Paramount theme park in Murcia

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This topic contains 100 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Mark Stücklin Mark Stücklin 10 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #55846
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    Anonymous
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  • #100603
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    Anonymous
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    I doubt it will get off the ground, but if it does, it will only be because of public money. Just look at Terra Mitica! If a theme park can’t work right outside Benidorm, what chance in Murcia?

    Note that Paramount themselves are not investing a cent, though why they would waste management time and branding on this idea beats me.

    Tilly, if you are in favour of it then I hope it works, but as you can see, I’m very sceptical.

  • #100605
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    katy
    Spectator

    Mark I think you are correct. Reading between the lines it sounds like a bit of electioneering from local politicians and businessmen. Heard it all before.

  • #100612
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m with all of you. Finish bloody Corvera airport first!

  • #100623
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Marjal – am afraid the temptation to be able to boast takes a great higher priority.

    Pedro Alberto Cruz, the regional councillor for Culture and Tourism in Murcia said:
    “it is the most important project undertaken in the region ever”.

    Note the “ever”.

    Whether it makes financial sense or not is irrelevant. It’s all about prestiege, prestiege, prestiege. Rather like the UK holding the Olympics in 2012. They reckon it will take the Greeks at least two generations to pay for the Olympics they held in 2004.

  • #100694
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Pedro Alberto Cruz, the regional councillor for Culture and Tourism in Murcia said:
    “it is the most important project undertaken in the region ever”.

    This is the half-wit who has managed to get both ryan air & easyjet to stop flying in to Murcia , San Javier , this winter except from stansted & dublin. All he’s done is increase Alicantes throughput.

  • #100696
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Regional elections round the corner…these people will sell their mother for another 4 more years.

  • #100699
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    This thread raises some fundamental questions about how a modern capitalist economy ought to be run.
    Should expensive capital projects such as a theme park be publically funded to create employment and give a region some tourist ‘prestige’? Or should economies be run simply on business ethics of profit and viability?
    The problem with the former is once the project is complete and proves a financial disaster it falls into serious decline and usually ends up being written off.
    Any benefits in employment and prestige quickly evaporate. Public ridicule and recrimination follow. Yet the people responsible for the decision always seem immune to sanction.
    In the other model when the project proves its viability, employment and prestige remains. If it fails the person making the decision usually gets the chop.
    For me it’s a no brainer really. Public money should never be used unless a project proves it’s viability in careful publically debated study.
    The Paramount project in Murcia is clearly a stupid idea and will fail, yet I have no doubt it will get built because the Regional Government of Murcia have decided it will.
    Who are these politicos who continue to throw money away?
    That question actually gets to the heart of it in Spain. A system rooted in corruption, based on nothing but patronage, nepotism, paternalism and secrecy.
    Spain has still an awful long way to travel before it becomes an open, honest and vibrant capitalist democracy. Somehow I doubt it ever will.
    Here’s some cobblers from Paramount:-
    PARAMOUNT LICENSING ANNOUNCES
    MURCIA, SPAIN THEME PARK DEVELOPMENT
    September 10, 2010 — Paramount Licensing (PLI) announced today that it has entered into agreements for the development of a Paramount-branded theme park and entertainment facility in Murcia, Spain. PLI will not be an investor in the project but will license intellectual property from its vast library of films and provide conceptual master planning and design services for the project.

    “We believe Murcia presents a strong opportunity to bring a Paramount Movie Park to Europe and we look forward to working together with the Murcia Regional Government and Santa Monica Financial Services, S.A. to develop this exciting project” said Michael Corcoran, President, Paramount Licensing. “The tourism infrastructure offered within the region of Murcia and the strong support for this project by the Murcia Regional Government provide ideal conditions to bring world-class entertainment to the people of Spain and its growing number of international visitors”, added Michael Bartok, Executive Vice President, Recreation. More details about the project will be announced in the next few months.

    Then we have this:-http://www.laverdad.es/alicante/20100910/local/region/paramount-anuncia-acuerdo-para-201009100839.html
    So the whole thing is not a done deal and no public is money involved!! Looks like a political struggle between Madrid and Murcia to taking place yet again.

  • #100700
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    Anonymous
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    Public money should be used for public goods, like transport, defence, education. Everything else usually ends in failure, distortion, hidden subsidy, entrenched special interests, you name it.

    At least with a straight-up private investment it either works or it doesn’t. Public investment can be a big failure, yet guzzle money for decades (at the expense of more worthy uses of public money).

    Since when were theme parks a public good?

  • #100705
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    Anonymous
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    I remember a car called Delorian that was built with plenty of public money in N. Ireland; so it’s not just Spain.
    But later on N. Ireland got other problems slowly sorted out and, although not exactly the same situation, it is where Spain is. The big money from the EU has stopped, Rumania, Bulgaria and the likes want their share of EU funds.

    What Spain needs to do is not only face the corruption that for some reason seems to be embedded in the “conservative” section of politics (I don’t know why but the corruption charges always seem to taint the PP more than PSOE) but they also need to address the lack of productivity due to low investment in education, investigation, development, etc,.

    I mentioned in the duplicated thread, why doesn’t Murcia try and bring a high tech firm to Murcia, hell yeah! Bring Microsoft, Google…whoever…I’d be with them all the way, but spend money on something that has been proven to be wrong not on one occassion but on several: Warner Park, Isla Magica and Terra Mitica.

    It’s the need to get in another 4 years. It seems the life of a Spanish politian is Really cushy.

  • #100706
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I mentioned in the duplicated thread, why doesn’t Murcia try and bring a high tech firm to Murcia, hell yeah! Bring Microsoft, Google…whoever…I’d be with them all the way, but spend money on something that has been proven to be wrong not on one occassion but on several: Warner Park, Isla Magica and Terra Mitica.

    I have seen similar comments on málaga forums. They want to see job creation that doesn’t rely on the volatility of tourism. They are tired of seasonal jobs and criticise the junta de andalucía for spending vasts amount of money on tourist promotions etc. Some claim these pie in the sky schemes are just an excuse for a few jaunts overseas.

    I doubt the project will ever get off the ground.

  • #100707
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I think in the end it all comes down to political maturity. Spain has not really had a long tradition of democratic accountability. Its local and regional politicians behave a bit like small town sheriffs in nineteen century California.
    Dictatorship or an exaggerated respect for authority of one form or another is deeply imbedded in Spanish culture.
    I accept in Madrid there is an inteligencia who are more aware of the present. However go out to the regions and it’s a different story.
    There is far too little local accountability and far too much regional power.

  • #100769
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    Anonymous
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    Surveyors have been out on the Condado de Alhama land during the week and the consortium of Banks who took the land from Polaris World in order for them to avoid bankruptcy are offering said land as their investment in the project. Condado is 20 mins from beaches and from Corvera, plus is on a good new road network. The land is ‘ready to go’ having been set up with a water desalination system and power already and with various urban building permits. Another plot has been identified in the Murcia town area and another in Molina de Segura.

    Work on Corvera Airport has been mightily stepped up and is ongoing 24/7 with an announcement this week that it will be operational in late 2011- we can only wait and see as testing of the airport will take 6 months and it’s a mere shell at the moment. Plus the high speed rail link, which was approved earlier this year, between Murcia and Cartegena will play a part in the decision.

    The proposal sounds more like a business/leisure park rather than the traditional theme park. Paramount are to base a studio area within the complex apparently. Rides will be designed around Paramount film theme’s and there will be Hotels and food retail outlets. Statements have been made saying this theme park will be unlike any other and so comparisons should not be made with existing complexes.

    One major private investor has been announced with others falling over themselves to be involved (apparently) Many area’s have ‘offered’ plots of land. Many statements have been made to say no public funds will go into the project.

    The idea that this is all election propaganda was mooted in February when the proposal first came to light. The Minister involved was at least able to produce a letter confirming the concept was more than hot air. Now Paramount have confirmed the theme park will be in Murcia and executives arrive in about a month to confirm it’s location. If investment is forthcoming- who know’s, it could really happen? In general the feeling seems to be that it will bring work and some investment to the region- whether the anticipated 3 million visitors a year is in any way accurate is another story! In these constrained times whether the future will really just be a half built theme park glorifying the horizon we also have to wait and see.

