senorio De Roda – legal advise HELP!

LoadingFavourite

This topic contains 45 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 10 years, 2 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #52089
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant


    Hi all this is a general “cry for help and advise” for anyone reading these postings that is in the legal proffesion and has grood knowledge of the Spanish law.

    This is in relation to certain issues with this particualr development at Senorio De Roda and the builder Peinsa.

    We have purchased a property (completed) in February, it’s late build it should have been ready May 2005. The builder has now stuck another block of apartments where our pool should have been and also charging us for parking spaces that we thought were included as they are on the plans along with green areas which the builder says we have to purchase ourselves as a community. The pool is not big enough for the 3 apartment blocks that will be using it. We have also learnt that the builder Peinsa are under investigation for building properties on land that building permission has not been given (hence the delays in completion) how much of that information is true I am unsure of.
    We now, as a community want to pursue this as a legal matter but don’t have a clue where to start any ideas?

  • #64446
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Do you mean a) the construction was completed in February, or b) you completed on your contract in February?

    If you mean a) – do you have a Bank Guarantee?

    Barbara

  • #64447
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We completed our purchase in Feb, the whole apartment block for phase 1 apartments are completed likewise for phase 2.
    Phase 3 apartments (where the pool should have been) are still under construction they are not on any of the original plans.
    I don’t think we had a bank guarantee but I will check.

  • #64450
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    The local consumer office could be your first call (take someone who speaks spanish with you) Not sure where this development is but there are some recommended lawyers on this site from all areas.

    Read all Charlie’s (Barbara) posts. She and a group of others successfully won a case against a developer and i’m sure joint action is the cheapest and strongest way to go. If you PM her, sure she would point you on the best way to start (or Claire).

    It sounds as though the third block they have added later could be illegal, best to act quickly before people actually complete and then it could possibly be demolished.

  • #64451
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Please check out http://www.buyingmoroccanproperty.com, go to forum, click on buying & selling property and check out ” tangeih beach dangerours investment”

    You will see a company mentioned PROINSA, I know there is a slight difference in spelling of the company that you had mentioned.

    I wonder if this was a keyboard error. However the names seams to be of the same protaganist

  • #64452
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for the info checked out your link, I think the two names are not related in anyway thank God!

  • #64453
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Katy gives excellent advice to start off with the consumer’s office (why didn’t I think of that ๐Ÿ™„ ) – there you will get advice on your basic legal rights of where you stand with this developer.

    The name of the office is OMIC – see previous thread further down page 1 of General Forum “Who is lady Sra. Bueno….”.
    If you are not in the Marbella area, you will need to find out the appropriate Head of Dept. for Housing and Construction at your local OMIC office.

    I also agree with Katy that this third block could be illegal. Am nearly sure in Spanish law that what is advertised constitutes a contract (i.e. the brochure on the development, the model of the development in the agent’s office if there was one etc.) is binding – and if the developer later deviates (in your case, Big Time!) he is legally in trouble. I suppose possibly it is a bit like our Trade Description Act?

    But you and your group really need expert independent legal advice with a good lawyer that is in no way biased towards the developer.

    Certainly, if your group can find a lawyer with whom you can all share the costs, it certainly makes sense.
    Kick off with OMIC first, and go from there. Will send you a pm.

    Barbara

  • #64477
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The OMIC office it is then!

    The problem we are experiencing at the moment is with lack of communication with other apartment owners trying to get everyone together, but we are getting there slowly but surely.

    Does anyone know do I have to obtain the form of complaint from the builder and take it to the OMIC or do I obtain the form from the OMIC ?
    I am getting conflicted answers and getting increasingly confused!
    thanks ,

    Amanda

  • #64547
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Does anyone know do I have to obtain the form of complaint from the builder and take it to the OMIC or do I obtain the form from the OMIC ?
    I am getting conflicted answers and getting increasingly confused!
    thanks ,

    Amanda

  • #64548
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Amanda – don’t know if you’ve already found it but does this previous post help you?
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=835

  • #64567
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I hadn’t seen that link thank you ๐Ÿ˜€

  • #64615
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi all, we purchased a first floor apartment on P3 in April and were told completion would be Jan/Feb 07.
    We insisted on a BG which we now have for our deposit. I was shocked to read there may be planning issues. Has this been confirmed and If so what do we do about it? From other contacts I have, it looks as though completion is going to be before Jan 07, could it be they are pushing it through so owners can complete early before the planning permission becomes a seroius issue, very worried now, if we need to, can anyone advise how we action the BG. โ“ โ“
    Thinking back, I am pretty sure that P3 was not shown on the site office models! ๐Ÿ˜•

  • #64789
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Ian
    Don’t worry re. the protection of your money, because at least you have a Bank Guarantee.

