One mans lessons

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  • #52603
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I follow another forum with regard to a non property subject, however they do have a section regarding buying abroad. A chap who has been a member for a few years now has posted the item below.
    Interestingly, I recall his excited posts when he was on the point of buying and his many questions to the forum about the pro’s and con’s of the purchase.
    Perhaps the message is getting out.

    Anyway, read on dear members…..

    Lessons from Spain



    After the recent activity on this board, I’d like to post here my
    experiences with Spain and share them with you. I make no apologies for
    the length of this post, and nor for the distinct lack of Political
    Correctness. So, here goes…

    What’s my involvement with Spain?



    Since Mar 2003, I have been involved in the purchase and
    sale/disposal/rejection of 4 properties there – 2 in Costa del Sol, and
    1 in Costa Blanca, and 1 in Murcia. I don’t own anything now.
    Why Spain? Well, I fell in love with it in 2002 and I’ve been having
    this love affair with it ever since, and if I don’t go there every 2-3
    months, I develop a nervous twitch. I had a dream of owning a property
    in Spain. But, you know, some dreams are better if they remain
    un-fulfilled. The difference between going to Spain regularly without
    owning a property, and actually having a house there is a bit
    like… going out with a beautiful girl and
    enjoying the fruits of nature… and actually marrying said girl, and
    then realising that thru domestic chores, and harsh realities, that the
    fruit doesn’t quite taste the same anymore .

    Sometimes, we’re busy chasing Dream A, and en-route, we trip over an
    un-known Dream B and we think “Hey, I didn’t see that there. But it
    looks nice, and I’ll have a bit of that, thank you.”

    That’s what’s happened to me. I have embraced the Spanish culture, I’ve
    embraced the great food, the hot weather, the language (am doing GCSE
    this summer) and I’ve embraced a couple of the local women, and got
    slapped in return. I will buy and live in Spain when I semi-retire.

    I am familiar with the 100 mile stretch from Aliante airport down to
    Mazarron; and the 50 mile stretch from Malaga airport down to Puerto
    Banus.

    Spain, as a country, is fantastic. But, when it comes to property
    purchase, there’s a few lessons I’ve learnt.

    Real Estate Agents



    If you thought that the agents in the UK are un-trustworthy, then just
    checkout the ones operating in CDS. There, you will find the biggest
    collection of wide-boys, barrow-boys and thugs outside of Romford. If
    any wide-boys or barrow-boys are reading this, and are offended, then I
    can assure you that it was all totally intended. (I did say I
    don’t ‘do’ political correctness.) Some of these guys are like Jade
    Goody – but without her intelligence or social graces.

    The best way to deal with an agent in Spain is to ignore 90% of what
    they say. When they open their mouths, look for ‘facts’, rather
    than ‘opinions’. When they say “property prices are due to rise 20%
    this year”, then that’s an opinion. So ignore. When they say “this
    apartment has 2 bedrooms” then that should be a fact, although
    sometimes that’s an opinion too.

    Many words can be used to describe estate agents, but I’ve coined the
    phrase “professional deceivers” because that is what their job title
    should really be. This may sound bitter, but it really isn’t. It’s a
    dog-eat-dog world we live in, and everyone has to make a living. Some
    by being honest, and others by being dis-honest. We just have to be
    aware of that. They’re doing what they do best, and we just need to be
    on our guard.

    Remember the motto : Believe nothing, question everything.

    Lawyers



    Many lawyers in Spain are very helpful, caring and competent. Honestly,
    they are. But here’s the problem – when they see a British buyer walk
    thru the door, a little switch in their heads flicks to ‘Incompetent
    Mode’. I’m sure they have a checklist for ensuring that service levels
    remain low when dealing with British clients…. and this list goes
    something like this…

    “Have I ignored the clients emails/phone calls?” Tick
    “Have I refused to clarify the legal points in the contract
    to client?” Tick.
    “Have I acted in the interests of the agent/developer and ignored the
    clients interests?” Tick.
    etc

    The common rule is that you should never use a lawyer recommended by
    the agent/developer – since the lawyer will be their mate and look
    after their needs and not yours. I believe it’s worse than that. Even
    if you pick an independent lawyer, then if you are using an
    agent/developer, then the lawyer will quickly form a bond these two and
    build a relationship with them – why? Because he wants to impress the
    agent/developer as they can supply him another 100 potential customers.
    And you are just using him for 1 purchase.