    This from typicallyspanish.com

    “So why the optimism in Murcia? Sales are up, but is that enough? No. The market has moved somewhat from second/retirement homes to holiday home as investments. Holiday rentals in Murcia in 2010 have not suffered as elsewhere in Spain – tourism has been steady in 2010’s high season, and Alicante airport (less than an hour up the motorway) reported its best summer ever. Crucially, Murcia is moving ahead with a new international airport in Corvera, which is due to open in 2011, and estimates for the magnetic effect of the new theme park vary between 1.5 and 3 million additional visitors a year”-

    Read more: http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_27226.shtml#ixzz0zxTP2fjc

  • #100786
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    Anonymous
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    Without going into much detail Janha and I realise this is a press release, but it is just that. A press release.
    Several things caught my attention:
    1.The land is Polaris repo land. Why is that? Credite Suisse had a big stake in Polaris of late, I don’t know if they still do.
    2. The airport: I’ll believe it when I see it. The AVE will reach Alicante/ Valencia first but that does not necessarily mean that Terra Mitica will become profitable so I don’t know how the same can be said for Paramount.
    3. Paramount already had a partnership with Terra Mitica. They came, they got paid, they left!
    4. Who are the companies who are “falling over themselves” for involvement with the project?
    5. Hotels, food retail outlets?? It sounds just like a Polaris golf course.
    6. There is no water there, no matter how many desalinations plants that may be installed. With the cuts in Public Works, is it realistic to think that this is going to happen?
    7. A business leisure park: Please explain what that is? Canary Wharf meets Alton Towers?
    8. If the information of the project was released in February, why is it news today? In somebody’s draw until election time? Me thinks.
    9. Sales are up? Really. Somehow my information is different. If sales are up why is Polaris off loading land?
    10. The market has moved from retirement homes to investments? I really cannot see this being truthful or correct. In any case its demographic pressure and lifestyle that determines the purchase of a second home or retirement property.

    I have a hard time believing this is a good idea. I just hope what is in the press release will happen and everything will be hunkydory…but I don’t think it will.

  • #100787
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    As always projects such as these are hyped up by those with a vested interest in doing so. Nothing necessarily wrong with that but you have to view their optimism with some caution and a big dose of salt.
    People who have bought at Polaris World’s Condado Alhambra have seen their investments plummet in value. They see this Paramount project as a lifeline. The banks who have repossessed that companies land seek a high return for it’s sale/partnership.
    Paramount is part of the US conglomerate Viacom. If they thought this was a viable investment they would be putting up some of their own capital. They are not.
    I simply do not believe that public funds will not be used in one form or another to facilitate the project. This can of course take many forms, such as providing infrastructure at public cost.
    If you are familiar with the site and the area it’s planned to build in, you would be forgiven if you said the plan is completely balmy. A business leisure park?
    Go around that small region and you will find dozens of business parks built in the last 5 years decaying, overgrown and up for sale. Where Polaris World’s glassy headquarters stand for example there are many such business premises shuttered up, growing weeds and abandoned to their fate. Monuments to the over optimistic credit fuelled times of this past decade.
    When will they ever learn? It seems optimism over rules common sense every time.

  • #100806
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    Anonymous
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    No denying what you are saying is relatively true. The Condado de Alhama Golf Resort has one finished golf course, a shopping centre with bar and restaurant, council offices and supermarket. There are no half built properties but there is land within the gated area still unbuilt. There are 3,000 plus properties and not all are sold, however unsold properties are not in long lines of empty apartments but merely dotted here and there about the resort. As it stands it is a perfectly acceptable, though smaller than originally planned, golf resort. The Condado de Alhama ll land which has been taken over by the banks stands directly to one side of the present resort and its true to say many owners (not all) see the Paramount idea as a saviour and property prices have already risen a modicum on property company web sites (not necessarily being purchased) though an on resort dealer sold two last week.

    Polaris obviously bit off more than they could chew- they are still in business and still building on other resorts but now have a sales office within Condado’s shopping centre and have closed down the larger sales centre at the entrance to the resort.

    As for the Paramount idea being part business and part leisure Park, it seems Paramount plan to set up a film and tv studio complex within the park.

    Who knows what the end result will be- Murcia city is still agitating for the theme park and their location could be the better of the two options. Putting aside the obvious funding concerns and potential for political gain owners on Condado have concerns that the project will get the go ahead but will founder during the build as so many business and organisations will remain vulnerable to over spend and liquidation for years to come. That could leave wherever ‘gets’ the park with an even uglier problem than exists at the moment.

    Corvera Airport is being built- that I have seen for myself- how long before it’s actually operational? Your guess is a good as mine, late 2011 seemed optimistic from what we saw, given testing etc.

    As for the information being released in February- it seems the potential for the park was discussed and confirmed in February. Then surveys have been done and visits exchanged and now the gathering of investors commences.

    I cant say if it will be a good thing or not as the concept seems to have more negatives than positives. Looking ahead I cant genuinely see the 3 million visitors per year. I can see half of Spain converging on the area looking for work!!

  • #100810
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    Anonymous
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    Hi Janha,

    thanks for the reply, but the matter still remains, why now? Why is entertainment and leisure always the only answer to unimaginative local government? I remember Michael Moore’s first documentary on his hometown of Flint, Michigan, in Roger and Me. GM pulled out of the town and everybody was made redundant. The town hall decided to install the world’s biggest indoor ferris wheel!
    Now, I don’t know how the situation was improved but I do know that is wasn’t down to an indoor big wheel and I’m sure as hell sure that a theme park in Alhama isn’t going to help.
    How many direct jobs to Terra Mitica bring to Alicante…probably no more than 100. The army of execs and other ridiculous posts took up the main body of staff and the main part of the budget! But its other peoples’ money, so who cares?
    Murcia has a very similar government to Valencia, Terra Mitica is also funded by CAM, Paramount also participated in TM…it’s Deja Vu so I just can’t help being very pessimistic about the whole silly idea.

  • #100812
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    katy
    Spectator

    its true to say many owners (not all) see the Paramount idea as a saviour and property prices have already risen a modicum on property company web sites (not necessarily being purchased) though an on resort dealer sold two last week.

    You couldn’t make it up could you 😆 😆 Anyone taking bets on this 😉

  • #100813
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    logan
    Participant

    Property prices there have fallen some 40% since early 2009. It’s a massive high density nasty development and reminds me of one of those huge mobile home parks along the cliffs at Skegness. I don’t doubt that some may be sold if the price is cheap enough. Horses for courses. Even at 75k, the current going price they are way too expensive. Probably have much further to fall unless the Paramount thingy halts the rot. 🙁

  • #100816
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks very much logan ” It’s a massive high density nasty development” it isnt at all like Skegness (have been there) or a massive caravan park (done those as well) and we like it and mainly because of the space. All very well if you had tons of money to buy some finca in the hills or isolated villa or even a villa on another development- but we didnt and wouldnt as we cant spend 12 months there yet. Plus we’d tried those isolated ‘relaxing ‘ properties and you have to drive everywhere and they’re not near golf which was important to some family members and so we found isolation not so very relaxing. We chose this and like it very much, the apartments are lovely, compact but lovely. Its all about personal choice and I wouldn’t dream of criticising any ones choice- you select for many reasons. As its a secure gated community you wont have actually been on the resort but commenting from the motorway view probably didn’t give you the whole picture.

    They are not selling at 75K- funnily enough those at that price aren’t selling as are generally side wall facing. The others of higher price range are, albeit slowly. We bought in 2008 and are not yet in negative equity despite falling prices which didn’t start until after our purchase. There’s no rot- its a pleasant golf resort with some fantastic golf course and mountain views. We could do with more facilities there’s no doubt about that and that’s what some owners are hoping will be the result of a Paramount deal. We like the area as is but can see that many owners see a Paramount deal as their rescue- after all many bought more than one apartment. Jury is still out on whether a leisure park on the doorstep is the way forward.

    Fully see that a leisure park in these constrained times isnt what Murcia probably needs- I expect the Local Govt have many reasons for going down this route and not all of them make too much sense. They’ll publicise the employment opportunities, and the investment opportunities and the growth opportunities but not much about the reality. I still see the future as being the bigger problem as I think one way or another and in one location or another this is going to happen- but whether it will actually get finished is another issue. So much potential for crash and burn sometime after the build begins.

    News today is that the banks and developers are haggling over land value- so still more to come on this story.

  • #100817
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Paramount deal is a dead duck and you speak just like an estate agent…which you probably are…I can smell ’em :mrgreen:

  • #100826
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I regret Janah you are mistaken. In early 2009 I went to your development after being offered an investment block of properties. I was appalled by the high density build, tiny living space of the apartments and the sheer number of properties.
    As an investor common sense and experience told me it was a lose, lose situation. Simple knowledge of economics tells you when there is over supply the value always falls.
    It was clear then Polaris were in trouble and had over reached themselves and the pie in the sky plans for the resort were unlikely to be ever built. I recall an artists impression of a huge island town centre, complete with hotels, medical centre et al. plus three championship golf courses. 😥 What now exists is a poor replacement.
    I am delighted that you are happy with your investment. As I said before ‘horses for courses’. Some people can be content living in the same space as an average garage. However many are not and now cannot sell without taking around a 40% loss. If you search the web it’s easy to find properties where an offer of 70k would have your hand snapped off.