    If there is a ‘planning issue’ – possibly because this 3rd phase is not on the original building licence, or was granted later through the back door before the corruption thing blew – you are not legally obliged to ever complete without the Licence of First Occupation.
    And this will never be issued by the Town Hall if there is an ‘illegality’.

    So the worst scenario, if this phase 3 gets ‘stopped’ – you can enforce your Bank Guarantee. This is a lawyer’s procedure where they simply claim on the BG via a ‘registered’ fax to the bank. However, if you want to do this before the enforcement date on the BG, the bank could resist and then you would need to go to court, like we did.
    It is not a big deal, but you have to weigh up the time it takes to go to court compared to the time you would have to wait for the BG enforcement date to come round.

    If you have a good lawyer, he should be able to check the current status of your building licence with the Town Hall. Ask him to make enquiries.

    But your Bank Guarantee is your security – and your story is an excellent example to others as to why obtaining a Bank Guarantee (your legal right) is absolutely essential when purchasing a property in Spain – whatever the situation.

    Barbara

  • #64634
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Ian
    Don’t worry re. the protection of your money, because at least you have a Bank Guarantee.

    If there is a ‘planning issue’ – possibly because this 3rd phase is not on the original building licence, or was granted later through the back door before the corruption thing blew – you are not legally obliged to ever complete without the Licence of First Occupation.
    And this will never be issued by the Town Hall if there is an ‘illegality’.

    So the worst scenario, if this phase 3 gets ‘stopped’ – you can enforce your Bank Guarantee. This is a lawyer’s procedure where they simply claim on the BG via a ‘registered’ fax to the bank. However, if you want to do this before the enforcement date on the BG, the bank could resist and then you would need to go to court, like we did.
    It is not a big deal, but you have to weigh up the time it takes to go to court compared to the time you would have to wait for the BG enforcement date to come round.

    If you have a good lawyer, he should be able to check the current status of your building licence with the Town Hall. Ask him to make enquiries.

    But your Bank Guarantee is your security – and your story is an excellent example to others as to why obtaining a Bank Guarantee (your legal right) is absolutely essential when purchasing a property in Spain – whatever the situation.

    Barbara

  • #64839
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Does any one know what the position is if the guarantees have expired

    Or if we have never had how easy is it to get developer to give

  • #64659
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Does any one know what the position is if the guarantees have expired

    Or if we have never had how easy is it to get developer to give

  • #64841
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Karen

    before you do anything else, call your lawyer tomorrow and ask him for a copy of the BG (albeit, it may be expired). Say you’d appreciate an e-mailed copy by return.

    2ndly know that a BG is really valid up until the time the property is ready to be handed over (that means of course with all legal documentation in place, incl. an LFO).

    You must ascertain what your particular position is – is there a BG, has it expired etc etc.

    By the way I am going to quote you something from your lawyers website re. ‘advice’ when you are purchasing a property. When you call him tomorrow quote his legal advice back to him!!!!!

    Buying a NEW property

    (……)
    Security of your investment

    Under Spanish law the developer is obliged to provide the purchasing party with an insurance policy or bank guarantee. This will secure that any amount handed over by the purchaser (plus legal interest), will be returned should the property not be completed when agreed.

    From May 2000 a new Building Law establishes that all developers that applied for licence after that date will also have to provide the purchaser with a ten-year guarantee duly bonded against major defects of the construction.

    These two elements make the purchase of new property very safe in Spain.

    Jorge Farrow

    JF&//38;B FARROW Y DEL BARRIO MARBELLA LAWYERS
    Tel + 34 952825598
    Fax + 34 952776857
    jfb@chipsur.com

    For those who want to see the entire blurb click on:

    http://www.merckestates.com/legal.php

    K & B

  • #64660
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Karen

    before you do anything else, call your lawyer tomorrow and ask him for a copy of the BG (albeit, it may be expired). Say you’d appreciate an e-mailed copy by return.

    2ndly know that a BG is really valid up until the time the property is ready to be handed over (that means of course with all legal documentation in place, incl. an LFO).

    You must ascertain what your particular position is – is there a BG, has it expired etc etc.

    By the way I am going to quote you something from your lawyers website re. ‘advice’ when you are purchasing a property. When you call him tomorrow quote his legal advice back to him!!!!!

    Buying a NEW property

    (……)
    Security of your investment

    Under Spanish law the developer is obliged to provide the purchasing party with an insurance policy or bank guarantee. This will secure that any amount handed over by the purchaser (plus legal interest), will be returned should the property not be completed when agreed.

    From May 2000 a new Building Law establishes that all developers that applied for licence after that date will also have to provide the purchaser with a ten-year guarantee duly bonded against major defects of the construction.

    These two elements make the purchase of new property very safe in Spain.

