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  • #52756
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi my names Georgie and I live in Northern Ireland,I joined this forum for advice on Spanish Propertys. We had been thinking of moving to Southern Spain and after a visit to Alicante I was put of moving because of the house I dont think you get a lot for your money we stayed in a private villa in El Campello a place called Coveta Fuma . We got some estate agents magazines and the price of some of the propertys were really expensive also I’ve been told of the Land Grab issues .makes me not want to buy anything with its own land some of the houses look lovely outside but the intererors are very small Can anyone tell me are most of the houses small i really like space or is there propertys that are more spacious to expensive We were going to spend about 300/350 uk sterling.

    Regards
    Georgie

  • #70485
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Gina_06

    Think you should investigate areas that are not popular with the British holidaymaker but still close to sea and cities. Pro rata the prices are very high per m. in the former areas and builds crammed in and small.
    I can only speak of my area of Murcia. Here we have to have a minimum of 5,000 sq.m of land and most builds are about 300 sq.m. Average price here is 3/400,000 euro’s .
    In recent years property has only been permitted to be built if the land has a minimum of 50 metres adjoining a thoroughfare. Most of which are already tarmaced.
    Like you we were very concerned about land grab issues, which are still occurring in other areas of Spain, so make it a priority to only buy where basic infrastructure is already in place and then don’t commit until you are assured that everything is in order. That’s the most difficult part.

  • #70489
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Gina_06
    That posting is simple and if you keep to those basic rules and always remember them at all times.
    You may hear good and you will read bad (trust me)as but keep to these rules and you should be one of the many many thousands of happy Spanish property owners

    Regards
    Jim 😀

  • #70512
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    When we were in Alicante the driver that picked us up from the airport told us a few stories ,so we sort of know the ups and downs with the housing market in Spain, He’s from the UK and has bought a house in the Alicante area loves it there . He told us he got a good deal and had a few friends to help him and he was aslo friends with the guy he got his villa off, but he also told us of some of the pitfalls in buying property there ,I suppose I will hear many things but thats a good thing isnt it ?

    Georgie 🙂

  • #70571
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Georgie

    For the amount you have you should be able to find a lot of large places. El Campello is not the best place to be, there are better. As a rough guide you should be paying no more than €150/M for the land (in some high value areas this can rise to €250 depending on what is available in the coastal regions. However for Inalnd areas you can get this much cheaper) plus about €1300 – 1500/M for the building itself. So for 400,000 sterling that is about 550,000 euros you should get a plot of 1000M and a build of 200M> However this is Urbano land (ie building landor built land) .

    If it is rustic, no matter where it is, if it is less than 10,000M there is a very good chance it is not legal.

    If you are worried about land grab, NEVER buy anything on Suelo Rustico (which is basically agricultural land). However Inland it is possible to get a huge sprawiling mansion with acres of land for about 500,000 euros.

    It really depends on where you want to be and what you want.

    But the caveat is

    DO not buy Rustic land. Land grab is extending past the Valencia Province and still exists no matter what the V. Government tries to say.

    Good luck and best wishes in your search

    Vince

  • #70626
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This has been copied from another site for Andalucian homeowners. I find this even more worrying than “Land Grab” in Valencia as it seems to have been imposed on owners in urbanised areas.

    Does this mean that all homeowners in Spain are vulnerable. Or is there a way of avoiding infrastructure charges.

    Thousands of home owners in Estepona, Nerja, San Roque, Cadiz, etc. have huge infrastructure charges put on their homes by a Junta de Compensación (the developers). Some pensioners with €30,000 to pay will have to sell their homes. Why should people who have lived in their homes for many years with electricity, water, roads, drains, etc have to pay for the developers’ new infrastructure. This does not happen in any other E.U. country. [/b]

  • #70628
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sounds like a good case for the European Court of Human Rights.

