PW – Explain please

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This topic contains 109 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #53625
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    Anonymous
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    Having been reading the forum for a few months now, it seems to me that the Polaris World operation continually receives criticism from some of the contributors to this board.
    Since I do not own a property in Spain ( but would like to… ) I am genuinely interested why PW gets such a bad press from some people. In the interests of fairness & balance, I am sure that there are countless numbers of people who have purchased from PW and are very happy with their lot……So why the apparently continual criticism..? I am sure there will be those who have not had such a good experience, but are they in the majority..?

    I did read the mail about local officials being accused of some ‘malpractice’….however that is not limited to Murcia, and I have not seen anything in writing from PW, that associates them with any illegality, therefore …..what’s the score….?

    I have visited some PW exhibitions here in the UK, but never been to any of their locations in Spain. As a potential consumer their design, sales pitch, marketing etc seem very professional,….and I cannot understand why they get criticised on this board. I do think the prices are excessive,…but I guess that’s a personal judgement.

    Please understand,…this request is only for me to more fully understand the overall situation, and to help me make a more informed decision.

    Many Thanks.

  • #78350
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Maybe you should do a bit more research on the web, you would find a lot of reasons!

  • #78351
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
  • #78353
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi John
    A man called Facundo Armero was previously a partner in Polaris World (before he sold off his share for 300 million €) and is currently under suspicion as the main man in a large corruption investigation. He is one of the 14 suspects who have been questioned so far in the case.

    In this investigation, a telephone conversation was recorded by court order, where Armero is heard saying to the Mayor of Torre Pacheco, Daniel García, ‘I want the Torre Pacheco zoning plans approved now.’
    Maybe that is how permissions for PW was obtained???

    The investigation includes: misappropriation of funds, influence peddling, bribery, perversion of the justice, revealing secret information, and fraud.
    Possibly Armero’s previous connection with PW as a partner has something to do with the bad press? Planning documents have been seized in this investigation – will be interesting to see if anything directly concerning PW is discovered.

  • #78356
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    JohnM wrote:
    Having been reading the forum for a few months now, it seems to me that the Polaris World operation continually receives criticism from some of the contributors to this board.
    Since I do not own a property in Spain ( but would like to… ) I am genuinely interested why PW gets such a bad press from some people. In the interests of fairness & balance, I am sure that there are countless numbers of people who have purchased from PW and are very happy with their lot……So why the apparently continual criticism..? I am sure there will be those who have not had such a good experience, but are they in the majority..?

    I did read the mail about local officials being accused of some ‘malpractice’….however that is not limited to Murcia, and I have not seen anything in writing from PW, that associates them with any illegality, therefore …..what’s the score….?

    I have visited some PW exhibitions here in the UK, but never been to any of their locations in Spain. As a potential consumer their design, sales pitch, marketing etc seem very professional,….and I cannot understand why they get criticised on this board. I do think the prices are excessive,…but I guess that’s a personal judgement.

    Please understand,…this request is only for me to more fully understand the overall situation, and to help me make a more informed decision.

    Many Thanks.

    Go visit Murcia and see the bad locations of some of the PW resorts (in the middle of nowhere, far from the beach, mountains and supermarkets).

  • #78358
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    Go visit Murcia and see the bad locations of some of the PW resorts (in the middle of nowhere, far from the beach, mountains and supermarkets).

    and with a large lake with millions of dragon flied swarming around it

  • #78359
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Here’s a deal not to be missed! Just arrived in my junk mail.

    Incredible Deal for Investors

    This is an exclusive opportunity to enjoy all the benefits of Polaris World home ownership, with no wait for completion, PLUS a generous cash lump-sum

    €20,000 CASH REFUND when you purchase a key-ready, frontline golf property at the Polaris World Golf Resort of Hacienda Riquelme

    €20,000 CASH REFUND

    Just think what you could do with that spare cash:

    * equivalent of nearly 3 years mortgage interest repayments!
    * equivalent of around 2 years rental income!
    * Or why not furnish your new Spanish property (and have some cash left to spend on holidays!)

    Prices for these luxurious 2 bed, frontline golf properties start at 175.055 euros.

    Availability of EXCLUSIVE OFFER frontline golf properties is limited, and is expected to be sold out within the next few weeks.

    Why not take a no-obligation trip to view Hacienda Riquelme Golf Resort in person?

    Special February Viewing Visits are available from just £49 per person

  • #78361
    Profile photo of marios
    marios
    Participant

    And why waste money advertising if all sold out in a few weeks.

  • #78363
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Good point Marios. I see whole page adverts here advertising developments that have “only two units remaining” 🙂

  • #78364
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The viewing trips sound good at £49 – we could meet up for coffee Katy! 😀

  • #78366
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    charlie wrote:
    The viewing trips sound good at £49 – we could meet up for coffee Katy! 😀

    If I had time, I would prefer the £150 viewing trips to Cape Verde or the £100 viewing trips to Turkey.

    One can still fly for £50 round trip to Spain whereas to Cape Vedre is £300+ and the Turkey is £200+. BUt maybe they cancel the return trips if one does not purchase in Cape Verde.:))

  • #78370
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry for sounding un-convinced by your request JohnM, but why would you want more confirmation of why a company is being slated by not just this forum but other websites, papers etc….

    Anyone with any common sence who hasn’t already bought from any company and reads so much bad press about that ‘any’ company would stay clear

    Me thinks you could work for PW in some form or other…!

    I apologise in advance if this is not the case JohnM.

    Ian

  • #78375
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have heard that the special forces of the spanish Guardia Civil (the military police) against property corruption have arrived to Totana (Murcia) for futher investigation in the Totem case of Totana.

    Let see what more happens. Murcia is a total mess and the Malaya Case will be very low compared with is happening in several councils of the Region of Murcia.

  • #78380
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
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    Hello Ian,….No I do not work for PW……I am still working in what is left of the UK manufacturing industry….but I may not be employed for too much longer, and hence I would like to use that ‘break’ to start something new in Spain.
    The reason I asked for some background is that from my vantage point in the UK, I only see the TV adverts for PW, and I occasionally look at the web site. Now from those perspectives my impression is that PW offers very eye catching properties, within some picturesque settings…the Jack Nicklaus endorsement does add some weight to their campaigns also.

    When I read this forum, I see a fair amount of criticism, …..criticism that I don’t really see or hear in the UK. Now maybe I’m looking in the wrong places, but that’s the truth of it,……and I wanted to get as much info as I could before I make the jump.

    The forum replies have been interesting, and especially PeterP, and Charlie’s ……( Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply ) I would not begin to guess what the eventual outcome of that will be.
    One last point,…..I’ve never been to any PW location, nor been on any viewing trips, so I have not seen it with my own eyes. Perhaps when I eventually get the chance to visit a PW location, I will be as convinced of their shortcomings as the posters on this board,….but for now….I don’t think I have enough evidence to make a judgement.

  • #78382
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dear John.

    For regular information about the scandal read the La Verdad newspaper website:

    http://www.laverdad.es

    This is the major newspaper of the Region of Murcia. If finally the case explodes you will see more accurate and impartial information in the national newspapers like El Pais and El Mundo. Meanwhile let see what happens.

  • #78383
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    An article of 2 years ago about the origins of Polaris World:

    http://www.elpais.com/articulo/elpporesp/20060226elpepinac_13/Tes/espana/misterioso/milagro/Polaris

    Or how a company can become a 600 million euro company from scratch in 4 years.

  • #78384
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    JohnM: Sorry to hear that you will one of the next victim of the eroding manufacturing sector. Before I go any further remember all that glitter is not gold and this hold very true in the sales & marketing.

    ” criticism that I don’t really see or hear in the UK”

    Now you don’t expect such a subject to be taken up at your local pub. People in UK are very insular and prefer to remain this way as far as they have their mortgage paid, season ticket of their football club and money to go down the pub.

    A few years ago I read that 11 out 15 people could not point out London on the Atlas & these people were Londoners. So, I do not see they would know much about PW or any other world, apart from their own world.

    Of course their are thousands of people for whom things went well in Spain and you will not hear of them which is a pitty as this will give a balance view.