    Here’s but one:-http://www.alhambravillas.com/web/en/searchEngine.php?content=5&loaded=yes&idvi=247630&idLang=1&newDevelopments=&salerental=&currency=

    To avoid bankruptcy Polaris handed over a large number of properties on your development to funding banks. When these banks decide they need to off load these properties to raise required capital under he new Basle 111 rules their value will fall further. Probably sell in my estimation for around 50-60K. To me that’s about all their market worth.
    The Paramount plan may or may not make a difference if it’s ever built. However the recession is heading for double dip in Europe and America. Banks will not be lending unless it is to finance what they already own.

  • #100836
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    Anonymous
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    Indoor ferris wheels, thats all I’m saying…

  • #100819
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    Anonymous
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  • #100820
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oh well, I suppose you are not being purposefully nasty, as you say horses for courses. A place in the sun was what we wanted and is exactly what we got and it isnt high density and living space isn’t tiny- we prefer ‘compact’ and the Jardins are quite lovely, so you are mistaken. In fact it probably could have been high density in 10 years or so but now that isnt likely to happen! But we do like what we bought and we looked at a good amount of property from Midina Sidonia, and Jerez across Costa del Sol to Nerja and Competa which was generally all over priced and often with licence problems sold by people out for a fast buck! If you are looking at 6 to 8 visits a year you choose accordingly. Who wouldnt want a luxury villa with pool in a very low denisity location- how many can afford that as a holiday home? Even successful writers have to budget for 2nd homes!

    If I sound like an estate agent its probably because I’m a writer by trade- but no, not an estate agent. As for property sales by the Banks- at Easter there were 25 unsold apartments in our Jardin now there are three- someone is buying! Double dip or no double dip.

    I’m not hugely in favour of the Paramount deal for the resort but if it was to bring investment and jobs locally it wouldnt be a bad thing though as I said before the chance of it failing after the build starts is more a concern. By all accounts its coming to Mucia and if not Condado then there are a couple of other locations close in the running.

  • #100845
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    As always on these forums, your focus Janha is on happy family holiday home. Mine is capital property investment for profit. The twain can never meet and because of these two diverse poles we have the potential for conflict.
    Your development suits you fine, I had no intention to rubbish either your personal choice or the potential there for a holiday.
    My interest in it was entirely different.
    What I need is a an agent free forum for property investment discussion and new markets. Can’t find one. 🙁 Come on Mark such a forums would attract lucrative advertising. 😀

  • #100862
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I yesterday had a chat from a guy who has a business consultancy firm in Murcia and is very up to speed with political and institutional goings on in the region.

    I brought up the matter of Paramount, and it all seems to be a lot of hype by a guy who has a long track record in speculative operations. The situation is there isn’t a penny available and the finance will be obtained from “international investors”.
    Now, the deal is that he has an option to buy on the land, so, if he makes enough noise and enough hype the investors should come out of the woodwork and he will sell on the option…without putting down a penny!

  • #101165
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    Anonymous
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    Condado de Alhama confirmed as the site for the new Leisure Park.

  • #101171
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Janha wrote:

    Condado de Alhama confirmed as the site for the new Leisure Park.

    Hi Janha,

    Any links for this.

    TIA

  • #101178
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Suggest you start reading from paragraph six before getting too excited:

    http://www.simplynetworking.es/news-3938-31-spanish_press_report_alhama_is_the_location_for.html

  • #101179
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for the link Charlie

  • #101182
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    This paragraph said it all. For ‘secrecy’ read under the table deals, backhanders and double dealing. 🙁
    Both Salvador Marin who heads up the government department handling the negotiations, and Jesus Samper himself both said that secrecy is still of the utmost importance, that nothing is final and they are still considering a number of options.

  • #101188
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Saw ‘Simply Networking’ before the news hit the forums.

    Not too excited- not sure would have originally purchased close to a theme park, and it is our intention to retire to CdA within 10 years so that would have been a consideration at the beginning.

    ‘Simply networking’ report was soon over taken by La Verdad article.

    However, all that has happened so far is that Condado de Alhama has been confirmed as the site for the theme park. Several billions of investment has to be found and they have a year to do that. But it has already seen a slow increase up in the sale of apartments- 19 in August and 27 in September- so from owners points of view it means PW may take note and improve some facilities and there are more owners to contribute to community charges. Of course many may just go back onto the market but residents are reporting a small resurgence of furniture van’s and appliance deliveries on the resort and they have been going to empty apartments residents didn’t realise had owners. If the news causes a renewed vibrancy to the resort and the region it’s not all bad. I am however, fully aware that many of these proposed projects don’t get beyond this point. So, we wait to see.

    see link:- http://condadodealhamaservices.com/blog/

  • #101202
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    katy
    Spectator

    Anyone offering any betting odds on this project going ahead….I fancy a little flutter 😆

  • #101205
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    1000 to 1 against 😉

  • #101302
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have just pulled out of a house purchase in Algorfa on the Costa Blanca which we were buying with my sister and brother in-law as we feel it will be a better investment to purchase a property in the Murcia area, now this project is going ahead. It was our second choice anyway.

    We shall be visiting the area near to Condado, Fuente Alamo – to look at a small villa. We know there is a possibility that corruption etc. could delay the start of the theme park, but, in the long run, I’m sure we will get the benefit of property and land value increases there.

    Is anyone else considering buying in the region because of the forthcoming airport or theme park? I would be interested in hearing the views of some of the investors who frequent this very good website.

    Thanks Rita.

  • #101304
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I would not buy any where in the world on the basis of what will be built in future. Certainly not in Spain. These projects are mostly political. Directly or indirectly & with the way the regions work in Spain becomes more of an issue.

  • #101305
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    Melosine
    Participant

    The ayuntamientos in Murcia are trying very hard to think of ideas in order to bring in revenue as much of this area is unknown outside of Spain and, as wonderful as I think it is, even the Spanish still regard Murcia as the unwanted ‘poor relation’.
    As much as I would love to believe these pipe dreams will one day become reality I fear in this economic climate it will not be.
    Buy here because you love it not with the thought that one day you will see a return on your investment because I doubt that will not happen for many a year, if ever.

  • #101456
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    Anonymous
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    A little bird told me yesterday that Paramount don’t want it in Alhama but much closer to Lorca where the Ave will be stopping ( in what year no one knows ). I’ll believe it when I see the construction start !

  • #102735
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Article today in El Pais (Spanish) explaining that Paramount aren’t going to invest a dime in this. If anything, they are going to charge for a licence. Also explains the political interests behind this story. Alberto Cruz – Murica’s culture minister – has said that this project will pull Murcia out of the economic crisis at a stroke. He has claimed they will make films there, including a remake of the sinking of the Titanic.

    http://www.elpais.com/articulo/reportajes/Murcia/entra/erupcion/elpepusocdmg/20110123elpdmgrep_6/Tes

  • #102745
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    Anonymous
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  • #102797
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Whoops, its not going to be built at Condado de Alhama but at what was to be Sierra Golf Alhama which is less than 5 mins from Condado de Alhama. This news has been met with relief by many Polaris World owners who haven’t wanted to live on or directly next to a theme park however innovative it is to be. The recent Fitur in Madrid seems to have enabled the deal to be closed- although investment is still being sort after. With around 3 Billion to raise for the theme park it’s still likely to be uncertain that the park actually becomes a reality. However in the last week soil sampling has been taking place across Condado de Alhama, an event not seen for almost 2 years and generally done prior to construction- so there are hopes that the potential of the theme park has triggered some life into taking facilities there to the next step. Sales of apartments are still ticking over and there has been renewed interest in various urbanisations locally. IRM stuck out for their 350 million euro’s for the spare Condado de Alhama land but loosing the theme park may not be such a bad thing for them, as demand for land from other developers may be a bonus of the theme park being minutes away. Of course any further residential building must be subject to market forces and real demand as a knock on of the proposed theme park bringing in new buyers and renewed interest in commercial ventures. The theme park itself will have a hotel and apartments and villa’s so it may be judged wise to see what interest there is in these before extending permission to other developers. Regionally there remains a glut of unsold property although some analysts have been reporting that Murcia has suffered less badly than other regions in this down turn.

    Paramount Park is not intended to be just a theme park; apparently it will be a base for a Paramount Studio complex, retail park and residential area’s. Therefore providing a lot of scope for long term employment in the area and in its design it will be different than the traditional theme park concept which will hopefully help it to avoid the problems other regional theme parks have suffered from. However, until the plans are available in April no-one really knows what this ‘difference’ will be.

    It’s difficult to say if such a project is going to work in this area (if it gets off the ground) but the new airport seems to be progressing and new the road and rails links can only improve transport and communication. If they build it lets hope people come!