  • #70629
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Jules

    it probably is similar to LRAU land grab. The fact that a house has electricity and water doesn’t mean it is on Urbano or urbanised land. There are many many rustic houses that have full services because they are in fact legal.

    Normally on rustic land you can only legally build a house if you have more than 10,000 Sq M and depending on where you are you can build around 2% of this. Once finished you can then get water and electricity

    However uo until last year the town halls had discretionary powers to grant building on smaller plots. (the idea was to allow plots of around 5,000M to be built on) however this being Spain a few town halls relaxed this very much to the point where you can find a house on rustic land of 500M, 800M etc.

    Because it is rustic land it is likely that a developer could come along and in co-operation with the town hall (read passing money under the table) which is probably what has happened in this case. The Junta of Andalucia passed a similar land grab law to LRAU about 3 years ago (not much was said about it at the time because everyone was focussed on Valencia and LRAU)

    Hence something like this can happen where a developer decides it is financially profitable to make an urbanisation and the poor landowners have to pay reparcelation costs. Under the new replacement LUV these costs can only be charged if the actual owner is using thse services (ie paying for connections to water drains etc) and a reasonable amount towards the infrastructure costs – ie a few hundred or a couple of thousand at most, as it will directly affect the value of their homes.

    However Andalucia has so far escaped much criticism of their laws because it has been primarily focussed on Valencia. However there is an organisation – abusos urbano No, who are taking the Valencia government and the Spanish government to court over this and sanctions are being threatened. They also have a similar organisation in Andalucia that has teamed up with AUN. Do a google on Abusos No and you will get their website. Send an email to Chuck Svodoba and he will put you in touch with the relevant people.

    Under EXCEPTIONAL circumstances already urbanised land can be expropriated where there is a purely social use – ie building of a school or college. The land owners should be recompensed at a fair market value. But this is Spain and the town halls do what they like

    Hope this explains things for you

    Vince

  • #70630
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thank you for your thorough response. I am aware that other regions have their own versions of Land Grab and, in particular, Andalusia. However, it was the bit about Estepona Golf that rang alarm bells (see below for another bit of the thread) as I had assumed this area to be fully urbanised.

    What’s happening is like what started up in Valencia but the Junta De Compensacion (the developers) are not taking parts of owner’s gardens.
    They are just making exsisting homeowners pay for their new infrastructure they need. Charges at Estepona Golf range from €5000.00
    for 1 bed Apartment to €70.000.00 for a 4 bed villa.
    Puerto Romano, Forrest Hills, Valle Romano, El Padron and Estepona Golf in Estepona all have huge infrastructure charges.

    My own property is in Denia on an urbanisation so I had assumed I would be protected from this sort of thing. But from what you say, can I presume that the above areas have never been urbanised.

  • #70631
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Jules

    I dont think you have anything to worry about in Denia – there is a moratorium on building in Denia. The town hall have pretty much stopped any new building (the ones in process are at present are ones which were granted permission 2 and 3 years ago)

    However if you have any concerns let me know which area of Denia and I can tell you whether it is urbanised or not (I know Denia very well as I live in Oliva)

    Regards

    Vince

  • #70634
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Vince

    I have no doubt that my apartment block is on urbanised land (La Pedrera near the school) but when I initially read the article, I had assumed the costs were being imposed on urbanised properties. From what you have said, this is unlikely.

    Interesting, I didn’t realise building had been suspended in Denia – do you know how long this is for and is it likely to be reinforced once the elections are over?

    Jules

  • #70636
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Maybe I’m reading this wrong but it sounds more like anyone (within these area’s) who own on a legal community(urbanisation) but have empty development land close by, are suffering .

