Rip off Britain

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #54048
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The good news is that I have just become a father.

    The bad news is it costs 400 quid just to apply for British citizenship for my child, and as I am British by descent (born abroad) it is highly uncertain that the application will be successful.

    To apply I have to fill in a fiddly form, and provide, amongst other things, documents such as my parents’ birth and marriage certificates. I have to find 2 referees, and demonstrate good character. Then, of course, there is the 400 quid, non-refundable if they turn down the application. It could take 2 to 4 weeks just to get the application acknowledged.

    Contrast this with an application for Swiss citizenship. Citizenship by descent is guaranteed. All you have to do is post a birth certificate to the Swiss consulate, the whole process takes a week to 10 days, and there is no fee.

    You pay lower taxes in Switzerland, yet the state is much more efficient.

    Britain has become a bloated, rip off, nanny state.

    Mark

  • #83653
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    CONGRATULATIONS MARK !

    ……and of course, congratulations also to Mum + Baby.

    Best wishes to you all.

    Not much sleep for you chum for a while 😆
    .

  • #83655
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oh wow, congratulations! Boy/girl, name?

  • #83656
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Great news Mark. I wish you all well and hope to be seeing more of you on the board in the early hours 😯

  • #83658
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @hillybilly wrote:

    Boy/girl, name?

    I wondered that…..he’s obviously not sure. Too busy writing his next property column?
    .

  • #83659
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Enhorabuena!

    A friend of a friend has just been refused citizenship for his Son. They are both South African, British parents.

    Could be an article there for you as many who have moved over to Spain may want to consider the options (such as going back to the UK for the birth 😉 )

  • #83660
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Are Spanish Property Doctors allowed to deliver their own babies I wonder 😆

  • #83675
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark – firstly congrats.

    Likewise, my youngest son was born Christmas Eve here (in Marbella Hospital). Between my wife and myself, number 10!! (she has 4 others I have 5, first and last together!!)

    My lad has a Spanish Passport at a cost of €16, obtained in one hour by prior appointment at the National Police in Fuengirola. At the end of the day, he was born in Spain and is, therefore, Spanish.

    However, as he has two British Parents, he is entitled to claim the second Nationality of British and with it a second passport. To ease things later in life if he wishes to claim to be British, we will get him a first passport and then he will be able to obtain later if he wants. Now come our problems….. We need to get a copia literal of his record of birth in the registry of Mijas. No problem – two copies issued free of charge along with the “Libro de Familiar”. Then we have to have a British Birth Certificate issued by the Consulate – no more than a copy of the Copia Literal – at a cost of €70 . Then we have to get a copy of our decrees absolutes from the relevant British Courts. Our originals were taken from us by the consulate in Bali when we married 2 years ago (after 8 years together) as we had to produce letters of “No Impediment” to the Bali Authorities. The two letters cost $300, which were 4 line letters in English and Indonesian produced in a word processed document with five facts from the decree’s included. We have to pay the two County Courts in the UK £10 each for duplicates where the originals are already in the hand of the FCO. Then we have to pay €140 for a passport application ( 5 years only) when sending to Madrid. Only problem is we have to add a further €40 for courier return despite the fact that my courier will do the job in half the time for €20. Then, if the photo of the baby does not meet their standards, it is returned by courier for replacement and return along with another €40 for further courier services. Oh, sorry – because my wife only has a “short” UK birth certificate, we need to get a full certificate for £10 from the registry office in the UK. We also need to answer 200 questions about our grandparents and parents.

    At the moment, we really do think if it is worth it. He has a passport issued for €16 (£12) in 1 hour. Do we need to pay the extortionate prices of the British Consul to issue the second? He is probably better off not claiming to be British as a second Nationality!

    PS – If you are resident and paying SS here, don’t forget to claim the €2,500 baby allowance and the €100 a month for three years! It is the only SS payment the baby will probably ever see!

    Katy – no one should consider returning to the UK to give birth. The care and facilities here (or at least certainly at the CDS Hospital) are so superior to the UK (and this is the first here with 9 experiences in the UK!)

  • #83710
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks to you all. As you ask he is a boy, very sweet and well behaved. He will, of course, be Spanish, like his mum.

