Planning laws..a question

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Melosine Melosine 7 years ago.

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  • #55034
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Does anyone know if, in a private residence, there is a law that there must be a seperate toilet for “drop in “visitors.
    At the moment my casual friends/ family visitors use a bathroom accessed through an unused bedroom but have just been told this is not acceptable.
    Pity our original planning officer wasn’t aware 🙄

  • #92468
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I know of several houses where both bathrooms are en suite and visitors have to ask which one to use. They then have to go through the bedroom.

    Interesting question.

  • #92473
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Who said it was not acceptable?

  • #92490
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    The “new” lady local planning officer Mark.

    Our plans showing only ensuites was passed by our local Ayuntamiento and the College of Architects 4 years ago.

    Now the build is completed suddenly we have been told..because it is the law… ????? that visitors to a house should not access facilities via a bedroom.

    So it is “requested” we block up access from one of the bedrooms and make another doorway into the bathroom. Not an insurmountable problem but just thinking of the mess is putting us in a spin.
    Having an outside toilet is not sufficient.

    Personally think this is more a point of view than a law but we suspect we will be held to ransom over our final licence and don’t want to go down without at least a strong discussion.

  • #92495
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    A prime example of how the Spanish “authorities”make the rules up as they go along!

  • #92497
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Have to agree with you on this Claire.

    I can tell you she actually laughed when she said we had a “little” problem.
    The alteration can of course create another problem as our plans and the build are not going to agree as any alterations need planning permission will we then be fined !!

    She was very thorough in measuring every room, outside structure and siting of where everything was built and said at the time all was correct to the plan

    What we want to ensure (long since learned here NOT to trust anything verbal) is that if we have to do the alteration no other will suddenly materialise particularly as our council, like many here, is worse than just broke.

  • #92499
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’ve never heard anything so absurd.

    Presumably you need to get this sorted to get the LFO or cédula?

    Mark

  • #92501
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Melosine
    Would it not be worth asking your lawyer to contact the housing/planning dept. at the Junta de Andalucia to ask the question re. the law on this.
    If the reply is in your favour, this lady could not argue.

  • #92512
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If your new build has just one bathroom, this must have an intermediate “hallway” (distribuidor) if it is accessed from a habitable room (ie bedroom or living room). If your property has more than one bathroom then one of these must have independent access, the others can be en-suite.

  • #92516
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Tonight found out it comes under Art 43.3.3.
    So although our local townhall have “admitted” wow.. they made a mistake also pointed out that once passed plans have ..in very small print..a written disclaimer whereby any error on their part has to be rectified.
    So we have no choice but to do the work 🙁 .
    Our architect has to send amended plans for which the council will not charge.
    As our architect was also at fault we assume at this moment in time she will not charge us either……..

    Another hard lesson as yet not covered in any books one reads about relocating here.

    Thanks all for your imput

  • #92518
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Very interesting Hillbilly.

    Do you know how long this “law” has been in force? As I said I know at least 2 houses which do not comply. Fortunately not ours!!

  • #92529
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s not a new requirement, it was included in the CTE in 1999 I think (maybe even earlier), but don’t quote me on that date!
    It’s not that there must be a separate toilet for visitors (as Melosine has interpreted it), but it’s to do with the access and number of bathrooms, as my post above.

  • #92532
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Access to all 3 ensuite bathrooms are accessed via passageways and although “visitors” have to pass through a door leading to a bedroom one doesn’t actually go through a bedroom….if this makes sense.

    Hillybilly it was not my interpretation about separate toilet for visitors but the planning officers’……who said once the alteration had be inspected and passed we could return everything to what is was before !!!

    Is that not the craziest thing …but hey this is Spain 🙄 where they have laws to cover every eventuality and if you are not a bosom buddy interpret them to suit.

  • #92533
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Is that not the craziest thing …but hey this is Spain where they have laws to cover every eventuality and if you are not a bosom buddy interpret them to suit.

    This is precisely what many of us have been fighting against for years Melosine. Now you have witnessed it first hand, albeit on a much smaller scale

  • #92535
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Claire,
    Just because I have tried to be upbeat doesn’t mean I have not been unaffected by massive problems here.

    At one time we stood to lose a great deal more than a deposit . Everything in fact for our builder was refusing to pass over the boletins because a former client still owed him money.
    Fortunately our lawyer eventually made him see sense.

    Ever read/heard about this sort of problem before? We haven’t.

    However discussing this on a forum would not have solved anything and probably stressed us even more.

    However, for this …hopefully the final hurdle … I needed clarification of the building laws because I don’t go down without a fight.

  • #92536
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Good to know we’re (kind of) singing from the same hymn sheet Melosine. 😉

    I sincerely hope you arrive at a satisfactory conclusion to appease the Town Hall and with the least inconvenience to yourself. It is indeed helpful to us all when these types of erroneous laws are brought to the fore on the forum.

  • #92540
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Always was and always will be Claire but I believe when one is up to the neck in “muck and bullets” 😯 one has keep a positive outlook.

  • #92541
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I agree, but it is very very hard sometimes as has been proven to me from a very sad conversation that I had this morning with someone affected by the injustice of the Spanish judicial system .

  • #95299
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Suely the architect should have known and the college should have picked up on this?

  • #95303
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Do the C ofA or townhalls ever really look at submitted plans in detail ?

    Our architect admits she knew but didn’t think it a problem because no other townhall she has dealt with has ever bothered before.
    Lorca townhall are now revising their planning laws to adhere to European standard consequently our architect has even more paperwork to fill in regarding our build.

    I did mention long ago that regarding new builds Lorca seemed not to have the corruption as in other areas so at least we have one little pocket of Spain where people in the far distant future can buy with confidence re legality.

  • #95304
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, I have never had a problem with them and always found them to be more than helpful. Regarding planning it would seem that they have not succumbed like the rest of the councils. The only one that is dubious is the new Lorca resort on the way to Águilas. I saw in the paper last week that the police reckon they have concrete evidence that he bribed people to reclassify the land. I’ve always found that with a ‘licencia de obras menores’ once you’ve paid and have the licence no one is interested afterwards.
    P.S. I Pm’d you.

  • #95312
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Yes, thank you gus-lopez, I picked up the message.

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