Property prices

LoadingFavourite

This topic contains 13 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of angie angie 3 years, 11 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #57174
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    What are the real prices? In the boom the prices were massively over-inflated by ‘tasadors’ who were often best friends with the bankers who were earning big commissions.

    Who values a property now? The same people? How can you trust them?

    If you have your property repossessed they revalue it to todays value. Surprise, surprise it’s way lower than the bank previously valued it to get the mortgage.

    There are also endless expat websites advertising 3 bedroom villas in far flung little villages in the middle of nowhere for 150,000 euros. I guess that is just the owners not accepting that times have changed?

    So, what is the real value of Spanish property. Here in Ireland they’ve now got a property sales website so you can see what local properties have sold for….and some are surprisingly low… cheeky offers accepted it seems.

    Does Spain have the same thing or could they never admit to what low prices are going through…. all those flats in Roquetas del Mar etc. which are actually advertised for 10k.

    What does this mean for everyone…. that there are still millions of properties for sale and only a few being sold.

    Should we all be positive and hope for better days or is that like banging your head against a brick wall…a brick wall so badly built that it will probably crumble away….

    It made me think that maybe i’m too defeatist….that we have to look for years and years down the line to get out of the property there. Maybe we should believe that things are going to pick up soon, that banks will hand out mortgages for properties, people will buy and all will be fine and dandy.

    How can that happen if there are too many properties on the market and the banks taking a 150k mortgage repo and selling it for 20k. That therefore shows the ‘buyers’ that the prices are so low and then other private sellers can’t compete.

    Great that the Spanish Gov. want lots of Russians and Chinese to buy 160k properties, but what about the millions of valueless flats…. will these Russians and Chinese ship over illegals to live there to work in agriculture such as the Africans and latin americans have been ?

    For how long will this all go on, and how will it come to an end?

  • #113829
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Itsme, who knows the true value of a Spanish property? I don’t know whether there is a site as in the UK such as Zoopla which gives ‘Sold’ prices in any street or area like the one you mention in Ireland.

    Yesterday, I was looking on a Spanish Property website and was shocked to find on Alhaurin Golf just how many ‘distressed’ sales there were in that one area. Because we know some people trying to sell there we know it well, however they are poorly built there, probably the worst I’ve seen in Spain. One property we know has now been on the market almost 8 years, was on for 285k and now 185k but still won’t sell. Just at that Golf club, there are soooooooooo many properties for sale. Investors there have ‘done’ their money but even at the discounts they are not good buys because of build quality and charges. No amount of Russians and Chinese will mop up these properties if they look at the quality there.

    So, I looked in other parts of the CDS on same website, even in nice areas around Benahavis for example and the same story repeated, just soooooo many re-sales often with the words ‘distressed sale’ or ‘Bank repossession’. I was shocked at how many were for sale, what the true figures are, goodness knows? 😯

    I don’t know what the answer is to this, it must be the same on Costa Blanca and most Spanish Costas and inland villages. 🙄 :

    For anyone wishing to buy, they really must do as much homework as possible, with: location, quality, charges, comparitive sale prices and try and locate an honest agent and lawyer, plus negotiate. ❗

    For sellers, ‘presentation’ is key, and a good agent who does not bulls—e, IMO over to Fuengi as he writes blogs on what’s really happening 😉

  • #113830
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    The Spanish land registry prices are not made public – it is one of the main ongoing complaints about the market. Nobody knows what people are prepared to pay and what people are prepared to sell for. You can ask for the sold price for a particular property, but they will charge you.

    As for repossessions, the best indicator I have found is Idealista because you can filter for bank owned properties, and only show results for the previous week, month, etc.

    For the Malaga province it shows 286 repossessed properties have come onto the market during the last month, 96 during the last week and 2855 repossessions altogether. Of course the real figure is higher, but it is still an eye-opener to see a hundred newly repossessed properties be advertised each week in Malaga. In Madrid it is over twice that.

  • #113831
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “What are the real prices? In the boom the prices were massively over-inflated by ‘tasadors’ who were often best friends with the bankers who were earning big commissions”

    It may sound very simple. The real price is what is acceptable to the buyer & seller as no two properties are the same.

    “Who values a property now? The same people? How can you trust them? “

    I do not take any notice of the valuations either in UK or else where. In UK they asked me what I thought was the value my valution had never been contested. The mortgage offer was based on my valution. Ok, I accept it was on the prudent side. In Spain I have seen valutions to the nearest € e.g €350,119, it always made me smile.