    And congratulations to you Rob. 10 kids. The mind boggles.

    Rob’s comments just confirms what a bureaucratic place the UK has become. Is British citizenship worth the hassle and expense? Does a British passport do you any favours in the world today? I’m not sure it does. Certainly a disadvantage when it comes to the Eurovision song contest.

    The birth of our son was covered by our private medical insurance, which costs around 150 Euros a month for two. We were in a state of the art hospital, and the care was exceptional. I don’t think private medical insurance in the UK covers births, so you have to pay extra if you want to go private in the UK. I know someone who gave birth in a private hospital in London, and it cost them 12,000 pounds, whereas here it didn’t cost us anything over and above our normal health insurance premiums. Rip off Britain.

    Mark

  • #83727
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    And congratulations to you Rob. 10 kids.

    No problem, just like Christaning cake! Oh, dont forget 2 Golden Retrievers to boot!!

    @mark wrote:

    The birth of our son was covered by our private medical insurance, which costs around 150 Euros a month for two. We were in a state of the art hospital, and the care was exceptional. I don’t think private medical insurance in the UK covers births, so you have to pay extra if you want to go private in the UK.

    To be honest, and maybe that does not apply in your area Mark, on the CDS I would advise against private health insurance – it really is a waste of time and money! The biggest provider here, Sanitas, is a part of BUPA but the moment the going gets tough, the private insuranve provides cover for a transfer from the private hospital by private ambulance to the CDS Hospital!

    I was outside the CDS A&E department for an hour on Easter Sunday whilst my sister-in-law underwent tests for a kidney infection. In that hour, 18 ambulances arrived with patients. 6 were Social Security ambulances, 3 were private ambulances providing just ambulance services and 9 were private ambulances from private hospitals transferring patients into “NHS” care. That suggests something to me.

    I know of 4 other mothers who have given birth in the private sector in the past 6 months that wished they had used the facilities of the CDS Hospital. As I said, CDS may be different, but Private Hospital here are overshaddowed by the CDS

  • #83787
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Congratulations Mark! Now you will really find out what life is all about.

    I second Robs description of the loacal care here, I have had to use the Spanish public system for the last year and I can say it was tremendous.

    Enjoy your son.

  • #83791
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Congratulations Mark, I hope your sleep doesn’t get too disrupted by you new arrival.

    My son, was born here. I was disappointed to learn that he doesn’t qualify for Spanish citizenship. We were advised that two British parent means that he is British. He can however elect to become Spanish when he is 18. So we are stuck with rip off UK passports.

    We also tried to get a UK birth certificate, again very expensive. We were advised that it was a pointless document, and we wouldn’t need it for anything. So my lad just has the Spanish Family Book.

  • #83795
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Definetly agree this is something that needs writing about Mark..along with the Spanish obsession with stamped documents! Living here is not just about buying a property!

    Meghan was born here on the 23d Dec last year, and as with El anciano, we were told by the national police that she was NOT entitled to Spanish passport etc…How on earth did you get one Rob!!

    From my research, she is entitled to a UK passport (at a ridiculous cost) but any children she has will not as she is British by descent. The UKBA website has actually got quite a long section on who can apply for a UK passport, and it states “British by descent: British citizenship gained through your parents. This type of citizenship cannot normally be passed on to your own children” so it looks like you would be wasting your money Mark.

    Its http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/

    I had posted previously about changing nationality, but, surprise surprise, the UK government CHARGE you for this..a whooping 500 quid!!

    If you can claim Spanish or Swiss nationality, why bother?
    Unless you think Spain and the UK are about to have a major falling out!!

    Welcome to the wonderful world of parenthood..and all the joys it entails!

    Heather, with a sleeping child in her arms…

  • #83926
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @heatherpsk wrote:

    Meghan was born here on the 23d Dec last year, and as with El anciano, we were told by the national police that she was NOT entitled to Spanish passport etc…How on earth did you get one Rob!!

