- December 14, 2007 at 5:42 pm #53520
I am being sued by my old landlord for two months rent plus costs, but I wasnt even living in the apartment for the time he is suing me!
I left the apartment end of July, as we bought our own. I advised the owner(verbally) and he came the day I left the apartment to inspect it, and it was then he informed he would be keeping my bond(some made up reasons such as damage to apartment and because he couldnt rent it out in August.
Since then he has tried sending me a Burofax but to the address of his apartment where I no longer live, plus he then sent it to my girlfriend where she works(she doesnt speak Spanish, and who is to say I was still with her, her name doesn´t appear on the contract anyway).
He never renewed the contract with me whilst living there once it expired, and in the contract it is worded that the contract is not renewable.
His only hold on me is that there was never a record that the keys were given back. I had to leave them on the table in the apartment when I left as he just stormed out of the apartment. He knew that we were going as he came and saw the property.
my lawyer says that this bit of information about the key, is to pardon the pun, key to his case and important.
I have many people who can vouch for me saying that I have been living elsewhere plus I could probably get people to say that I have moved from the urbanisation too, however my lawyer is still not confident.
- December 14, 2007 at 5:49 pm #76593
It does sound a bot strange. My understanding is that once a contract has expired and if you stay there, the monthyl agreement rolls on, ie you pay on the 1st and then again the next month. He has already kept 1 month from you and he would have to prove damage for this – Im guessing its a 1 month bond? In which case thats all he should be entitled to
If I were you I would take the old contract to another lawyer for a 2nd opinion – was it a vivienda 5 year contract or a 11 month one?
- December 14, 2007 at 6:06 pm #76594
it was an 11 month contract, which actually says is inprorrogable.
I have been out of the apartment since the 31st July but he is claiming that I have spent all this time living there.
The way he is playing it is that why would he pay my bond if I am still there.
My lawyer is making out that he has a good case whcih to me seems ridiculous when I have been living elsewhere for 5 months.
- December 14, 2007 at 6:18 pm #76595
Any way you can get hold of the elec and water bills? If the place was empty then it would show no or little useage against useage when you were there
Also if an 11 month term, these are usually not renewable so as not to give you the 5 year rights to stay
I think on the face of it he is trying it on but I am intruiged why your lawyer says he may have a case!!!
If you also bought your property then that is good proof you have been elsewhere since then – did you register on at the padron in the town hall when you moved?
Otherwise let him have the expense of taking you to court although you need to keep a check on it as if he sues you at the old place, and you dont respond then you may have a job getting the notification removed from your records at a later stage!
- December 14, 2007 at 6:38 pm #76596
My lawyer says that the problem is that I never gave the key back and registered that fact. This is the big problem apparently.
The other strange thing is that he found out where I live, and sent me the summons there, which is strange as if I live in his apartment, why would he send it to another address?
- December 14, 2007 at 6:50 pm #76597
What about getting witnesses to testify you had left on the date you said?
And yes if he sent it to your new address then that may be a mistake!
- December 14, 2007 at 6:52 pm #76598
Well that is what I am thinking too. Plus the bills thing, someone mentioned that to me too.
I have never actually receieved anything directly to me in writing apart from the court summons, surely I need some kind of notice first?
- December 17, 2007 at 1:46 pm #76621
Allegedly yes, but I remember years ago a friend of mine had a court case taken against him in which he did not receive any papers. Suddenly the local police had to come and tape up his charter yacht and even they didnt know why, just he had to attend court a week later.
It was the captain who after being paid off in cash had taken action for dismissal!
So, never assume anything!!!
- December 17, 2007 at 1:57 pm #76622
I’ve had aggravation from previous landlords so I sympathise with you “spain”. Would it be an idea to say where and who you are dealing with, or at least give us a vague idea -maybe someone else on the board has had dealings with this person before?
- December 18, 2007 at 3:06 pm #76645
Some events since my last post.
I have talked to my lawyer and we have presente ourselves to the courts plus sent his lawyer correspondence with information stating that we have not been living in the apartment for around 5 months . the time the owner is stating we have been there.
Next thing the guys lawyer rings mine very surprised, saying that he knew nothing of this and was under the impression I was in the apartment!!!
He said he will talk to his client.
It was his first time renting so it looks as though I am the first to suffer this guy. What an idiot.
Worst thing is , I have found a witness who has been in the apartment under the owners request to check how it was and was also asked to organise cleaners, all after I left the apartment, and he also told said witness he had the keys for the apartment.