    “If you have your property repossessed they revalue it to todays value. Surprise, surprise it’s way lower than the bank previously valued it to get the mortgage “

    This is a forced sale value and not an open market value..

    “There are also endless expat websites advertising 3 bedroom villas in far flung little villages in the middle of nowhere for 150,000 euros. I guess that is just the owners not accepting that times have changed? “

    Confirms my above point i.e. the price has not been agreed between the buyer & seller

    “cheeky offers accepted it seems “.

    I have made reasonable offer’s in the last year or so. The offers were not even acknowledged. The seller than contacted me a few months down the road & I had made a much lower offer it was turned down. This time they respond advising me that my offer was insulting. I did reply to them that there was nothing insulting as the offer was not on their mother, sister, or wive. They were perfectly entitled to say no or come back with a counter offer. There was no need to feel insulted.

    “Should we all be positive and hope for better days “

    Of course we need to be positive otherwise there is no need to get out of bed. There are up/downs in all aspects of life. The secret is staying power. However if people bought in Spain for speculative purposes without plan B or plan C. They have to take the resulting loss on the chin in the similar manner if they made a profit on the purchase. This is nothing new and is not akin to Spain only.

    “Maybe we should believe that things are going to pick up soon.”

    They will pick up but take the soon out of it. The word soon here is very relative as it all depends where is the property & the price range in the area.

    “the banks taking a 150k mortgage repo and selling it for 20k.”
    I do not know a single example of this ??? Perhaps the only area I can think of is the Murcia/Valencia region.

    “what about the millions of valueless flats…. will these Russians and Chinese ship over illegals to live there to work in agriculture such as the Africans and latin americans have been ? “

    May well happen, As they say every dog has his day.

    “For how long will this all go on, and how will it come to an end?”

    How long is a piece of string & what do you mean by “end “

  • #113832
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @itsme wrote:

    What are the real prices? In the boom the prices were massively over-inflated by ‘tasadors’ who were often best friends with the bankers who were earning big commissions.

    Who values a property now? The same people? How can you trust them?

    unfortunately not really. Not to say that there are not some out there that know what they are doing, but since it seems so many really on previous compiled stats, and other products for sale in the area, I would say they are only good for averages. last valuation a buyer did was for a property he was buying at 240.000€ (good price, market value 290.000€) valued at 405.000€

    @itsme wrote:

    If you have your property repossessed they revalue it to todays value. Surprise, surprise it’s way lower than the bank previously valued it to get the mortgage.

    yes, but that is also because the BoS has been pushing for lower (more realistic?)valuations and certain areas have additional reductions due to amount of construction, location, etc… For example everything north of the motorway in Riviera del Sol tends to get an additional 10% knocked of the valuation

    @itsme wrote:

    There are also endless expat websites advertising 3 bedroom villas in far flung little villages in the middle of nowhere for 150,000 euros. I guess that is just the owners not accepting that times have changed?

    In most of these ‘far-flung’ places, the vendors need to look at who their buyers are and what they can afford. also with the trend or more people moving to the coasts and towns, unless these places appeal to a niche market, the future is not bright.

    @itsme wrote:

    So, what is the real value of Spanish property. Here in Ireland they’ve now got a property sales website so you can see what local properties have sold for….and some are surprisingly low… cheeky offers accepted it seems.

    Does Spain have the same thing or could they never admit to what low prices are going through…. all those flats in Roquetas del Mar etc. which are actually advertised for 10k.

    you can find averages, etc…, but no official site showing property X sold for Y.

    @itsme wrote:

    What does this mean for everyone…. that there are still millions of properties for sale and only a few being sold.

    No idea how many properties are for sale. All I can say is this. I will find for sale signs in all areas. Finding properties that are in demand and at the right price is a bit harder to say the least.

    @itsme wrote:

    Should we all be positive and hope for better days or is that like banging your head against a brick wall…a brick wall so badly built that it will probably crumble away….

    of course! If the area attracts a range of buyers (out of province or foreign) things should pick up sooner. If you are reliant on local buyers, then comes down to local industry.

    @itsme wrote:

    It made me think that maybe i’m too defeatist….that we have to look for years and years down the line to get out of the property there. Maybe we should believe that things are going to pick up soon, that banks will hand out mortgages for properties, people will buy and all will be fine and dandy.