    What’s the way around this? Well there isn’t one if you are using an
    agent/developer. But if you buy direct from the owner, then the lawyer
    has no reason to suck up to the vendor.

    So, why do lawyers give such bad service to us Brits? Well, my guess is
    because of the following reasons…

    – we don’t speak the language, so are totally at their mercy

    – we know nothing about the legal/administrative process involved

    – we physically live so far away

    – we don’t know who to complain to, if we are not happy with their
    service.

    Location



    CDS is much more ‘posher’, or cleaner, or maturer, or advanced than
    Costa Blanca, which, in turm, is more than Costa Calida (Murcia). CDS
    is more lively thoughtout the year – esp. in winter when a lot of the
    facilities are still open. Costa Banca/Murcia is dead in the winter.

    Weather-wise, I prefer Costa Blanca (south of Torrevieja), as the dry
    heat there is incredibly healthy. In fact, some people I speak to say
    they moved there due to their arthritis problem in the UK, and their
    condition has got better as a result.

    But remember that, out of the peak season most of the ‘urbanisations’
    are like ghost towns. Occupancies levels in CB are less than 10%
    outside of peak months. The whole place has a desserted, sorry, feel
    about it.

    Off-plan or re-sale?



    When an agent in Spain mentions the phrase “off-plan” to you, look over
    your shoulder and spit.

    Do NOT even think of buying an off-plan. For reasons stated in a
    previous post, an off-plan sale is based on selling you assumptions, on
    false promises, on ridiculous price increase projections by agents, on
    selling you things that don’t exist and may never do so.

    They’re selling you a dream, and not a property.

    Again as mentioned on a previous post, buy a physical property that you
    can see, touch, feel, sit in, break wind in (if you so choose), and
    walk away from. Buy it in an urbanisation that actually exists – ie.
    where there are roads, there are electricity and water supplies, and
    there are telephone connections, there are bars and shops nearby. Buy a
    re-sale. There are hundreds of ‘Se Vende’ (‘For Sale’) signs all over
    the Costas. Ring the owners direct. This way, you are in control as no
    one will pressurise you. And remember prices are not rising – so take
    your time in buying. And you can make an offer way below the asking
    price.

    So, when should one buy



    I believe one should only buy when one is actually ready to LIVE in
    Spain. Don’t buy an investment – because what you buy won’t BE an
    investment. With this in mind, I think one should get to know Spain
    really, really well, before one decides to live there. And you will
    know Spain well, when….

    – you’ve lived there for at least 6 months, preferably in
    different areas
    – can say more than “dos cervezas” in the language, and are able to
    compose sentences like “Doctor, my bowel movements aren’t what they
    used to be”
    – you have accepted that, in terms of getting things done, or in terms
    of corruption, back-handers etc, that Spain is somewhere in between
    Asian countries and Northern European countries
    – you have a social network that extends to more than just meeting up
    with June and Ted down the ‘Union Jack’ bar in Torremolenous
    – you know your local area so well, that you know where the neighbours
    dog urinates every morning on his daily walk (Give yourself an extra
    point if you also know where the dogs owner urinates every evening on
    his way home from the Union Jack bar.)

    Other titbits



    If you find yourself….
    – standing in open field with an agent and he’s pointing a finger in
    the distance and saying “Over there will be a new commercial centre,
    over there will be a horse riding school….” then run as fast as you
    can;
    – having a problem paying the mortgage and bills in the UK, and your
    partner is saying (whilst in an agents office) “lets buy it love, I’m
    sure we’ll find the money from somewhere”, then run away from both
    the agent and your partner;
    – listening to an agent saying “the bank valuation is for 280,000Euros,
    and you’re getting it for 220,000Euros – so you’ve already made
    60,000 from the day you buy it”, then tell the agent that you know a
    very useful Spanish word – which is ‘cohones’*
    – enjoying the entertainment laid out by the agent during an
    all-inclusive £80 ‘inspection trip’, then enjoy the wine, the food,
    make polite conversation, but don’t sign anything, and thank the poor
    mug, sorry I mean an ‘investor’, who’s already bought on the previous
    trip and who’s money is being used to subsidise these inspection
    trips.

    Summary



    Basically , don’t buy an off-plan; buy when you can live there; live there before you actually buy; be on your guard.

    What I have said above probably applies equally well to Romania,
    Bulgaria, Dubai, Morocco or any other world ‘hotspot’ where the deadly
    combination of the following two things exist…

    – property is sold off-plan
    – property is sold mostly to overseas buyers as opposed to the locals.