    Spoke to my Asesoría this morning as something didn’t add up and now have the answer! It was he that helped me obtain the Spanish passport for my son and I hadn’t realised there was a twist in the tail because of his past financial dealings on my behalf! Four years ago, for divorce reasons, I wanted to transfer my sleeping partnership (via a UK Limited Company) in a hotel in the UK “offshore”. Because of tax reasons, it suited me to be a Spanish Citizen as well as a resident and tax resident of Spain so I took Spanish Citizenship (but not Nationality) at a total cost to me of €55, and transferred the shares in the property company to offshore ownership. At the time it saved me a lot of CGT on the shares and an even more substantial saving on my divorce settlement!!

    As a result, my son born on the 24th December last year, was entitled to automatic Spanish Citizenship and with it to get a Spanish Passport – sorry if I have misled as I didn’t know myself that had I not got that citizenship, he wouldn’t have got till his 18th Birthday.

    However, the fact he was issued with one and it was still only €16 for that Spanish Passport with much less red tape and cost in getting a British one (I still claim to be a British National and citizen – the Spanish do not recognise dual citizenship but the British do!!) shows just how much a rip off state the UK is. Actually, I am entitled to a Spanish Passport myself and think next year when my UK one expires that a €16 one may be a preferred option!

  • #83928
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    That’s really interesting, I was under the impression that you needed to be resident in Spain for 10 years or more to be eligible for citizenship. Was this the case for you?

    If so, I’m not sure how you’d prove it these days, now that the residents cards have gone and we have the silly yellow piece of paper 🙁

  • #83930
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Didn’t realise that tax dodging was so easy, wonder why some of the “real” rich don’t know about this 🙄

  • #83945
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @El anciano wrote:

    I was under the impression that you needed to be resident in Spain for 10 years or more to be eligible for citizenship

    Correct – at the time I had 11 years under my belt and this November that will be 16.

    @El anciano wrote:

    If so, I’m not sure how you’d prove it these days, now that the residents cards have gone and we have the silly yellow piece of paper

    I had to prove my wife was a resident last year, when we sold our old home. We hadn’t bothered to renew her residents card, waiting for the silly bits of paper to be fully operating here. The notary accepted copies of the previous three years tax returns with receipts for payment of tax due as proof of residency.

    @katy wrote:

    Didn’t realise that tax dodging was so easy

    No tax dodging as such – just a deferment. One day the asset will be liquidated (possibly this winter) and then CGT (along with various company taxes) will need to be paid. What I didn’t want, when I took that citizenship, was to pay CGT on an asset that was still owned and also pay too much of a divorce settlement – would have ended up having to borrow a substantial sum! In fact, if it had only been a tax thing, it would not have been efficient as it will cost me about 5% extra in taxes when I sell compared with what it would have done when I made the changes, but saved me nearer 35% of the value elsewhere!!

  • #85534
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry, Mark have not been on this page for a while, please accept my late congratulations.

    Rip off Britain, where do you want me to start. Why do you think we have so called full employment. If you think your papers cost money, Try and obtain a tourist visa to UK. As most people who need visa are from third world Countries you can imagine how much it cost them with third world salaries, exchange rates and as most of them get turned down they lose the application fee.

  • #85535
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Katy: “Didn’t realise that tax dodging was so easy, wonder why some of the “real” rich don’t know about this”

    This is Tax planning and legal. The rich do it all the time, one of the reason that they are rich is that they don’t hand over the money to the Tax man year in/out.

  • #85682
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Another example of HM’s Government ripping off the British abroad.

    Resgistration of Death – no charge.
    Death Certificate issued locally in Greece – no charge.
    A certified lawyer’s English translation of same, adequate for UK purposes – 60 euros.

    But
    A certificate of Registration of Death from the local British Consulate in Greece (optional but advises of lots of ‘advantages’…..what advantages???) – 223 euros.

    The helpful lady at the local British Consulate in Greece told me in all the years she’s been working there, not one family have bothered to get the Registration of Death certificate from them.
    At 223 euros, surprise, surprise.

  • #85688
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    what advantages???

    Perhaps the language at the doors of heaven is English? The bouncers at the doors of heaven are ex civil servants, who before they welcome a new resident need’s to be assured that the new member can prove that they are dead.

  • #86001
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just got a Spanish passport and ID card for our son.

    Issued on the spot, took less than an hour, travel included. Total cost less than 25 Euros. Another example to put the UK to shame.

    Mark

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