    Sadly, the heart breaking stories of many are for all to see on the forum. I hope that they will all have an happy ending.

    Finally, I would not start a business in Spain. The Country does not have commercial ethos, Taxes and social security and Banks will cream of your capital if they don’t than manana will.

  • #78390
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Why would anyone think a celebrity golfer gives any credence to a development ❓ He will just have been paid for the ad’ 🙄

  • #78391
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Suggest the OP wanders over to:

    http://www.spainfurniture.net/polaris-world-forum.asp

    And see what some of the actual owners think of the PW concept. There are several with the rosiest of tinted glasses, but even some of these people are now getting fed up of poor customer service, poor build quality and broken PW promises. The “flagship” resort of El Valle (ie the most expensive) does not have any of the promised town centre facilities.

    I placed a deposit for a PW property a few years ago but pulled out and got my deposit back. Best decision I ever made.

    Kevin

  • #78392
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    JohnM wrote:
    web site. Now from those perspectives my impression is that PW offers very eye catching properties, within some picturesque settings…the Jack Nicklaus endorsement does add some weight to their campaigns also.

    La Torre Resort and Mar Menor Resorts are located in settings which are anything but picturesque. They are in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by agricultural land which has lots of flies.

  • #78393
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Why would anyone think a celebrity golfer gives any credence to a development He will just have been paid for the ad’ “

    Katy,….A little cynical methinks…….

    Having been a golfer for many years I am of the opinion that Jack Nicklaus would not let his name / reputation be damaged by associating himself with poor or dodgy business dealings,…however on reflection perhaps his involvement in the whole PW thing begins and ends with golf course design, …he therefore has zero involvement in the building / construction part of the business.

    Yes….I am sure he was paid for use of his name,…but he’s spent too long building a good reputation to allow it to be damaged, by a 3rd party.

    For sure I do not know the answer, but I do believe that the Jack Nicklaus ‘name’ is one of the major selling points for golfers who may decide to purchase a PW property.

    To kpw4v….Thanks, I will certainly have a look at the link you posted.

    ralita,..Thanks also….As I mentioned in a previous post , I’ve never actually been to any PW site, so your comments are welcome.

  • #78396
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Why would anyone think a celebrity golfer gives any credence to a development He will just have been paid for the ad’ “

    Indeed. The first question is to be asked and directly to the celebrity is, if they have bought one and not given one as the case in Dubai where properties have been deemed to have been bought by the likes of Beckham, Owen, etc etc.

    ” Now from those perspectives my impression is that PW offers very eye catching properties, within some picturesque settings…the Jack Nicklaus endorsement does add some weight to their campaigns also”

    Ofcourse they will put the best foot forward.

  • #78399
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Johnm…yes I am a little cynical. I also think you are a (little?) naive. I am a golfer too and I doubt that Jack has ever seen PW. If he has it will have been just for a photo shoot.

  • #78400
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    What’s wrong in being cynical. unless of course it is the lowest form of humour.

  • #78401
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Katy,…Well that is probably a fair point, although I hope I am not totally naive….hence all the research prior to taking a decision. I guess it is too much to hope for that companies like PW will be as honest with you, as you are with them….
    The link posted by kpw4u was very interesting indeed, and it does indicate that lots of people have issues with snagging, dampness, and some rules about fencing, external lighting etc.

    The replies have been very informative, and the link from peterp about the origins of PW gave some good background detail.

    In conclusion, I am not at all sure that I would purchase from PW, but I think it is better to know that now and not be in the position of an unsatisfied customer.

  • #78402
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @JohnM wrote:

    Hello Ian,….No I do not work for PW…… within some picturesque settings…the Jack Nicklaus endorsement does add some weight to their campaigns also.

    OK, what ever you do NEVER NEVER buy anything just because you think it’s ok due to a celeb promoting it….It’s just marketing, yes if you thinks it a good buy and suits your needs, but never because X is a marketing it…

    X couldn’t give 2 hoots if your property was demolished, classed as illegal or other. At the end of the day X has his/her money from the campaign and thats that.

  • #78404
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    Anonymous
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    JohnM wrote:

    Having been a golfer for many years I am of the opinion that Jack Nicklaus would not let his name / reputation be damaged by associating himself with poor or dodgy business dealings,…however on reflection perhaps his involvement in the whole PW thing begins and ends with golf course design, ….

    There were about a total of 10 golfers during the week we stayed there. The golf course was so empty that I could teach my kids to play some golf as there was no danger of stray balls…

    I can bet that NIklaus does not know where Murcia is on the map. He just cares about the money he pocketed.

  • #78406
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Yup, PW will be just a name and number on his bank credits 😆

  • #78407
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @charlie wrote:

    The viewing trips sound good at £49 – we could meet up for coffee Katy! 😀

    Good idea, we could have a meet up in all the countries one nameless agent is selling in. We could run alternative inspection tours on what NOT to buy. 🙂

  • #78409
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    😆

  • #78410
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    mike
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    ” criticism (of PW) that I don’t really see or hear in the UK”

    Now you don’t expect such a subject to be taken up at your local pub. People in UK are very insular and prefer to remain this way as far as they have their mortgage paid, season ticket of their football club and money to go down the pub.

    Shakeel, there are two types of British attitudes to Spanish property. The first is from those who have bought Spanish property, they don’t like to discuss it, in fact they don’t really know what to discuss as they were just told that they will be rich if they sign on the dotted line.

    The others don’t care because they dismissed the idea of Spanish property, and therefore PW as a provider of such, a long time ago. They are far more interested in the US economy and the presidential race there.

    Of course there is a disinterested minority, like myself, who are very interested in Spanish property as we like to observe the slow motion train wreck but very few people of any nationality talk to us about the subject.

    @shakeel wrote:

    A few years ago I read that 11 out 15 people could not point out London on the Atlas & these people were Londoners. So, I do not see they would know much about PW or any other world, apart from their own world.

    Complete and utter rubbish. Unless you can provide a link or a reference then I will assume that you are a liar.

    @shakeel wrote:

    Of course their are thousands of people for whom things went well in Spain and you will not hear of them which is a pitty as this will give a balance view.

    Maybe these people are down the Spanish bar watching the football having paid their Spanish mortgage.

    Your post didn’t add much, Shakeel, but it made me laugh in a nasty point at him kind of way. As I am sure I have pointed out before, Shakeel, you’re a friggin idiot.

  • #78413
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oh dear!

  • #78415
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    This forum is full of them but Ralita has got to be the saddest , most miserable loser around. Anybody who cannot see past the crap this guy is coming up with, is beyond help! I suggest he buys on the most remote island and give us a break!!!

  • #78417
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    adonf wrote:
    This forum is full of them but Ralita has got to be the saddest , most miserable loser around. Anybody who cannot see past the crap, this guy is coming up with, is beyond help! I suggest he buys on the most remote island and give us a break!!!

    Maybe I am the most miserable loser around.but your properties in PW are still among the worst purchase ever!

  • #78420
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I rest my case! Point made. Thank you.

  • #78421
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I attended several PW meetings with Jack Nicklause present. I saw his helicopter land at Condado de Alhama when the project was launced and subsequently re-launched. He does know Murcia very well and keeps a very close eye on how the Nicklause trail is coming along.

    It is destined to become the most important network of golf courses in Europe. There will be PGA world class tournements, some bearing the name of JN.

    For many keen golfers, Polaris World offers a relatively cheap entry level. To own a property from around 60,000 GBP. and flights from around 50 GBP, there are some nice golfing times to be had with like-minded friends in the sun.

    Polaris are behind schedule on most of ther resorts, not least because of delays in permits and licenses. They have jumped the gun in some cases by building before they should, they have paid the price when work has been stopped.

    The quality of the average apartment is mediocre. But so are their prices. At their upper quality levels, they fall well short. There are far better quality resorts for that money, in better locations with sea views.

    However, to own on one PW resort means you can play cheap golf on all of the 9 courses in the Nicklause trail, that is the single most attractive feature for keen golfers. 2 weeks in Spain playing cheap golf on 9 decent courses is what you keen golfer enjoys.

