Ryanair pulls nine aircraft from Alicante

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This topic contains 38 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 5 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #56168
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    Anonymous
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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/8431065/Ryanair-pulls-nine-aircraft-from-Alicante-after-row.html

    I believe I’m starting to see a pattern with Ryanair. They kick up a big fuss about any dispute then take their toys away very publicly. A few months later they almost invariably go back and start running the services again.

    Last autumn they had a major bust up with the French authorities of where their employees should pay tax. Once they lost the court case they pulled almost all their flights from Marseille in early January. They were back in operation two months later.

  • #103742
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    Anonymous
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    They may be good for us as customers but they are horrible to deal with. I have seen countless times how they force small regional goverments and airports to give them huge monetary benefits. This is how they operate in Sweden.

    This is how it usually starts. They say big airports are to expensive but it has more to do with them not being able to push those around. They target small airports or cities that they want to fly from with no airports. It helps if the region is poor but around other populated areas. They sign a binding agreement with the partner which lets them off scotch free if anything doesn’t go their way during the process. By drumming up popular demand in the press that it will bring so and so many jobs to the area and lobbying towards the politicians. They then force the goverment to give them lots of other benefits otherwise… refurbishing the airpot etc. Then everything works out for a while but as soon as Ryanair wants something they know everyone except them have invested to much into the whole deal. The tax money is allready invested so the goverment will throw even more on the fire. The airport has invested to much so they will go bust.

    Ryanair are shrewd at doing business but I can’t see why anyone are suprised by it.

  • #103746
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    Anonymous
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    While I am no fan of no frill airlines in fact I have taken them to Court’s. They are a business & like all businesses try & get the best deal.

    Being shrewd is one thing & being immoral is another. I am not here to pass judgement it just a commercial fact that I am highlighting.

  • #103876
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    As a customer of Ryanair, Im not their biggest fan – but their prices are their salvation. From a business perspective however I can only admire them in the way they make solid profits in a very very competitive arena. The alicante episode should be applauded. I saw in a report that an Alicante official was sayiong the dispute ‘wasnt about a lot of money’ (30 cents extra per passenger). if thats the case then why dont the airport forget the money and keep Ryanair sweet?
    Their tactics of ‘luring’ small airports to work with them is both valid and business-like and if they become the stronger party (there is always one stronger party) then good luck to them. The power they exert id perfectly acceptable in free-enterprise and the airports and regional tourist offices should wake up and accept this.

  • #103878
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    Anonymous
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    Rialto; As you said 0.30 cents per passenger is not a lot of money. Sadly this is typical of Spanish business practise when it is their favour. Ryanair viciously cut cost in all area of their operations.

    Whilst the ryanair has one income stream from their passengers. The airport has many airlines, rent from resturants, shops, parking etc that contribute to their income stream..

  • #103879
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
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    Many people in northern Europe, particularly UK and Ireland invested in second homes on the strength that Ryanair would provide cheap transport to their chosen destinations.
    They are now cutting back, especially their winter schedules all over Spain and it has already made a difference.
    I think these arguments O’Leary comes up with are smoke screens for a simple problem, the oil price and lack of customer demand.

  • #103881
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Probably a case of not enough bums on seats.

  • #103882
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    The EU has just begun an investigation into startup funding given to airlines, on the premise that its illegal state aid.
    Ryanair’s little scam will be eliminated.

    Ryanair’s future is looking far more uncertain on the aircraft buying front. They ‘raped’ (MOL exact term) Boeing on the purchase of their 737’s after 2001. Since then they have been using the aircraft for a couple of years and selling them on at a profit without doing maintenance, so screwing over A & B existing customers as they have higher costs. Now its time to buy more aircraft and Airbus and Boeing are playing very hard ball. No discounts (there is now many years waiting list).

    Without free aircraft, no maintenance costs and illegal subsidies, Ryanair will have to start acting like a normal airline and I’m sure a lot of their customers will take great pleasure flying with someone else.

  • #103883
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Their customer has a choice. No one is forcing them apart from the market and in some cases where the passenger’s find flying to obsure airport suits them.

  • #103885
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Bookings down for Easter UK to Spain. I thought O’Leary’s disputes were a PR exercise to cover up the airlines falling demand.
    Now we all know the truth. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1376394/Counting-Costas-More-Britons-camp-home-fly-Spain-Easter.html
    I regard the Mail as a little toxic but it has the ring of truth. Have you ever been to UK recently on holiday? There’s no room to breath.