  • #102799
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Information in ‘Simply Networking’ and also the daily ‘La Opinion’ (27/1/11)

  • #102556
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just thought this would be a little bit of a laugh…ah, forever the optimists…
    http://www.opp.org.uk/news_article.asp?id=4861&dm_i=H9C,D1VA,2EI9KI,114YI,1

  • #102497
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    They have to raise the investment by Dec 2 or the deal on the land has to be revisited. Elections are soon- so have to see if this disappears once elections are all done and dusted. Hard to believe the hype but if they actually do build then who knows? A couple of property companies including Polaris World have announced modest building programmes for this year too. Given the glut in the market and fall off in prices its hard to see where they feel their buyers will come from as the Theme Park also intends to build residential properties. But feedback from residents on CdA 1 is that they have a pretty regular stream of viewers passing through the various Jardins so maybe people are taking advantage of low prices. As usual property agents report positively; but they say January was a ‘good’ month for sales and that February is matching it so far with some apartments selling at 50% of their original price. Is this all a red herring and false stimulation for the local property market?

  • #102835
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @Janha wrote:

    . Is this all a red herring and false stimulation for the local property market?

    Answer -Yes.
    http://www.oportunidadescam.es/Apartamentos-en-Alhama_de_Murcia-2-dormitorios/5886/vivienda_7033.html

  • #102829
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://www.simplynetworking.es/news-5158-31-paramount_project_given_regional_tourist_interest_status.html

    Theme park reduced to 1.7 mill acres and to 700/800 million euro’s investment in the first phase. A further 1 million acres of land is held available for continued development. Potential for further additional land has been discussed (apparently) and it was claimed on ABC mid week last week that building will start within the year.

    acres!!! square metres…..

  • #103658
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
  • #103743
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramount_Parks
    Reading the history does not fill me with any investor confidence.

  • #103747
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m sorry but you guys can stop dreaming. Nothing will ever happen except a few more “dreamers” buy an apartment or two over there. Hopefully they won’t do it because of these news. If there was any truth in this everything would be sold behind closed doors as usual when something attractive is about to happen in Spain. These politicians should be charged for fraud if nothing happens to it.

    When I worked down there we sold a few of these 2 bed room apartments for around 90k euros and that was under less then a year ago. Didn’t know they had sliced the prices down even lower to 70k now. We actually avoided trying to bring people out there but if they insisted on it we ofcourse showed it. We also always told them on before hand that these project had had lots of problems and they could face even more future ones. The apartments in themselves ain’t bad. Quite efficiently planned. I also think it’s pretty nice having the golf course so close status wise but is it practical? Every golfer I know likes to play at different golf courses and not the same one all the time. What does 5-10 minutes in a car matter when you still need a car to live out in these areas? I also want to add that I don’t play golf myself since I could never find the spare time for it. The people that bought from us where in the clear that nothing else then what was built would be completed so in such I don’t feel bad about them buying. What would scare me the most is what will happen with the monthly fees if one want to keep the area in shape when the rest is sold.. if it ever is. Those fees where calculated on the basis that there would be lots and lots of more people sharing the costs. Tried to ask the sellers at Polaris World “The banks” if they had thought about this situation and they couldn’t guarantee anything. My opinion is either you jack up the fees or just let big parts go to slumber.

    Have any normal stores even opened up out there? For me who is not their targets audience I guess the value would be around 35-40k. Or at least that is when I could buy one just to have it as a lottery ticket sort of and i would never in a million year expect that theme park to be built.

    Janha please shed some lights on the fees if you can. Have you and your neighbours discussed this?

  • #103775
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Since early last year we are about 50 euro’s per month for Community Charges, so 10 euro’s over what our PW rep told us (and which we didnt believe) Local authority have taken over maintenance of the huge outer ring road which has helped negotiate down Community Charges and we have good administrators who have got us great deals on services and security. At present we are paying under 220 euro’s per month for mortgage, utility bills and Community Charges combined- well within our planned budget to own a property in Spain and we bought in 2008. Property prices have slumped but those much lower priced apartments are often those end ones facing a side wall or an emergency sale; usually 85,000-90,000 euro’s seems average for the 2 beds and 95,000+ for the 3 beds and Penthouse’s. I think the 2 bed 2 bath detached villas are around 169,000 euro’s.

    Paramount Resort is to be 4 k away- size of 39 football pitches, leisure park based around film genre, water park, 4 hotels across various budgets, open air auditorium for outdoor events.

    Did you see the presentation two weeks back Youtube and tv? Land agreed, Licences approved, building supposed to start at the end of 2011. Maybe, maybe, not as that is all based on funding which has been reduced from the original billion odd budget so apparently more likely to be achieved. Expected to open 2015 and will provide 10,000 jobs to the region during the build- if it does that you can’t consider that a negative for the region.

    Corvera Airport on target to open spring 2012. I haven’t been there recently but neighbours have and said visually it looks like an airport now and roads , tower, terminal, car parks all in place and the place was a hive of activity. Fingers crossed.

    50 % Bank stock now sold on the resort also seen a rise in private sales across the resort, that has come from the Banks not agents. Lots of interest generally apparently according to who you speak to but agents will always say that wont they. As an example: since Easter 2010 our block of 12 apartments are now all taken, last Easter 2010 there were 5 unsold. Only one of those sales has been since Dec 2010 but across the whole Jardin there’s more evidence of new owners and that does seem to be replicated across the resort although Oct to March is invariably quieter. Maybe people are speculating but they know how things are at the present and that Paramount cant be a done deal until the actual building starts, so it is their choice.

    We have a restaurant that opens Easter to Sept, a large bar/pub that also does food, a supermarket, administration offices and a golf shop in the main shopping area as well as a Polaris World sales office. Olagolf are building a clubhouse and a private venture is planning to take over the sports zone which would reopen all the courts and the cafe. The La Isla part of the resort has a new telecoms system going in and a new club house in the pipeline and I’m told a further pool. Additional tree’s and shrubs have just been planted across the resort. In the summer season Polaris organise party nights, bbq’s and entertainment in the bar area and other times we have regular music and events throughout the year in the bar.

    We have nothing half built and the golf is well managed now by Olagolf with regular Canal+ competions. There are swathes of land that are not built on but they are not an eyesore. Obviously we’d like the other units in the shopping centre open but that will need more than the 400 full time residents to make it viable to Polaris World in the current market, they still own the shopping area. We’re 15 minutes from Puerto Mazarron which has seen huge regeneration of the harbour area so is a great place for a wander and for shopping, 30 mins from Cartagena which is a fabulous town also recently under gone a refurb.

    Its a lovely resort although obviously there should be more properties and the facilities need some development but most people dont feel we have come out of this slow down too badly. Be worse if the essentials weren’t finished or we had skeletons of half built buildings next door or on the sky line- as it is we have wonderful views! When the few things in the pipeline come together that will further improve living there. No doubt it needs big investment to take it to where the original 1st phase plans imagined, but we love it there. Cant see Polaris taking it back to the original plans any way as the time limits will have run out for planning permissions so opens up other opportunities to them although they’ll have to buy back in so maybe another developer will be a way forward in the future. Our view and those of our friends and neighbours will be different that that of someone who bought to flip or to rent out. They wanted the mega facilities as first promised but cest la vie. Those area’s have undoubtedly suffered though not just on CdA – so Paramount would be tremendous for those owners.

  • #103778
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Janha wrote:

    Since early last year we are about 50 euro’s per month for Community Charges, so 10 euro’s over what our PW rep told us (and which we didnt believe) Local authority have taken over maintenance of the huge outer ring road which has helped negotiate down Community Charges and we have good administrators who have got us great deals on services and security. At present we are paying under 220 euro’s per month for mortgage, utility bills and Community Charges combined- well within our planned budget to own a property in Spain and we bought in 2008. Property prices have slumped but those much lower priced apartments are often those end ones facing a side wall or an emergency sale; usually 85,000-90,000 euro’s seems average for the 2 beds and 95,000+ for the 3 beds and Penthouse’s. I think the 2 bed 2 bath detached villas are around 169,000 euro’s.

    Paramount Resort is to be 4 k away- size of 39 football pitches, leisure park based around film genre, water park, 4 hotels across various budgets, open air auditorium for outdoor events.

    Did you see the presentation two weeks back Youtube and tv? Land agreed, Licences approved, building supposed to start at the end of 2011. Maybe, maybe, not as that is all based on funding which has been reduced from the original billion odd budget so apparently more likely to be achieved. Expected to open 2015 and will provide 10,000 jobs to the region during the build- if it does that you can’t consider that a negative for the region.

    Corvera Airport on target to open spring 2012. I haven’t been there recently but neighbours have and said visually it looks like an airport now and roads , tower, terminal, car parks all in place and the place was a hive of activity. Fingers crossed.