    When you look at the concept, and couple it with the fact that a new International Airport will be only 20km away and 2 more airports in less than an hours drive, then you will probably understand why it all came about.

    The legal wrangleings at Torre Pacheco and Fuente Alamo will eventually blow over in PW´s favour. 10,000 + construction jobs depend on it.

  • #78422
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Let me guess adonf, you work in the customer relations department of PW do you?
    What a positive contribution you’re making…

  • #78423
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    adonf wrote:
    I rest my case! Point made. Thank you.

    OK, but you still did not tell us in which PW resort do you own property or properties.
    Or are you a relative of Jack Niklaus? :))

  • #78425
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    It is destined to become the most important network of golf courses in Europe. There will be PGA world class tournements, some bearing the name of JN.
    .

    Who told you that? PW people?

    Besides, how many golfers do you think there are in this world? Everybody builds golf course everywhere (Spain, Italy, Turkey, Greece, Morocco, Portugal, even Egypt, Dubai and Saudi Arabia). Do you think there will be enough players? Or golf is bound to take over football as the most popular sport in the world?

  • #78426
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ralita – Can you name another 9 course golf network in Europe?

    I think you will find more people play golf than football.

    I assemble facts that help me form my opinions.

    And lastly, why are you and several other people here so bitter at the world. You seem to feel all must follow your beleifs and views yet you have little time for those who choose to think differently.

    Everyone is different and I would never choose to impose my opinion. Offering advice if asked is a good natured way of living a sociable life, but I personally feel no need to belittle others if their choice is not mine.

    It´s a wonderful world – thankfully – made so by our variable and differing charicteristics.

  • #78427
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    Anonymous
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    Peter Good wrote:
    I think you will find more people play golf than football.
    .

    I am sure this is not true. Can you give me some statistics?

    I do not have anything against PW, I just think the all concept of having resorts in the middle of nowhere is a bad idea.

    They destroyed agricultural land which was much more useful than the land with empty buildings.

  • #78428
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Was thinking the same, and no I’m no agent, just puzzled that some people have nothing better to do than be negative all the time.
    Ralita’s been going on and on about flies in Spain, maybe he could change deodorant or cut the crap!

  • #78429
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @peter Good wrote:
    I think you will find more people play golf than football.
    .

    I am sure this is not true. Can you give me some statistics?

    I do not have anything against PW, I just think the all concept of having resorts in the middle of nowhere is a bad idea.

    They destroyed agricultural land which was much more useful than the land with empty buildings.

    Ralita, very few people play football compared to the amount of people who play golf Though i admit many more watch it! No statistics required there! Though if you do need them I suggest you assemble them yourself, that way you can never call the provider a liar.

    The land around PW resorts is rather scruffy and very poor agricultural land. It has to be pumped full of chemicles which is not good for the environment. The soil was embeded with torn plastic sheeting from derelict greenhouses. Lazy farmers left wrecked cars and delapidated machinery everywhere.

    Thankfully, there is now a different mentality, with vast well maintained green areas and garden centres. Commercial centres offering better paid jobs than the farmers would pay peasant foregn labourers who lived in dangerous and filty derelict property.

    The facilities springing up around the resorts greatly benefit the locals, both in convenience and job availability. I would call it an improvement, however if you prefer it the way it was, then I can understand why you think it´s a shame.

  • #78430
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    Peter Good wrote:

    Ralita, very few people play football compared to the amount of people who play golf Though i admit many more watch it! No statistics required there! Though if you do need them I suggest you assemble them yourself, that way you can never call the provider a liar.

    The land around PW resorts is rather scruffy and very poor agricultural land. It has to be pumped full of chemicles which is not good for the environment. The soil was embeded with torn plastic sheeting from derelict greenhouses. Lazy farmers left wrecked cars and delapidated machinery everywhere.

    Thankfully, there is now a different mentality, with vast well maintained green areas and garden centres. Commercial centres offering better paid jobs than the farmers would pay peasant foregn labourers who lived in dangerous and filty derelict property.

    The facilities springing up around the resorts greatly benefit the locals, both in convenience and job availability. I would call it an improvement, however if you prefer it the way it was, then I can understand why you think it´s a shame.

    The vast well maintained green area take water and the water is quite scarce in Murcia.

    What do you mean by “commercial centers”? The tiny supermarkets in the PW resorts?

    The locals do not have any interactions with the PW resorts, these resorts are very far away from the areas where the local live so they will remain as islands of foreigners.

    The PW resorts are surrounded by agricultural land so the chemical smell is felt by the residents in PW resorts. It seemed I was living in CEntral Valley of California.

    YOu say that there is a network. I was also led to believe that it is very easy to go from La Torre to Mar Menor resorts. BUt it takes at least 20-25 minute, maybe more when there is bigger traffic.

    I have one more question: the roads in La Torre resort were very narrow. This was OK when I went as there also almost nobody there. If they expect the resort to be full and
    people to park their cars on the street, how on Eartch could drive there as there is never pl;ace for 2 cars to go in opposite direction. Was it so difficult for them to build larger roads or to make more off-road parking places?

  • #78431
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    Anonymous
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    I´ll be brief and to the point ralita.

    Not small shops on PW resorts, have you not seen the half dozen or so huge industrial estates recently built employing several thousand people?

    The commercial centres such as Dos mares and the large Parque del Mediterraneo, Nuevo Codominium and several more besides. They will employ several thousands more.

    The water supplying the resots golf courses comes from the waste water from the homes, recycled, though some is irregation water from municipal supplies. However there are less chemicles going into the water tables. Polaris are also paying for new roads and a water desalination plant for use by the municipality as well as PW resorts.

    Thee are some narrow avanues on the resort, just like in the local towns and villages, they also get clogged with traffic in the summer.

    You say the properties are mostly empty, yet you also say the roads are too narrow for all the traffic, I´m not sure which way you want it, I suppose your way again!

    In short, I prefer well maintained golf resorts to be built on barron and disfunctional land as it benefits the poor local residents with both better views and work prospects.

    I know you seem to prefer the old ways and derelict houses but we can at least have differing views, no one needs to change their opinion here.. I joined the debate because I thought it would help the person who started the thread to get a honest opinion, which was my first post. It had pro´s and con´s regarding PW. I still believe that post to reflect the balanced view. It would be a good Idea for you to read it again.

  • #78432
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    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    I´ll be brief and to the point ralita.
    The commercial centres such as Dos mares and the large Parque del Mediterraneo, Nuevo Codominium and several more besides. They will employ several thousands more.

    Thee are some narrow avanues on the resort, just like in the local towns and villages, they also get clogged with traffic in the summer.

    You say the properties are mostly empty, yet you also say the roads are too narrow for all the traffic, I´m not sure which way you want it, I suppose your way again!

    In short, I prefer well maintained golf resorts to be built on barron and disfunctional land as it benefits the poor local residents with both better views and work prospects.

    I know you seem to prefer the old ways and derelict houses but we can at least have differing views, no one needs to change their opinion here.. I joined the debate because I thought it would help the person who started the thread to get a honest opinion, which was my first post. It had pro´s and con´s regarding PW. I still believe that post to reflect the balanced view. It would be a good Idea for you to read it again.

    Dos Mares is 20 km away from resorts so no, they were not built to serve the PW resorts.

    I asked a clear question: why were they cheap and built narrow roads? I thought they build the houses to be populated and not empty…

    But, considering the shabby construction of the villas/apartments, the narrowness of roads is the least of concerns.

    Anyway, I prefer the old ways and derelict houses to resorts like PW.

  • #78433
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Quote ralite – “Dos Mares is 20 km away from resorts so no, they were not built to serve the PW resorts.

    I was also led to believe that it is very easy to go from La Torre to Mar Menor resorts. BUt it takes at least 20-25 minute, maybe more when there is bigger traffic.”



    Dos Mares takes me 10 – 12 minutes from PW and La Torre to Mar Menor resort less than 8 minutes.

    Are you a taxi driver ralita? Remind me never to buy a used car off you!

    I get the feeling you have not visited the area for many years. I suppose you will answer by saying you live several thousand miles away in Torre Pacheco!!

