Pain in Spain

LoadingFavourite

This topic contains 89 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 6 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #52913
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
  • #72457
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Interesting comments at the end, not much sympathy for speculators I’m afraid

  • #72458
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    REA’s are more than happy to sell multiple properties to “investors” and take the huge commissions that arise from off plan selling. They are then the the first to bad mouth these same investors when it all goes wrong for them (off-plan) and say they deserve it for being greedy!!!!!. πŸ™„

  • #72459
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    REA’s are more than happy to sell multiple properties to “investors”…..

    ……..so are developers!
    It is they who then argue in court that the reason they shouldn’t return monies to these same ‘investors’ who have unknowingly bought into their illegal builds is because ‘they are only investors” ?!

    What they hypocritically fail to acknowledge is the law is the law, regardless of the reasons for purchasing.
    They also use this same ‘argument’ in court, even if it is an individual who only bought one property….. πŸ™„

  • #72460
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Developers are now counter-suing people who are taking them to court. Their reason? For not completing on their illegal property ❗ 😈 😈 😈
    They presumably think this will wear people down into giving up.
    This cannot get any more ridiculous.

  • #72461
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Presumably these developers will be waaaaaaaaay back down the queue for getting their case heard in the overstretched Courts! πŸ‘Ώ
    πŸ’‘ Maybe they will decide to build (illegal) Courts instead of apartments/villas so that they get their cases heard sooner! πŸ˜‰

  • #72462
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ‘Suing’ someone for not completing on an illegal property should not even get as far as the Courts – the Judges should not be allowing this. It is a total waste of time and resources on the courts, which are already over-stretched.

  • #72463
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Suzanne

    quite agree, though i’m not suprised by the developers, like many agents, they will stoop to any level. What really bugs me is the same developers coming up in front of judges time and time again and still being given the time of day when they are so obviously crooks!. If they start to get the justice they deserve, then i think many problems would be sorted very quickly. When i’ve said this before, people have replied saying ‘this is Spain’ or ‘it’s down to being ruled by a previous dictatorship’ or you were naive or stupid getting involved, and other pointless comments that just serve to protect those in the wrong. What a load of tosh, it’s just a very poor system that often delivers crap judgement that defies common sense, or corruption in one of its many forms that stop decent people getting fast justice.

  • #72466
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Absolutely Goodstich, which I why I keep going on about getting the EU ministers aware of this & forcing them to get involved via Our Petition. Spain cannot continue to behave as ‘a law-unto-itself’. Unless of course Spain loses its EU standing – which there is much speculation about now ❗

  • #72470
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    goodstich44 wrote:
    Suzanne

    quite agree, though i’m not suprised by the developers, like many agents, they will stoop to any level. What really bugs me is the same developers coming up in front of judges time and time again and still being given the time of day when they are so obviously crooks!. If they start to get the justice they deserve, then i think many problems would be sorted very quickly. When i’ve said this before, people have replied saying ‘this is Spain’ or ‘it’s down to being ruled by a previous dictatorship’ or you were naive or stupid getting involved, and other pointless comments that just serve to protect those in the wrong. What a load of tosh, it’s just a very poor system that often delivers crap judgement that defies common sense, or corruption in one of its many forms that stop decent people getting fast justice.

    So let’s say, all you say is correct.
    Then why the hell did you buy ther, or didn’t you do homework on what the Country you were buying in was like?

  • #72471
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @goodstich44 wrote:

    ……pointless comments that just serve to protect those in the wrong…..

    Couldn’t say it any better than that Goodstich ❗

  • #72473
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Suzanne

    thanks, and yes, sadly mg’s post is a perfect example! He/She knows full well about the lack of information available 5 years ago compared to now. I’m afraid that despite all our efforts to highlight the fraud, corruption and blatent lies many were (and still are) told when they have had to put their trust in certain legal bodies , some people just wont see the truth when it’s staring them in the face.

  • #72474
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I agree Goodstitch, I have lived in Spain a long time and when I hear of everyones stories I think there but for the grace of God go I πŸ™„

  • #72475
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “He/She knows full well about the lack of information available 5 years ago compared to now”
    The information was always there, it is people that took the option of not delving into it first, before parting with money.

    The information is more publicised now, but there are still those signing on the dotted line without doing research.

    Can I assume that detailed research was not carried out prior to acquisition?

    My first overseas purchase was 10+ years ago and corruption, etc., was hardly publicised, but I did duck out of one acquisition after aa bit of delving.

    “some people just wont see the truth when it’s staring them in the face.”
    Agree with that, they still buy blind, off plan and use the lawyer the developer/agent suggests.

  • #72476
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    mg: I do agree with you to a very large extent. I can say with all honesty that with all the research one can do if the system is weak at the core for what ever reasons its is very difficult in any country.

    I have bought and sold in Spain for many years and without sounding arrogant I can assure you that I feel despite of all the research including experian report etc. I have been lucky.

    One big that went in my favour was that I was lucky to have benefit of my Spanish friends who were in construction related businesses

  • #72477
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    mg likes to stir the pot. πŸ™„

  • #72479
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Phewwww. That feels good. Someone who also can see my side of the coin.
    “I can say with all honesty that with all the research one can do if the system is weak at the core for what ever reasons its is very difficult in any country.”
    Agreed and that is why I have not bought on mainland Spain, nor Italy.
    I am looking at buying on Mainland, when prices are right, which the time is coming closer. In the meantime, I have already retained the services of a specialist property lawyer and surveyor.

    To Claire.
    If having an opinion and wishing to protect one’s money is stirring the pot, I accept that I have stirred the pot.
    I just see it as sense and protecting my own interest.
    If being labelled by you as liking to stir the pot, you are entitled to an opinion. Hopefully, others will be drawn to see that there are two sides and that they could benefit to reading both side.

    It does seem that if you have an opinion, be it from experience or not, and it doesn’t match that of others, you are alianated, irrespective of if someone may benefit from it.

  • #72481
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    MG, with respect for your opinions, you are covering ground that is well worn. You have said often how stupid we all are for buying in Spain and not doing our homework. πŸ™„ Two sides? Yeah yeah yeah! It’s all been said before.