    50 % Bank stock now sold on the resort also seen a rise in private sales across the resort, that has come from the Banks not agents. Lots of interest generally apparently according to who you speak to but agents will always say that wont they. As an example: since Easter 2010 our block of 12 apartments are now all taken, last Easter 2010 there were 5 unsold. Only one of those sales has been since Dec 2010 but across the whole Jardin there’s more evidence of new owners and that does seem to be replicated across the resort although Oct to March is invariably quieter. Maybe people are speculating but they know how things are at the present and that Paramount cant be a done deal until the actual building starts, so it is their choice.

    We have a restaurant that opens Easter to Sept, a large bar/pub that also does food, a supermarket, administration offices and a golf shop in the main shopping area as well as a Polaris World sales office. Olagolf are building a clubhouse and a private venture is planning to take over the sports zone which would reopen all the courts and the cafe. The La Isla part of the resort has a new telecoms system going in and a new club house in the pipeline and I’m told a further pool. Additional tree’s and shrubs have just been planted across the resort. In the summer season Polaris organise party nights, bbq’s and entertainment in the bar area and other times we have regular music and events throughout the year in the bar.

    We have nothing half built and the golf is well managed now by Olagolf with regular Canal+ competions. There are swathes of land that are not built on but they are not an eyesore. Obviously we’d like the other units in the shopping centre open but that will need more than the 400 full time residents to make it viable to Polaris World in the current market, they still own the shopping area. We’re 15 minutes from Puerto Mazarron which has seen huge regeneration of the harbour area so is a great place for a wander and for shopping, 30 mins from Cartagena which is a fabulous town also recently under gone a refurb.

    Its a lovely resort although obviously there should be more properties and the facilities need some development but most people dont feel we have come out of this slow down too badly. Be worse if the essentials weren’t finished or we had skeletons of half built buildings next door or on the sky line- as it is we have wonderful views! When the few things in the pipeline come together that will further improve living there. No doubt it needs big investment to take it to where the original 1st phase plans imagined, but we love it there. Cant see Polaris taking it back to the original plans any way as the time limits will have run out for planning permissions so opens up other opportunities to them although they’ll have to buy back in so maybe another developer will be a way forward in the future. Our view and those of our friends and neighbours will be different that that of someone who bought to flip or to rent out. They wanted the mega facilities as first promised but cest la vie. Those area’s have undoubtedly suffered though not just on CdA – so Paramount would be tremendous for those owners.

    Sounds good for the area I really hope everything turns out well. I heard rumours that they had closed down certain things like the Tennis courts etc? Any truth to that? If I really liked living there I would as quickly as possible try to snatch up the things that are actually owned by PW but not really well maintained. Those are the things they have deemed not worth doing and you as a collective could probably buy it really cheap.

    What are the resale prices going for? Have Polaris tried to limit people from advertising re sales etc?

  • #103780
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    A private group are hoping to be able to buy the sports zone, they are canvassing for opinions on their annual prices. Obviously they have to budget and meet a 1.9 million euro mortgage. The zone is technically closed down but the courts are actually open and people use them with their own equipment. Hard for an outside company to buy in as not enough residents to keep it going in the quiet months and their sort of charges are probably more than most people who dont visit regularly want to get into. But it can be opened up to the local community for a membership fee. As it already exists with everything in place its got great possibilities if Paramount happens and causes an upturn in sales and in visitors. There’s a cafe, showers, offices and an room that was a gym as well as the various courts. There isnt anything else they built but no longer own, they still own the Al Kasar shopping area and the golf course is leased to Olagolf. There’s a quite a lot of surrounding land that’s more likely to be of interest to land speculators and large plots within phase 1.

    Haven’t any day to day idea of current resale prices and property prices have slumped but those much lower priced apartments are often those end ones facing a side wall or an emergency sale; usually 85,000-90,000 euro’s seems average for the 2 beds and 95,000+ for the 3 beds and Penthouse’s. I think the 2 bed 2 bath detached villas are around 169,000 euro’s. Probably room for negotiation in there too. No restrictions as far as I’m aware on selling any resale property- a few of the keyholders have a ‘sale’ arm to their business as do some of the people who have properties advertised for rental.

    Although the resort hasnt developed as 1st expected the turning point was getting rid of the Polaris appointed administrators 18 months or so ago. From that point things started to sort themselves out and Community Charges gradually reduced and they keep on top of all the services and issues. I think many people accept that Polaris may have ‘left the building’ as all the unbuilt land belongs to the Banks, so another developer needs to come in to take the resort further in terms of more apartments. But with so much unsold stock countrywide who’s going to do that? So maybe we are just going to be a smaller resort than anticipated.

    However if Paramount happens Polaris may consider buying back into Phase 1 and taking on some further development around the golf course- there was a rumour to that effect. The only reason the rumour could have some substance is that it suggested front line golf villa’s which is what CdA hasn’t got and so wouldn’t compete with properties already on the resort. Polaris have started building another 400 properties on other Polaris World Resorts but I think lots of owners would be happier for another developer to come on board- unlikely though as phase 1 is very clearly Polaris World’s Condado. de Alhama!.

  • #103783
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    What happened to the main backer and licence holder of the Parmount project Jesus Semper? I understood he and his companies were ‘helping police with their enquires’ into money laundering, town hall corruption and other nefarious and illegal activity.
    I realise this kind of thing is an occupation inconvenience in Spain but it does reveal the sort of people behind this grandiose idea.
    His companies as far as I can see are still seeking investors to the tune of €100 million so assuming it’s a done deal is premature.
    Paramount who are not funding anything and are simply lending its name have an end date clause of 2015. If it’s not completed they walk away.

  • #103785
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, its not a done deal.

    They have till 2012 to gather the 350 mill funding or it all has to be revisited. “Emblematic projects Murcianos was born with a capital of one million euros, 800,000 provided by Samper, who is a partner through Santa Monica Financial, while the Institute of Development invested 10,000 and the Tourist Region of Murcia, another 10,000. ” (http://www.condadodealhamaservices.com) So he’s an originator of the project, spokesperson and involved in the set up. I had heard he was involved in an investigation mid 2010 but nothing since. Suggestion was an attempt to damage the project and the reason the presentation wasnt made properly at Madrid earlier this year was that the other front person was attacked and injured.

    Who knows what will happen many big projects such as this never get beyond the drawing board? Paramount are only giving their name and licence to use their films as an integral part of the project they are not funding anything. A lot of money has been spent so far so you’d hope they are genuine about this- which includes bringing Corvera airport off the back burner and getting approval for the high speed rail link Murcia to Cartegena and buying up land for that rail link. But time will tell. Meanwhile we like the resort, glad we didnt go for the three or four apartments that were part of the 1st ‘dream’ idea of running a small rental company but if we had the money available now might have been persuaded to have a punt on another=probably a golf view penthouse.

  • #106079
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Posted this elsewhere but would be interested in other opinions- we are considering to buy 1 maybe 2 further properties, even bring family in but are naturally cautious. Whether to run as a rental business or to sell on… not sure yet. But, at the moment the Theme Park just exists as a video presentation and a fine bit of real estate. This presentation was part of a major ‘sell’ earlier this week in Madrid. Alicante airport has had real investment and is a major airport, Corvera is to open Spring 2012. Before anyone says Corvera lies derelict and nothing is happening- that’s untrue and I’ve seen the development recently- it moves on apace. High speed rail link also set for 2013 Murcia to Madrid. But, they need 1 Billion……….

    http://www.premursa.com/web/e_index.php?lang=eng

    By the by- on CdA the sports zone and 2nd bar re- opened this month. Main shopping area Al Kasar has new units taken up and an internet company has been getting the ‘net into all apartments that wanted them. Golf club house still awaited but a 2 storey Polaris World sales office, with upper balcony area is to be revamped and re sited with landscaping. How’s that for being ‘green’? Was smart enough 1st time around so a revamp should make it work for a golf club house. So although the resort isnt as ‘sold’ in 2006-2008 slow but steady progress has been made and Puerto Mazarron (15 mins from the resort) has had major investment so has lots of new portside bars and restaurants.

  • #105879
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Posted this elsewhere but would be interested in other opinions- we are considering to buy 1 maybe 2 further properties, even bring family in but are naturally cautious. Whether to run as a rental business or to sell on… not sure yet. But, at the moment the Theme Park just exists as a video presentation and a fine bit of real estate. This presentation was part of a major ‘sell’ earlier this week in Madrid. Alicante airport has had real investment and is a major airport, Corvera is to open Spring 2012. Before anyone says Corvera lies derelict and nothing is happening- that’s untrue and I’ve seen the development recently- it moves on apace. High speed rail link also set for 2013 Murcia to Madrid. But, they need 1 Billion……….

    http://www.premursa.com/web/e_index.php?lang=eng

    By the by- on CdA the sports zone and 2nd bar re- opened this month. Main shopping area Al Kasar has new units taken up and an internet company has been getting the ‘net into all apartments that wanted them. Golf club house still awaited but a 2 storey Polaris World sales office, with upper balcony area is to be revamped and re sited with landscaping. How’s that for being ‘green’? Was smart enough 1st time around so a revamp should make it work for a golf club house. So although the resort isnt as ‘sold’ in 2006-2008 slow but steady progress has been made and Puerto Mazarron (15 mins from the resort) has had major investment so has lots of new portside bars and restaurants.