    Jorge Farrow

    JF&//38;B FARROW Y DEL BARRIO MARBELLA LAWYERS
    Tel + 34 952825598
    Fax + 34 952776857
    jfb@chipsur.com

    For those who want to see the entire blurb click on:

    http://www.merckestates.com/legal.php

    K & B

  • #64851
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The truth is none of us know whether planning permission has been given or not for the build of P3 its a similar set of circumstances when you speak to some of the purchasers of the town houses.
    What I do know is they have been built a block of apartments and shops on what should have been our swimming pool according to the sales staff, the plans and sales office models. ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

    I was sold a top floor apartment on P1 with a fantastic view of the Hacianda and green area with a swimming pool between 2 palm trees in front of it!

    The sales pitch we were given was, ” each palm tree was planted to represent Senior De roda’s son’s birth and they are protected they cannot be moved,” Yes thanks Rebecca from Golf Invest for that one!

    For your information they have been dug up, planted elsewhere and subsequently died in the process, my view of the fantastic Hacienda is now someone elses bedroom because you have built another block of apartments with shops on the ground floor where it should have been.

    The community pool has been stuck directly below my apartment and the noise is a nightmare. The pool is far to small to service 3 blocks of apartments, it’s overcrowded now and it’s only accommodating 2 apartment blocks at the moment can you imagine what it’s going to be like with 3 apartment blocks? it’s also very noisy for the residents of P1.

    Bearing in mind P2 and P3 have to walk across the courtyard, exit via the locked gates, cross the road, access their community area and then in to their accommodation to use the toilet facilities I don’t think that is exactly fair and isn’t likely lets face it! the pool will come in useful for something other than swimming in.

    This is because Peinsa haven’t provided any lavatory facilities around the pool area I think that Hygiene is going to be an issue as well as security!

    P3 is built, I feel it’s one of those things however, I personally want some form of compensation for my ‘miss sale” and another pool building to prevent the overcrowding, security issues and noise reduction at P1.

    I can understand the purchasers of P3 being worried I would be concerned as well but, it maybe permission was been given to build they just mis-sold apartments to owners of P1 and P2?

    I am really disappointed with what has happened and I will certainly be visiting the OMIC when I go back, we have appointed a President I hope he can get some answers from the builder on the above.

    Amanda ๐Ÿ˜ฅ

  • #64665
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The truth is none of us know whether planning permission has been given or not for the build of P3 its a similar set of circumstances when you speak to some of the purchasers of the town houses.
    What I do know is they have been built a block of apartments and shops on what should have been our swimming pool according to the sales staff, the plans and sales office models. ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

    I was sold a top floor apartment on P1 with a fantastic view of the Hacianda and green area with a swimming pool between 2 palm trees in front of it!

    The sales pitch we were given was, ” each palm tree was planted to represent Senior De roda’s son’s birth and they are protected they cannot be moved,” Yes thanks Rebecca from Golf Invest for that one!

    For your information they have been dug up, planted elsewhere and subsequently died in the process, my view of the fantastic Hacienda is now someone elses bedroom because you have built another block of apartments with shops on the ground floor where it should have been.

    The community pool has been stuck directly below my apartment and the noise is a nightmare. The pool is far to small to service 3 blocks of apartments, it’s overcrowded now and it’s only accommodating 2 apartment blocks at the moment can you imagine what it’s going to be like with 3 apartment blocks? it’s also very noisy for the residents of P1.

    Bearing in mind P2 and P3 have to walk across the courtyard, exit via the locked gates, cross the road, access their community area and then in to their accommodation to use the toilet facilities I don’t think that is exactly fair and isn’t likely lets face it! the pool will come in useful for something other than swimming in.

    This is because Peinsa haven’t provided any lavatory facilities around the pool area I think that Hygiene is going to be an issue as well as security!

    P3 is built, I feel it’s one of those things however, I personally want some form of compensation for my ‘miss sale” and another pool building to prevent the overcrowding, security issues and noise reduction at P1.

    I can understand the purchasers of P3 being worried I would be concerned as well but, it maybe permission was been given to build they just mis-sold apartments to owners of P1 and P2?

    I am really disappointed with what has happened and I will certainly be visiting the OMIC when I go back, we have appointed a President I hope he can get some answers from the builder on the above.

    Amanda ๐Ÿ˜ฅ

  • #64857
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Amanda

    Understand your feelings, however, many other people have purchased here and scare mongering because you are ticked off does not help anyone. Had I bought on P1 or P2 I would also be angry. You need to be sure of your facts before you start publishing items advising of investigations relating to planning permissions etc. After reading your note on the other site, I have spent the last 3 days in panic calling people in spain to find out the situation. What a waste of time and money! give us the facts or give us nothing. My advise to you is, if you were miss sold, take legal action, if you were not and did not do the required checks, sell up and move on. This reply is probalbly going to upset alot of people but, please give us a break with the complaints about the pool etc. Does anyone have any good reports or is this site just for people who have got what they paid for, did not research what they were buying and are now ticked off!!!!!!!!!!

