property transfer tax ( lanzarote)

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This topic contains 25 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 5 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #56028
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    Anonymous
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    Has anyone experienced buying a property, paying the transfer tax, then getting stung for more 4 years later????

    I bought a holiday property in 2007 in lanzarote, and paid the relevant transfer tax on it.

    This monday 20/12/10, I received a letter from the ayuntimento informing me that they disagree with price that I paid, and they estimate it to have been worth more, they based it on sales that year with the same square footage as my apartment and given me a HUGE bill for the difference of what I paid and what they believe the worth to be.

    I have gone back to the tax/notary company that dealt with the sale, they have NOW informed me that the ayuntimento can make this decision as long as it is within 4 years of the purchase ( it is within it by 3 years 10 mths)

    How can they state that all apartments are worth the same regardless of condition??? my apartment was in a dire condition and I have spent a fortune renovating it over the years.

    I have been told that this is going to be hard to fight and may cost me a min of 1000 euros and then most likely still have to pay the bill as well.

    I feel like I have been legally mugged! 👿 , is this a new way for the goverment to raise money in thier economic crisis?!!!!
    Has anyone got any advice or experience on this please? 😥

    Hanna Barbera

  • #102008
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Welcome to Spain.

  • #102017
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    It happens all the time….we had the same problem in 1995. Our letter came about 6 months after purchase. Yes you can appeal but never heard of anyone winning an appeal.

  • #102018
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thats what I have been told, seems we should’nt bother with the estate agents in spain, we should just find a property we like then go to the ayuntimento and ask them how much should I pay, that way at least you can take the tax into consideration when you make your offer!

  • #102019
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    if you bother to get a decent lawyer when you buy they can tell you in a instant if there will be a “complementaria” !!!!!! stop blaming Spain and start enjoying life here like the 1.000,000 foreigners –

  • #102020
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @UBEDA wrote:

    stop blaming Spain ….

    Yeah, hanna barbera – stop blaming Spain.

    It’s really all that blimmin’ global warming causing these little Spanish ‘wonders’.

  • #102022
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Find a decent lawyer. haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  • #102023
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    It happens all the time….we had the same problem in 1995. Our letter came about 6 months after purchase. Yes you can appeal but never heard of anyone winning an appeal.

    Thanks Katy, Luckily I used a very good lawyer/notaria when I bought it, he thinks he can fight it so I am leaving it his hands now, maybe I will be the lucky one who gets it reversed 🙂

  • #102024
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have purchased 6 properties and sold 5 in spain and never had a problem, BUT, I did have a laywer do the whole process for me. I must have been one of the lucky ones! But don’t believe all the horror stories, there is a VERY small percentage of things going wrong when you work out how many people have successfully purchased and sold in Spain over the years. It’s a shame that all you get to hear on forums is the horror stories, but I suppose that is what most forums are for…Let’s face it if things go well, you don’t feel the need to plaster it on a forum! I hope you get is sorted, good luck!

  • #102025
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Its not a question of things going wrong or right. What matters is the working of the system & a system that should be is 95% proof. If there are weekness in the system, The system should be looked at and the weaknesses closed if this cannot be done why should the innocent buyer/seller be penalised. .
    Why should the Council come to the seller/buyer. They should be going after the Notary or others involved. The price that is stated on the Notary sale documents sholud be the gospel.

  • #102026
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @ethnatkev wrote:

    I have purchased 6 properties and sold 5 in spain and never had a problem, BUT, I did have a laywer do the whole process for me. I must have been one of the lucky ones! But don’t believe all the horror stories, there is a VERY small percentage of things going wrong when you work out how many people have successfully purchased and sold in Spain over the years. It’s a shame that all you get to hear on forums is the horror stories, but I suppose that is what most forums are for…Let’s face it if things go well, you don’t feel the need to plaster it on a forum! I hope you get is sorted, good luck!

    I never had a problem either and I do count myself one of the lucky ones. I do believe all the horror stories because I have them from valid sources and some people I know personally. I wouldn’t like to guestimate the “small percentage” affected……About 12,000 illegal properties in Cadíz area, 20000+ in Axarqia, some in Murcia and then the ones caught up in the Valencia land grab….depends on your perception as small 🙄 Maybe over the years small but what happened during the boom years 2000 onwards was different.

