Rural Business Planning Permissions in Andalucia

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #53599
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I wonder can anyone offer any advice on the process and general chances of sucess for planning permissions of rural businesses being built on rural land, by foreigners. My partner and I want to relocate from Britain to Andalucia, and have been looking at land to purchase and build our business. As it involves the care and breeding of animals, we have to buy rural land and I am told that we would be eligible to apply for planning permission as a rural activity. We’ve been shown several pieces of land, currently with no constructions on, and are told that we would need to buy the land first and then the approval for the bulding would be a formality – as long as it is for a bona fide ‘rural activity’ and our plans are within the local planning restrictions. Any comments would be welcome.
    This is my first post.

  • #78128
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Good luck with your venture.

    Don’t take the word of the person selling you the land, as many on this forum will tell you. I believe there are some rural activities that enable you to live and possibly build on rural land, and I hope someone else with more knowlede than I have will be able to help you.

  • #78130
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    My advice would be that when you choose your land and before sign anything or give any money you should go to the Town Hall and require all the legal information about your project; building licenses and business permit. The best option is request the information in writing. Don´t forget to check previously the Land at “Registro de la Propiedad”

    Felix Lopez
    http://www.fljordan.com Spanish Law Firm

  • #78131
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Suza,

    In general, there should be no reason why permission can be denied for the construction of agricultural buildings on your land. Provided the unit will be used for storage of machinery, livestock or foodstuffs.

    Only minor planning is required and is often quickly achieved. If your planned venture is not contraversial, then all should be a simple formality. Obviously if you are planning a venture that is considered dangerous, such as breeding wild-cats or deadly reptiles then you could expect opposition from both the town hall and neighbours.

    Get yourself a good lawyer and architect “BEFORE” you buy the land and go with them to the town hall to seek out their planning restrictions and out-line approval.

    Never part with any money until you have assurances from all concerned. If your agent presses you with myths such as there are others looking to buy your plot, call their bluff or ignore it and quietly go about your research at the town hall.

    It is usually a formality to obtain this kind of permit, but if you complicate it with a dwelling house, mobile home, swimming pool or any other non-agricultural related building it will almost certainly run into troube.

    I hope the above helps. Please, please ensure you find that architect and lawyer (preferably better if they have worked together before) before you go any further.

    Peter.

  • #78132
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thank you for those comments.
    We have an architect working on design plans, who told us that he has spoken to the town hall about the business in principle. However, he warned that the Andalucian regional authority has the final say.

    If we have to be the land owners to submit plans, is there any way we can know the chances of success before we buy – or the chances of us ending up with a piece of rural land that we cannot build upon legally?

  • #78135
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Suza

    My advice in this case is that you have to request an answer in writing from the Town Hall and from La Junta de Andalucía. After you can start.

    Felix Lopez

  • #78136
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @peter Good wrote:

    Hi Suza,

    It is usually a formality to obtain this kind of permit, but if you complicate it with a dwelling house, mobile home, swimming pool or any other non-agricultural related building it will almost certainly run into troube.

    I hope the above helps. Please, please ensure you find that architect and lawyer (preferably better if they have worked together before) before you go any further.

    Peter.

    Peter, I really appreciate these comments. Herein lies my fear – we’re being told by the architect as well as the agent, that we can have a dwelling on the land, because it’s reasonable to expect that we would need to live there for the business. However, when we talked through the detail of the plans we were told that for planning submission only one bedroom would be noted (as necessary for workers rest) and the rest of the proposed house would be ‘renamed’ as storage/ wash areas etc. I took from this that they were advising us to pretend that we’re not living there, when clearly the land would be our main residence. We want to start a new life with a bona fide venture – not land ourselves as illegal squatters on our own land!! Do you know if there is a legal way to argue for planning permission for a dwelling as well – because we genuinely do need to live there to operate the business.

  • #78137
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @spanishlawyer wrote:

    Hi Suza

    My advice in this case is that you have to request an answer in writing from the Town Hall and from La Junta de Andalucía. After you can start.