    Post Script

    I agree there is a problem with the pool, suggestion for you all, Why do we not all come together to see if we can get Peinsa and local town hall to allow us to put a large pool on the area behind P2 that i belive has now been landscaped. This would be great for all of us. If there is a planning issue and building work is stopped on P3, P1 and P2 wil have an unfinished building in front of them. This could drag on for years! Please also remember, the shops etc are going under P3 so if all is stopped, you will be isolated with now facilities!! Can we join forces and resolve the issue now. We are moving out in Feb 07 to live here, we are more than happy to represent other owners with this issue, let me know

    King regards

    Ian

  • #64668
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Amanda

    Understand your feelings, however, many other people have purchased here and scare mongering because you are ticked off does not help anyone. Had I bought on P1 or P2 I would also be angry. You need to be sure of your facts before you start publishing items advising of investigations relating to planning permissions etc. After reading your note on the other site, I have spent the last 3 days in panic calling people in spain to find out the situation. What a waste of time and money! give us the facts or give us nothing. My advise to you is, if you were miss sold, take legal action, if you were not and did not do the required checks, sell up and move on. This reply is probalbly going to upset alot of people but, please give us a break with the complaints about the pool etc. Does anyone have any good reports or is this site just for people who have got what they paid for, did not research what they were buying and are now ticked off!!!!!!!!!!

    Post Script

    I agree there is a problem with the pool, suggestion for you all, Why do we not all come together to see if we can get Peinsa and local town hall to allow us to put a large pool on the area behind P2 that i belive has now been landscaped. This would be great for all of us. If there is a planning issue and building work is stopped on P3, P1 and P2 wil have an unfinished building in front of them. This could drag on for years! Please also remember, the shops etc are going under P3 so if all is stopped, you will be isolated with now facilities!! Can we join forces and resolve the issue now. We are moving out in Feb 07 to live here, we are more than happy to represent other owners with this issue, let me know

    King regards

    Ian

  • #64859
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ian,

    this is not my intention at all, the information been passed to myself and others by numourous sources and I am unsure of the facts, I have been unable to get any real answers. I hope they are wrong, but the way they do thing in Spain is totally different than England, I am not publishing any facts about the building permission for P3 indeed the opposite I am trying to find out what they, are isn’t this what the forum is for?

    As for legal advise and help if you read the hundreds of threads the only way forward is to stick together in such cases 1 lawyer against a builder doesnt stand a chance. The only real fact I have is about the unplanned build, how we were mis’sold and the pool situation as for research we did plenty found the area to be fantastic which it is, however you can’t research being shafted by the builder!

  • #64669
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ian,

    this is not my intention at all, the information been passed to myself and others by numourous sources and I am unsure of the facts, I have been unable to get any real answers. I hope they are wrong, but the way they do thing in Spain is totally different than England, I am not publishing any facts about the building permission for P3 indeed the opposite I am trying to find out what they, are isn’t this what the forum is for?

    As for legal advise and help if you read the hundreds of threads the only way forward is to stick together in such cases 1 lawyer against a builder doesnt stand a chance. The only real fact I have is about the unplanned build, how we were mis’sold and the pool situation as for research we did plenty found the area to be fantastic which it is, however you can’t research being shafted by the builder!

  • #64861
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ian, just to add to amanda, the pool in P1’s private courtyard is less than double it’s originally specified size, and is now supposed to accommodate more than double the number of people, with the ensuing total loss of privacy and security for the block, (something that p2 and p3 will still have ). As for the possibility of building on landscaped land at the back of p2, there isn’t any, P2 is completely surrounded by roads. The land to the rear of the P1 and in front of the first row of urbina’s is now flattened and is earmarked as a communal area for the whole of Roda not the apartments.
    I wonder if you could tell me how you were sold your apartment? were you told that the obviously enclosed pool in the P1 block was a community pool? if so, did you ever query why it was so obviously in a private area?
    We were all given sketch plans when we agreed our purchases, they have no mention of your block on them, neither did any site plan in the sales office. As far as I am aware, buyers of P1 and P2 knew nothing of P3 until they starting asking why their completion dates were being delayed week on week extending into months- we all did our homework and appear to have been totally stuffed by agents, solicitors and developers – its hard to be level headed when it looks like a done deal.