    Must go now, off early for a change.

  • #78434
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    Quote ralite – “Dos Mares is 20 km away from resorts so no, they were not built to serve the PW resorts.

    I was also led to believe that it is very easy to go from La Torre to Mar Menor resorts. BUt it takes at least 20-25 minute, maybe more when there is bigger traffic.”



    Dos Mares takes me 10 – 12 minutes from PW and La Torre to Mar Menor resort less than 8 minutes.

    Are you a taxi driver ralita? Remind me never to buy a used car off you!

    I get the feeling you have not visited the area for many years. I suppose you will answer by saying you live several thousand miles away in Torre Pacheco!!

    Must go now, off early for a change.

    I was there in December, 40 days ago…

    There are about 21 Km to Dos Mares from La Torre, one cannot get in 10 minutes unless one drives 120 km which is not always feasible…

    It is impossible to reach Mar Menor in 8 minutes, that’s not true.

    Anyway, you are trying to sell PW properties so how could I expect from you to bad mouth your “merchandise”?

  • #78440
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “As I am sure I have pointed out before, Shakeel, you’re a friggin idiot.”

    I remember some one else pointing out this to me on the forum. Great that makes two of you.

  • #78441
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    You have to feel sorry for people trying sell rubbish in PW. Third rate course according to golfers!

  • #78443
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    katy wrote:
    You have to feel sorry for people trying sell rubbish in PW. Third rate course according to golfers!

    I guess Peter Good (Mouth) can take you through a long discussion about the quality of grass and sand used in PW resorts and the nice arrangement of palm trees and bushes.
    :))

  • #78445
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    What a thoroughly unpleasant bunch these PW people are. They come and spam up our forum spouting rubbish-
    “there are more golfers than footballers”
    I can’t be bothered to read through the rest of the spam for examples because I don’t want one of your poxy badly built apartments.
    You can spout on about JN til you’re blue in the face -I doubt very much that Spain will be seeing the likes of Tiger Woods in the near future after the abuse that Lewis Hamilton was subjected to.
    They keep talking “in the interests of fairness and balance” but when someone puts an opposing view they become downright insulting.

    Yes well done to the PW agents for reinforcing the stereotypical image of lowlife estate agents and developers in Spain.

  • #78446
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Shakeel
    I dont think your an idiot 🙂
    Only two that think you an idiot ❓ :shock:In my case I have an A to Z listing. 😆 so take it on the chin and carry on.(you get used to it after a while :wink:)
    Your never rude and say what you feel,I consider your honest and O.K
    🙂
    I may not agree with everything you say but there again the majority probably dont agree what what I say, 😯
    Reality is that most are negative and I try to be positive and somewhere in between we hopefully have the realistic BALANCED 😉 result. 🙂

    Frank 8)
    Better get the ole tin hat out as I used that word again 🙄

  • #78447
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    JohnM,
    Don’t be swayed by some of these very cynical people (most of who have never set foot on a Polaris resort).
    It has become very fashionable to bash Polaris, especially on this forum, and if you don’t join the gang you will at the very least be accused of wearing very thick rose tinted glasses (I think its about time that one was put to rest, getting very boring, and if I had a pound for every time I’ve heard it……..).
    You asked a simple question, politely, and came very close to being attacked for having asked it, you are now seen as a polaris world spy, enjoy.

    Some of the criticisms aimed at the resorts are completely unfounded and nothing more than personal preferences.
    If the beach is high on your list then Polaris might not be for you as all the resorts are aimed at golfers, although personally I don’t consider 20-25 minutes such a long trek, and all the resorts have there own supermarkets, not Carrafore but most owners find them adequate.

    I own an apartment on La Torre that has amazing views of the golf course, a large lake, and mountains in the background, which I could never afford to buy anywhere in the UK, I took possession over 18 months ago and still have no regrets.
    There are now several thousand owners of Polaris properties and most I believe are content.

    I hope I have managed to give you a more balanced view of Polaris, not to everyone’s taste, but fortunately we are not all looking for the same thing.

    PS. There is a back entrance at La Torre that offers a short cut to Mar Menor resort through Roldan, 10-15 minutes

  • #78449
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just Frank: What a shame that you don’t think I am an idiot. Otherwise I would have said it takes one to recognise one. I am also saddened that I cant add you to my growing data base of I am an idiot fan club.

    In so far taking on the chin, Yes I have boxed at school.

    Cheers

  • #78453
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Johnm…yes I am a little cynical. I also think you are a (little?) naive. I am a golfer too and I doubt that Jack has ever seen PW. If he has it will have been just for a photo shoot.

    Jack was over last summer and went to all the resorts.

  • #78454
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    New posters are out in force to defend PW aren’t they 🙄 Won’t work, just like your marketing!

  • #78455
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @JohnM wrote:
    web site. Now from those perspectives my impression is that PW offers very eye catching properties, within some picturesque settings…the Jack Nicklaus endorsement does add some weight to their campaigns also.

    La Torre Resort and Mar Menor Resorts are located in settings which are anything but picturesque. They are in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by agricultural land which has lots of flies.

    ralita i went to la manga club this monday and apart from it being near the beach that too middle of nowhere, surrounded by agricultural land ,which also stayed on la torre DID NOT SEE ONE FLY ( that you keep going on about )you must have killed them all with your 4 tins of fly spray or may be they just followed you home.

  • #78456
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Whats this the evening shift 😆

  • #78459
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    lindmark wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    JohnM wrote:
    web site. Now from those perspectives my impression is that PW offers very eye catching properties, within some picturesque settings…the Jack Nicklaus endorsement does add some weight to their campaigns also.

    La Torre Resort and Mar Menor Resorts are located in settings which are anything but picturesque. They are in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by agricultural land which has lots of flies.

    ralita i went to la manga club this monday and apart from it being near the beach that too middle of nowhere, surrounded by agricultural land ,which also stayed on la torre DID NOT SEE ONE FLY ( that you keep going on about )you must have killed them all with your 4 tins of fly spray or may be they just followed you home.

    It’s quite obvious why flies are so attracted to Ralita: he’s so full of shit!!!

  • #78461
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    See, the paid chimps are getting abusive now. You really aren’t doing yourselves any favours.

  • #78462
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well I dared to post on the PW forum once or twice:

    http://www.spainfurniture.net/polaris-world-forum.asp

    Dared even to post some negative comments and got the nick name “Neg Kev” but that was as personal as it got. Some of the PW peeps thought I should not be allowed to post because I was not an owner (just somebody who nearly bought but escaped).

    Must admit though that despite all the negative posts I made (even though I thought they were balanced and factual) I never got some of the vitriol that seems to be flying about here. The PW fanbois are certainly out in force. I would suggest if you are fed up with PW fanbois clogging up this forum, then go over to their forum and do the same.

    Now back to the original post.

    Johnm, why are you thinking of buying? If it is for lifestyle, then what ever floats your boat. If it is for investment, stick the money in the Building Society and rent. Do not believe any BS from agents about rental potential or capital growth.

    Kevin

  • #78463
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    adonf wrote:
    lindmark wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    JohnM wrote:
    web site. Now from those perspectives my impression is that PW offers very eye catching properties, within some picturesque settings…the Jack Nicklaus endorsement does add some weight to their campaigns also.

    La Torre Resort and Mar Menor Resorts are located in settings which are anything but picturesque. They are in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by agricultural land which has lots of flies.

    ralita i went to la manga club this monday and apart from it being near the beach that too middle of nowhere, surrounded by agricultural land ,which also stayed on la torre DID NOT SEE ONE FLY ( that you keep going on about )you must have killed them all with your 4 tins of fly spray or may be they just followed you home.

    It’s quite obvious why flies are so attracted to Ralita: he’s so full of shit!!!

    Because I decided to try to be polite on this forum, I am not going to answer to your attacks, Adolf!

    You know much better than me how many flies are in La Torre resort (millions of them). It really is one place where I shall never go again!

  • #78465
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ralita. you say have been polite on this forum all you seem to do is slag peoples homes off vary polite . did you go on one of the free trips when you stayed at la torre at xmas. you will be so much missed at la torre NOT. why dont you try the new resort over the road from la torre 3 molions may they have no flys and cheap suppermarket for you.