  • #103886
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ryanair wont make any business move, either way, unless it protects their bottom line. They are to be applauded on the fact that for instance ive just booked 2 return flights to Malaga for £83 return (thats for 2 people!). I dont know how they do it – it works out at about 1200 miles x 2 people x there and back – approx 5000 miles for £83! Admittedly no large bags/paid by prepaid mastercard etc.

    Whilst I hate their arrogance and attitude, no one can deny they are masters of cost control – and thats why telling Alicante to ‘do one or else’ should be applauded. apparently they account for 40% of Alicantes traffic now? and this will half at least now! How dumb are the Spaniards on this one? They should be embracing RA especially after investing in a bigger airport. Malaga will always be a well served route and maybe EJ or others will take up the slack. either way market forces will ensure that CDS customers will be well served.

    These are the facts behind the decrease in flights according to RA press release

    From 11 to 2 base aircraft (down 80%).
    · From 62 to 31 routes (loss of 31 routes).
    · From over 600 to less than 200 weekly flights.
    · From over 4M to fewer than 1.5M passengers p.a.
    · The loss of over 2,500 jobs at Alicante.

    Now unless we arent getting all the story here – the Spanish are being commercially suicidal! All for 30 cents per passenger!

    Investors in Bulgaria, and other similar places, who bought properties based on the notion that RA exclusivly served their region are gambling. RA will, and have, ‘pull’ any underperforming route. In Bulgaria nd many other new destinations like this, they have done so and as a result the market has been decimated. However surely the market being decimated cant be blamed on RA?

    Would you buy a cheap property in an ‘up-and-coming’ flyblown village that has never been served by a major carrier before, yet is suddenly served by RA?

  • #103887
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Spain is pricing it’s way out of the market. Their answer to falling profits is to put up prices…again.

    We have just had 9 days in St. Lucia for about the same price as Spain. Hotel room 2 metres from a fantastic beach, fridge,coffee maker and flat screen TV in room, 2 double beds. Closest equivalent in Spain, High rise hotel, 14 inch old TV. No fridge etc. 2 single beds pushed together. Flights were full, not suprised! Even golf was free, just pay for buggy.

  • #103888
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    Anonymous
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    @katy wrote:

    Spain is pricing it’s way out of the market. Their answer to falling profits is to put up prices…again.

    We have just had 9 days in St. Lucia for about the same price as Spain. Hotel room 2 metres from a fantastic beach, fridge,coffee maker and flat screen TV in room, 2 double beds. Closest equivalent in Spain, High rise hotel, 14 inch old TV. No fridge etc. 2 single beds pushed together. Flights were full, not suprised! Even golf was free, just pay for buggy.

    It seems to be the spanish way “if it isn’t broken fix it untill it is”

  • #103889
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    “These are the facts behind the decrease in flights according to RA press release “

    Lies.

    “Ryanair wont make any business move, either way, unless it protects their bottom line. They are to be applauded on the fact that for instance ive just booked 2 return flights to Malaga for £83 return (thats for 2 people!). I dont know how they do it “

    There is more to an economy that Ryanairs cheap fares. As I pointed out, their business model is coming to an end and giving them preferential and illegal treatment over other airlines is suicide, even in the medium term. The EU is going to target them to stop them offering cheap fares and all the screaming, lying and whining is the world is not going to save Ryanair’s low cost fares.

  • #103890
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    Anonymous
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  • #103891
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    Anonymous
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    Oh katy, i don’t know what hotels you stay in here in Spain. There are so many fantastic top grade hotels everywhere from Madrid, Barcelona,etc – real five star hotels and then so many new chains; eg “High tech”, Roommate, NH offering four/ five star quality for three star prices…………. you really must hate Spain!!!??


    by the way, St Lucia is poor mans caribbean; try St Barth, Barbados, Anguilla for a start ……… certainly no coffee makers around, no packages either, and no free golf eeek!! well, st barth doesn’t even have a golf course!!……………

    ps The costa del sol is heaving with tourists at the moment (just like the old days) : and all hotels are fully booked over the easter weekend!!!!!!!!!!!! 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

  • #103892
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    absolutely right peterhun.

