to live in Marbella.

    @Just Frank wrote:

    Everyone must make a decision on there own situation and NO one fits all senario can apply.

    Frank 8)

    And there’s the rub. How many people just assumed that the good times were here to stay with ever increasing property prices and no matter what their circumstances they could never go wrong with property?

  • #74849
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mike
    Just a bit like my life.,when I think its going ok someones hits me in the
    b–lls.
    Agree that I probably wouldnt follow these investors however these particular guys have a damn good record to date and are targeting the right deals?.
    The sercret here is for me not to get involved then they will do very well. 😕

    Frank 8)

  • #74852
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Mike – the only serious investors around are not finding the figures work out – I have mentioned this on another thread. Just because something seems good on paper doesnt mean it stacks in reality and the reality is that rarely it doesnt.

    Katy – you are correct in that the ‘bargains’ filter down to the banks who pass it around to themselves, friends family, notaries and clients. BUT this happened in the UK in the late 80s early 90s (I have been in this game for over 22 years – scary!) but there comes a time where there is surplus and this is coming. Now banks are talking about offloading repos, although what I have been offered isnt worth it yet, in around 12-18 months it will be. Thats when perhaps banks will have to accept whatever they get – no reserves – as opposed to demanding a minimum. With the massive oversupply and the teetering due to interest rises etc etc etc I feel confident this will happen.

    Andalusia is based on a service industry as was under Mrs Thatcher – no need to explain expect to the younger members of the forum the knock on effect and why the recession in the UK started and happened. Its the same here. Without clients with money, I starve! As does the restaurant owner etc etc etc. Coca cola profits from restaurant sales are down 20% on this time last year – what does that tell you!

    Bar/rest owners very worried and complining profits down, therefore staff released etc etc etc. I hear even the Lookie lookie men arent doing as well!

    The only real buyers are lifestyle ones – second homes, people moving here permenantly and families where the husband either works from home or commutes – and unfortunatley they are not buying the 2bed 2 bath properties.

    Marbella has released the PGOU for the people – I have been to see it. Its under scrutiny, changes will be made then it goes to the socialists in Seville for rubber stamping. Every man and dog knows its going to be knocked back time and time again – as it was under Gil and so nothing will go forward until either the government changes or the local town hall changes political persuasion! Thats a fact folks so yes everything will be legalized BUT it will take a lot of time!

    I heard yesterday a development existing with license for 6 years just had it revoked, owners told cant buy or sell until resolved!!! So dont believe the good news either in the papers!

    Well thats all, Im off to enjoy the sun and sangria and not worry about it – after all, manana is another day!

  • #74858
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paul would have probably had to complete anyway so decided that this was going to form part of his retirement.(certainly better than loosing his deposit and its a lovely location) By the way its not Los Lagos ,its just around the corner.

    Nope wasn’t forced or cajoled in to completing, good property, in the right place, at a price which seemed to be fair for the area (off plan). In fact it was getting married and deciding to have kids which made me think either more in the pension (possiably reducing balance each year 🙁 ) or buy a place to go on holiday eventually with our children. The latter looked favourite, so we did.

    Sorry slightly off topic.

    As for the topic those with good credit ratings will attached any money they need to do whatever. Europe is awash with money looking for an investment and growth, that’s why the sub prime market took off, i.e. the prime market is full we have to lend below prime at rates which means if we lose some we still win.

    Is anyone actually in negative equity on the CDS, i really do wonder, it’s my veiw that many will be able to wash thier faces and get out even, at worst.

    By the way i’m no expert this is just my view.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #74860
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Paul
    I gather you are referring to my comment made on the ‘freefall’ thread.

    I actually said: People who purchased in the last couple of years or so with a large mortgage I see dipping into negative equity in times to come.

    I’m also no expert and this is just my opinion, but certainly I would love to be proved wrong. A relative of mine lost his home in the last UK recession so I know first-hand the sadness and despair that comes with that.

  • #74861
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Charlie

    I gather you are referring to my comment made on the ‘freefall’ thread.

    No

    The guys who have sold on our development recently have sold at a profit on what they paid whether this was large after lawyers fees, agents fees and the cost of money who knows. As for mortgages with no LFO again i hear of people getting them from some banks yet other banks refusing. Many who buy second homes seem to have gone down the route of asset release from thier UK property. Of course no one will care as long as they remain able to pay negative equity or not.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #74862
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    oops! 😉

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