  • #72483
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    So can’t the same be said for the i’ve been conned, they are all swindlers and cheats. Lack of information available, blah, blah, blah?
    Shouldn’t potential purchasers be made to realise that despit corruption, they control their own destiny?
    Everyone can say no.
    Everyone can say, sorry, I have appointed my own lawyer.

  • #72485
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It takes a thief to catch a thief! We are not thieves.

  • #72493
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    But shouldn’t potential purchasers be made to realise that despit corruption, they control their own destiny?
    That everyone can say no.
    That everyone can say, sorry, I have appointed my own lawyer.
    So, don’t you ahree that I’ve been conned, they are all swindlers and cheats. Lack of information available, blah, blah, blah, is going over old ground?

  • #72494
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I would just like to say that we also had an our own lawer who looked over the paperwork prior to handing over out initial payments and the developers STILL managed to pull a fast one…

  • #72495
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Bettyboo, This is a perfect example of problems at the core. All business transactions commence in/on good faith.

  • #72499
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Shakeel as usual you talk a load of shit

  • #72503
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    πŸ˜† πŸ˜† πŸ˜†

  • #72509
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Katy you are entitled to your opinion. If you talk sence perhaps you could be polite enough in your wisdom point out the s**t. Whilst I put the fan

  • #72510
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    …………..a load of sh*t

    Talking of which…….this is sounding more like the (smoking) pigs debate over on the other thread ❓ πŸ˜€

    Fans aren’t involved though, I think the wind’s the problem….

  • #72521
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ………amazing, despite all the decent people who have been mis-led, conned, cheated and lied to in the last few years, there are still people posting on here who would rather blame those who have been wronged rather than the liars and crooks. Thankfully, fair thinking people are not only talking much sense, but those regulars who champion justice, like suzanne, charlie, clair, katy, paul, dorothy, bettyboo and other ‘good eggs’, (some who have taken on the sharks and won) i’ve missed, are doing something about it in the form of a website trying to help people, writing to various ministers, or at least recognising right from wrong and posting helpful information. All this utter rubbish about ‘the other side of the coin’ or a ‘balanced opinion’ makes my blood boil!. If you dont back those who have been wronged, you are supporting the scum bags that have caused so much of the misery. Thank heavens for all of you who are fighting for the rights of decent people who have been wronged in the past and present.

  • #72522
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    LOL !!!

    House prices can go down MKAAAYYY ?

  • #72523
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    post got delivered twice, apologies. 😳

  • #72524
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    On the button, Goodstich.

    And let’s face it, everyone can be a wise-guy when they’ve been buying and selling for years, or have the right contacts who are ‘in the know’, or are actually connected to the property world professionally etc. We don’t all have that advantage and let’s face it – that is why we hired a so-called professional in the form of a lawyer. How were we supposed to anticipate he (or she in my case) had no ethics, no morals, no honesty and was corrupt as hell? I do now, but now I’m a wise-guy too!

    The critics on this forum were ‘green’ once and knew diddly squat about any of the corruption going on – a fact they conveniently forget while they now lecture us on how we only have ourselves to blame. How many I wonder actually did any hard ‘research’ themselves, as against how much was picked up/learnt through a mate who has a mate who knows a mate who knows this bloke – and he said …….

    Whenever we are lectured on how we should have done more ‘digging’ or more research, I always smile to myself.

    As for ‘controlling our own destiny’……I’m sorry mg but to use that phrase when it comes to buying property in Spain, especially at the time when most of us did, IMO is a total nonsense.
    You say “Everyone can say no. Everyone can say, sorry, I have appointed my own lawyer.”

    Yeah right. And everyone can be a wise-guy, if only………
    Ah, that big ‘IF’.

  • #72525
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mg wrote:

    Shouldn’t potential purchasers be made to realise that despit corruption, they control their own destiny?

    ?’control their own destiny’? This is a complete contradiction.

  • #72526
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “And let’s face it, everyone can be a wise-guy when they’ve been buying and selling for years, or have the right contacts who are ‘in the know’, or are actually connected to the property world professionally etc”

    Charlie, if you and others read my posting. I have said or it seams that I have tried to say that I HAD BEEN LUCKY. Not only because I knew people in Spain but it may have helped. There is nothing about wise guy. We all can be wise after the event.

    It does not make me feel any better that people who had used the normal caution and relied on lawyers, town halls etc and in good faith suffered in a massive way and their life time dreams have been shattered.

  • #72527
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “And let’s face it, everyone can be a wise-guy when they’ve been buying and selling for years, or have the right contacts who are ‘in the know’, or are actually connected to the property world professionally etc”

    Charlie, if you and others read my posting. I have said or it seams that I have tried to say that I HAD BEEN LUCKY. Not only because I knew people in Spain but it may have helped. There is nothing about wise guy. We all can be wise after the event.

    It does not make me feel any better that people who had used the normal caution and relied on lawyers, town halls etc and in good faith suffered in a massive way and their life time dreams have been shattered.

  • #72528
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can accept that those who have lost some or all of their money feel bitter, but also fear that as there are some who will not accept any responsibility at all (such as research and not paying independent advisors), but lay 100% blame on the developers/agents, they will not have learned from the experience and could well fall into the trap again.

    “All this utter rubbish about ‘the other side of the coin’ or a ‘balanced opinion’ makes my blood boil!.”
    As do the biased opinions you state does to mine.

    “If you dont back those who have been wronged,”
    It is not about supporting one side or another from the past, it is opening prospective purchasers eyes, or many other are goung to be caught.

    Having never had the need to employ the services of a lawyer suggested by a developer, can someone tell me is there a difference in the fee the developer’s lawyer would charged, compared to an independent specialist property lawyer?

    Why do people choose to use the lawyer suggested by the developer/agent. Is it laziness to save them having to find their own, or cost?

    “everyone can be a wise-guy when they’ve been buying and selling for years”
    Very true, but in earlier days when money was tighter, those fees to advisors certainly were felt, but proved well worth it for peace of mind sake.
    Everyone has to start somewhere and in the begining, extra caution is needed.

    bettyboo, was your lawyer an independent and specialising in property?
    Was he/she a UK or Spanish lawyer?
    Was he/she fully retained to act, or just asked to “look over” the contract?