  • #106084
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    You never give up trying to milk the forum do you 😆 😆 😆 Do you think we are stupid enough not to recognise trimmed up sales patter 🙄

  • #105884
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    You never give up trying to milk the forum do you 😆 😆 😆 Do you think we are stupid enough not to recognise trimmed up sales patter 🙄

  • #106087
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I must admit I also suspect Janha motives in constantly talking up this project.
    If this were 2005 instead of late 2011 I would say the Paramount project had an even chance of getting off the ground. Then there were shed loads of cheap money sloshing around looking for a home.
    Many urbanisations were built in Murcia on credit including Janha’s golf resort. Most have gone bust with banks owning the golf courses and a huge number of properties. The region is currently in serious economic decline.
    Had the Theme park been built at the time the same fate would have happened and that too would now be a none performing bank asset nobody would touch with a barge pole.
    The promoters of this thing of whom Janha is but one, constantly attempt to talk up the likely knock on positive effects of a theme park on their door step.
    Do they really believe Joe Bloggs and his family say “look there is a theme park here lets go there for our 2 weeks holiday”?
    They mention the fact that a new airport is being built nearby. There is already a perfectly good international airport at St Javier, 15 minutes away on excellent roads which is due for closure.
    The truth is that nobody whose sane has any money to fund this project, not the banks, not the regional government, not Paramount, not even Jesus Semper.
    We are currently living through the worst economic crash in the history of the industrialised world. Countries are battling to avoid bankruptcy. The last thing Spain needs right now is another ‘white elephant’ Theme park costing millions. Most of the others don’t make any money and do very little to enhance tourism in the area where they are.
    In my view this project will remain just that like Godo waiting to happen.

  • #105887
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I must admit I also suspect Janha motives in constantly talking up this project.
    If this were 2005 instead of late 2011 I would say the Paramount project had an even chance of getting off the ground. Then there were shed loads of cheap money sloshing around looking for a home.
    Many urbanisations were built in Murcia on credit including Janha’s golf resort. Most have gone bust with banks owning the golf courses and a huge number of properties. The region is currently in serious economic decline.
    Had the Theme park been built at the time the same fate would have happened and that too would now be a none performing bank asset nobody would touch with a barge pole.
    The promoters of this thing of whom Janha is but one, constantly attempt to talk up the likely knock on positive effects of a theme park on their door step.
    Do they really believe Joe Bloggs and his family say “look there is a theme park here lets go there for our 2 weeks holiday”?
    They mention the fact that a new airport is being built nearby. There is already a perfectly good international airport at St Javier, 15 minutes away on excellent roads which is due for closure.
    The truth is that nobody whose sane has any money to fund this project, not the banks, not the regional government, not Paramount, not even Jesus Semper.
    We are currently living through the worst economic crash in the history of the industrialised world. Countries are battling to avoid bankruptcy. The last thing Spain needs right now is another ‘white elephant’ Theme park costing millions. Most of the others don’t make any money and do very little to enhance tourism in the area where they are.
    In my view this project will remain just that like Godo waiting to happen.

  • #106094
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Have been asking genuine questions but most posters are real suspicious. Think because someone can string more than five words together you all see ‘patter’. Have nothing to do with any business or agency just an owner but would like to develop something for ourselves, create a small business, apartment prices are around £80,000-85,000 after IVA. Slowly this resort is moving ahead- can’t deny Polaris have cut and run but the Banks have taken back what they can and new investors have been found for the sports zone and bar area- this reopens 14th Oct. The main shopping area has new outlets (Indian restaurant, pizzeria and a bakery) due to open as the Banks have cut the rental and moves are afoot to develop the golf club house. There’s already the supermarket and a bar. When they achieve 700 full time residents buses etc will be set up from Alhama de Murcia- there are 3,200 owners but many aren’t resident or haven’t signed the padron. I know there’s masses of undeveloped land on the resort but what is built is contained and attractive and has no skeletons of half built projects

    Corvera Airport is 25 minutes away and due to open Spring 2012 and as a result San Javier will revert back to being a military airport- disappointing no doubt to everyone who bought within a 15 minute drive in the last 10-15 years.

    Personally find the Paramount Park video and blurb unrealistic in the current market ( it would be fantastic for the area if that were different) but thought it worth sharing with the forum- there may be a nugget in there for someone.

  • #105894
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Have been asking genuine questions but most posters are real suspicious. Think because someone can string more than five words together you all see ‘patter’. Have nothing to do with any business or agency just an owner but would like to develop something for ourselves, create a small business, apartment prices are around £80,000-85,000 after IVA. Slowly this resort is moving ahead- can’t deny Polaris have cut and run but the Banks have taken back what they can and new investors have been found for the sports zone and bar area- this reopens 14th Oct. The main shopping area has new outlets (Indian restaurant, pizzeria and a bakery) due to open as the Banks have cut the rental and moves are afoot to develop the golf club house. There’s already the supermarket and a bar. When they achieve 700 full time residents buses etc will be set up from Alhama de Murcia- there are 3,200 owners but many aren’t resident or haven’t signed the padron. I know there’s masses of undeveloped land on the resort but what is built is contained and attractive and has no skeletons of half built projects

    Corvera Airport is 25 minutes away and due to open Spring 2012 and as a result San Javier will revert back to being a military airport- disappointing no doubt to everyone who bought within a 15 minute drive in the last 10-15 years.

    Personally find the Paramount Park video and blurb unrealistic in the current market ( it would be fantastic for the area if that were different) but thought it worth sharing with the forum- there may be a nugget in there for someone.

  • #107305
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Here is the promotional video for the “Paramount Park and Lifestyle Centre” in Condado de Alaham (in Spanish)

    [youtube:3uwwnzia]qv8PgsKaIGw[/youtube:3uwwnzia]

  • #107307
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    More information here also:-

    http://www.simplynetworking.es/news-10030-31-paramount_park_murcia_plans_presented.html

    It remains difficult to see that the vast amount of investment will be forthcoming in these difficult times, however the project does seem to be pushing forward at least in the media and at no little cost to the promoters.

    Whilst some posters on the forums have been negative about the impact of this proposal on property sales and its true they have not achieved pre 2008 levels they do continue to tick over in the Alhama de Murcia area giving hope that once work actually starts there will be an influx of speculators.

    The Condado de Alhama Resort which is less than 5 km from Paramount Park has seen slow but steady sales throughout this year. This gives owners and residents hope that Paramount Park will see the resort develop (maybe not to the original 15,000 properties and 3 golf course Polaris World designs) rather than stagnate. Since being taken over by the Bank consortium the Al Kasar shopping mall now has units available at much more viable rentals and with less restriction than in the Polaris World days giving rise to a range of enquiries and allegedly new proprietors vying to open outlets. Other local developments are also seeing some limited improvement in their sales and enquiries.

    With Lorca, Murcia and Catagena (with its cruiser terminal) all within equal distance to the park and a new airport, Corvera, about to open, there’s a lot hanging on the Park happening- in terms of jobs in the region and opportunities.

    We didnt buy in the expectation of being close to a theme park and as none renters probably it isn’t our ideal (we’ll have to see) but it terms of regeneration for the region we have our fingers crossed.

  • #107311
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    😆 😆 😆

  • #107312
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    With construction trade in the doldrums, massive unemployment and the problems with the euro I didnt expect any other response. Its a mega project and other regions think it should have gone to them and if it goes ahead it wont be complete till 2015- plenty of time for problems. Find it unrealistic for speculators to want to put money into land purchase or property anyway right now and there’s a glut of key ready properties and ‘5*’ Hotels all vying for customers before this project adds to those.

    But, if they get the funding…….

  • #107320
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Janha wrote:

    With construction trade in the doldrums, massive unemployment and the problems with the euro I didnt expect any other response. Its a mega project and other regions think it should have gone to them and if it goes ahead it wont be complete till 2015- plenty of time for problems. Find it unrealistic for speculators to want to put money into land purchase or property anyway right now and there’s a glut of key ready properties and ‘5*’ Hotels all vying for customers before this project adds to those.

    But, if they get the funding…….