  • #78466
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    lindmark wrote:
    ralita. you say have been polite on this forum all you seem to do is slag peoples homes off vary polite . did you go on one of the free trips when you stayed at la torre at xmas. 😀

    I do not slag anything, I just express my point of view and correct some cstatements made by agents who claim false things.

    Unfortunately I paid for my accomodation in December.

  • #78469
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well,…What can I say……..Mostly unimpressive personal vendettas being played out….. I thought that I’d left all that behind me in the school playground….

    To KW, AND KPW4V…..Thank you for at least attempting to post some constructive and balanced views. The anti PW posters dilute their arguement by becoming involved in personal slagging matches…….Factual evidence, and personal experience would help their claims I feel. They may indeed have every reason to be anti PW, ….and if they have serious issues with PW then I wish them well, and hope they successfully resolve them to their satisfaction. But’s lets stick to the facts.

    To KE & kpw4v,……..My reason for moving to Spain is for lifestyle, weather, fed up with UK, and to try something different before I ‘snuff it’. My primary reason for buying a property would not necessarily be investment ( Although I do not want to lose cash if I was forced to sell it at some future point….I am not in it to speculate, and make a quick buck ) ….
    It would obviously be a full time residence, and not a holiday home, so the space / footprint is important. I don’t think I could live 365 days / year in a holiday apartment.

    I may not purchase a PW property, as I mentioned in a previous post, I expect to be thrown onto the industrial scrapheap in 12 – 18 months, so I am just collecting as much info as possible.

  • #78472
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @JohnM wrote:

    The anti PW posters dilute their arguement by becoming involved in personal slagging matches…….

    John – I find it interesting there is no condemnation from you regarding the pro-PW posters for their rudeness. 🙄
    Personally I think this whole thread is a set up, including you.

    If not, the way you admirably seem to defend PW suggests applying for a job in sales there may be an interesting career move for you.

  • #78473
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Some people have been resorting to insults. You undermine your own arguments when you do this. It’s also not the form in this forum. Differences of opinion are welcome, as is vigorous debate. But If you throw insults, you won’t be around here for long.

    Mark

  • #78476
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    JohnM wrote:
    Well,…What can I say……..Mostly unimpressive personal vendettas being played out….. I thought that I’d left all that behind me in the school playground….

    To KW, AND KPW4V…..Thank you for at least attempting to post some constructive and balanced views. The anti PW posters dilute their arguement by becoming involved in personal slagging matches……..

    I thought you have genuine interest in PW but I now realize you have vested interest… The proPW are the guys who offend the others.

    Read all the messages, select the offensive ones and then you should apologize. But as I said, I am almost convinced you set this this thread up to promote PW, you only chose the wrong Forum to do that.

  • #78477
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie,..I will not become involved in the petty insults and criticisms expressed by ‘some’ people.

    Suffice to say,…personal criticism and insults from anyone ( regardless of their opinion of PW ) is totally out of order, and ‘yes’ some pro PW posters made some derogatory comments also….they are wrong to do this, and to be honest, it reduced the value of their arguement.

    You are entitled to your opinion,….but FYI,…you’re absolutely incorrect about this mail being a ‘set up’. Actually, I beginning to regret posting the question…….all I wanted was to hear from happy PW customers, and from unhappy customers,…not start off a slagging match.

  • #78479
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thank you Mark. If this forum gets used for childish/aggressive personal attacks than it will not only undermine the standing of the forum it will put people off from logging in.

  • #78508
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    JohnM- hate to say it but I told you so.
    You made your first mistake when you asked for information about Polaris, your second and final gaff was having read all that was offered you never condemned the devils spawn of a company back to hell from whence it came, no matter what you say you will now and forever more be seen on this forum as a Polaris agent, as most likely am I.
    Best thing to do is, like me, take it down the pub, share it with your mates and have a good laugh.

    I wish you all the best for the future, where ever it takes you.

  • #78517
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    kpw4v wrote:
    Well I dared to post on the PW forum once or twice:
    negative
    http://www.spainfurniture.net/polaris-world-forum.asp

    Dared even to post some negative comments and got the nick name “Neg Kev” but that was as personal as it got. Some of the PW peeps thought I should not be allowed to post because I was not an owner (just somebody who nearly bought but escaped).

    Must admit though that despite all the negative posts I made (even though I thought they were balanced and factual) I never got some of the vitriol that seems to be flying about here. The PW fanbois are certainly out in force. I would suggest if you are fed up with PW fanbois clogging up this forum, then go over to their forum and do the same.

    Now back to the original post.

    Johnm, why are you thinking of buying? If it is for lifestyle, then what ever floats your boat. If it is for investment, stick the money in the Building Society and rent. Do not believe any BS from agents about rental potential or capital growth.

    Kevin ( negative kev ) you say you dared to post on the PW forum once or twice in fact you made 126 post not bad for a man that bought a log cabin in the lakes , can you not find a forum that covers log cabins.

  • #78521
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @lindmark wrote:

    Kevin ( negative kev ) you say you dared to post on the PW forum once or twice in fact you made 126 post not bad for a man that bought a log cabin in the lakes , can you not find a forum that covers log cabins.

    Lindmark, if you are going to have a pop at me, at least get my PW Forum nickname correct. It was “Neg Kev”. “Negative Kev” does not have the same ring.

    Now I will ask you and any other PW fanboi, and any other poster that has resorted to personal comments. What has the number of posts I have made or the fact that I have a log cabin (lodge actually) got to do with the price of fish? I would also challenge you to find a single one of my 126 posts that have resorted to personal comments. That did not stop people having a go at me for daring to state (in my opinion) some home truths and explaining why I chose not invest in PW. I also chose to withdraw from the Costa Esuri development in Costa De La Luz. The reason for not buying in Spain is simple, in my humble opinion it is a very poor financial investement. I just did not see how I could make any money from PW or Costa Esuri either from rentals or capital growth. To date I have been proved right. As I have said all along, if it is a lifestyle investment, then what ever floats your boat, but as a pure financial investment, PW sucks. Despite the fact that there has been no capital growth for the last 3 years on PW, and people struggle to rent out even at less than £200 per week peak season – there are still agents punting out the lies about capital growth and rental income, and sucking innocent people into a poor investment. Just this week I have had two e-mails inviting me on viewing trips to PW and promising the earth.

    Now hopefully, if we can all keep the personal stuff to ourselves, this and other forums can actually serve a usefull purpose – and that is to provide people with both sides of an argument and enable them to come to an informed decision.

    Kevin

  • #78522
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    like i said can you not find any LOG cabin forums ,why do you keep coming on SPANISH PROPERTY forums telling people they have all made a big mistake buying in spain.

  • #78523
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Kev you say that this week I have had two e-mails inviting me on viewing trips to PW and promising the earth,did you get any from from jonathan at your spanish home (.i bet you did not ) .

  • #78525
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @lindmark wrote:

    like i said can you not find any LOG cabin forums ,why do you keep coming on SPANISH PROPERTY forums telling people they have all made a big mistake buying in spain.

    Because it is a forum and last time I checked we still upheld the principle of free speech and the fundamental human right to express an opinion.

    If you cared to check, I never said that “people” have made a big mistake buying in Spain. Many property speculators have made a big mistake, and others have been misled into making a mistake by agents. But I have never made the claim that people who buy in Spain for the lifestyle have made a mistake.

    Kevin

  • #78527
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Let’s face it -if you have bought a PW property in Spain since 2003 it has had a negative effect on your net worth.
    First of all you have lost roughly 10% of the purchase price to the tax authorities and lawyers.
    Secondly you have lost the value of commission that the agent earnt.
    Thirdly you have lost out to inflation, which since 2003 will have knocked 20-30% off the REAL VALUE of the property.
    Fourthly, you will have lost out in the bearish spanish property market which will have pushed the ABSOLUTE VALUE of your property lower.
    Fifthly you will have been paying property tax each year.
    Finally, you will have costs of wear and tear which can be quite considerable on the standard spanish poorly built construction.