  • #72530
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    mg wrote

    ‘As do the biased opinions you state does to mine.’

    mg

    biased opinions???? …….. have you still no idea of the greed lies and corruption going on, have you learned nothing from the genuine helpful people on this site?, can you not tell a decent person from a cheat/liar/fraud?.

    mg wrote

    ‘It is not about supporting one side or another’

    ….yes it bloody well is!!, any decent person WILL support those who have be wronged, naive?, mistakes?, so what?, call it what you like, they do not deserve to be treated like this, and you make it very clear where you stand.

  • #72535
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    goodstitch, as I said before, mg is a stirrer…a s***stirrer. πŸ™„

  • #72536
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Both MG and Shakeel are totally and utterly missing the point which has been aired recently by new potential purchasers in that if you have to jump through so many hoops , ie driving around trying to interview and judge various solicitors.
    Then check every little detail constantly, carry out research into the developers,check with local people to see if the water does not get cut off and that you can have electricity, your refuse will be collected, the access road tarmaced etc. I can tell you now it aint going to happen.It is accepted that purchasing property is a complex business not to be undertaken lightly, but go back and read the previous postings from new people wishing to buy and they refer to the hassle of going through the worry of it all, Guess what, it does not have to be like this!!!.You can have a system in place that given normal pratice allows everyone to purchase with confidence , not just those in the know or with the wherewithall to beat the system.I know that both of you have read the situation well and have profited from it,however you need an honest and fair system in place if you are you are going to appeal and sell to the majority in the market.Mg you do come across as being a bit smug,remember pride comes before a fall,and not everyone has your ability to understand the process involved.
    The process should be fair honest and transparent,if it is not then you are not going to sell into the mainstream market.For my part I too have beaten the system ,but I would not go through it all again.My overiding thought on my situation was ,well I have won as such,but I would never invest In Spain again ,which is a pity because I really loved the country.

    This is not a satisfactory scenario,ideally countries prosper because people wish to invest there,If you are capable of detering even wizened old gits like me,there is nothing to be gained from creating an enviroment of fear ,buying a property is already a scary enough process for most folk ,throw in the propect that your home may well have been illegally built,not have permission,or never recieve utillities etc etc ,then you will not be able to sell.
    Change the system ,not the purchasers you are asking to much of people
    to become minor property detectives,all they want to do a buy a place in the sun not become property experts.

  • #72538
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “It is accepted that purchasing property is a complex business not to be undertaken lightly”
    Unfortunately there are many who don’t appreciate this. Just go on a quick cheap visit and sign the dotted line.

  • #72540
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    Charlie, if you and others read my posting…..

    Relax Shakeel, I wasn’t referring to you on this one πŸ˜‰

    …..but I’ll try and get you next time 😈

  • #72541
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    MG ,so are you now saying that because some one has gained your trust and you now trust them ,ie just want to sign on the dotted line, that it is then ok to fleece them rotten, not only is this view sick and immoral but stupidly short sighted,if you rob people blind you will only succeed in the short term,people wise up ,tell friends and family, word spreads.
    Then you end with what you have now ,a blighted and tainted property market, sooner or later the system will catch up , it has to in order that the property market survives,

    I accept that there will always be stupid people out there ,what I wont accept is that it is then ok to fleece them of their money, seems to me we will have to agree to differ on this one,robbing anybody is just plain wrong,regardles of their level of intelligence,morally it is even more wrong if you rob a dimo as they very often have no way back.what an utterly sad indictment that here we are dicussing the politics of Gutter Scum

  • #72542
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mg wrote:

    Why do people choose to use the lawyer suggested by the developer/agent. Is it laziness to save them having to find their own, or cost?

    mg, I can only speak for ourselves and the answer is neither of your two suggestions.
    Like many purchasers, our proposed move to Spain was a new venture. We didn’t already have friends in the region we were looking at who would know the goodies from the baddies.
    And whereas we did ‘company searches’ on the developer and everything else we possibly could to safeguard ourselves, finding a decent lawyer was something we could only go with on recommendation.
    This is where not knowing about the developer/agent/lawyer triangle comes in. Our agent – big international one based in London with branch in Marbella, and this agent’s recommendation for a lawyer? Big international firm with worldwide offices, and the “we as a company have been using them for years”.
    Now, with the knowledge I have, alarm bells would be going ding-a-ling, but back then – we were simply lulled into the security of two big international companies with a reputation to maintain…..or so we foolishly thought.

    So nothing to do with laziness, nothing to do with cost – we just felt confident we were simply dealing with the right people in whom we could trust.
    I think where a lot of people coming out from the UK go wrong (including us) is that we have never – in our life’s experience – ever heard of a corrupt lawyer. Never read about one, never heard stories about one. And most of us have only ever used the one ‘family lawyer’ all our lives.
    I would have been more cynical about a vicar being possibly corrupt than a lawyer, because at least I’ve heard of scandals involving them.
    But a lawyer – No.
    It wasn’t until two years later in 2005 when we found this forum that we finally had our eyes opened. Would we have done things differently then if we knew what we know now? Of course. But remember most of us are involved in situations where there was a ‘legal’ building license in place at the time we bought
    – what we couldn’t know was that in the future, after we paid our money, it was going to get revoked because a brown envelope was used to obtain it.
    And yes, now I know that the 1986 PGOU plan should have been checked, but a) we’d never heard of the plan back then and b) this is where our duff lawyer wasn’t working in our interest.

    And tell me one thing – how, in Goodstich’s situation for example, could he have anticipated that his apartment was going to be built 30% smaller? Or that they won’t build the promised number of swimming pools?

    I’m afraid there are just some things one can’t be wise about until after the fact, and this is why just getting wiser doesn’t always solve the problem of buying in Spain.
    The corruption itself needs dealing with which is the stance the likes of us (on the other side of your coin) keep banging on about. Just to say everyone needs to wise-up will not solve the problem – that’s just curing the symptom, not the cause.

  • #72545
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ” I accept that there will always be stupid people out there ,what I wont accept is that it is then ok to fleece them of their money,”
    Me neither, but it happens in all walks of life and in all Countries. Did you see the tradesmen on House of Horros. How many times had they been featured, but they still get the work.