  • #102027
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    let’s not confuse illegal properties with this topic; all i’m saying is that your lawyer (if you bother to get one) can tell in a new york minute what the minimum amount the town hall will accept as a purchase price to be declared BEFORE YOU BUY- quite simple if you understand conveyancing in Spain………………

    illegal properties ?? well that’s another subject – and a problem that started in the late fifties/ early sixties in Catalunya/ Canaries/ Balearics etc – mostly sold by northern Europeans to their countrymen !!!!!!

  • #102028
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @UBEDA wrote:

    let’s not confuse illegal properties with this topic; all i’m saying is that your lawyer (if you bother to get one) can tell in a new york minute what the minimum amount the town hall will accept as a purchase price to be declared BEFORE YOU BUY- quite simple if you understand conveyancing in Spain………………

    illegal properties ?? well that’s another subject – and a problem that started in the late fifties/ early sixties in Catalunya/ Canaries/ Balearics etc – mostly sold by northern Europeans to their countrymen !!!!!!

    My Lawyer is noted as one of the best in this field that I used for my purchase, and he is as surprised as me over the bill, he has also told me that in his 25 years of practice, it is the 1st time he has known a bill to be been sent out 3 years and 10mths after the sale.

    Had I not used such a reputable lawyer, paid the correct amount on what I purchased, or had I tried to scam my purchase figure in anyway I would not be on this forum.

  • #102029
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    Anonymous
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    @shakeel wrote:

    Its not a question of things going wrong or right. What matters is the working of the system & a system that should be is 95% proof. If there are weekness in the system, The system should be looked at and the weaknesses closed if this cannot be done why should the innocent buyer/seller be penalised. .
    Why should the Council come to the seller/buyer. They should be going after the Notary or others involved. The price that is stated on the Notary sale documents sholud be the gospel.

    here here!

  • #102030
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “understand conveyancing in Spain……………… ” Ubeda perhaps you can enlighten us. ??? Considering no Spaniard I know has ever used a lawyer for conveyancing.

  • #102032
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Obviously when I refer to it as a small percentage, if you are in that small percentage, it must be a living nightmare. So I do agree in that, that sort of thing should not happen to 1 person let alone in the thousands. But I was not referring to the land grab issues alone. Generally speaking I have not heard many a good word spoken about Spain on this forum when it comes to purchasing a property. I am merely pointing out that these issues do not affect everyone and if you do your homework and get a reputable laywer,as Hanna Barbera has, as we all do in the uk when purchasing a property, then these things would not happen in the thousands. You may get a dodgy lawyer but not all of them are. To Katy, I bet you know lots of people who have not had problems also. Spain do need to sort their act out, that goes without saying. Once bitten twice shy and now things have come to light, they will be sorting these issues out. And I am sure no brit would be purchasing a property in Spain without a lawyer unless they are mad! Ultimately, if you are going to buy in ANY country abroad, I think it would be utter madness to just trust an estate agent anyway, I still can’t understand why people don’t use laywers in Spain. Here lies the main problem, we sign on the dotted line after all. To anyone considering purchasing in Spain: Do your homework and get a legal lawyer, as you would in the UK.

  • #102034
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Most people did have a Lawyer if you read back through the forum. As for Hannah’s Lawyer, as Ubeda says if he was reputable he should have warned her about the extra tax.

  • #102036
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    so you are saying that all these thousands of people who have been “done over” all had reputable researched laywers… I can understand a couple of dodgy laywers, but we are talking in the thousands here… are you sure they all had laywers? I know for a fact that hardly any, if any, spaniards use laywers for the purchase of a property in their own country. So I can’t see Brits being advised by estate agents to get a laywer, correct me if I am wrong, of course.

  • #102038
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    Anonymous
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    @charlie wrote:

    @UBEDA wrote:
    stop blaming Spain ….

    Yeah, hanna barbera – stop blaming Spain.

    It’s really all that blimmin’ global warming causing these little Spanish ‘wonders’.