    If we bother to look at other sources of information instead of RAs propaganda then a clearer idea of the situation arises.

    2010
    just looking at arrivals for alicante airport, the figure stands at over 4 million (only arrivals) for 2010 not including the ryan air flights. http://www.anea.es.

    If we look at the total passengers (arrival, departure, transit) then:
    In 2010, Alicante Airport handled 9,382,935 passengers, 74,474 flight operations and 3,113 tonnes of cargo, making it the sixth busiest airport by passenger numbers in Spain, and one of the 50 busiest in Europe. Furthermore, it is the busiest airport in the Valencian Community. The airport is the fourth largest base for low-cost giant Ryanair with 59 destinations served by the airline. The largest number of passengers is carried by Ryanair (3,152,724 passengers in 2010), followed by EasyJet (1,337,350). Air Berlin (620,671) is the distant third.
    http://www.wikipedia.com

    The use of airbridges and buses is due to the latest legislations and the airports must apply this rule fairly to all airlines using their airport. It would be illegal for them to offer a special deal to RyanAir.

    The new airport has been designed to speed up the turn around of flights by vastly increasing the checking desks, the runways, etc… which is what these airlines want.

  • #103893
    Profile photo of kgpoc
    kgpoc
    Participant

    Way too many people on one side of the argument here – I have to jump on the others side with peterhun! 🙂

    Personally – Michael O’Leary is a complete tool, Ryanair is no better then Telefonica (they become a monopoly and then wonder when it is questioned). Ryanair from here forward will have a harder time competing the way it used too. There are other models out there, try jetblue or southwestern and you will realize the difference between a quality low cost carrier and a pickpocket low cost carrier.

    Historically – This is all just smoke and mirrors, if he believed half of his hype on how important his service is he would increase the fee by 1 euro, and offer Alicante 50 cents more per passenger to leave things the way they were. Instead he thinks it better to loose 70% revenue on aircraft he already has leased for the next few years. Or he is just making public things like this to help him negotiate with Boeing on the next round of aircraft prices, etc. It is an old game and you can use that trick once, but only once! Alicante is a business partner (deal with it), they too could offer the routes up to EJ, Vueling, Air Berlin, etc.

  • #103894
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    If only people would boycott O’Dreary and Fly By Nite Ryanair for a week at a time, and rip-off Banks like HSBC (who boast they are cash rich and don’t need your money) so won’t match rates of competitors, it would focus their minds and maybe start putting loyal customers first.

  • #103895
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I don’t believe the airbridge dispute is at the heart of it. Airlines along with everything else are facing a collapse of demand. Look at this weeks UK high street sales figures. Household disposal incomes are falling, people are cutting back in all sectors.
    There is no way Ryanair will want to fly half empty planes. So how do you escape contractual agreements?
    Create a dispute O’Leary knows he cannot win and cut back your flights in protest. Simple business tactic hidden by O’Leary PR spin. He’s a master at it.

  • #103896
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @UBEDA wrote:

    Oh katy, i don’t know what hotels you stay in here in Spain. There are so many fantastic top grade hotels everywhere from Madrid, Barcelona,etc – real five star hotels and then so many new chains; eg “High tech”, Roommate, NH offering four/ five star quality for three star prices…………. you really must hate Spain!!!??


    by the way, St Lucia is poor mans caribbean; try St Barth, Barbados, Anguilla for a start ……… certainly no coffee makers around, no packages either, and no free golf eeek!! well, st barth doesn’t even have a golf course!!……………

    ps The costa del sol is heaving with tourists at the moment (just like the old days) : and all hotels are fully booked over the easter weekend!!!!!!!!!!!! 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

    Have you got a sticky keyboard 😆 I don’t hate Spain, just not the place I want to holiday in right now. If St. Lucia is the poor mans caribbean at spanish prices and superior accommodation, no high rise and better weather in March…all I can say is bring it on 8) Visited most of the Caribbean as we cruise there very winter, never been to St. Barts, bet you haven’t either.

    Was in marbella a few weeks ago, not many people around, although it was raining. I don’t want places I stay to be “heaving” Just somewhere inbetween heaving and dead!