    “I think where a lot of people coming out from the UK go wrong (including us) is that we have never – in our life’s experience – ever heard of a corrupt lawyer. Never read about one, never heard stories about one. And most of us have only ever used the one ‘family lawyer’ all our lives.”
    So am I the only persone to have heard of corruption in the legal system overseas?
    I thought it was common knowledge, especially anyone who reads newspapers and sees headings about Mafia and how they got away with things.

    “Just to say everyone needs to wise-up will not solve the problem”
    If people listened and learned it would, but I bet there are plane loads flying out this week, polishing the rose tinted glasses, despite newspaper, TV and radion coverage recently.

    “finding a decent lawyer was something we could only go with on recommendation”
    Sorry, but why would you accept the recommendation of the people you are buying from?
    Is it something that you would do in UK?

    Next you will be saying that there were incentives on offer such as lower fees, fittings in the premises, etc., if you used the recommended lawyer?

    Still waiting for a reply to “someone tell me is there a difference in the fee the developer’s lawyer would charged, compared to an independent specialist property lawyer? “

  • #72547
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    charlie wrote:
    then – we were simply lulled into the security of two big international companies with a reputation to maintain…..or so we foolishly thought.
    that we have never – in our life’s experience – ever heard of a corrupt lawyer.

    Brits robbing other Brits abroad, nothing new here. It happens all over the world now.

    People, do your own homework and do not trust the MRI-s of this world. Why would one trust these big international companies? They usually built their wealth by selling overpriced properties. I know cases where these international companies forced the prices up in order to get a bigger commision.

  • #72548
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    mg wrote:
    Still waiting for a reply to “someone tell me is there a difference in the fee the developer’s lawyer would charged, compared to an independent specialist property lawyer? “

    Well, when I came to UK and bought my house here I used the developer solicitors because they offered their services for free. I never thought that they would be cons and they were very honest.

    I would not do the same in Spain, Romania, Bulgaria or Cape Verde.

  • #72549
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    GSB

    glad to see you are taking a fair view of this, as you said MG is very much missing the point, but to get the point, you have to look at it as you and many of us are, from the standpoint of a decent honest person, not from a sharks point of view.

  • #72550
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie; that a releif. I look forward to you getting me next time. I dont want to loose any friends. I think I have lost Katie without trying.

  • #72551
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    No pint or points missed, just of the opinion, whilst accepting that many developers and agents can be classed as rogues, the purchaser has alsoto take some responsibility.
    Now quite fed up with the claims that information wern’t available x years ago, we thought our lawyer was nonest, didn’t think there was such a thing as a corrupt lawyer.
    If you are of the opinion that it is only the developer or agent who is at fault, and all the purchasers are innocent, then I am afraid you should not be offering advice to prospective purchasers.
    It also seems that unless you join the clan of we are innocent, irrespective of what has happened, you don’t want to hear thinks.

    “you have to look at it as you and many of us are, from the standpoint of a decent honest person, not from a sharks point of view.”
    Yes, I agree with that, which is why I comment and suggest people take professional advice and that does not mean from any Mickey Mouse that the developer recommends. Unless you want to be caught.

  • #72553
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I was flicking through the glossy colour brochure of a well-known offplan sales company (clue: its name reminds you of an old British nuclear deterrent) this morning and noticed the following in small print on the foot of page three.

    Legal Notice: The perspectives presented here are an initial conceptual representation of the project and not definitive project plans. The appearence, design, number, and distribution given are only a guide and are not binding and are subject to modification due to technical or legal demands.

    Fair warning?

  • #72557
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Re. my post…..

    @ralita wrote:

    Brits robbing other Brits abroad, nothing new here. It happens all over the world now.

    Sorry ralita – you’re really don’t know what you’re talking about.
    Our lawyer was Spanish as were all her colleagues we had the misfortune to have to deal with at times.

    Our agent was S.African.

    Your eagerness to have a go at the Brits yet once more is, on this occasion, pathetic considering you didn’t know any facts.

    By the way, with all these corrupt developers being Spanish and with many Spanish purchasers also being caught, how is it I never see you write:
    “Spaniards robbing other Spaniards, nothing new there”.

    Do I note a touch of bias ❓ Nah….couldn’t be.

  • #72559
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Rawlins:
    I am sure that you find these kind of clauses all over the world. As the brochure is not a contractual document it has no validity. These clauses are embeded in the private contract we sign.

    As. far I am concerned it goes back to the GOOD FAITH, I talked about perhaps on another thread. One is not being able to the other is using those clauses in the contract as an excuse for shoddy work and lower standard of finshing.

    If the developer shows a certain colour of marble and than changes it, as it as financially beneficial to him is not acceptable. I can accept if there was a world wide shortgage of the marble that was laid out in the show flat etc.

    A good contract will have clauses that states tolarence, wether you can enforce these contract in the Courts or your lawyers point this out to you is another matter.

    However for the developeThe is Yes, you find the

  • #72560
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mg wrote:

    I thought it was common knowledge, especially anyone who reads newspapers and sees headings about Mafia and how they got away with things.

    Yes mg, of course. But crikey, we didn’t know we were going over to Spain and dealing with the Mafia!!! Come on now………

    When I wrote: “Just to say everyone needs to wise-up will not solve the problem”…..
    @mg wrote:

    If people listened and learned it would…

    So you’re saying that if people wisend-up to the corruption it would solve the corruption problem??? 😯
    Can’t agree with you on that one either mg, I’m afraid.

  • #72562
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    charlie wrote:
    By the way, with all these corrupt developers being Spanish and with many Spanish purchasers also being caught, how is it I never see you write:
    “Spaniards robbing other Spaniards, nothing new there”.

    Do I note a touch of bias ❓ Nah….couldn’t be.

    Of course, Spaniards are robbing Spaniards big time. They are dishonest by nature, I would not trust anybody of Latin origin.

    But the biggest robbers on the UK market are British agents. I would not use names but you know who they are. Beware of British agents, use the locals in any country you might invest.

  • #72563
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    Of course, Spaniards are robbing Spaniards big time. They are dishonest by nature, I would not trust anybody of Latin origin.

    Would you express this very offensive opinion to a Spaniard standing in front of you?
    ❓

  • #72564
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Yes mg, of course. But crikey, we didn’t know we were going over to Spain and dealing with the Mafia!!! Come on now……… “
    Sorry, ignorance is an excuse only.
    Next you be saying that you thought it was safe to walk the street of Rio at night, flashing your jewellery, just because nobody specifically mentioned the crime there. Try reading about things and places before you take a gamble.