    😆

  • #102039
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Most people did have a Lawyer if you read back through the forum. As for Hannah’s Lawyer, as Ubeda says if he was reputable he should have warned her about the extra tax.

    Firstly my lawyer is ” reputable” , secondly, it is not about the extra tax, its the fact that it is grossly overpriced and it came 3 years and 10 mths after the sale.

  • #102040
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    HB,

    I understand your frustration. However assuming you will have to pay CGT when you sell the property (if it’s a second home) then you can legitimately use the higher purchase price that Hacienda claim you bought the property at. You will have paid 7% on this extra value but will save 19% on sale.

    They can’t use two different sales values for your purchase and your selling!! They will probably try though! Maybe this is one small silver lining, you just need to bide your time.

  • #102051
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Some of the forum users seam to give the impression that if a buyer uses a lawyer. All is in order. Unlike UK where the lawyer have various obligations not to mention avoiding any conflict of interest ( a concept the Spanish system is oblivious about ). Spanish lawyer have little no accountabilty. If the lawyers are unlucky enough to be pulled up by the colegio they dont turn at the hearing. I know lawyers who are struck off still carry on practising in the full knowledge of the colegio.

    As we still do not know what a Spanish lawyer does. I expect him/her two know three things the least, firstly the title’s are correct ( if new, permission etc ) secondly that there are no charges/debts/ embargos, thirdly developers guarantee is in place & is valid. The first can be done by sending an office junior to the Land registry & the second to the Council/Ayutamento. For This he/ she charges 1% of the purchase price a complete riff off. Despite of all this he/she cannot do their job with half competance. I bet no one emplying a lawyer in Spain has ever received a ” letter of engagement “

    The purchase contract is prepared by the seller, legalisation/taxes being collected & hopefully paid by the Notary.

  • #102052
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    ethnatkev: The Spanish Government knew it all times. They were party to the Criminal activities. Non Spaniards & an ordinary person in Spain knew it. If you go to Marbella and see the commercial centre “La Canada” which is illegal.
    A building of that size cannot be built over night. I beleive it took over three years, besides all the contract of leases for the premesis. Happened without any ones knowledge ???????

    Spain, has been damaged big time & even if any action has beern taken it will be a new generation to start a fresh. In the mean time they can perhaps pay Mr & Mrs Prior to show good faith.

  • #102056
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @jp1 wrote:

    HB,

    I understand your frustration. However assuming you will have to pay CGT when you sell the property (if it’s a second home) then you can legitimately use the higher purchase price that Hacienda claim you bought the property at. You will have paid 7% on this extra value but will save 19% on sale.

    They can’t use two different sales values for your purchase and your selling!! They will probably try though! Maybe this is one small silver lining, you just need to bide your time.

    Thank you jp1, something I will bear in mind, there might be light at the end of the tunnel for me, it seems that the ayuntimento made it very clear when I purchased the property that I could not alter the basement into living area, however love and behold, on this bill they have sent me, they have included this basement in my living space!…………..an appeal has now been lodged now on this basis, by my “reputable” lawyer.

  • #102057
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    JP1, your response has been of a practical nature. However the issue is the validity and the strength of a notarised document

  • #103524
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @jp1 wrote:

    HB,

    I understand your frustration. However assuming you will have to pay CGT when you sell the property (if it’s a second home) then you can legitimately use the higher purchase price that Hacienda claim you bought the property at. You will have paid 7% on this extra value but will save 19% on sale.

    They can’t use two different sales values for your purchase and your selling!! They will probably try though! Maybe this is one small silver lining, you just need to bide your time.

    Just an update for you, I am paying my FULL tax next week, far too complicated and costly to fight it, and love and behold, they will not change the value I paid for the property, they say the tax is separate so I will therefore pay extra CGT when I sell it as the extra £50.000 they have added on apparently has nothing to do with the sale.

    Seems you get screwed both ways, my solicitor agrees it is not a fair system and says he wishes they would overhaul how they run the current system, he said all thats needed frm the ayuntimento is a clear and yearly updated on what value they will accpet per sm, I agree with him, if you knew this when you bought it, you would be sure to negotiate this into the sale and at the very least you would pay the correct CGT when you sell it!

    I cant say I am all that surprised!

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