Pegaras

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #52368
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi

    I have just been reading comments/discussion started by shakeel regarding Spanish lawyers and the Spanish law system that allows them to practise and would like to highlight the immorallity of the Spanish banking system in that it permits the use of the “Spanish Pagera” (I think that is how it is spelt)

    I received 2 of these for return of deposits I paid for an off plan development that the developor has failed to deliver. they look exactly like a cheque but are little more than an IOU. The first one cleared and I was charged £150 by the Spanish bank for this to occur. They have now requested 80 euros to return to me the second unpaid one – what a laugh!

    My bank here in England agree with me that they should be banished and that all they do is allow immoral people longer to repay what is owed and make money for these banks. I have contacted my euro MP to request that he lobbys the EU to stop Spain allowing the use of these (Spain is the only country that has them)

    If anyone has any information regarding these Pageras ie what exactly they are, whether the bank does have to honour them eventually etc
    I would be most grateful

    Regards

  • #66862
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    😀 Pagarés.

  • #66869
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This is the first I have ever heard of these “pagares”
    What are they?

    thanks, bettyboo

  • #66870
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Is it something like an I:O:U ?

  • #66872
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks Kathy!

    I did not know what they were but they sound wonderful to me, mabey I should have given one of these to the developer when I was paying for my apartment, then it would have not mattered so much when I was going to court to try and get it back !!!

  • #66876
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Megan,
    I am afraid the problem is much more deep rooted. First of all as you know that Banks makes money on Lending, when a Spaniard opens a bank account it not because the of its product or its cost structure its only because its close to his/her house.

    Any credit extended and be enforcable in the event of a default has to be notorised, Yes the wondefull creature the notary comes into action, this adds cost i.e notary fee and stamp duties to keep the wondefully incompetant cival servent ( not surprising that the youngster of Spain wants to be civil servants, What a waste of youth and energy to push paper)

    Cost can at times be more than the credit facilty and to the best of my knowledge its not a revolving credit so you can pay once and get on with life. Each credit has to be notorised.

    As a result the bank try a swindle who ever and when ever they can as their main source of revenue i.e. income from lending is limitations

    The cost and paper work is also one of the reason that the cash culture flourish. This leave a lot of cash under the mattress and thus starve the economy of liquidity

  • #66907
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi All

    Draken as you have responded with the correct spelling perhaps you could enlighten us all as to exactly what they are, as there does seem to be some confusion.

    And bettyboo you’re right we should all have used them-but perhaps we British are a bit too honest!!!

  • #66909
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s not a simple IOU document as if the debtor refuses to pay in the given date you have an special executive procedure to recover your money. If presented in time there is no need no notarize it

    But careful… dates are specially important when deling with this kind of documents

    Cesar

  • #66942
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Megan,

    I’ve sent you a PM to your account here answering the question addressed to my business Email, because my ISP tells me your Hotmail Email Address rejected my message, please check your inbox in the Private area here.

    Cesar

  • #67146
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have been offered Pajare as a refund of deposits by the developers. They have told me that I can get the money by April 2007 or before if the developer has managed to build and sell the property.

    Personally, I think Pajare (I think it is same as Promissary Note – maybe someone can confirm this?) are a complicated financial product and will require careful study of the following wording:-

      Name on the Pajare – who can exercise it?
      Date of issue?
      Date of Expiry?
      Date when it can be exercised – due date?
      Interest paid?
      What happens if they fail to pay on the due date?
      Who pays legal cost to take them to court?
      Is the company issuing Pajare a reputable company?
      Any guarantee?

    If above is true – this will require an experianced financial expert to check it out.

    I have already fallen foul to Bank Guarantee trap by having been issued a BG that expired 2 months before I can make claim ( 👿 ) – thanks to my solicitor who forgot to check expiry date even though I told them specifically that I want to be able to get money back if things go wrong.

    So I am not sure if Pajare is worth it and may end up with bigger problem then you currently are facing. I prefer not to dig a bigger hole than the hole I am already in but may not have a choice in this matter in the end. What do the legal experts think?

    Will be interested to find out if anyone has successfully been able to recover money via Pajare?

  • #67183
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Pagarés are more complicated than mere promissory notes.

    Sorry for not replying yesterday, it was national holiday in Spain.

    Name on the Pajare – who can exercise it?

    Yourself as the beneficiary. The debtor (=developer) issues it. A bank acts as a co-signer guaranteeing (bank guarantee) that should the developer fail to pay they will pay in lieu of him.

    Date of issue?

    On the pagaré

    Date of Expiry?

    On the pagaré

    Date when it can be exercised – due date?

    On the pagaré
    Interest paid?

    What interest ? It’s a lump sum only to be paid on a given date.
    What happens if they fail to pay on the due date?
    The co-signer pays in lieu of the debtor as an underwriter; should be the bank.

    Who pays legal cost to take them to court?

    That will depend on the final ruling. You will pay all legal costs at first until there is a final ruling “on costas” (=who pays legal fees)

    Is the company issuing Pajare a reputable company?

    You will have to find out for yourself hiring someone: lawyer, fiscal advisor etc…

    Any guarantee?

    It depends. If I were you I would hire a lawyer on this matter in case you don’t have one already. It really does take a case-by-case study.

  • #67194
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for that Draken. Sounds like Pagare is complicated for normal folks – and again I will have to put trust on the professional I choose at my own peril.

    I will hire a lawyer – hope he/she is better than the one I got now.

  • #67195
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As Drakan seems clued up, have you thought of finding out which Practice he is with, and giving them a try?

  • #67214
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Drakan – as a lawyer do you think Pagare are worth it as a refund of deposit?

    Would you recommend this form of settlement to your clients?

  • #67378
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Absolutely no chance of that!!

  • #67386
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I replied to you by PM Mr Bp.

  • #67433
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for that Draken.

    Claire – can you explain in detail why not?

  • #70777
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have been offered Pagare as refund of my deposits and it looks like the only way to get my hard earned cash back.

    I think I am making a big mistake by taking this offer but looks like there is no other way.

    Can someone please tell me if they have had good or bad experiance of getting money back using Pagare?

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