  • #64670
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ian, just to add to amanda, the pool in P1’s private courtyard is less than double it’s originally specified size, and is now supposed to accommodate more than double the number of people, with the ensuing total loss of privacy and security for the block, (something that p2 and p3 will still have ). As for the possibility of building on landscaped land at the back of p2, there isn’t any, P2 is completely surrounded by roads. The land to the rear of the P1 and in front of the first row of urbina’s is now flattened and is earmarked as a communal area for the whole of Roda not the apartments.
    I wonder if you could tell me how you were sold your apartment? were you told that the obviously enclosed pool in the P1 block was a community pool? if so, did you ever query why it was so obviously in a private area?
    We were all given sketch plans when we agreed our purchases, they have no mention of your block on them, neither did any site plan in the sales office. As far as I am aware, buyers of P1 and P2 knew nothing of P3 until they starting asking why their completion dates were being delayed week on week extending into months- we all did our homework and appear to have been totally stuffed by agents, solicitors and developers – its hard to be level headed when it looks like a done deal.

  • #64863
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ian what I actually posted was:

    “We have also learnt that the builder Peinsa are under investigation for building properties on land that building permission has not been given (hence the delays in completion)”

    Maybe I should have wrote ” we have read” rather than learnt but it amounts to the same thing.

    I would like to add that I never mentioned the build of P3 being under investigation it was your assumption on that matter and if anyone is scaremongering who posted the misread information on eyeonspain website for everyone else to read?
    To my knowledge P3 isn’t delayed and I mentioned (hence delays in completion) this would not refer to P3 as the build isn’t delayed?

    Your posting on eyeonspain reads:

    Posted by Ijk Send private message Friday, August 11, 2006

    Hi all

    I have just read on another site that Peinsa are under investigation for building on land without planning permission. The building in question is P3 where we purchased our apartment in April. Does any know any more about this?

    I never mentioned P3 being investigated!

    You need to be sure of your facts before you start publishing items advising of investigations relating to planning permissions etc. After reading your note on the other site, I have spent the last 3 days in panic calling people in spain to find out the situation. What a waste of time and money! give us the facts or give us nothing. My advise to you is, if you were miss sold, take legal action, if you were not and did not do the required checks, sell up and move on.

    1) I never published the information you came to the assumption and published it yourself on here and on eyeonspain.
    (you could have PM’d me for further information)

    2) I have been mis-sold and I am seeking legal advise.
    hence the title of this forum!

    3) I did the required checks and P3 is not on the original plans.

    4) What checks have you done when you parted with you deposit ?
    obviously not the checks you think you should have done or else
    you wouldn’t be as worried!

    I will not get in to an internet argument on this matter and will not respond to any further comments, I would however, like to thank everyone that has been helpful and given me and others sound advise.

    Amanda[/quote]

  • #64671
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ian what I actually posted was:

    “We have also learnt that the builder Peinsa are under investigation for building properties on land that building permission has not been given (hence the delays in completion)”

    Maybe I should have wrote ” we have read” rather than learnt but it amounts to the same thing.

    I would like to add that I never mentioned the build of P3 being under investigation it was your assumption on that matter and if anyone is scaremongering who posted the misread information on eyeonspain website for everyone else to read?
    To my knowledge P3 isn’t delayed and I mentioned (hence delays in completion) this would not refer to P3 as the build isn’t delayed?

    Your posting on eyeonspain reads:

    Posted by Ijk Send private message Friday, August 11, 2006

    Hi all

    I have just read on another site that Peinsa are under investigation for building on land without planning permission. The building in question is P3 where we purchased our apartment in April. Does any know any more about this?

    I never mentioned P3 being investigated!

    You need to be sure of your facts before you start publishing items advising of investigations relating to planning permissions etc. After reading your note on the other site, I have spent the last 3 days in panic calling people in spain to find out the situation. What a waste of time and money! give us the facts or give us nothing. My advise to you is, if you were miss sold, take legal action, if you were not and did not do the required checks, sell up and move on.

    1) I never published the information you came to the assumption and published it yourself on here and on eyeonspain.
    (you could have PM’d me for further information)

    2) I have been mis-sold and I am seeking legal advise.
    hence the title of this forum!

    3) I did the required checks and P3 is not on the original plans.

    4) What checks have you done when you parted with you deposit ?
    obviously not the checks you think you should have done or else
    you wouldn’t be as worried!

    I will not get in to an internet argument on this matter and will not respond to any further comments, I would however, like to thank everyone that has been helpful and given me and others sound advise.

    Amanda[/quote]

  • #64869
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    interesting to see the solicitor is on the same same web site as the agant who originally sold us property

    Juilan Merc the estate agent has left previous co and set up on his own!!

    Good advise on BGs will get copies asap

    Hope this helps others always see bank guarantees – dont just beleive in place

  • #64674
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    interesting to see the solicitor is on the same same web site as the agant who originally sold us property

    Juilan Merc the estate agent has left previous co and set up on his own!!

    Good advise on BGs will get copies asap

    Hope this helps others always see bank guarantees – dont just beleive in place

  • #64873
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    ………Am nearly sure in Spanish law that what is advertised constitutes a contract (i.e. the brochure on the development, the model of the development in the agent’s office if there was one etc.) is binding – and if the developer later deviates (in your case, Big Time!) he is legally in trouble. I suppose possibly it is a bit like our Trade Description Act?