    Perhaps I have missed a point, as I am begining to see why so many have been conned and caught.
    Let’s take that short subsidised flight, view a show house, drop of vino to relax, listen to the sales talk on capital growth and asked a question.
    What lawyer can I use, as I don’t know of any and as a large company, you wouldn’t try an swindle me just to get your commission. Would you?

    “So you’re saying that if people wisend-up to the corruption it would solve the corruption problem??? “
    Yes. No customers means no business. No business, no corruption.
    Purchasers should pay with their feet. Walk away.

  • #72565
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Rawlins wrote:
    ralita wrote:
    Of course, Spaniards are robbing Spaniards big time. They are dishonest by nature, I would not trust anybody of Latin origin.

    Would you express this very offensive opinion to a Spaniard standing in front of you?
    ❓

    Bring him here. πŸ™‚

    Or her.

    I had enough problems in my trips to Spain, Italy, Romania, Portugal and France to make an idea about how honest are business people of Latin origin.

  • #72568
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mg wrote:

    No customers means no business. No business, no corruption.

    πŸ˜†
    What a simplistic and unrealistic world you live in. One day you’ll realise that this life – and especially the business world – is not that simple.
    In the case of Spain, I can say ‘unfortunately’.

    @mg wrote:

    Perhaps I have missed a point……

    You’ve done more than that in this post. Compared to when you first joined this forum, I think you’ve lost the plot.

    You used to contribute some really good stuff. You were always blunt but at least factual and offering good commonsense advice, albeit in a harsh manner at times.
    But it seems all you can do now is throw out crap generalisations that are so obviously written with the sole intent to insult but in fact have no relevance whatsoever to the people you’re aiming them at.

    It may surprise you, and other ‘corruption theorists’, that not all of us jumped on inspection flights wearing those rose-tinted glasses, leaving our brains at the airport in the process don’t forget, proceeded to get totally carried away on some cheap plonk while listening to dribble spouted by some 20 something year old acne-covered I-think-I’m-a-great-salesman – and consequently signed up to something without so much as a thought and all apparently because……wait for it……
    THE SUN WAS SHINING!

    Or is that how you started?

  • #72569
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @ralita wrote:

    They (Spaniards) are dishonest by nature, I would not trust anybody of Latin origin.

    And of what origin are you Ralita out of interest – or daren’t you write that here?

  • #72570
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    charlie wrote:
    mg wrote:
    No customers means no business. No business, no corruption.

    πŸ˜†
    What a simplistic and unrealistic world you live in. One day you’ll realise that this life – and especially the business world – is not that simple.
    In the case of Spain, I can say ‘unfortunately’.

    Unfortunately the Spain story is a clear example on how things can be sold to the general British public. They sold you the story with the Spanish Sun and how bad it is in UK.

    Guess what: the weather in UK is overall almost as good as in Spain, with no extremes like 40 C over the Summer. I would still think of buying some land to build in Spain just because I love California and Spain reminds me of California (and California is too far away).

    I guarantee that in 5 years from now the trend of buying overseas will be long gone and people will try to find their hapiness in their own yard not by buying dreams.

  • #72571
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mg wrote:

    I comment and suggest people take professional advice and that does not mean from any Mickey Mouse that the developer recommends. Unless you want to be caught.

    I have in my hands a long list of people who have taken ‘professional advice’, particularly from lawyers in Spain who have seriously breached their own professional code of practice & ethics. Many of these people have used so-called reputable & independent lawyers, & have not used the lawyer their agent/developer tried very hard to shift them over to. When they have attempted to right these wrongs by reporting these lawyers to their governing body, the Colegio, if they have had a reply it has been only to condone the illegal practices of these lawyers.

    Please do not insult those of us who are fightling for what is rightfully ours – justice – anymore. We are having enough rubbish to deal with as it is.

  • #72572
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Lets not slag one another. Its quite obvious that there are very many unhappy and bitter people.

    Lets, keep our anger focused on resolving the issues that confront and not deviate.

  • #72574
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “What a simplistic and unrealistic world you live in.”
    Is it, how ould you know that?

    “One day you’ll realise that this life – and especially the business world – is not that simple.”
    Hope that is not before too long then, as we have just celebrated 21 years in business and which employs many professionals from many professional sectors.

    “I think you’ve lost the plot.”
    That may be your opinion, but I think not. I normally restrain myself from making personal comments, despite those aimed at me, but I am not the one that has lost the money from buying off-plan.

    “You used to contribute some really good stuff. You were always blunt but at least factual”
    Still am and do. Don’t you realise how many still visit exhibitions and go on subsidised viewing trips? Excuse me, who are the fools, who is it that are losing the plot. Who is it that is going to buy off-plan, in a foreign Country, without speaking the language, without knowing the laws of the land, but find the cheap property, guaranteed capital growth, cheap fags and booze, sun, and all the other garbage, too irresistable.

    “But it seems all you can do now is throw out crap generalisations”
    Because I cannot comment on individual acquisitions, being unaware of facts.
    Regarding you consider my comments as bein “crap”, I can only assume that you support those I mentioned above going on their visits, and think it’s a good idea then?

    “Or is that how you started?”
    No, obviously not had the privelege of meeting those that you may have.

  • #72575
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    You are clearly not doing much business at the moment mg as you are able to spend time on a forum making derogatory remarks about people buying in Spain, that IMO nobody will/does benefit from.

    Your experience presumably comes from the fact that you deal with these brainless people with rose tinted glasses that go on inspection trips

    without knowing the laws of the land, but find the cheap property, guaranteed capital growth, cheap fags and booze, sun, and all the other garbage

    .

    Is that how you make your living selling to these people?

  • #72576
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If you read the time of my posting, you will realise that it is very early morning (pre professional work hours) and that despite being in business for a great deal of time, the first 30-60 minutes of my business day is devoted to relaxation, before my advisors (professional people from all sectors arrive).
    So it may not make you too happy, but this is an exceptionally busy time, which will see profits soar, which you will read about quite soon in the financial press.