    How can that happen if there are too many properties on the market and the banks taking a 150k mortgage repo and selling it for 20k. That therefore shows the ‘buyers’ that the prices are so low and then other private sellers can’t compete.

    yes it does. In some areas there are lots of repos, in others not. To date I have not seen a bank repo in a sought after area for 20k. in the areas where they are at that price, it reflects the current economic situation. hopefully will improve in time.

    @itsme wrote:

    Great that the Spanish Gov. want lots of Russians and Chinese to buy 160k properties, but what about the millions of valueless flats…. will these Russians and Chinese ship over illegals to live there to work in agriculture such as the Africans and latin americans have been ?

    For how long will this all go on, and how will it come to an end?

    An important industry in Spain is tourism. With more people able to enjoy longer/more holidays, why limit the length of time they can stay in the country? The chinese/russians won’t turn around the market, but if they intend to invest 160k or more in a holiday home, why not spain? Its all foreign investment and will trickle down to the wider economy slowly but surely.

    @angie wrote:

    For sellers, ‘presentation’ is key, and a good agent who does not bulls—e, IMO over to Fuengi as he writes blogs on what’s really happening 😉

    😳

  • #113833
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Further complicating the estimates of how much prices have fallen is/was the practice of part of the home purchase being off the books. On paper, the price we paid for a piso in Barcelona in August was about 30% less than the recorded price paid by the previous owner in 2006.

  • #113839
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    The areas I know around the costa del sol have not fallen dramatically, most seem overpriced. I doubt any banks are selling at 10 to 20 thousand…don’t believe everything you see on websites 🙄

    All this talk of valuations….never known anyone get one…except the tongue in the cheek ones from agents, the ones who say how much do you want for it :mrgreen:

  • #113842
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I know for sure that three of the bank flats for sale in our block at 27k, 25k and 23k were boom sales (2006/2007) where the banks handed cash advances ‘for furniture’ to those buying for around the 140/150k mark each. Two were Morrocans and one Ecudorian. Haven’t seen them for years……

    I know a Spanish buy paid Cityfin 14k for the top floor flat back in May. Annoying because a friend of mine would have offered 15k but they weren’t interested, just wanted it gone.

    We had a valuation, the nice friend of Jorge, the guy who scammed us at CajaMurcia came round with him personally to value the flat which had been bought for a 95k a year earlier at 185k. All very professional with his little laser measuring thing. The bank went for the valuation value (well it was the bank manager on a scam) and it’s still on our deeds now. Better than the first set of deeds which was under-declared where the ex owner was a local old Spanish guy who didn’t want to pay out so much in taxes so it was listed on the deeds at 50k (and the rest was my husbands life savings in cash and mortgage cash to them before the notary signing.)

    I thought that tasadors were making big money in the boom as every bank needed a bank valuation to offer a mortgage?

  • #113843
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    and the fees for the tasador to value the flat weren’t cheap 🙁

  • #113844
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well, at least we now know that Brussels thinks Spanish property prices should fall by 75pc in total….
    http://www.elconfidencial.com/economia/2012/12/07/bruselas-estima-que-los-pisos-en-espana-deben-tener-un-descuento-del-75-110539/

  • #113850
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant
  • #113854
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Some interesting background here. Apparently it’s all a bit chaotic…no suprise there then!

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/07/spain-bad-bank-idUSL5E8N3HSH20121207

  • #113855
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:


    I have made reasonable offer’s in the last year or so. The offers were not even acknowledged. The seller than contacted me a few months down the road & I had made a much lower offer it was turned down. This time they respond advising me that my offer was insulting. I did reply to them that there was nothing insulting as the offer was not on their mother, sister, or wive. They were perfectly entitled to say no or come back with a counter offer. There was no need to feel insulted.

    Unless they have received any other offers, you should tell them that your offer is in fact the market price and that it is both insulting and time wasting to keep a property on the market at an overinflated price for months (or years) on end. Either they take the property off the market or reduce the asking price, so genuine sellers can go ahead and do business. 😈 😈

  • #114070
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Make of this what you will, from the Olive Press and according to Fitch:

    http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/12/18/prices-of-repossessed-homes-in-spain-fall-65/

    So the repossessed home prices have fallen 65% in a year because they have already fallen to historical lows so the fall is from a low base, yet a 50% fall since 2007 so from a high base presumably 🙄

    According to them, there are still more than a million unsold new homes yet no-one seems to know the true figure! 🙄

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.