    Barbara

    Amanda, am just reviving above something I wrote earlier on this thread in the hope that the likes of Drakan or Cesar who contribute on this forum could give their professional legal opinion on this. Because it could be the whole crux of this situation.

    In all honesty, I find Ian’s comment of you ‘scaremongering’ because you are ‘ticked off’ rather ridiculous in the circumstances. You have invested a huge amount of money in a property based on, amongst other things, lovely views – now only to find out the lovely view is another apartment block. If I were in your shoes, feeling ‘ticked off’ wouldn’t be the way I would describe my feelings.
    Like your development, ours totally changed from the original concept as per the model in the office and brochure – and will be a great ‘bone of contention’ in a pending court case for damages, having already enforced our Bank Guarantee and had our money back.
    Like us, you paid your money for something, and are getting something else.

    My advice would be that you have to clarify the exact details of the permissions on the original building licence, and to ascertain whether this phase 3 has any legal building licence to be built at all. Whether it be on the original licence, or on a separate newer one.
    Would love to know your lawyer’s stance on this – is he co-operating with finding out this type of information or is he giving you the run-around?

    And Ian – in our area, two illegal developments (complete with tennants!) have just been ’emptied’ and taped off by the police. So don’t think it can’t happen to you. If this phase 3 does turn out to be illegal, surely it is better to find out now (and not later down the line), rather than just get ‘pissy’ with Amanda? By your attitude, it almost sounds as if you are taking out your frustration on her. I think she has enough stress without you piling it on.
    To quote you – “this reply is probably going to upset a lot of people…” – in this case, you. But there you go, when you start something.
    This forum is for everyone, to voice concerns, to dig for information, and to (hopefully) get advice/knowledge. I’m afraid ‘scaremongering’ is really the wrong word.

    Amanda, am going to pm you as to the route we took, and who to approach to learn this information.

    Barbara

  • #64676
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    ………Am nearly sure in Spanish law that what is advertised constitutes a contract (i.e. the brochure on the development, the model of the development in the agent’s office if there was one etc.) is binding – and if the developer later deviates (in your case, Big Time!) he is legally in trouble. I suppose possibly it is a bit like our Trade Description Act?

    Barbara

    Amanda, am just reviving above something I wrote earlier on this thread in the hope that the likes of Drakan or Cesar who contribute on this forum could give their professional legal opinion on this. Because it could be the whole crux of this situation.

    In all honesty, I find Ian’s comment of you ‘scaremongering’ because you are ‘ticked off’ rather ridiculous in the circumstances. You have invested a huge amount of money in a property based on, amongst other things, lovely views – now only to find out the lovely view is another apartment block. If I were in your shoes, feeling ‘ticked off’ wouldn’t be the way I would describe my feelings.
    Like your development, ours totally changed from the original concept as per the model in the office and brochure – and will be a great ‘bone of contention’ in a pending court case for damages, having already enforced our Bank Guarantee and had our money back.
    Like us, you paid your money for something, and are getting something else.

    My advice would be that you have to clarify the exact details of the permissions on the original building licence, and to ascertain whether this phase 3 has any legal building licence to be built at all. Whether it be on the original licence, or on a separate newer one.
    Would love to know your lawyer’s stance on this – is he co-operating with finding out this type of information or is he giving you the run-around?

    And Ian – in our area, two illegal developments (complete with tennants!) have just been ’emptied’ and taped off by the police. So don’t think it can’t happen to you. If this phase 3 does turn out to be illegal, surely it is better to find out now (and not later down the line), rather than just get ‘pissy’ with Amanda? By your attitude, it almost sounds as if you are taking out your frustration on her. I think she has enough stress without you piling it on.
    To quote you – “this reply is probably going to upset a lot of people…” – in this case, you. But there you go, when you start something.
    This forum is for everyone, to voice concerns, to dig for information, and to (hopefully) get advice/knowledge. I’m afraid ‘scaremongering’ is really the wrong word.

    Amanda, am going to pm you as to the route we took, and who to approach to learn this information.

    Barbara

  • #64875
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Firstly I would like to apologise to Amanada

    I did not mean to take my frustation out on you, I have read so many horror stories and am starting to wonder weather a new life in spain is to correct thing to do. I also did as you state assume you were refering to P3 as this is the only phase still under construction.

    I did request a copy of the building permission before I paid a deposit and a BG. I did receive both of these documents.

    If anyone would like a copy of the building licence please send me a PM and I will e-mail you a copy.

    Once again, sorry Amanda

  • #64677
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Firstly I would like to apologise to Amanada

    I did not mean to take my frustation out on you, I have read so many horror stories and am starting to wonder weather a new life in spain is to correct thing to do. I also did as you state assume you were refering to P3 as this is the only phase still under construction.