    😆 😆 😆 😆

  • #108070
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    The company behind this project Premursa have announced the purchase of 1,000,000m2 of land in the area of Murcia where the theme park is planned.
    The company have a web site http://www.premursa.com/web/accionistas.php?lang=eng
    The shareholder list includes public entities despite initial denials that any public funding for the project would be involved. 80% of the shareholding is a financial services company in California involving presumably private venture capital.
    I’m still sceptical that enough funding will be found to complete the founders vision. Any return on invested capital will take a lifetime to come back, it’s bonkers.
    Perhaps the answer is the Californians who are putting up the cash have little understanding of this part of Spain. Or they take a very long view of investment. 🙄 🙄

  • #108071
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    There is another theme park being planned in Malaga:
    ‘…The Peñarroya group, headed by Cristobal Peñarroya announced proposals to build what they are claiming will be the largest Theme Park in Europe, the park plans to cover an area of 250 hectares, and will be dedicated exclusively for rides and attractions, as opposed to having facilities for business delegates. The project, which will be built in Malaga, Andalusia “will come backed by a U.S. cinema corporation with experience with amusement parks”, said the group owner, Christopher Peñarroya.

    Although no specific location for the park has been given, it is believed that it will be situated between two larger Towns in the east of the Province.

    The Peñarroya group is in the final stages of securing funding from a German financial institution to provide the money needed for investment. It was also suggested that the project would “create up to 12,000 jobs due to the hotels, which would in turn accommodate 12,000 guests.” Specific details are thin on the ground at this early stage, but it is not difficult to draw parallels between this (proposed) project, and the Paramount Pictures Theme Park being constructed by Premursa at Alhamo de Murcia…’

    This quote is from November 2011.

  • #108073
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    If you believe all the pre-publicity Spain is going to be overrun with the things. When will it dawn on investors that THEY DON’T MAKE MONEY. 😈

  • #108079
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’d have to agree that building another theme park only a few hours away from the Murcian park doesnt make much sense- especially as there’s so much doubt over whether any of them are ever successful and when they are all using the same client pool. The Murcian park isn’t just planned to be mega fairground rides though. Thats just one section, the rest is supposed to be a lifestyle centre with hotels, apartments, spas and an outdoor auditorium plus a water park and business centre. Its now claimed construction will start in May 2012. As to Hotels and apartments there’s still a glut of empty rooms and properties, creating more doesnt seem a viable business proposition.

    Some modest speculatory property purchases have been evident in the Alhama region judging by property forums but there’s little to suggest people are taking it too seriously yet.

    To make any of this work they need to look at airfare prices which have shown a steady increase over the last 12/18 months.

  • #108080
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @logan wrote:

    The company behind this project Premursa have announced the purchase of 1,000,000m2 of land in the area of Murcia where the theme park is planned.
    The company have a web site http://www.premursa.com/web/accionistas.php?lang=eng
    The shareholder list includes public entities despite initial denials that any public funding for the project would be involved. 80% of the shareholding is a financial services company in California involving presumably private venture capital.
    I’m still sceptical that enough funding will be found to complete the founders vision. Any return on invested capital will take a lifetime to come back, it’s bonkers.
    Perhaps the answer is the Californians who are putting up the cash have little understanding of this part of Spain. Or they take a very long view of investment. 🙄 🙄

    All sounds like the same hype. The Santa Monica financial company is actually registered in Madrid and was set up less than 3 years ago. It’s stated purpose is “Provision and advice and financial management, investment with respect to products in connection with commercial transactions”…bet there is a link somewhere with Premursa. Just made it look as if they have a large investor onboard.The investment needed is billions and all they have done is exercised their option to buy the land . If anyone buys in that area on the basis of this they would have to be bonkers.

  • #108082
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Land deal has been signed for Murcia this week, construction to start in May. Corvera to take fights from autumn- according to reports.

    As for property I can only report on our resort which is (at the moment) the closest to the Paramount Park project, but there have been slow but constant and regular sales of apartments in the last 18 months,
    We’re a relatively small development of 3,500 apartments and 2 bed villa’s and I know what we offer isnt everyone’s cup of tea- but the resort looks good and the apartments an villa’s are worth a punt- prices are so low.

  • #108110
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Good political perspective here:
    http://www.murciatoday.com/pedro-cruz-gets-a-roasting-in-the-regional-assembly-over-paramount._10867-a.html
    I agree with the opposition parties when they used the word ‘farce’.

    Janha.
    I understand your wish to talk up the investment you have made and I wish you luck. However I have been to your development with a view to making a substantial investment. First in the early stages of Polaris World development and more recently. On both occasions did I for one moment believe there was any cause for optimism the project would be successful. There are simply too many negatives not least the crappy buildings they built.

  • #108117
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Thanks for the link. Interesting and it also reveals the link between Samper and the (supposed) American investor 😆

    I suspect that it will be as someone said just a tool to sell property in the area.

  • #108083
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Logan, thanks for your considered opinion.

    We looked at many developments prior to our purchase and often they were priced far too high for what they offered. It is true that CdA doesn’t offer much individuality but it does offer opportunity. If speculators and money grabbers hadn’t been so greedy to mark up every property then maybe we would all have our detached villa in our own olive/lemon grove- but avarice won the day. That said our little apartment is better quality than many we looked at with a terrific roof terrace than many A* apartments and villa’s didn’t have, so it meets our needs. Its also unfair to comment that the buildings are crappy , in fact hard to believe you’ve been anywhere near them as the development is really attractive. But we have different agenda’s no doubt.

    Paramount Park may not happen yet it seems unlikely that 15 odd million euro’s would be spent on land purchase otherwise -as on 7/3/2012. I dare say the dinosaurs amongst posters will say its happened before- maybe. But for the region I hope its a genuine positive move forward. As for Logan, I hope you’ve missed out. Hasta la vista.

  • #108084
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @Janha wrote:

    Paramount Park may not happen yet it seems unlikely that 15 odd million euro’s would be spent on land purchase otherwise -as on 7/3/2012. I dare say the dinosaurs amongst posters will say its happened before- maybe. But for the region I hope its a genuine positive move forward. As for Logan, I hope you’ve missed out. Hasta la vista.

    It’s a case of ‘horses for courses’ Janha. The materials and fittings PW used were bog standard. The small flats for that’s what they are, not houses are pokey inside, tiny floor space, minuscule bathroom with the upper floor staircase restricting head room and kitchen in the living rooms where you cannot swing a cat. Buildings so close together you can shake hands with the neighbours, I could go on.
    It’s particularly sad since Polaris had so much land there they could have created, with a little imagination something worth while.
    At around 60K now they are probably approaching what in reality they are worth but another 15/20% decrease must be on the cards.
    The Paramount thing is a red herring. The land can always be sold on later after the recession ends back to a reserected development company such as PW when hey fail to get the backing they need.
    I am pleased you are happy with your investment but don’t try and persuade anyone Condado de Alhama is a desirable place to live, holiday or invest.

  • #108166
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Janha wrote:

    Logan, thanks for your considered opinion.

    We looked at many developments prior to our purchase and often they were priced far too high for what they offered. It is true that CdA doesn’t offer much individuality but it does offer opportunity. If speculators and money grabbers hadn’t been so greedy to mark up every property then maybe we would all have our detached villa in our own olive/lemon grove- but avarice won the day. That said our little apartment is better quality than many we looked at with a terrific roof terrace than many A* apartments and villa’s didn’t have, so it meets our needs. Its also unfair to comment that the buildings are crappy , in fact hard to believe you’ve been anywhere near them as the development is really attractive. But we have different agenda’s no doubt.

    Paramount Park may not happen yet it seems unlikely that 15 odd million euro’s would be spent on land purchase otherwise -as on 7/3/2012. I dare say the dinosaurs amongst posters will say its happened before- maybe. But for the region I hope its a genuine positive move forward. As for Logan, I hope you’ve missed out. Hasta la vista.

    I have brought many clients to “this” project that was always suckered in by it’s “cheap” prices. No matter what you told them they still wanted to see it and luckily only one family bought an apartment there against my recommendation “Think it was around 95k which was way lower from what they asked at the beginning of the project”. I’m not saying everything is crap and I could actually see myself buying something there in the future when everything has cleared up. At the moment I wouldn’t buy if it wasn’t insanely reduced to around “10-20k?”.

    This is just the normal efforts by business men in Spain to hype up a project.

    Good luck with everything and I hope you have worked out the quirks with who takes cares of the sporting area etc.

  • #108202
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This article from the latest edition of OPP. And it’s not even yet 1 April 😉 They must be warming up.

    No other EU property location can match Murcia says PRS
    23 March 2012 10:33

    Another Spanish overseas property professional is predicting that home values and rental prices in the Murcia and Almeria regions of Spain are rising sharply with the news that the Paramount theme park is under construction.

    Speaking exclusively to OPP this week, Managing Director of Property Repossessions Spain (PRS) Peter Birkett said: “Murcia and Almeria have always provided good value compared with the more developed Costas but now with the new theme park, airport and high speed train no other location in Europe can currently match their capital appreciation and rental potential”.