    Felix Lopez

    Thanks Felix – Can you obtain this without buying land first? Can you gain approval in principle for example? And then re-apply with a particular plot of land in mind? Or is this a chicken and egg situation?

  • #78139
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The JDA will be the final stamp of approval. Those are the people you need to visit with your lawyer and architect prior to buying the land.

    If you have assurances and proof the venture is OK in principle then you will need to be resolute and confident and purchase the land before you submit the planning paperwork and payment.

    There is no real way of eleviating the final risk of refusal, but you can do all the research possible to minimise it. I think the term is “bite the bullet”

  • #78141
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Suza, if you recall the recent case in Vera concerning the Priors and subsequent demolishion debacle, the facts that have so far emerged seem to indicate that their house was built on rustic land but permission was given to them by the Vera town hall.

    Unfortunatly, town halls cannot re classify land from rustic to urban. Only regional authorities can do that, and the JDA never authorised it, hence the demolition.

    Local town halls can give planning consent and building licenses to build on poligono´s that are urbanised, provided the buildings adhere to restricted planning rules passed down to them from the regional authorities, such as, density, the amount of levels, boundaries and access etc.

    You will commit yourdelves to several years of doubt (at least 2 years) before the JDA make a decision on building a dwelling house there, and as mostly happens, the answer will be no.

    I would suggest you find a legal dwelling property near to your land – keep your land soleley for the venture, this will avoid costly fees and lenghty delays

  • #78142
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    Suza, if you recall the recent case in Vera concerning the Priors and subsequent demolishion debacle, the facts that have so far emerged seem to indicate that their house was built on rustic land but permission was given to them by the Vera town hall.

    Unfortunatly, town halls cannot re classify land from rustic to urban. Only regional authorities can do that, and the JDA never authorised it, hence the demolition.

    Local town halls can give planning consent and building licenses to build on poligono´s that are urbanised, provided the buildings adhere to restricted planning rules passed down to them from the regional authorities, such as, density, the amount of levels, boundaries and access etc.

    Yes – it was reading about the Vera case that caused my concerns. Thank you for your detailed input

  • #78143
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    You can not gain approval in principle but you can expose to the Town Hall and Junta what do you want to do exactly and ask if it is possible and how can you do, what is the procedure etc.
    And remember with public law you have to work always in writing and try to understand everything before. Be patient, it is a very important investment. Don´t be in a hurry

    Felix Lopez

  • #78144
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In the present climate. I would apply full prudence. Is not possible for you to rent the premises until such time that the permission id granted.

    The demand for such type of land in dwindling as Spain moves from agricultural base economy.

  • #78145
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I was thinking suza, the alternative would be to buy a working farm that has the ameneties you require such as adequate agriculural buildings and legal dwelling on site. You can always alter the buildings to suit your purpose as you progress.

  • #78146
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Never part with any money until you have assurances from all concerned. If your agent presses you with myths such as there are others looking to buy your plot, call their bluff or ignore it and quietly go about your research at the town hall.

    Absolutely right ,call the bluff of the agent. I only know of one occasion when an agent said that there was another buyer sniffing around and it was true. It is a ploy by agents and the Spanish in general to come up with the story of another buyer, sometimes according to their fantasies there are three, it is utter bunkum .

    Have everything in writing as far as permissions go, I know many people who have gone ahead on a nod and a wink from the town hall and lived to regret it financially.

    Be very very careful,that the permissions are for what you need. Some friends of mine started a business, had the opening licence were paying taxes, V.A.T. etc an inspector came round one day and said they could not sell a certain product ,only Spanish nationals could. As it was a product that produced 90% of the business profits they had to close down. Spain being the contradiction that it is can mean that as far as planning goes everything is fine at the town hall but then another government body has a rule against the type of activity being carried on in the area.

    Good luck I hope everything works out for you.

  • #78149
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    All really sound advice. I must say thanks to everyone on the forum – I think these types of public platform are what makes the internet such a powerful medium for the ‘little’ person. It’s such an important decision in our lives and one that we can’t afford to mess up.

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