    I did request a copy of the building permission before I paid a deposit and a BG. I did receive both of these documents.

    If anyone would like a copy of the building licence please send me a PM and I will e-mail you a copy.

    Once again, sorry Amanda

  • #64879
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ian Knibbs wrote:

    Amanda

    My advise to you is, if you were miss sold, take legal action, if you were not and did not do the required checks, sell up and move on.
    Ian

    Out of interest, Ian – when you received this copy of the building permission, did you do the ‘required check’ of making sure this permission was in accordance with the PGOU plan.

    The whole basis of all the current scandal going on at present on the Costa del Sol (with all the arrests) is that many building licences were illegally issued by corrupt officials. With regards to the area of your development (I gather it is in San Javier in the province of Murcia?) I have been told by someone who lives there that has been a lot of corruption there as well.

    This is why a building licence is not worth the paper it is written on if it has not been checked that it complies with the PGOU plan.

    Barbara

  • #64679
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ian Knibbs wrote:

    Amanda

    My advise to you is, if you were miss sold, take legal action, if you were not and did not do the required checks, sell up and move on.
    Ian

    Out of interest, Ian – when you received this copy of the building permission, did you do the ‘required check’ of making sure this permission was in accordance with the PGOU plan.

    The whole basis of all the current scandal going on at present on the Costa del Sol (with all the arrests) is that many building licences were illegally issued by corrupt officials. With regards to the area of your development (I gather it is in San Javier in the province of Murcia?) I have been told by someone who lives there that has been a lot of corruption there as well.

    This is why a building licence is not worth the paper it is written on if it has not been checked that it complies with the PGOU plan.

    Barbara

  • #64881
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    this is my point of concern as well, that the piece of paper with ‘official’ looking licence numbers on it, which my agent told me was the correct documentation for building approval turns out to be “NOT”.

    i am on the same development at Roda as Angela, however, i have a townhouse. the thing is, they licence was not valid, they had outline permission only and not full detailed licences.

    its easy in hindsight to say ‘check things out’ but where do you start ?
    it has taken me months to even find this website ! let alone try and track down official documentation in Spain when you are needing to catch the next flight home and they want you to sign a contract.

    as for views being lost, well although their is agricultural land around the developement they at least were honest in saying they couldnt guarantee what would be built on that by other people in the future, but Angelas claim is valid as that building is within the environs of the development and so under the builders control.

    had i known that the licence I was shown/given was for “outline” permission only then i would not have put a penny down but would have walked. I am really annoyed at the agent as they made a big play on the licence issue saying that Roda was a kosher development and they mentioned others which were not. it was a very important aspect of my decision to buy at Roda as I wanted the security of knowing that the building was legal.

    Mark

  • #64681
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    this is my point of concern as well, that the piece of paper with ‘official’ looking licence numbers on it, which my agent told me was the correct documentation for building approval turns out to be “NOT”.

    i am on the same development at Roda as Angela, however, i have a townhouse. the thing is, they licence was not valid, they had outline permission only and not full detailed licences.

    its easy in hindsight to say ‘check things out’ but where do you start ?
    it has taken me months to even find this website ! let alone try and track down official documentation in Spain when you are needing to catch the next flight home and they want you to sign a contract.

    as for views being lost, well although their is agricultural land around the developement they at least were honest in saying they couldnt guarantee what would be built on that by other people in the future, but Angelas claim is valid as that building is within the environs of the development and so under the builders control.

    had i known that the licence I was shown/given was for “outline” permission only then i would not have put a penny down but would have walked. I am really annoyed at the agent as they made a big play on the licence issue saying that Roda was a kosher development and they mentioned others which were not. it was a very important aspect of my decision to buy at Roda as I wanted the security of knowing that the building was legal.

    Mark

  • #64883
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Mark

    Unfortunately there is a common theme running through most of the posts on this forum – not only just this thread.

    And that is:

    “What is going on with all these lawyers???” โ“ โ“

    I personally think that besides all these investigations going on re. corrupt developers and council members, coming down the line should be investigations into ‘corrupt’ lawyers who accept a ‘financial incentive’ (polite speak for a backhander) to allow clients to sign up to an illegal development.

    Before any lawyers jump down my throat – am sorry, but I believe it is their job to make sure the contract their client is signing is for a legal development, with a legal licence complying with the PGOU plan etc., and that when the time comes for completing – a LFO is in place (not just by Administrative Silence).

    And when trouble finally ‘hits the fan’ it is not good enough just to start ignoring worried telephone calls and e-mails from their clients.
    I write the above personally having a file full of stories from people in just these circumstances.

    In my opinion, these lawyers (including our original lawyer) need naming, shaming and dis-barring.

    I hope, Mark, your lawyer does not fall in this category, and is giving good reasons for allowing you to sign this contract, and is now giving you all the legal help to answer your questions.