    As an investment buying PW is an abysmal choice -if you had bought in 2003/2004 you would have easily lost 40 – 50% of the value of your original “investment”.

  • #78529
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    forestfire

    i think that’s the case for many developments. Still a lot of ‘rose coloured spectacles’ about. I don’t blame people for trying to be positive, and even more so if their living or wealth depends on it, but however negative at present, i think in the long term ‘keeping it real’ will benifit all, apart from the bad guys trying to hide the truth for their own selfish reasons.

  • #78542
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @forestfire wrote:

    As an investment buying PW is an abysmal choice -if you had bought in 2003/2004 you would have easily lost 40 – 50% of the value of your original “investment”.

    Firstly, I would like to say that I am no great fan of Polaris World. I do sell them from time to time. The majority of their properties are too dense. Their apartments on a dull cloudy day can resemble an eastern European tenement block.

    However, their green areas are quite well laid out, well planted and maintained. On a sunny day their resorts can seem like a small Oasis compared to the rather scruffy countryside outide of their boundaries.

    The Golf Club-houses and restaurants serve reasonably priced food and some of it is a refreshing change when compared to the rather unapitising Spanish counterparts in local cities and towns.

    PW, are not at all good at snagging, they are a frustrating buch to deal with at best of times, and as agents representing our clients I have had some real ding-dongs with them all the way to the top. I once thumped the desk of a manager there who was shrugging his shoulders. That is not my usual behaviour, but I do get his attention now!

    When a possible buyer comes into my showroom and asks for PW I will show them the product. I rarely introduce it unless asked.

    However, when someone asks for a property on a golf resort for 100,000 GBP, there is nothing else at that price I can show them other than PW.

    After I have taken them to PW HQ, I tell them to forget what the PW salesman told them and listen to me. After the warts and all chat it´s up to them as to wether they wish to go on to see the actual resorts. About 50% of clients usually decline.

    The PW image was unique to the Murcia area back in 2001 when they first began operations. Firstly they presented their product in glossy brochures, with CD´s and they visited me. No other developer here did that at the time, instead, I had to go into their often shabby offices full of cigarette smoke and beg for a tatty hand drawn photocopy of a feint floorplan. There were no artist impression on how the house would look yet they expected buyers to proceed anyway. It was a terribe way for me and any other agent to have to sell a property.

    PW built their excellent HQ and I have to say it is an excellent place in which to show models of developments and individual properties with pleasant staff, no hard sell from PW and plenty of coffee and buscuits. Far more civilised than what had gone before. Developers treating my clients with respect was new to our region back then. Soon many of the exhisting developers/builders had to up their game or be put out of business by PW. I have to admit they raised the standard of presentation of nearly all their competitors ,and life for all, agents and buyers alike is better for it.

    Again I re-iterate, after saying the above, it does not make their properties any better quality, they have that niche in the golf property market and fill it better than anything before.

    To sum up, they are offering people, not just British, a chance to own a holiday apartment at less than 100,000 GBP. Here in Murcia, Costa Calida that is difficult to beat. If you want quality golf property at the top end of the market, there are plenty of legal developments that are miles better than Polaris World.

    I don´t see myself as a “fanboy” or “paid chimp”!

  • #78568
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    forestfire wrote:
    PW built their excellent HQ and I have to say it is an excellent place in which to show models of developments and individual properties with pleasant staff, no hard sell from PW and plenty of coffee and buscuits. Far more civilised than what had gone before. Developers treating my clients with respect was new to our region back then. Soon many of the exhisting developers/builders had to up their game or be put out of business by PW. I have to admit they raised the standard of presentation of nearly all their competitors ,and life for all, agents and buyers alike is better for it.
    “!

    I prefer worse HQ and no brochure but lower prices with a better quality/price ratio.

    To print brochures cost money and the price is paid by the purchaser.

  • #78569
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @peter Good wrote:
    @forestfire wrote:

    PW built their excellent HQ and I have to say it is an excellent place in which to show models of developments and individual properties with pleasant staff, no hard sell from PW and plenty of coffee and buscuits. Far more civilised than what had gone before. Developers treating my clients with respect was new to our region back then. Soon many of the exhisting developers/builders had to up their game or be put out of business by PW. I have to admit they raised the standard of presentation of nearly all their competitors ,and life for all, agents and buyers alike is better for it.
    “!

    I prefer worse HQ and no brochure but lower prices with a better quality/price ratio.

    To print brochures cost money and the price is paid by the purchaser.

    Many people have bought blind in dingy darkened rooms ralita, sadly they are paying the price for this.

  • #78570
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    To print brochures cost money…..

    So does having a smart HQ with lots of lovely models of the development.
    Been there, done that but didn’t get a building, let alone a t-shirt.
    Was all damn impressive at the time, pity about the dodgy building licence.

  • #78571
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    Peter Good wrote:
    forestfire wrote:
    PW built their excellent HQ and I have to say it is an excellent place in which to show models of developments and individual properties with pleasant staff, no hard sell from PW and plenty of coffee and buscuits. Far more civilised than what had gone before. Developers treating my clients with respect was new to our region back then. Soon many of the exhisting developers/builders had to up their game or be put out of business by PW. I have to admit they raised the standard of presentation of nearly all their competitors ,and life for all, agents and buyers alike is better for it.
    “!

    I prefer worse HQ and no brochure but lower prices with a better quality/price ratio.

    To print brochures cost money and the price is paid by the purchaser.

    Many people have bought blind in dingy darkened rooms ralita, sadly they are paying the price for this.

    I guess in Spain (and almost anywhere else except UK,Germany, USA and other 3-4 countries), one can expect to have bad experiences when buying off-plan.

    Maybe now there are enough off-plan houses to satisfy all the tastes and wallets and people will be able to avoid buying dreams…

  • #78572
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    @ralita wrote:
    quote]

    pity about the dodgy building licence.

    I think there have been several dodgy licenses for PW resorts. Condado de Alhama was the highest profile case.

    The local town hall squabbled for several months over that one. PW had 2 km of flags in situ and several thousand palm trees in at the time (though they never built anything)

    One councillor was the objector. PW waited and waited but she held out. The local council assumed PW would hang around forever, unfortunatly they didn´t. One day a fleet of trucks arrived and removed every trace of them being there. PW put out a press statement saying they will withdraw from the area and build elsewhere with the loss of 10,000 jobs and worse, local merchants and suppliers will go bust with further thousands of jobs lost.

    The lady councillor was removed rather swiftly and had to leave the area as local residents would see most of their family and children out of jobs.

    PW generate a huge amount of work availability not only through themselves as employers but Air-con, pool suppliers, window and door suppliers etc. Millions of Euros have gone into the local communities in every sector from Garden Centres to furnitue suppliers right down to supermarkets with 20-30 km.

    Theproject was quickly approved at the highest level and PW are now building there.

    I suppose the moral is, a company the size of PW will eventually get their formal approvals through it´s hold over the local and provincial economy.

    There are several major player in the UK with the same hold over local authorites and if the local authorites won´t budge, the goverment will make them for financial and employment boosts.

    I once lived in Tony Blairs´ constituency of Sedgefield. A long proposed industrail estate that had long been refused planning happened over-night when his Tonyness came to power.

  • #78573
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    @peter Good wrote:
    @ralita wrote:
    @peter Good wrote:
    @forestfire wrote:

    Maybe now there are enough off-plan houses to satisfy all the tastes and wallets and people will be able to avoid buying dreams…

    Ralita, I really honestly hope that does happen. We are in a missively high over-supply situation. No need to bring out new off-plan projects for possibly 5 – 10 years hopefully more.

    If things were to settle down for a good space of time and people reflect on the past 10 years, we may see a better and enviromentally more sustainable growth plan appear.

    Well I hope so anyway, and probably, judging by your post, you would be pleased to see the end of the madness.

  • #78574
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Peter Good wrote:
    Ralita, I really honestly hope that does happen. We are in a missively high over-supply situation. No need to bring out new off-plan projects for possibly 5 – 10 years hopefully more.