    “that IMO nobody will/does benefit from.”
    OK, so me stressing continually that everyone should seek independent professional advice may not be your opinion. Sorry, it is mine and I feel that if I can make one idiot, sorry prson, think before signing, then it will be of benefit.
    In case you do not realise, “professional advice” does not relate to a lawyer only.

    “Your experience presumably comes from the fact that you deal with these brainless people with rose tinted glasses that go on inspection trips”
    Unfortunately, I don’t ever recal meeting with or talking to one. I may have communicated with one on this forum, but would not know that, unless you are holding your hand up that is?

    “Is that how you make your living selling to these people?”
    No, no, no, I leave such businesses to those you describe.

  • #72577
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    From a previous post of mine

    My view for what it’s worth is that Spain is not much worst than UK for bad agents, poor lawyers and corrupt planning. As I have said before the (our) apartment was bought from Erilia via a small agent, who I still see for a beer now and again. It was off plan and Erilia were as hard to deal with as any UK building company I’ve dealt with regarding snagging etc. The apartment was about one year late (slightly worst than the UK) and the lawyers (again one reviled here) were good and I still use them.

    We organised our own flights, hotel and I spoke to two agents over the telephone before we arrived to arrange to see them. One was the small agency we used, the other was a large agency called O.E. I left them in no doubt what we wanted to see and how much time we had, the small agent turned up and I still waiting in the car park for O.E. as they never showed, maybe I put them off

    Like most i read all of the books regarding buying in Spain and coinsidently i came across an old one last weekend first published in 1972 update in 1992 with a whole chapter on what could go wrong and the precautions to take when buying in Spain. Without knowing the date of publication if presented here verbatim you would swear the author had taken ALL (and I mean all, PM me and I’ll send it you) of the warning outlined on this site and published them in his 1972 book. Clearly an enlightened author

    Once I’m home I’ll scan the chapter and give you all a link so you can all see the chapter of which i speak, if only to show that the warnings have always been there. I would suspect that the numbers of people wanting to buy was less in 1972 and the Internet was only a twinkle in someones eye, therefore we didn’t hear of the issues surrounding buying abroad.

    I once bought a Β£10 watch for Β£80 in a motorway car park (he showed me an ad in Vogue) and i don’t blame anyone else but myself for it.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #72579
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    mg/P800aul

    if you want to help genuine people who have been wronged by liars and cheats, why not have a look at Susannes ‘action’ site, and contribute some of your experience that might actually help decent people. You would gain far more respect than blaming these people for getting involved with the low life we all know about.

  • #72582
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    IMO Drakan & Maria are the people to listen & learn from when it comes to facts

    When you look at the posts over the recent months, the majority are from people who have been using the forum a while or have personal experience of the corruption in the property market as purchasers and are awaiting JUSTICE from the Spanish judicial system!…It seems to be a long time coming!.

    Paul, I guess you did not have a lawyer with you when purchasing your watch, that you had paid a vast sum of money to, who said ” Paul go ahead and buy the watch. Everything is in order!!” πŸ™‚

    mg, people who use this forum are wise to the lawyer situation. Those that are not do not use forums. It’s not people here you need to preach to. Go and stand at the airports!! Independent lawyers come with no guarantees of honesty either as many here know to their cost!!
    Really all that needs to be said from the advise you are giving is:

    DO NOT BUY PROPERTY IN SPAIN. IT IS A CORRUPT COUNTRY. Doesn’t everyone know that?

    So mg, are you are “financial advisor” ❓

  • #72586
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “So mg, are you are “financial advisor””
    No, except to guide my own businesses.

  • #72604
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paul, I guess you did not have a lawyer with you when purchasing your watch, that you had paid a vast sum of money to, who said ” Paul go ahead and buy the watch. Everything is in order!!”

    Correct i did not have a lawyer as I thought i was getting something worth for more than i was paying when in fact it was less. Now i don’t believe in the free lunch or “free” inspection trips.

    Any criticism or comment on this forum directed at those who may have been less that careful (or thought they where getting a free lunch) is considered a personal attack on all those who now find themselves in a position where they have paid more and are still waiting for their apartment. As yet i don’t think anyone here has actually lost their money, that is they have paid a deposit to a developer and the developer has made off with their money never to be seen again. Inconvenienced yes, took for a ride (for a free lunch) yes, sold something worth less than they thought it would be yes, waiting longer than they thought yes, and very cheesed off yes, but not lost their money.

    I’ve just had lunch (not a free one) with a friend who bought at Los Lagos and is still waiting for the go ahead (from a Lawyer branded corrupt here) to sign as he has been told not to until a LFO is in place. He’s happy to wait and still looking forward to moving in, I’ve pointed him to this forum many times and he reads all that’s here yet he’s happy waiting.

    I just feel all of this vitriol sometimes get in the way of clear advice and help to those who want to buy here in spain.

    By the the Β£10 watch still works after 20 years.

    Best regards as always to all from a very sunny Spain

    Paul

  • #72607
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    p800aul

    as i said before, you would gain far more respect from the good guys on this site if you aim your criticism at the scum bags who deserve it, not at the decent people on the receiving end, mistakes (as you see it) or not. Why not do as Suzanne is doing and help the people on the right side?

  • #72612
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As yet i don’t think anyone here has actually lost their money, that is they have paid a deposit to a developer and the developer has made off with their money never to be seen again. Inconvenienced yes, took for a ride (for a free lunch) yes, sold something worth less than they thought it would be yes, waiting longer than they thought yes, and very cheesed off yes, but not lost their money.

    Sorry to disappoint you P800aul, but I am looking down the barrel of a total loss of about Β£50k plus fees.

    This is because of incompetent Spanish lawyers and their weak Colegio de Abogados. It seems that there are ways that responsibility can be evaded in Spain.

    I started trying to buy in 2001. Read the book. Got totally striped. Not even got the T shirt.

    Please do not patronise me or other contributors to this forum.

  • #72613
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jon, I do sympathise with you being out of pocket especially if you have taken the right precautions (Independent Property Lawyer, etc.), but for those thinking of purchasing, you highlight the fact that just because things are laws of the land in UK, it doesn’t mean they apply in foreign countries.