  • #103899
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    4 star Spanish hotels are not luxurious, fairly basic actually. Surley staff, buffet food and overcrowded. I have stayed in many on business trips over the years. If you compare standards in these so called 4 star hotels to a 4 star hotel in France, Switzerland or UK they are in essence about 2 star quality and designed for large numbers.
    You get what you pay for.
    I agree with Katy, St Lucia is marvellous and absolutely unlike Spain. Hotel La Toc perfect. 🙂

  • #103900
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    Anonymous
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    I’d back O’Leary’s business acumen and know-how though against a bunch of gossiping speculators (me included by the way) on an online forum anyday 😀

    The guy has a knack of making millions despite the fact his business is loathed by so many. I’ve stopped questioning it and just let him get on with it – he ALWAYS comes up smelling of roses.

    I simply play the game by his rules….. select ultra special offer prices/no suitcases/pay by prepaid mastercard/no text alerts/never spend any money onboard/tolerate the smug, arrogant nature of the majority of their employees. They seem to be happy carrying me on these conditions so I think its wonderful value of 1.7p per mile travelled in the air.

    What if he doubles his prices to 3.4p per mile? Hardly a rip-off is it? If he keeps our fares low by shafting multinational aircraft producers and regional airports and governments – then good for him. He nails people on extras and they are the pre-published rules of the game.

    Long may it continue.

  • #103901
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “The use of airbridges and buses is due to the latest legislations and the airports must apply this rule fairly to all airlines using their airport. It would be illegal for them to offer a special deal to RyanAir.”

    They, Spain do not comply with legislations. Why should this be an exception !!!!!!!!!!!!

  • #103902
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    when law and legislations are enforced, people follow them.

    And whatever people think about certain institutions and services/industries in spain, please lets not tar everyone in this country with the same brush.

  • #103904
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    logan
    Participant

    @rialto wrote:

    The guy has a knack of making millions despite the fact his business is loathed by so many. I’ve stopped questioning it and just let him get on with it – he ALWAYS comes up smelling of roses.

    So in your world rialto the means justifies the ends. It matters not how much a bastard you are toward everyone you meet and do business with as long as you make a profit.
    That kind of business ethic has gone. It became fashionable in the eighties and has now run it’s course. Like Gordon Gecko, O’Leary is almost extinct as the dinosaurs.
    Budget airlines still do have a place in the market but O’Leary’s game is up. The EU Commission will see to that.

  • #103905
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “That kind of business ethic has gone.

    Sadly, it has not gone & in fact it has been taken to a much higher level in all sector of the commercial world.

  • #103907
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think you are being a tad harsh Logan. Whilst I don’t have any great affection for O’Leary’s management style you have to give the man at least grudging respect. He built a team which has taken a small, almost bankrupt regional airline over and turned it around in to one of the biggest and most profitable in Europe. There must be more to the man than all his bluster and abrasive public persona display.

    Also I believe it is way too premature to label an entrepeneur such as he is a dinosaur. I clearly recall many people saying similar things about Alan Sugar when his computer business hit a brick wall in the early 90’s. He switched his mind to property and made an even bigger fortune. Like O’Reilly he is a very uncompromising man to work with. I recall many years ago that in Amstrad’s head office, he was nicknamed ‘Ilford’. The reason being that that town is not far from Barking.

  • #103908
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @rialto wrote:

    I’d back O’Leary’s business acumen and know-how though against a bunch of gossiping speculators (me included by the way) on an online forum anyday 😀

    The guy has a knack of making millions despite the fact his business is loathed by so many. I’ve stopped questioning it and just let him get on with it

    He has simply copied the low cost concept from South West Airlines. Copying doesn’t take genius or business acumen, it simply needs access to a large amount of finance from the banks.

    @rialto wrote:

    he ALWAYS comes up smelling of roses.

    You watch, people love to see nice people fail, if MOL has problems they will be dancing in the street.

  • #103909
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    logan
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    I would not give him any respect for rising rough shod over almost everyone in the airline business for years.
    He extracted illegal subsidies from obscure local councils in France to fly into their struggling airports. When the courts ruled in other airlines favour that the subsidy was illegal he simply pulled out leaving local small business who had set up on the strength of passenger traffic high and dry.
    Yes he turned a small airline into a profitable company by clever marketing but if profit is everything in this world then it’s time I personally left it.
    I don’t believe modern business behaves in that way as a general rule and when it does regulators step in.
    Ryanair is long over due for a slap down. The EU Commission were afraid to take him on for some odd reason. Now that sentiment hopefully has changed.
    He is also at it in Girona. http://www.elpais.com/articulo/economia/Ryanair/cancelara/destinos/aeropuerto/Girona/elpepueco/20110216elpepueco_5/Tes
    Ryanair business model will not work with half empty planes.