    These are just my opinions, of course, and I have purposely emphasised the negative, and painted a realistic-if-dim picture, in a bid to alert newbies. I apologise if this sounded like lecturing, or moralising, or
    I-know-more-than-you, because none of these were intended.

    I’m sure there are many success stories, and I’m sure many people have
    made money. Please take this post in the spirit in which it is
    intended, and I welcome all comments/insults/abuse etc.

    I’ll sign off now (I hope to the background noise of tumultuous
    applause).

  • #68902
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have not met you but like you already the reasons

    1) Straight talking

    2) Calling spade a spade and taking no prisnors.

    3) Factual with experience.

    4) Sence of humour.

  • #68903
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    What a brilliant read.

    May be over the top for some, but in his “bid to alert newbies” – an excellent eye-opener.

  • #68904
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Better he stayed in good old blighty? Spain. Full of thieves and footpads 🙄

  • #68905
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    A fabulous read and hopefully many will read your wise words !

  • #68907
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Only one thing wrong with that post …. you didn’t cross reference the asterisk 😉

  • #68908
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    What a brilliant read.

    May be over the top for some, but in his “bid to alert newbies” – an excellent eye-opener.

    Hey Charlie…… we agree 😀

  • #68910
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    brilliant 10 out of 10

  • #68912
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Brilliant humorous portrayal of buying property in Spain and elsewhere in the world.
    The very best way to make people aware of the pitfalls.

  • #68913
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    He should patent this and it should be made into a leaflet and handed to every Brit entering Spain before they collect their luggage from the carousel! BRILLIANT!! 😆 I’m off to bed with a smile on my face!

  • #68927
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    How good is that!

    sums up thousands of e-mails and should be compulsory reading, as a health warning on all literature concerning buying in Spain!

    it shows the cat’s of the bag, just needs honest people in the right positions to listen and take action now!

  • #68938
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Articulate, amusing and – unfortunately – unpleasantly accurate.

  • #68939
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The post is from the motleyfool website. The discussion groups there are often very informative – for finance, expats, property and much more.

  • #68943
    Profile photo of Paul
    Paul
    Participant

    8)

    Great posting, I’m still clapping, look forward to more of the same please.

  • #69034
    Profile photo of redpip
    redpip
    Participant

    Great humour,loved the lawyers checklist bit ..oh if only you had written it in 2003..More please.

  • #69096
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I enjoyed reading that. Straight forward and to the point. Easy reading.
    Thank you

  • #69140
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Brilliant posting,the best by far.
    At least it brings some humour to what is far from funny for some.
    Great about selling the dream and is anyone aware of what Giddies are?
    Has anyone ever contributed to any of the forums from the salsemans/developers point of view of how they view the buyers?
    If not and if anyone is inerested i can suplly some great info that may help people in the future?

  • #69153
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just got back from a few weeks in Spain. Luckily didn’t fall foul of the “bad guys” when buying.

    I think this post is the best I have read on any of the sites that I have visited. Love the sense of humour and would love to live nearby when the guy “semi retires” to Spain.

  • #69154
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    The best l ve read to date

  • #69157
    Profile photo of Aunty Val
    Aunty Val
    Participant

    A very humorous post that reflects much of what is wrong with the Spanish property market.

    As with all posts there is a certain amount of truth involved as well as a little bit of “artistic license”.

    It should be given to all prospective buyers in Spain and every other country that is liklely to see British buyers – if you ignore a message like this then you would not have anyone else to blame but yourself if you ended up in trouble with a property in Spain.

    I must admit that the quality of buyers (in terms of their preparation, research and general understanding of the Spanish property market) is abismally poor so it is little wonder that so mant people fall fowl of the market.

  • #69159
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    [quote=”Aunty Val”

    I must admit that the quality of buyers (in terms of their preparation, research and general understanding of the Spanish property market) is abismally poor so it is little wonder that so many people fall foul of the market.[/quote]
    Think you summed it all up with that
    😆

  • #69160
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Aunty Val wrote:

    I must admit that the quality of buyers (in terms of their preparation, research and general understanding of the Spanish property market) is abismally poor so it is little wonder that so mant people fall fowl of the market.

    So people aren’t “falling fowl” of the market because they’ve been screwed by either their EA, their lawyer or the developer then?

    And there was I thinking it was the “abysmally poor” ethics and professionlism of many (not all!) EA’s and lawyers who overcharge, give little or no service once business is done and feel no responsibility to ‘their client’ whatsoever.