    If things were to settle down for a good space of time and people reflect on the past 10 years, we may see a better and enviromentally more sustainable growth plan appear.

    Well I hope so anyway, and probably, judging by your post, you would be pleased to see the end of the madness.

    I would be more than pleased.

    I was almost conned in buying off-plan two years ago in “up-and-coming” countries like
    Morocco or Egypt. I was lucky to escape the tentacles of sharks like M*I or others.

  • #78575
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    You made a good decision ralita. I must say though, property has never been a bad investment, especially if it is your primary home.

    I have been looking for a well priced second property soley for investment. However, I have decided to use some of the money to improve my main home. At least I will get the benefit of more pleasant and comfortable living with immediate effect and over time it will have increased the value of my home.

  • #78599
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @peter Good wrote:

    However, to own on one PW resort means you can play cheap golf on all of the 9 courses in the Nicklause trail, that is the single most attractive feature for keen golfers. 2 weeks in Spain playing cheap golf on 9 decent courses is what you keen golfer enjoys.

    I understood from this thread on the other Polaris World forum:
    http://polaris-world-forum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=100
    that any guest staying at a Polaris World property could play at the ‘Residents’ rates (about a 35% discount to the ‘Public’ rates). So there’s no need to be an owner to get decent golf rates for the 2 week holidays. That thread also shows that PW have without much warning removed the annual golf membership for owners/residents and replaced it with a 25 year right costing a high lump sum – a lot of unhappy golf members at PW resorts.

  • #78606
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Fiasco, there was mention of this under the old regime back in 2004, about the time of handovers on MM1.

    It stuck in my mind because it was indicated that a 12 or 15 year membership right would probably cost 15,000 Euros.

    I thought it was excessive at the time, though this current offer is over the top considering only one third of the trail is playable.

    The right to transfer the share is nothing much either as the value will decline as the years tick by.

    The fact that there will be no easy terms or portional payments offered is quite wrong. It´s easy to see this is a cash flow crisis resolution sold as an opportunity for even cheaper golf.

    Those who have the money and pay it will probably feel the benefit. For those playing on a round by round basis, they will find PW is still cheaper to play on than most other established courses but now, not by any considerable margine.

    I don´t like the scheme much, but as I said at the beggining, something like this was mooted nearly 4 years before. I always refered to it in my warts and all talk to potential buyers, I´m pleased I did.

  • #78612
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well i’ve read some cobblers on this thread.

    Firstly, i’ve brought on polaris and before I go any further buying with Polaris is not a smooth process, delays, certain resorts eg Hacienda and El Val are suffering with lack of facilities, you’re not going to make money here if you have brought off plan (ignoring exchange rate movements), the resorts are split hence you end up a housing estate next to a golf course not a fully functioning ‘resort’ eg La Manga Club and the ‘inner’ Murcia area is not great, in fact the hole of Murcia (I personally hate the La Manga strip area) is not what I would call scenic. I’m not going to go into the legalities of all this here, its been said before.

    That said, Polaris have done a good job with the individual resorts in terms of design etc and I have spent some time on La Torre, its a nice ‘resort’ , the facilities are good, its a bit ‘dense’ but not significantly so and generally has a reasonable feel to it, the facilities are there and I think they have done a good job. The resorts have a different feel hence if you want somewhere less dense then try Hacienda (although at the moment facilities are somewhere lacking). I would like to see cheaper golf for the residents but we will see.

    Its still early days and it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

  • #78619
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    The golf “concessions” offered to property purchasers always disappear when most of the properties are sold or the developer runs into difficulties. It has been happening over twenty years. In the heady days of the 80’s some were sold with golf shares, meant nothing really if the course was not financially sound and also the shares were non-transferable. In some cases the “shares” were not really shares. Many investors were led to believe they could play golf for free or pass it on to their renters not so.

  • #78622
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    The golf “concessions” offered to property purchasers always disappear when most of the properties are sold or the developer runs into difficulties. It has been happening over twenty years. In the heady days of the 80’s some were sold with golf shares, meant nothing really if the course was not financially sound and also the shares were non-transferable. In some cases the “shares” were not really shares. Many investors were led to believe they could play golf for free or pass it on to their renters not so.

    Its not a case of free golf just that they appear to be going the ultra expensive debenture route to bring in cash up front, this is not an option for many and as such leads to questions where it will ultimately leave everyone else.

  • #78624
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I expect there are a number of owners (with very deep pockets) who will buy the debentures, but once sales start to fall my guess is Polaris will revert back to yearly memberships.

  • #78625
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Another interesting and large article about the case of Polaris World and the councils of Torre Pacheco and Fuente Alamo on the trials:

    http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Todo/tiene/precio/Facundo/Armero/elpepunac/20080210elpepinac_19/Tes

    The article is all about the power of Facundo Armero, the ex-manager of Polaris World, and his tentacles along all the politicians in the Region of Murcia.

    This is going to be a great scandal.

  • #78626
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Threats, even of death to the journalist who started the investigations about Polaris World in Torre Pacheco:

    http://www.noticiasdemurcia.es/fichanoticia.php?Not_Id=149&Sec=1

  • #78930
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Having first hand knowledge of the PW resorts, having inspected a number of properties in these. and other local golf resorts I would like to add my coments which I hope will be seen as balanced

    Many of the comments regarding the location, the general average quality of the resorts and PW promises are correct but fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the concept and they have created mini towns where certainly for LA Torre and Mar Menor you can survive without needing to go offsite

    As far as Hacienda Requelme and El Valle are concerned there are still big questions over the actual facilities that will be available and when they will be built, not my comments just what can be seen on other forums and the recent feature on BBC Watchdog

    The roads that connect the resorts, apart for the main C3301 and AP7, are narrow, quite porly lit and can be dangerous at night especially the roads to HR through Sucina and Valle De Sol, agian 20 – 25 mins driving time

    To get the the 3 largest commercial centres, Dos Mares, 20 minutes, Cartagena, 30 mins, Murcia Neuvo Condinium 35 mins, driving at normal speeds. Beaches again 15 minutes to Lo Pagan

    I believe that the key however before making a buying decision is to look at all of the costs involved in maintaining the property and I mean really the community fees which you have to pay before making a single €, and over which you have little control. It´s a bit like a computer printer where the cost of the units are cheap and most revenues come from the ink cartridges.

    There are now so many golf resorts in this area that developers have started discounting fo key ready properties

    In the Torrevieja area PW have just erected billboards in English advertising for sales people, this is a first

    Again on another forum prople are complaining about an increase of 46% for 2008 in the community fees taking the charge, for a 2 bedroom townhouse to €590 per quarter.

    Taking into account keyholding cleaning, electricity water etc you will therreore require a rental income of over €5000 per year just to cover running costs, without any mortgage interest

    There is a glut of rental property in this area unfortunatley with some desperate renters who will drive down the market price and there are rentals being advertised for PW La Torr at 100 pounds per week for a property sleeping 6 people

    I would therefore suggest that when buying the cost of the property, the cheap golf, and the location are only an few of the things you should consider but please remember to get a written indication of the ongoing community fees as well

    As the market becomes more difficult and the exchange rate is poor we are seeing more people that are simply loosing their deposits rather than completing on properties and lots more distressed sellers offering their properties for sale at well under contract value, discounts of in excess of €50k

    The lifestyle, the people the weather and the standard of living is still a good reason to live in Spain and if you buy well, although you cannot expect to make a large profit anymore, you can buy good quality well priced properties to live in and enjoy and it is not all doom and gloom

  • #79016
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @inspectahomespain wrote:

    Having first hand knowledge of the PW resorts, having inspected a number of properties in these. and other local golf resorts I would like to add my coments which I hope will be seen as balanced

    Many of the comments regarding the location, the general average quality of the resorts and PW promises are correct but fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the concept and they have created mini towns where certainly for LA Torre and Mar Menor you can survive without needing to go offsite

    As far as Hacienda Requelme and El Valle are concerned there are still big questions over the actual facilities that will be available and when they will be built, not my comments just what can be seen on other forums and the recent feature on BBC Watchdog

    The roads that connect the resorts, apart for the main C3301 and AP7, are narrow, quite porly lit and can be dangerous at night especially the roads to HR through Sucina and Valle De Sol, agian 20 – 25 mins driving time

    To get the the 3 largest commercial centres, Dos Mares, 20 minutes, Cartagena, 30 mins, Murcia Neuvo Condinium 35 mins, driving at normal speeds. Beaches again 15 minutes to Lo Pagan

    I believe that the key however before making a buying decision is to look at all of the costs involved in maintaining the property and I mean really the community fees which you have to pay before making a single €, and over which you have little control. It´s a bit like a computer printer where the cost of the units are cheap and most revenues come from the ink cartridges.