  • #103910
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    Anonymous
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    I believe we both agree that Ryanair could do with having its wings clipped – I do mean that metaphorically btw 🙂 Likewise I am in no way enamoured with his business style. Like you I find it distasteful.

    Having never met MOL I can’t however say how much his public persona matches his actual personality. All I’m trying to say is there must be more to him than that persona. Otherwise he would surely have crashed and burned a long time ago.

    I have met AMS a few times. Again he has an abrasive personality and a management style I don’t like. That said he has been smart enough to surround himself with very astute people and to listen to their advice even if at times that went against his instincts. If he was a meglomaniac he simply wouldn’t have done that. My feeling is that MOL must have similar traits.

  • #103911
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    katy
    Spectator

    Never flown Ryanair as too far to Stanstead. I just wonder that if he is so ruthless maybe corners are cut regarding servicing aircraft etc.

  • #103913
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Easy Jet is a successful airline business and used to be run by very decent management.
    http://www.stelios.com/2003/cv.html
    It’s not necessary to behave as O’Leary does to build a successful business. As a human being he is probably similar to the rest of us, I don’t know but it’s his contempt for others, regulators, passengers, peripheral business I object to.
    I would not do business with Ryanair with a very long pole, never mind board their aircraft. Many others I know feel the same and have the scars to prove it.

  • #103916
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    Anonymous
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    He has simply copied the low cost concept from South West Airlines. Copying doesn’t take genius or business acumen, it simply needs access to a large amount of finance from the banks “

    Its not that simple. Copying is one thing & to see it through is another ?? At that level one has to be uncompromising. If leaders of the world compromise they will not be leaders, it is part of this single minded that makes them what they are.

  • #103918
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    zoro
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    I’ve flown Ryanair several times because Stansted is so convenient and although you have to watch it like a hawk when booking and at the check in, once on the plane I find it to be better than the likes of Thompson for instance. The seats actually seem to have slightly more legroom, maybe because they have removed the magazine pouches and the seats don’t recline which means the person in front can’t close the space down to practically zero.

    As far as their business practices are concerned I’d say they are very much typical of the modern day, at least in the UK.
    Banks show great headline rates for savings which disappear down to practically zero after a year and screw their credit card customers whenever they can. Supermarkets totally screw their suppliers whenever they can and their customers too with surrupticious price increases, usually before a special offer. Whenever Tescos do a 5p off the price of fuel offer it is always after they have just hiked the price. Car parking companies monitoring retail car parks try and con people who over stay that they must pay £80+ as a penalty charge or be taken to court, even going as far as sending fraudulent and misleading notices through the post. Local Authorities and the police treat the owners of cars as criminals because it’s easier and more profitable to chase them than the driver. Nearly all companies use premium rate numbers if you want to complain about their service and keep you waiting long enough to make it as expensive as possible. Mobile phone and Telecomms companies take every opportunity to screw you when abroad, the Utility companies, Train companies etc. etc., and as for Sky and the way they have practically sewn up sport….. The list is endless but the rant has made me feel better.

    In short the name of the game is to either lure in a customer with a low entry price and then bleed him or her dry after that or create a dependence or virtual monopoly and do it that way.

    Ryanair are obviously very good at the former but not bad at the latter too.

  • #103920
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    logan
    Participant

    All very good reasons zoro for not living in the UK. I did with it over 30 years ago and never for a moment have I regretted it. 🙂

  • #103929
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Logan. If you think it was bad 30 years ago. You better come back & see whats on offer.

  • #103935
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    logan
    Participant

    I didn’t leave the UK because I thought Britain was in a bad place. I just wanted to do other things and had the opportunity.
    However I do go back for a visit, usually for business reasons every year and recognize the changes. The O’Leary effect is everywhere.
    I guess I have just gone native and much prefer France and Spain as more civilized places to live. France especially and no I never would fly Ryanair. I travel everywhere by car.

  • #103945
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    Anonymous
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    Good for you Logan.

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