Perfect I hear you say…she won´t testify as she works for the development and sold the guy his unit. 😕
- December 18, 2007 at 3:39 pm #76646
In that case you can bribe her!!
Good for you and well done, Im glad to hear you are getting things orted out and keep us posted!
- December 18, 2007 at 4:49 pm #76647
Still heard nothing from them….good or bad?
- December 18, 2007 at 6:20 pm #76654
Either – they mostly go and hibernate in the afternoons and I think most peeps are in xmas mode!!
My guess is you wont hear anything more.
- December 19, 2007 at 9:49 am #76665
The guys lawyer has rung mine. They are willing to strike a deal.
They wil accept 2 montsh rent, plus the bond they already have, plus the money I have to pay to the lawyer, which in total comes to about 2750 euros…..for something I have not done!
I have told him that he can keep the deposit and nothing more.
lets see what happens……………..
- December 19, 2007 at 1:52 pm #76671
If they are willing to deal this early then they have no grounds! To take it to court will cost them as well and your case is strong!!
- December 19, 2007 at 3:06 pm #76673
Well that is what I am hoping too…he has now shown his hand. To be willing to deal so early must mean something, but I hope I haven´t pushed it too far.
- December 20, 2007 at 7:57 am #76679
If you are innocent, then why even offer them your bond? 😕
- December 20, 2007 at 9:42 am #76683
Cos the owner has already kept it – thats common here and mainly by the Spanish. Most rentors dont pay the last month and let the landlord keep the final month – easier that way
- December 20, 2007 at 11:27 am #76687
I should not pay a single €, let him take you to Court. This way you will be discouraging other landlords to behave in this manner.
The Spaniards knows that the English for a quite life or lack of language/system will pay up whether it legitimately due or not.
- December 20, 2007 at 9:08 pm #76718
Well if it does go to court , and we do win, I will then try claiming the bond as well. W paid our last month, instead of using the bond to pay for it…effectively paying another month without being there by him keeping it.
- December 31, 2007 at 5:50 pm #76819
Spain, dont worry, this will not go to Court unless the previous owner is very very stupid, as they have no chances of winning this. Also remember the one starting the case is the one that starts paying fees!
Your Lawyer may be a bit too cautious not wanting to give you false expectations, but I dont see the other side has many (if any) chances of winning this one.
Enjoy your new house and let them sue you.
- January 2, 2008 at 2:55 pm #76869
I really hope you are right abolex.
We have heard nothing since we said we wouldn´t give them another penny, so not sure if that is good or bad.
The way I see it he doesn´t have much chance either, but if laywers are cautious about saying whether we have a good chance or not it is still very worrying, bes we have been given is 50% chance of winning.
- December 19, 2008 at 12:15 pm #88703
Well we got the sentencing yesterday on the appeal, and we lost.
So going from having won the case which is totally farcical and a complete lie against us, we have now lost , and on top of that there is no room for appealing the decisionl.
We now have to cough up rent from August 2007 to Feb 2008 plus his court costs.
I cannot understand how the system works over here, how can one judge see a completely opposite ruling to another and not even give us opportunity to appeal the 2nd ruling?Plus we even contacted them through our lawyer wehn they first presented us with the court papers in December 2007 saying that we definately were no longer in that apartment, yet the court still rules we have to pay until Feb 2008, 2 months extra when they officialy knew that we werent there and that the flat was empty.
My lawyer says there is nothing we can do now even though we dont agree with the ruling.
Apparently now his options are to embargo my wages, but I am on benefits due to the credit crunch and so all he would see every month is about 60 euros. Or he can embargo half of our apartment which we now own, and force it to go to public auction. As noone would buy half a house, especially wehn the mortgage is more than the flat is worth, he can then decided to take on the mortgage himself and keep half the flat(other half is in my girlfriends name who wasnt on the rental contract and we think cant be affected). Then he can actually just not pay the mortgage and unless it is paid fully only by moy girlfriend the bank can then reposess. If she does pay it fully then he owns half my house and it doesnt cost him a centimo.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CAN ANYONE GIVE MY ANY ADVICE????????????
- December 19, 2008 at 12:54 pm #88707
Spain, dont worry, this will not go to Court unless the previous owner is very very stupid, as they have no chances of winning this.
I dont see the other side has many (if any) chances of winning this one.