    EURO MP TEED OFF
    ‘Outraged’ MEP Michael Cashman backs Estepona Golf residents

    By David Eade

    MICHAEL CASHMAN, THE FORMER EASTENDERS STAR TURNED EURO MP, HAS BACKED THE EMBATTLED RESIDENTS OF ESTEPONA GOLF, DECLARING THAT HE IS “OUTRAGED” AT THE ENORMOUS INFRASTRUCTURE CHARGES THEY ARE FACING.
    The Euro MP, who has been leading the fight against the so-called ‘Land Grab’ laws in Valencia, was contacted by Stephen Kimsey, one of the Estepona Golf residents.
    In written correspondence seen by Costa del Sol News, Mr Kimsey informed Michael Cashman of the plight of thousands of homeowners living on the coast. “People in rural communities with full infrastructure are having charges put on their title deeds,” he told the MEP.
    Regarding his own case, he told Mr Cashman, “I have a charge of 28,350 euros placed on my home. I have lived here on Estepona Golf course for over six years. Our registered community has drains, electric, streetlights, roads and land line telephones. But the British owner of the Golf course Mr. Rory Leader, wants to develop in the area and formed a ‘Junta de Compensación’ with other developers. They want me and my neighbours to pay over one million euros for their infrastructure.”
    The Estepona Golf residents say they are concerned not just about their own urbanisation, but also about similar situations in Estepona’s Puerto Romano and other places like San Roque, Mijas and Nerja.
    In his reply to Mr Kimsey, also seen by CDSN, Michael Cashman stated, “I’m outraged by what is happening to you. This is another clear example of a rip off.” He promised to send details of the Estepona Golf case on to the European Parliament’s Petitions Committee secretariat.

    MEP’S ADVICE
    The Euro MP also advised all those facing a similar dilemma to inform the British Embassy in Madrid as well as the group Abusos Urbanísticos No, “who are working on similar issues in the Valencia region but who are in contact with other affected people in other parts of Spain.” They can be contacted via their website (http://www.abusos-no.org). Mr Cashman added that Mr Kimsey and the other affected residents may want to consider submitting a petition on their particular case to the European Parliament. Information on the process for doing this can be on the EP’s website (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament).

  • #70643
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Maybe I’m reading this wrong but it sounds more like anyone (within these area’s) who own on a legal community(urbanisation) but have empty development land close by, are suffering .

    This was my query, although maybe not articulated well enough. The problem with rural land has been well documented but this article seems to indicate that even well established legal urbanisations are being targetted?? I wasn’t sure as I don’t know Estepona Golf and the surrounds, but I assumed it was on urbanised land.

    So is there a point, I wonder, where homeowners are immune to infrastructure charges.

  • #70649
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Not sure of the status of the land in question so it is difficult to comment. However it is not possible to re urbanise urbanised land. The only grounds for expropriation of urbanised land is where it is needed for social use (Hospitals, schools etc)

    What seems to be happening here is there is another area of the golf course that is not urbanised. Because the owner of this land is the developer of the golf course and he cannot expropriate land and charges on himself, then he is trying his hand.

    I think in this case if a decent lawyer was on the case would get nowhere because imho he doesn’t have a leg to stand on and is trying his hand. Unless of course the Andalucia land laws are very different to the Valencia ones but I believe they were fashioned on LRAU

    Jules, your urbanisation is indeed safe. The moratorium on building work as far as I know is indefinite and may be made permanent by central government in Madrid. It is one of the coastal areas of the Valencia province that are under scrutiny for over development of the coastline. (not that there is much coastline left in Denia of course)

    As I said from what I understand there is no more new building permitted unless it is already granted and or if it is brownfield (ie land that had buildings on it already)

    Vince

  • #70654
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It will be interesting to see what happens in this case then.

    I am pleased to hear about the moratorium on building in my area and there do seem to be less cranes around these days, unless you are driving along the Las Marinas Road.

    When I purchased four years ago, most of the other owners were northern europeans using the apartments for occasional use. Since then, the majority have sold to young Spanish families for residential use. From experience, do you know how this might impact on resale potential.

    Not that I want to sell. I see myself using the place for probably another ten years – it was always a long term purchase. However, it would be good to get an idea of factors that affect the market – other than the obvious supply and demand.

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