    There are now so many golf resorts in this area that developers have started discounting fo key ready properties

    In the Torrevieja area PW have just erected billboards in English advertising for sales people, this is a first

    Again on another forum prople are complaining about an increase of 46% for 2008 in the community fees taking the charge, for a 2 bedroom townhouse to €590 per quarter.

    Taking into account keyholding cleaning, electricity water etc you will therreore require a rental income of over €5000 per year just to cover running costs, without any mortgage interest

    There is a glut of rental property in this area unfortunatley with some desperate renters who will drive down the market price and there are rentals being advertised for PW La Torr at 100 pounds per week for a property sleeping 6 people

    I would therefore suggest that when buying the cost of the property, the cheap golf, and the location are only an few of the things you should consider but please remember to get a written indication of the ongoing community fees as well

    As the market becomes more difficult and the exchange rate is poor we are seeing more people that are simply loosing their deposits rather than completing on properties and lots more distressed sellers offering their properties for sale at well under contract value, discounts of in excess of €50k

    The lifestyle, the people the weather and the standard of living is still a good reason to live in Spain and if you buy well, although you cannot expect to make a large profit anymore, you can buy good quality well priced properties to live in and enjoy and it is not all doom and gloom

    I’ve seen inspectahomespain knocking around on other forums, this is a very good and balanced view of PolarisWorld. PW is not a place to make money more a lifestyle question for those with a few bob (quite a few bob).

  • #79050
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Article on the front page of the local free rag “The Post” covers Calpe to Torrevieja area more or less and is a sister paper to the Costa Blanca News.

    Apparently PW brought 150 Brits to Murcia airport last Saturday for a 24 hour inspection flight , in a plane bearing the Real Madrid football club logo. The punters travelled business class and were given tours of the various resorts and complexes . PW is hoping to bring 5.000 potential home owners from all over Europe over the next couple of months.

    PW is using the “La saeta” plane which they have sponsored especially for these inspection flights. This was the first time the company had chartered a full plane to bring potential buyers to the area.

    It will not have come cheap but if they sell to 1% of the people I suppose it will have been worth it.

  • #79051
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have had invites to three flights already, Gatwick, Manchester and Glasgow. Not bothered with any of them to be honest. I won’t get sucked in again

    Kevin

  • #79069
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I was on the inspection trip last weekend with my wife. We left Gatwick at 9.30 Saturday for Murcia and we were met at the airport by three Polaris coaches and staff. After a very liberal welcome reception at the Intercontinental Hotel they bused us around the various developments until about 7.30. They put us up at a superb Hotel in Murcia with really excellent dinner. An early start the next day at 8.15 more visits presentations food, drinks all day finishing with a couple of hours at Polaris HQ and tapas.
    Departed Murcia arrived back at Gatwick about 5.30pm.
    A full on weekend, we saw a huge amount and learnt a lot more. Some people definitely signed up for properties there and then.
    What really surprised me was how restrained was the sales pitch. No hard sell, just an eager willingness to show us as much as possible and answer questions. I had no idea just how large the Polaris operation is and the scale of the building. I left feeling very impressed with the company and the operation and i wouldn’t hesitate to recommend this trip to anyone who is interested in Polaris.
    As an avid reader of this and other Polaris forums and a potential buyer I found this trip very useful.

  • #79079
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Do you think the liberal flow of alcohol had anything to do with peoples decision to sign up there and then?

  • #79102
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hmmmm!

    With all the uncertainty in the market coupled with the questions now being asked about Polaris World and others like them, surely it would be sensible to hold off for now?

    Even if one was currently intending in moving out to Spain permanently, a lot of good advice has been posted suggesting that it would be much, much more sensible to rent a property over the next couple of years, and take advantage of the falling prices at the likes of PW, which are surely going to fall much further.

    There’s nothing wrong with an inspection visit so long as you have your wits about you. Do your homework and don’t sign up whilst you’re there!!!

    Of course: Location, Location, Location, …but also, Timing, Timing, Timing !!

  • #79105
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Sun Seeker wrote:
    Hmmmm!

    With all the uncertainty in the market coupled with the questions now being asked about Polaris World and others like them, surely it would be sensible to hold off for now?

    Even if one was currently intending in moving out to Spain permanently, a lot of good advice has been posted suggesting that it would be much, much more sensible to rent a property over the next couple of years, and take advantage of the falling prices at the likes of PW, which are surely going to fall much further.

    There’s nothing wrong with an inspection visit so long as you have your wits about you. Do your homework and don’t sign up whilst you’re there!!!

    Of course: Location, Location, Location, …but also, Timing, Timing, Timing !!

    When will people ever learn,I am not saying anything against PW as I know little about them, but someone who buys on a 24 hour inspection flight must have escaped from Broadmore or a similar institution.

    I may be cynical but one or two of the “buyers” might have been plants, to encourage buyers.
    Crowd frenzy is a useful sales tack.

    Am sure I am just being cynical.

  • #79106
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    135, if it is not you being cynical, it could be that as I have mentioned before, the developer needs the fools to sell to before they can get away with what has been reported, not only on a froum such as this, but the media in UK.
    Until now, ignorance of what has gone on and what can happen was always offered as an excuse. Now no more, the punters must also take some blame if they end up with problems.

  • #79111
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    135
    it was hardly a buying frenzy, only obvious by meetings within closed door offices by people who had previously said they might buy and sales certainly weren’t referred to or broadcast by Polaris.
    Plants there may well have been in the crowd and I certainly suspected one or two people of being such, I am pretty sure one was chatting to us for a time at the opening reception and we were being assessed as to our situation and expectations. Shortly after that, we were allocated a coach and properties to view. On the other hand there are plenty of very naive people out there and you need only read one of the Polaris owners forums to appreciate how of them bought with little or no research and still have expectations of high rental returns, there will still be many of those people around.

  • #79119
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    One interesting factor is that Polaris are carpeting the area with large advertisments on bill boards and full pages in the local English press, looking for English sales people

    Not sure if it is because of the planned weekend trips or because they want brits to sell to brits

    I was on La Torre over the weekend and say a dramatic increase in the number of for sale boards on townhouses & villas and talking to a few friends who want to sell, they told me that it was a direct result of the massive increase in community fees

    They recently tried to stop people putting up for sale boards

    One guy was telling me that because he has a 3 floor townhouse his annual fees were €900 more per year tha his neighbour with 2 floors, something to do with the living space calculation

    If you are thinking about buying on PW there are plenty of long and short term rentals available, form as little as 300 pounds per month for a 2 bed apartment

  • #79121
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Years ago a new law came in banning billboards , the only one allowed to stay was the well endowed black bull advertising brandy. Gradually though new billboards have appeared, there was a report in one of the local Spanish papers that a new clampdown was planned and that advertisers would suffer heavy fines. Have n´t heard anymore about this,but as far as I know these billboards are illegal.

    ¡¡No problema!!

  • #79122
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In the past week I have noticed the PP have put them up everywhere. I hope they change the law if they become the governing party on March 9th, or they will have to arrest themselves immediately! 😳

  • #79123
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    something to do with the living space calculation

    I would read the Horizontal Property Act … i would think it important to those either owning a property or making a living in property.

    The duties of unit owners are–

    to contribute, according to the assessment quota set forth in the master deed or to what may have been specially established, to the overall expenses for the appropriate maintenance of the building, its services, charges and any responsibilities that cannot be allocated individually.

    I assume they have seen the master deed and therefore know what their quota is, in any case it should be on their own property deed?

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