    “It seems that there are ways that responsibility can be evaded in Spain.”
    This stateemnt confirms, but Spain is not unique, in UK you will see many things you may consider illegal (say speeding), but with sufficient funds and a clever lawyer, the law can be “skirted around” on a technicality.
    I believe this is something that many purchasers don’t consider, laws of the lands differ from Country to Country.

  • #72615
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Please do not assume that everyone that buys in Spain goes on an inspection trip. Both mg & P800aul are extremely patronising.
    In a civilised country, that my husband & I thought Spain was, we did not expect to get treated as badly as we were by people we thought were trustworthy (lawyer)and live a nightmare simply because we were buying an apartment. And no , it does not happen in the UK. Lawyers are either honest or kicked out of the profession if they are found guilty of malpractice.

  • #72616
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ” And no , it does not happen in the UK. Lawyers are either honest or kicked out of the profession if they are found guilty of malpractice.”
    Yup, agree with that.
    But, with sufficient funds and expert advice and representation, technical issues can be used, even in UK.
    Football manager gets away with speeding ban.
    How many years has Mr Black being doing what it is alleged he has done, but not found guilty yet.
    Overselling pensions and the repocussions.
    Too many more examples to mention.

  • #72618
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry to disappoint you P800aul, but I am looking down the barrel of a total loss of about Β£50k plus fees

    It’s gone then Jon, totally gone, please explain in more detail, many are looking down the barrel. Has the developer walked away with your money or where you tricked out of it?

    Please do not assume that everyone that buys in Spain goes on an inspection trip

    How about you Claire?

    Regards

    Paul

  • #72627
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jon

    sorry to hear about your situation, despite certain people being in denial?,
    there are many people in your position, fighting to get what should rightly be yours. And why are you having to fight?, no doubt because you are one of thousands who have been conned, lied or cheated by agents/lawyers/developers who have been allowed to get away with it by the spineless people who could grant justice if they were prepared to recognise right from wrong.

    Good luck with your fight, many poor souls on the development i intended buying in to, have just caved in and completed , under the pressure and stress of being treated so badly for so long, and the threat from the deveolper/ lawyer/ agent triangle, that they would lose everthing if they didn’t complete. Some are now even being told they can’t use the swimming pool, because only 1 pool was built, instead of two in plans, and worse still, there are far more smaller appartments squashed in to the same area, making the situation even worse. It’s a disgrace!

  • #72645
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Posts reflecting personal views on some of these threads are attacked as “patronising”. Don’t feel they are as numerous as the seemingly sychophantic comments that appear.

    Just a personal perception I hasten to add!

  • #72833
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Many people posting here including me have been well and truly shafted by certain estate agents, developers and lawyers recommended by the same agents. We use this forum to warn others through our experiences in Spain and to air unresolved problems etc etc.

    Why then do some people come on here to blame the purchasers who have been conned unless they work for these lying agents who were trusted in the first place?

    Instead of offering advice and help, some of these scumbags just try and wind victims up, they must be very sad people probably still attempting to keep their businesses going with yet more lies to innocent people.

    Fat commissions?????

  • #72840
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Angie – we are well-used to some people (even newcomers) coming on to this forum who just like to post rude personal attacks.

    Earlier this week I even had:

    Charlie,Grow up and move on,I am not going to massage your ego any further,pompous and irrelevant come to mind

    for purely making a point that happened to disagree to his.

    The only people who are relevant to me are the 30 people who found themselves in the same situation as I was, and who are now getting the proper help in the form of our excellent lawyer to go through the court system. We had another success in court just 2 weeks ago.
    They and those on this forum who are trying to help in a constructive way (especially Drakan and Maria with legal advice) are the only opinions I take notice of.

    The encouragement and support we all give each other on this forum and ‘behind the scenes’ is fantastic – immature personal attacks I assure you are totally ‘irrelevant’ to my world.
    We’ve all experienced enough stress over the last years to worry about some who resort to rudeness when they can’t adequately express themselves as quoted above, or mocking digs generally at people like many of us here who had the misfortune to get conned while simply trying to buy a property in Spain.

    The moron who even took the opportunity to take a swipe at you and your purchase-misfortune over a spelling mistake yesterday just about sums up their mentality, which is best simply ignored.

  • #72845
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie, I took exception to your posting not because you were right ,but because you saw fit to become extremely rude in ramming home a valid, but irrelevant to the main issue point,which is always the dire situation that people have found themselves in Spain,

    For your information I received several PM’s which were along the lines of, how can anyone in their right mind compare a minor, unused piece of legislation in the UK, to the monumental issues impacting thousands of people in Spain who now are facing huge problems, for some unknown reason you then saw fit to ridicule me on several subsequent posts,incidentlaly long after the thread had returned to the main topic

    Also I feel I should point out that my first and second posts urged everyone to join forces and form a pressure group,this amazingly was taken up by Suzanne, and her tireless efforts have resulted in the formation of SPSP, fully supported by many contributors on the forum all brilliant stuff.

    So if you had carried out your research properly you would have ackowleged this fact ,instead of concentrating on one minor and irrelevent to most people, tiff between you and I ,the reason for my contributions are similar to almost everyone’s on the forum. I dislike what has happnened to the vast majority of contributors, and want to see fair and proper justice for those affected.

    Fortunateley I feel the vast majority appreciate my postings ,also I would like to say that I have found your postings to be well written and well informed, the issue for me and I suspect most people is how can we help one another ,As mentioned I accept you have a point ,what I and others found odd was your insistance in raming it home when it had long since
    to be of any relevance to the subject matter which is Spain.

    Of course the Government can inact this law regarding vacant homes ,the point I was trying to make is the real life one ,this government has forced through mases off ill concieved and ill judged legislation ,almost monthly the courts throw out attempts by Ministers in respect of Terror suspects ,the debacle over Junior Doctors Jobs ,and Hips ,to name just 3 off the top of my head ,I tried to back this fact up by recounting a conversation I had with our ward councillor, who in effect said that councills locally would not be inacting this law because it was unpopular and unworkable.

    Compare this statement to what is happening in Spain ,there are masses of people who in law have a case ,but trying to get their cases through the courts is fraught with difficulties, the unfortunate impact of real life over theory.

    I am not as you describe ,it was unfortunate our tiff, but not life threatening I hope we can move on

  • #72849
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This one is in reply to Gary, so unless you’re having a very boring Sunday morning, suggest you skip it!