    With the bullet train from Madrid extending its route to reach the area in 2014 and the new International Airport at Corvera adjacent, Paramount Park is expected to bring an extra three million holidaymakers each year when it is opened in 2015. “Now is the perfect time for investors to buy in the area, as prices are expected to rise dramatically between now and 2015”, he added.
    Paramount Park is also expected to boost rental returns in the region. “Spain is a well-established tourist destination and many people find their mortgage costs for the year are covered by renting their holiday homes out for just a couple of months or so. The new theme park is going to make properties in south eastern Spain an even better investment as the high season will be extended to 33 weeks of the year”, said Birkett.

    PRS is anticipating huge interest in the heavily-discounted, repossessed properties it markets at next week’s A Place In The Sun exhibition at Earl’s Court. Typical two-bedroom apartments near Paramount Park are offered at a discount of more than EUR150,000, with the down payment starts as low as EUR5,000.

  • #108204
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    European politicians such as Mario Monti and the like are also talking up the EU economy and virtually saying the crisis is over. This on a day when Spain returns to two negative quarters of growth. Markets however don’t believe a word of it.

    I liken such statement to the bull s**t in Marks post above, written by ad or mad men and agents which has absolutely no basis in fact and which unfortunately does persuade a few of the unworldly with spare cash.

    This theme park has no investors willing to part with the sums needed. They have acquired land options which they will sell back to developers or banks when the recession ends.
    Their glossy promotions may convince a few gullible Americans and Murciano politicians but that’s where it ends. They may even start laying a few bricks hoping to boost confidence in who knows who.

    Unless and until the EU economies start moving again with real and meaningful growth and banks start lending will anything in property or leisure be shaken from it’s moribund state.

  • #108209
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    For investment potential I think the name says it all… 😀

    Property Repossessions Spain

  • #108218
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The real story to watch is Euro-Vegas in Barcelona or Madrid, promoted by Sheldon Adelson and his Las Vegas Sands Corp. That’ll be big news if it comes off.
    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-03/D9TOQDIO0.htm

  • #108227
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    This Paramount Theme Park in Murcia story is nothing but a red herring.

    The real story to watch is Euro-Vegas in Barcelona or Madrid, promoted by Sheldon Adelson and his Las Vegas Sands Corp. That’ll be big news if it comes off.
    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-03/D9TOQDIO0.htm

    That is a totally different thing. Adelson actually have the money to do what he says but he will squeze everyone dry before he parts with his money. He is an evil man though. Look at his popularity http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2107952_2107959_2107960,00.html

    830 thinks he deserves to be on that list and 5518 don’t=). Hard to find someone else on that list with that ration.

  • #108292
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Didn’t someone say the Corvera airport was about to open! now put back until next summer, what a farce. Same will happen to Eurovegas too. Interesting that Spain first approached the Las Vegas sands co. Similar to the Paramount project…fields of dreams from desperate politicians!

  • #109954
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    News just out that Terra Mítica (pictured above), the adventure theme park just outside Benidorm, has been sold for 20 million Euros, having cost 400 million Euros to date, 200 million paid for by the regional government. It has been a financial disaster.

    Terra Mítica is on the doorstep of Bendiorm, Alicante city & airport, and not too far from Valencia city, yet it has never been viable. So what are the chances that a Paramount theme park in the middle of nowhere will work, d’ya think?

  • #109991
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think at that value you can probably make Terra Mitica work. Never been inside but drove past it a few times and also visited Benidorm lots of times.

    This is what needs to happen with all properties in Spain.. they need to be sold of at market value so new people can start making profits and investing it back into society.

  • #112635
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Paramount have announced they will be building a similar park in the Thames Estuary, as well as in Murcia…. I think I’ll leave any comments to Katy 😉

    http://www.itv.com/news/story/2012-10-08/2bn-theme-park-plans-unveiled/

    http://www.thespanishbrick.com/2012/property-news-and-views/stories-on-property/the-paramount-park-will-improve-the-economy-in-murcia-but-will-become-a-bubble/3008

  • #118719
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I thought the Paramount Theme Park project in Murcia had slunk off and died somewhere because quite obviously it’s NEVER going to happen, which never stopped some types from boosting it for all it was worth in a desperate attempt to make a few sales (though if anyone believed it then fools and their money come to mind), but no. It’s like some sort of urban myth that never dies…..

  • #119247
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I still occasionally read the odd thing about the Paramount theme park in Murcia. Story won’t go away:
    http://www.inmodiario.com/162/18637/parque-paramount-prisa-pero-pausa.html

  • #119252
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Star Trek theme park to open in Murcia…. next year!

    http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2014/03/06/star-trek-theme-park-thrills-in-murcia/

    Is this genuine? Can anyone down in Murcia confirm/deny that actual building work is taking place?

  • #119255
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Murcia Today says work is delayed until Summer 2014, so you definitely need someone on the ground there to say whether any construction has started yet, sometimes footings can be excavated prior to actual construction to comply with planning 🙄

  • #119253
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    IT’S NEVER, EVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

  • #182315
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    The real estate blog Inmodiario reports that Jesús Samper, the promoter of the Paramount theme park in Murcia, hasn’t managed to raise private financing for the project, but now has Government support to lobby for European funds to ge this non-starter off the ground.

    It seems he needs €17m at this stage, and the Secretary of State for Commerce, fellow-Murcian Jaime García-Legaz, has confirmed that the Ministry for the Economy and Competitivity in Madrid has supported his request for funding from the European fund for regional development (Feder).

    EU funds would finance up to 8% of the theme park, if the application is successful. Samper and his company Premursa need €400m and have already invested €40m according to Inmodiario. So he needs another €300m to finish the job.

  • #182461
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    Is Paramount in Murcia viable? Just read this history of Terra Mítica in Benidorm, and the hundreds of millions of public money that has been squandered there, despite it being obviously unviable:
    http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2014/07/27/valencia/1406476458_068777.html

  • #183849
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    I’ve read news that the Paramount theme park in Murcia has been awarded €17m in funding by the EU. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it would certainly be a waste of money.

  • #183864
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    Someone has pointed out to me that “The EU has approved a Spanish state grant to the park, it is not money from the EU.” However, the end result is the same thing – a waste of money.

  • #186045
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    The Spanish real estate news website Inmodiario.com reports that efforts to get a Paramount theme park off the ground in Murcia are on the point of collapsing.

    Five years after it was first announced with much fanfare in Madrid, the project “shows every sign of leading to nothing,” says the article.

    Breaking ground was supposed to start in the first quarter of this year, promised Jesus Samper, the man behind the project. So far, zilch.

    The only news in the first quarter of this year was that one of the main companies involved in the project, the audio visual production company Santa Mónica Sports, has gone bust.

    And there is no money. “Investors have turned their back on something that doesn’t have the slightest future,” reports Inmodiario.com.

  • #186491
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    In this week’s Economist Magazine there is an article titled ‘Bumpy Rides Ahead‘ about theme parks in Europe opening whilst the sector is still in crisis. In this article is says:

    And a giant theme park and resort with 15,000 hotel rooms, also based on Paramount Pictures’ films, is due to open in south-eastern Spain next year…….One reason such grand designs are still on the table is state help. The EU has contributed €16m to Paramount’s new park in Spain.

    I presume they are talking about this Paramount theme park in Murcia, the subject of this thread. Opening next year  😯 . Don’t they know it’s dead in the water, beset by bankruptcy rumours? They haven’t started breaking ground so how could they possibly open next year?

    Is there another Paramount theme park project in Spain that I’ve missed, or is The Economist badly informed on this issue?

  • #187532
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    I read today that there is still no deal on how/when to open Corvera airport in Murcia, which obviously hampers all tourism and property projects in the region.
    http://www.theleader.info/article/48446/spain/national/still-no-deal-on-corvera/

    The article also says:

    However, with the demise of the anticipated Paramount Theme Park because of environmental concerns, the throughput of passengers in the region is unlikely to come anywhere close to the numbers that were channelled through San Javier when Polaris World were at the top of their game.

    I haven’t been paying much attention to the Paramount theme park fantasy in recent years, but this is the first I’ve heard of it being abandoned due to “environmental concerns”.

  • #189337
    Profile photo of Mark Stücklin
    Mark Stücklin
    Keymaster

    Another blow to the fantasy of building a Paramount Theme Park in Murcia. The highest court in Murcia has ordered the project be halted (though nothing was moving forward anyway) because of illegal plans to build part of it in a natural park. This on top of the fact that the developer is bankrupt.

    The environmental group Ecologists in Action went to court against the project arguing that plans agreed between the developer and Town Hall of Alhama de Murcia failed to comply with environmental protection laws for the Valle-Carrascoy natural park. The judge agreed with them.

    This project was never viable from the start. It never had any chance of getting off the ground. Anyone who thought otherwise was deluded or using it to try sex-up housing projects in the area.

    We will soon have heard the last of this foolish idea.

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