  • #69161
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Aunty val/Latchy

    who the hell do you think you are??????????

    I think that what you have summed up is a very pompous attitude towards people who have been conned, because at some stage they have had to put their trust in the hands of some scumbag with no morals, and who makes a living from telling lies. In some cases, buyers might well have been naive, but does that make it o.k for some low life con-man to betray their trust and rob them out of their life savings? I feel the subject of this post might be a bit closer to the truth than you feel comfortable with?

  • #69163
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    That says it all. Totally agree with you goodstich. There has been many tragic stories on this forum with people who has been totally lied to and mislead by oily salesman, with reassurings of backup, support and great investments. These people will phone you every day, become your best pal and will remember everybodys name in your household, including your parrot and your mother-in-law´s plastic surgeon. Of course they will flog you off plans that they know full well they are are not going to sell for you and as soon as you have signed on the dotted line, you are on your own mate.These people are the scum of the earth and on top of it portraying themselves to sell dream homes in Andalucia!

  • #69169
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m afraid this is about the fifth estate agent in as many months that has come out with this old coconut – “it’s the buyers at fault, they deserve all they get because they don’t do their research before buying”.

    Just once – once will do it – I would love to see an estate agent actually admit that there are many in their own profession that has fuelled the huge-scale corruption that exists in the Spanish property market.

    Val – like many others I know, I prepared, I researched and I read as much as I could to give myself a ‘general understanding’ of the market – yet I still got screwed by my agent (a catalogue of lies), my lawyer (no Bank Guarantee, contract full of developer-biased illegal clauses, perpetuated the lie that my purchase was on track when it wasn’t even built) and of course ………… royally screwed by the developer, who I had to take to court to get my money back.
    This ‘old coconut’ is a classic example of being in denial!
    (professionally, not personally).

    Goodstich is absolutely right, no purchaser deserves to have their trust betrayed. And to lay the blame at their feet for the indescribable mess many find themselves in is, IMO, insulting.

  • #69170
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    [quote=”Aunty Val”)

    It should be given to all prospective buyers in Spain and every other country that is liklely to see British buyers -[/quote]

    As ‘Aunty Val’ has such a low opinion of British buyers maybe it’s best she doesn’t do business with them 😡

  • #69172
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Is there anyone else out there who will admit that although doing extensive homework on buying abroad was not at times seduced by the excitement and prospect of a fantastic new abode that you believed what you were told. Doubts and concerns pushed aside.
    If not I stand alone.
    Now I know what was glossed over and the fibs and if I am to be totally honest , subconsciously, I was always aware.
    Not going down the route of bad lawyers because for those who won their case proves that there are excellent lawyers in Spain or the few rogue agents.
    Unfortunately there is an element of low life everywhere who will attempt to defraud folk of their money. Even most people who have bought abroad wouldn’t tell their best friend about the problems but instead paint rosy pictures.
    It is up to the buyer to be aware and humorous articles like this is the way forward. People will take more notice of advice given this way.
    Should be made into flyers and distributed at the property exhibitions.

  • #69173
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    ..and airport arrivals halls! 😉

  • #69174
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Yes its easy for agents to blame the buyers but in ones home country you know how it works and how much more or less prices are. Also property checks are more wide ranging ie searches will tell you if a major new development is to happen, or a coal mine or new roads. Also you have right to views and light!

    People buying outside in another country naturally HAVE to rely on the ‘experts’ opinion and truth – to hear such utter lies such as rental returns etc is appalling.

    No way around it I guess and unfortunately countries such as Spain are difficult for expats or immigrants to work in. This creates the scenario where money can be made but usually at the expense of another. The classic second-hand-car-salesman attitude is rife and not many people have morals.

  • #69175
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Melosine

    i agree with most of that, but we checked and checked on various details, even to the point of me being called over cautious and over cynical before we put a deposit down! How can you be aware of a agent or lawyer just not working for you and not giving you the truth even when you ask? Easy to be wise after the event.

  • #69176
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez

    good for you, for telling it like it is.

  • #69179
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    As I said, Goodstitch, buyer beware because there is always an element of society out to defraud .
    Everyone is vunerable these days. And everywhere unfortunately.

    Inez, even in England one doesn’t have an automatic right of view and light. Lots of news about people spending thousands fighting for this right…but to no avail.

    Claire, certainly airports as well. I suppose Mark wouldn’t be able to print this in his paper because of copyright.