Just shows that even lawyers don’t have a clue what chances you have when it comes to Spanish ‘justice’. 🙄
So sorry to read this outcome, Spain. Am saddened to see yet another example of judges running roughshod over facts, commomsense and the law. Hopefully one of our forum lawyer-members will see this and advise. Have sent you a pm with the website of one you may like to try.
- December 20, 2008 at 11:15 am #88739
I have sent you a pm in case you want a second advice.
I am surprised about the outcome of your case and afraid that you have already appealed, and lost as well.
- December 20, 2008 at 12:31 pm #88740
We didnt appeal, he took us to court, we won and then he appealed and won, but now they say we cannot appeal.
- December 20, 2008 at 12:41 pm #88741
I would need to read the appeal sentence to understand what happened
Did you Lawyer oppose the appeal?
Have you been explained why Courts changed the decision?
- December 20, 2008 at 2:03 pm #88744
Well I didnt realise you could object to an appeal, and my lawyer never said anything.
I have the second sentencia and am trying to get the first, I had it but cant seem to find it.
I could send you the second on e mail if you like?It would expalin a lot better than I why they changed their minds.
- January 5, 2009 at 10:46 am #89015
Im still trying to find out if there is a process that has to be followed regarding embragos of money, property etc?
Can anyone help? Im trying my lawyer but its hard going.
What I would like to know is if the other party has to start with embargos of what I earn)or in my case dont currently) or if he can just decided what to embargo and go straight for my property?
Does this make sense?
- January 5, 2009 at 10:58 am #89016
Can anyone help? Im trying my lawyer but its hard going.
Spain, over a year ago on this Inez gave you good advice to “take the old contract to another lawyer for a 2nd opinion”.
Last month I pm’d you with the name/contact details of a good Spanish lawyer, again for a 2nd opinion.
I don’t understand if it’s “hard going” with the lawyer you’ve been using, why you don’t do this.
- January 5, 2009 at 12:07 pm #89018
Well I have spoken to a few lawyers but nothing can be done about the sentencing now, and it´s all about avoiding paying this and what type f lengthes he can go to to get the money and how hard or easy it will be for him now.
- January 27, 2010 at 1:13 pm #96291
Well ended up having to pay his court costs plus the outstanding months he was claiming I lived there – costs me 10,000 euro in total including our court costs and the deposit he originally kept- only just finished paying it in December – 1000 a month for 8 months -not funny when you havent got a job and do have a mortgage which costs just as much monthly – BEWARE!
- January 27, 2010 at 11:08 pm #96302
That sounds pretty tough.
So do you believe the appeal Judge was a mate, took a bribe or was just an idiot?
If you were unemployed how did you pay 1000 Euros monthly.
What you need to think of now is a plan to get him back, since to me that seems the only way of justice in Spain.
I was talking to my parents the other day and stated that if if I was elderly and all my life savings were lost in a legal property being subsequently declared illegal and demolished, I would establish the person responsible for revoking the licence, hire a JCB and demolish their home.
I would be elderly, having nothing to lose and prepared to spend 1 or 2 years in prison for the satisfaction.
It would certainly be reported in the Spanish News!
- January 28, 2010 at 11:17 pm #96327Inez wrote:If they are willing to deal this early then they have no grounds! To take it to court will cost them as well and your case is strong!!
Inez you could well be right but logic is a scarcely used commodity in Spanish courts, I would like to know if the landlord is Spanish or a foreigner, sorry if this has been mentioned before and I missed it. If the landlord is Spanish be very careful Spain,call their bluff by all means saying you will let them keep the deposit and nothing else, if it does go to court you could win , but end up having to pay enormous costs.
There are cases even amongst Spanish landlords and tenants where squatters moved in to a property whilst the owners were away and when the case came to court ,the squatters won.
- January 29, 2010 at 2:02 pm #96352
It does beggar the question as to whether the landlord knew the lawyer – but then again the appeal system here is a complete joke anyway. No new court case, no lawyers, no witnesses – just two judges reviewing the original paperwork and making a decision.
The landlord is Spanish – and for a long time not a day went by when I didn´t want revenge, fantasizing about what I could do to him etc etc. My blood was boiling. The trouble is I do not want to go to prison or get caught getting involved in something like that, it would make the 10,000 seem like nothing.
I had to let it go for my own peace of mind and think of it as just another payment like a mortgage or loan.
I struggled through with payments, I eventually found a job but was still down 200 euros a month after payments which ate into any money we had saved previously.
I wanted to go to the papers early on but my “joke”lawyers advised against it – in the UK it would have been splashed all over the place.
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