    @GSB wrote:

    ….you saw fit to become extremely rude..

    Quote me an example. Something that even comes close to your rudeness when describing my words as ‘pompous and irrelevant’ and insinuating my ego needed massaging. And telling me to grow up.
    How rude (and pompous) is that, especially for a newcomer to the forum? Suggest you get off your high-horse, Gary.

    @GSB wrote:

    ….valid, but irrelevant to the main issue point..

    I respectfully point out it was you who brought up the UK comparison in the first place. I was just joining in on that part of the discussion.
    If you bring up something, it can be debated – and mine was only a single post on the subject. You consequently felt the right/need to reply – and so did I.
    Or is it a case of only GSB is allowed the right to reply?

    @GSB wrote:

    ….you then saw fit to ridicule me on several subsequent posts,incidentlaly long after the thread had returned to the main topic..

    Sorry I was late. I had been out. 😯

    If you mean you felt ridiculed when you stated how the EDMO was only “a proposal at this stage,and relates only to properties that have been abandoned” and I subsequently pointed out it had in fact been made law on 6th July 2006 and was not only targeted at abandoned properties…..well, what can I say. Sorry?

    @GSB wrote:

    ….Also I feel I should point out that my first and second posts urged everyone to join forces and form a pressure group,this amazingly was taken up by Suzanne…
    …So if you had carried out your research properly…..

    I just have – and note that Suzanne posted her suggestion for a petition, asking people to pm her with their names etc.. more than three hours before your very first post.
    So silly me was under the impression the petition was Suzanne’s idea….???

    @GSB wrote:

    ….the issue for me and I suspect most people is how can we help one another…..

    Many of us have been doing just that for a very long time on this forum.

    But often, where it’s appropriate, most of us also enjoy debating other issues on this forum besides simply Spanish property ones, such as ROI, laws, the stock market etc., and often UK is drawn into the discussion for comparison. All opinions/views/information should be allowed without being ‘leapt on’ as not being relevant. And let’s face it, the particular thread in question was only about a UK tv programme, hence the fact it was bound to go off-topic a bit now and then anyway. Luckily we don’t have ‘thread police’ here…..yet.

    @GSB wrote:

    ….I hope we can move on

    That’s what I tried to do when I wrote: “I agree our little debate has nothing to do with the bigger picture going on in Spain…so, back to topic…..?”.
    One hour later, obviously not willing to end it there, you posted your ‘pompous and irrelevant’ post to me.
    Let’s see if you can move on this time……

    @GSB wrote:

    ….I would like to say that I have found your postings to be well written and well informed

    Likewise.
    I have not introduced anything new in this post on purpose so as not to perpetuate the ‘debate’. I have simply replied to your points.
    Having both now had our say this evening, I think we’ve now thrashed this particular subject to death. Hope you agree.

  • #72852
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie, I have not read you posting fully as after 5 mins I lost the will to live you are factually wrong on at least 3 major points ,however for the sake of the forum I will not be responding,the Forums current Title is The Spanish Property Forum,not the Charlie I must be right on every thing I say Forum,you are displaying a strange intense self centered obsession with this tiny by comparison to what people are really interested in topic which is, how can I get my life back in order after getting involved in the Spanish property market .

    It is this main topic that I will like everyone else be concentrating on ,and for your information you do not own the Forum, and being a new member or not should not preclude any one from making a contribution

  • #72856
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @GSB wrote:

    …. and being a new member or not should not preclude any one from making a contribution

    Correct – as long as that contribution is not just an inappropriate and offensive rant in the form of a personal attack.
    Suggest you read the forum rules.

    After our success in court last Summer, I assure you I’ve already got my life ‘back in order’ wonderfully, thank you.
    Living on a beautiful sunny island, in the process of building our own house – life has never been better. And the best bit – far away from the nerds(*) of the world.

    Let’s see if you can move on this time….

    (*)referring to corrupt agents, lawyers and developers of course.

  • #72857
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes pleeeeease move on! I suspect that the PM route would be an ideal facility for those who wish to share their perceptions about each other’s comments at a personal and individual level.

  • #72859
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Please Oliver – don’t start putting ideas in Gary’s head. πŸ™
    I’m definitely moving on……before his will to live returns.

  • #72861
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oliver,Thanks mate, I think you took a bullet for me there, I owe you one!,

  • #72863
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Charlie/GSB

    i would just like to say that you both make very helpful and good sense contributions to this site, fighting on the same side for justice for the many who have been wronged by scum bags we now all know about. Stick to that and we will all continue to benifit. Looks to me like you are saying the same thing anyway but have both misunderstood each others angle on one point?. Please just leave it at that, and carry on the great work you are both doing.

  • #72872
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    😑

    To charlie and other likeminded people.

    For my part I will whenever possible, continue to expose the lying, cheating, and crooked scumbags who continue to rip-off naive or innocent buyers (who’ve trusted their advice) in Spain and elsewhere.

    It’s the principle that counts, and for those that say ‘move on’, well, they are probably in the property industry anyway, so have a huge financial interest in seeing their scams continuing, as does the Spanish Gov’t by not stamping down on things.

    So IMO, AVOID OCEAN ESTATES at all costs, for starters!!!!!

  • #72873
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Angie, One of the reasons for joining the Forum was that I too suffered when I made contact with the Spanish property industry , this also was at the hands of an unscrupulous REA ,however I have to say that an honest Agent assisted my case in providing vital information,and I emerged slightly battered but victorious,in addition a couple who we know have recently run into problems in respect of an Ocean estate purchase and seeing the effect it has had on them ,prompted me to participate in the Forum ,as they seem too upset to contribute but have been receiving feeds from me,I am equally sorry to hear of your situation ,but feel that all the support and knowledge that exists will prove to be a great benefit

  • #72874
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Angie wrote

    ‘For my part I will whenever possible, continue to expose the lying, cheating, and crooked scumbags who continue to rip-off naive or innocent buyers (who’ve trusted their advice) in Spain and elsewhere’.

    good for you Angie, i think any decent person will and is doing the same. I do think think we have to be very wary of misunderstandings though. I think in anger and frustration, good people are in danger of attacking those on the same side, which is such a shame as we have so much more power in unity.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.