  • #69180
    Profile photo of Aunty Val
    Aunty Val
    Participant

    Well I thought I might get a mixed response from my last post.

    Let me be very clear to all on this forum. I feel very saddened by the experiences of many that have been misled whilst trying to buy a home in Spain. I do not want to be seen as insulting or pompous however do we delegate all responsibility for our mistakes to others?

    I am very aware that many people may disagree with my views but I am only telling the truth. This may be painful for many but I shall not change my view just to fall in line with the “agent bashing” that goes on here.

    I am happy to admit that I actually detest most agents as much as many of you (although for differing reasons) however the fundamental problems surrounding the market in Spain have always been in relation to the ignorance of (some) buyers and the way in which lawyers are allowed to carry out their jobs.

    I see buyers on a daily basis that are ill-prepared for the prospect of owning a property in Spain. What should I say to them? Don’t buy in Spain because the whole system is corrupt? Go home and do some more homework? Agents will continue to sell to who is sat in front of them. Would you do any differently in your respective professions?

    In my opinion the reason for the current mess is additionally due to the legal system.

    In the UK, lawyers will always be the safety net for buyers – with the threat of the Law Society it is very unusual for a lawyer to be blatantly misleading or unsrcupulous.

    Agents and developers are governed by the Property Misdescriptions Act which can help to a certain degree, however even if they lie on their brochures etc the likelihood is that a lawyer will be able to spot the majority of problems.

    In Spain the reliance on lawyers is misplaced – sadly, many are working in conjunction with the agents or developers and this will lead to problems.

    If it were possible to have the same level of competancy and honesty that a British lawyer would be able to provide then it would reduce the number of unscrupulous developers and agents. It would also stop many of the buyers from jumping into situations that they later regret.

    No doubt I will get various responses from lawyers stating that I am being pompous or insulting. if so, I apologise!

    Aunty

  • #69183
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Aunty Val ‘quote’

    I see buyers on a daily basis that are ill-prepared for the prospect of owning a property in Spain. What should I say to them? Don’t buy in Spain because the whole system is corrupt? Go home and do some more homework? Agents will continue to sell to who is sat in front of them. Would you do any differently in your respective professions?

    To be honest yes – I have had 2 people in the office this week who still think there is good rental potential and have also been told prices will rise.

    Whilst I want to earn a crust, even when I was in the RE industry in the UK (back in the heady 1980’s) I didnt try to make the situation be what it is not.

    Truth is if you explain things fully to people and how it is, then they will still buy if it is right for them.

    Some wont and some will at a later date when they get their heads around it. I have numerous prospective buyers watching our site and asking questions. Most I tell to wait a bit longer until the market settles as for them it is not a right time.

    Given the full information buyers are perfectly capable of making their own minds up and if they make a wrong decision then it is their poison.

    Yes we have lost sales through it, but these people do come back and more importantly recommend you to others.

  • #69187
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez,

    I fully understand where you are comming from. But you cannot take decesions on behalf of the buyers unless you see something very obvious.

    I remember once in Costa Blanca, a man of around 70 years of age
    bought a appartment on the 11th floor. The block had no lift. I did tell him this but he still bought it.

    It, turned out that he was buying for his daughter. To me this was obvious that he would have struggeled with the stairs.

    ( No, I was not an agent I bumpred into him in a Bar, as one does !!!!!!)

  • #69188
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Aunty Val ‘quote’

    I see buyers on a daily basis that are ill-prepared for the prospect of owning a property in Spain. What should I say to them? Don’t buy in Spain because the whole system is corrupt? Go home and do some more homework? Agents will continue to sell to who is sat in front of them. Would you do any differently in your respective professions?

    Aunty Val

    while i realise survival is at stake, why on earth would you want somone ill-prepared, to buy from you? Wouldn’t you rather be honest and tell them the truth and then make a sale from based on honesty and transparancy? or are things so bad out there that being ‘economical with thr truth’ is the only way to make a sale? I realise you have a living to make, but surely preying on those who do not know any better is not a good way to change the corrupt system or ultimately improve things for anyone, buyers or sellers.

  • #69190
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Shakeel – I agree with you totally but buyers can make their own minds up once the imfomation is given to them. I have had the same instance where something was bought seemingly totally unsuitable. I did enquire about it and it turned out it was for another person anyway, so it can happen, but not often!

  • #69193
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Aunty Val wrote:

    ….. however the fundamental problems surrounding the market in Spain have always been in relation to the ignorance of (some) buyers and the way in which lawyers are allowed to carry out their jobs.