    Barbara

  • #64683
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Mark

    Unfortunately there is a common theme running through most of the posts on this forum – not only just this thread.

    And that is:

    “What is going on with all these lawyers???” โ“ โ“

    I personally think that besides all these investigations going on re. corrupt developers and council members, coming down the line should be investigations into ‘corrupt’ lawyers who accept a ‘financial incentive’ (polite speak for a backhander) to allow clients to sign up to an illegal development.

    Before any lawyers jump down my throat – am sorry, but I believe it is their job to make sure the contract their client is signing is for a legal development, with a legal licence complying with the PGOU plan etc., and that when the time comes for completing – a LFO is in place (not just by Administrative Silence).

    And when trouble finally ‘hits the fan’ it is not good enough just to start ignoring worried telephone calls and e-mails from their clients.
    I write the above personally having a file full of stories from people in just these circumstances.

    In my opinion, these lawyers (including our original lawyer) need naming, shaming and dis-barring.

    I hope, Mark, your lawyer does not fall in this category, and is giving good reasons for allowing you to sign this contract, and is now giving you all the legal help to answer your questions.

    Barbara

  • #64884
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Exactly! Lawyers seem to be one of the weakest links in the buying chain. Its a pity some sort of dossier can’t be compiled and sent to the Junta, other politicians and of course the colegio de abogados. If I were an honest Lawyer here I would be concerned enough to report a lot of these incidences.

  • #64684
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Exactly! Lawyers seem to be one of the weakest links in the buying chain. Its a pity some sort of dossier can’t be compiled and sent to the Junta, other politicians and of course the colegio de abogados. If I were an honest Lawyer here I would be concerned enough to report a lot of these incidences.

  • #64904
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    To Barbara

    thank you again for your pm’s/replies on the forum you are very helpful with theses matters and you are appreciated by many readers keep up the good work!

    Our development is Senurio De Roda near Los Alcazares, St Javier murcia province.

    The area is beautiful just what we wanted and the apartments themselves are fantastic however, it’s the communal areas, and change of plans that are letting the development down.

    Peinsa, the developer, have done a lovley job on the townhouses by making them very pretty typically spanish style but, the apartments haven’t been given the same attention and its a shame.
    Some of the town house owners are experiencing problems with registration and therefore suffering lengthly delays.

    Ian, thank you for your apologie, we have all been on the receiving end of frustrations whilst purchasing a property in Spain, I just hope you realise we are singing from the same hym sheet, we will all be one community and we all want P3 finished to a high standard as promised along with P1 & p2.
    We all want the best facilities possible, for our community that we can possibly squeeze out of Peinsa.

    I totally agree with you, the shops are a good thing We just wish we had known about their positioning and the shared pool before we signed.
    If we, P1/P2 and P3 stick together we will have a great community and hopefully achieve some form of compensation in the form of another pool from the builder.

    I hope everything goes ok with your build/completion and look forward to meeting you at a community meeting or the community centre for a vino or 2 ๐Ÿ˜†

    regards

    Amanda

  • #64704
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    To Barbara

    thank you again for your pm’s/replies on the forum you are very helpful with theses matters and you are appreciated by many readers keep up the good work!

    Our development is Senurio De Roda near Los Alcazares, St Javier murcia province.

    The area is beautiful just what we wanted and the apartments themselves are fantastic however, it’s the communal areas, and change of plans that are letting the development down.

    Peinsa, the developer, have done a lovley job on the townhouses by making them very pretty typically spanish style but, the apartments haven’t been given the same attention and its a shame.
    Some of the town house owners are experiencing problems with registration and therefore suffering lengthly delays.

    Ian, thank you for your apologie, we have all been on the receiving end of frustrations whilst purchasing a property in Spain, I just hope you realise we are singing from the same hym sheet, we will all be one community and we all want P3 finished to a high standard as promised along with P1 & p2.
    We all want the best facilities possible, for our community that we can possibly squeeze out of Peinsa.

    I totally agree with you, the shops are a good thing We just wish we had known about their positioning and the shared pool before we signed.
    If we, P1/P2 and P3 stick together we will have a great community and hopefully achieve some form of compensation in the form of another pool from the builder.

    I hope everything goes ok with your build/completion and look forward to meeting you at a community meeting or the community centre for a vino or 2 ๐Ÿ˜†

    regards

    Amanda

  • #65121
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s not all doom and gloom it seems!
    just read recent posting on holidayforums.co.uk site and it seems some of the long awaited registration paperwork for the townhouses maybe coming through ! ๐Ÿ˜›

    Amanda

  • #66145
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Can some one please confirm that the champion, Senora office deals with complaints in respect of poor/incompetant management agents i.e The Administrators of a block of flats,

    If she does not than is there another office who deals with it.

    MAny thanks

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.