    So that clears that up then – it’s the buyers and lawyers at fault.
    And the way agents “are allowed to carry out their jobs” doesn’t even get a mention? 😯

    Val – I don’t regard criticising some agents as ‘agent-bashing’, it is just laying blame when/where some of the blame is due. Surely even you admit that is fair.
    So I don’t understand how you can put blame on lawyers and buyers and that’s ok, but when we mention agents – you call it ‘agent-bashing’?

    I know you are an agent, but isn’t that viewpoint rather lopsided?

  • #69195
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    Paul
    Participant

    👿

    It makes me very 👿 that some of these sad agents always blame purchasers for mistakingly trusting a so called honest agent, or purchaser greed. In many cases it’s the agent’s greed completely shafting innocent people when they should be advising them and showing due dilligence.

    Some of the sad agents here are reminiscent of Awful staff pretending to be otherwise.

  • #69199
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I would be interested to see the figures involved here.
    Of the TOTAL property sales on the Spanish Costas in the last ten years what percentage have gone pear shaped.And of that percentage how many deals involved UK buyers?.
    Bet it would make interesting reading.

  • #69202
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Ten years ago things were probably safer in purchasing than in today’s market. It is only since the numbers of (particularly) UK and German people decided that Spain was the place to invest/buy a second home, that the “rogues” saw that a LOT of money was to be made. Compared to the UK, Spanish property was soooo cheap for us and it had sunshine. 😀 Supply couldn’t keep up with demand . That’s when the property boom set in in Spain. Many UK EA’s saw the gold pot in the Spanish market and off they went to s*** their fellow countrymen and any others that they caught on the way.

    I would be interested to see the figures for successful purchases since 2001-2006 and compare those figures with say 1996-2000.

    What I think is very sad is that people who bought many years ago are now finding they have illegal property since the recent scandals came to light.

  • #69203
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi

    The EA works for the seller and I have always worked on that principal.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #69206
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    On this Paul, you are absolutely right. And looking back at my experience it is something I definitely lost sight of.

    Goodness, I hate it when I agree with you. 👿

  • #69266
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Excellent contribution. Wise words. Bang on.

  • #69268
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Great post and I would heartily agree, especially regarding off-plan. I would never recommend buying off-plan.

    Again, it is hard to express my opinions without seeming derogatory but here goes.

    There is a wide chasm between what you expect and what the Spanish deliver. From the day you first get the keys and the place is filthy, to the missed items on the snagging list, from the botched way the snagging items are fixed (if at all), from the Secretary/Administrator telling you you need a lifeguard for your pool and it’s going to cost lots, from the same Sec/Admin giving the garden and maintenance and pool maintenance contracts to his mates (also costing you lots), from your solicitor telling you don’t worry, things take time in Spain.

    The Sec/Admin telling you can’t spend that even if all the Owners want to because it may upset future nationalities who don’t agree with the spend, who haven’t even moved in yet, let alone paid any fees. To having a President who is the constructor who you can’t vote out because it takes ages to sell enough properties to get a majority and then the second phase gets its LFO so he gets the majority back again.

    From the total incompetence you find everywhere whether it be dealing with utilities, supermarkets, shops, restaurants. Great example, took some excess light fittings back to a small shop. Person dealing with me took some of the light fittings back to the stock room, forgot he’d done this and then only wanted to credit me for the number of lights on the counter. Buy one drink, get one free ‘Happy Hour’ in the local restaurant. Except when the bill comes, they’ve forgotten to honour the deal and charged you for all your drinks. It happens all the time.

    Sorry, I strayed from the off-plan topic of my thread. Guess, we’ve been lucky in that we do have approximately what was promised in the community – some gardens and a pool. However, what you cannot possibly anticipate off-plan is what the finish, standard and overall workmanship is like. Off plan it is hard to anticipate that your house is so close to your neighbours or that it doesn’t get any winter sun (unless you are smart enough to work out the orientation or view with a compass). Fortunatley, this is not one of the problems I have. That the neighbouring development of apartments overshadows your development and that it is rented out to rowdy holidaymakers or permanent residents whose dogs bark constantly.

    The sheer frustration of dealing with a Community if you’ve been used to living in a freehold property in the UK.

    Well, I think that’s enough from me. And finally, what really get’s me is a fellow Brit saying ‘oh, well, at least the sun’s shining’! – the panacea to all your problems!

    Thanks for reading.

    Jayne

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