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This topic contains 30 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 7 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #55043
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I just found a property in Nerja. I have made an offer , and after a little haggling, We agreed on a price

    The question is, what should I do next, I live in US and the owner lives in Ireland.

    Questions?

    What is a normal deposit?
    Who does the work? An attorney or a Notary?
    How long is the process?
    Who gets the payments? Notary? (Deposit and final payment)
    Do I give a deposit check to the realtor?

    This will be a cash deal; do I pay something under the table? (Any advantage to that)

    Did I forget anything?
    Any advice is very much appreciated

    Best regards.

    David

  • #92505
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Spain being Spain, nothing is fixed. I will try and answer some of the issues.

    What is a normal deposit?

    10%, YOU COULD GO FOR COMPLETION DIRECTLY. ENSURE THAT YOU SET OUT WHO PAYS FOR WHAT E.G TAXES, PLUS VALIA ETC.

    Who does the work? An attorney or a Notary?
    NOTARY COMES LATER, IF YOU ARE IN STATES THAN ITS PRUDENT TO USE A LAWYER/ABAGADO OR ATTORNEY. THE QUESTION IS WHERE DO YOU FIND AN HONEST ONE, WHO IS HALF PROFESSIONAL . ???

    How long is the process?

    HOW LONG IS A PIECE OF STRING. YOUR ATTORNEY HAS TO DO HIS WORK, SEARCHES, CHARGES, TITLES ETC AND AN APPOITMENT WITH THE NOTARY.

    Who gets the payments? Notary?
    I WOULD GO STRAIGHT FOR COMPLETION & CUT OUT THE DEPOSIT. THIS CASE YOU DONT NEED TO GIVE YOUR MONEY TO ANYONE, AGAIN AS I WOULD NOT TRUST ANY ONE OF THEM. ASSUMING THEIR IS NO CASH INVOLVED, MAKE A BANKERS CHEQUE IN FAVOUR OF THE BUYER. DONT FORGET YOU HAVE TO WITHOLD 3% CAPITAL GAINS TAX AS THE BUYER IS A NON RESIDENT.

    (Deposit and final payment) Do I give a deposit check to the realtor?

    NO WAY JOSE, YOU MAY NEVER SEE HIM OR HER AGAIN. IN SUCH A MATTER I WOULD TRAVEL TO SPAIN & BE IN CONTROL OF EVENTS & DO NOT GIVE A POWER OF ATTORNY TO YOUR LAWYERS. IF YOU HAVE TO PAY A DEPOSIT MAKE A CHEQUE PAYABLE TO THE SELLER & NOT TO THE REALTOR OR THE LAWYER.

    SAD, THAT ONE CANNOT TRUST ANYBODY IN SPAIN. THEY ONLY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME. GOOD LUCK

  • #92506
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hello Shakeel.

    Thanks for the reply.
    Do you know if we have lawyers in this site that are recommended to contact?
    What about a Notary?

    Thanks

    @shakeel wrote:

    Spain being Spain, nothing is fixed. I will try and answer some of the issues.

    What is a normal deposit?

    10%, YOU COULD GO FOR COMPLETION DIRECTLY. ENSURE THAT YOU SET OUT WHO PAYS FOR WHAT E.G TAXES, PLUS VALIA ETC.

    Who does the work? An attorney or a Notary?
    NOTARY COMES LATER, IF YOU ARE IN STATES THAN ITS PRUDENT TO USE A LAWYER/ABAGADO OR ATTORNEY. THE QUESTION IS WHERE DO YOU FIND AN HONEST ONE, WHO IS HALF PROFESSIONAL . ???

    How long is the process?

    HOW LONG IS A PIECE OF STRING. YOUR ATTORNEY HAS TO DO HIS WORK, SEARCHES, CHARGES, TITLES ETC AND AN APPOITMENT WITH THE NOTARY.

    Who gets the payments? Notary?
    I WOULD GO STRAIGHT FOR COMPLETION & CUT OUT THE DEPOSIT. THIS CASE YOU DONT NEED TO GIVE YOUR MONEY TO ANYONE, AGAIN AS I WOULD NOT TRUST ANY ONE OF THEM. ASSUMING THEIR IS NO CASH INVOLVED, MAKE A BANKERS CHEQUE IN FAVOUR OF THE BUYER. DONT FORGET YOU HAVE TO WITHOLD 3% CAPITAL GAINS TAX AS THE BUYER IS A NON RESIDENT.

    (Deposit and final payment) Do I give a deposit check to the realtor?

    NO WAY JOSE, YOU MAY NEVER SEE HIM OR HER AGAIN. IN SUCH A MATTER I WOULD TRAVEL TO SPAIN & BE IN CONTROL OF EVENTS & DO NOT GIVE A POWER OF ATTORNY TO YOUR LAWYERS. IF YOU HAVE TO PAY A DEPOSIT MAKE A CHEQUE PAYABLE TO THE SELLER & NOT TO THE REALTOR OR THE LAWYER.

    SAD, THAT ONE CANNOT TRUST ANYBODY IN SPAIN. THEY ONLY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME. GOOD LUCK

  • #92507
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @bentdavi wrote:

    I just found a property in Nerja. I have made an offer , and after a little haggling, We agreed on a price

    The question is, what should I do next, I live in US and the owner lives in Ireland.

    Questions?

    What is a normal deposit?
    Who does the work? An attorney or a Notary?
    How long is the process?
    Who gets the payments? Notary? (Deposit and final payment)
    Do I give a deposit check to the realtor?

    This will be a cash deal; do I pay something under the table? (Any advantage to that)

    Did I forget anything?
    Any advice is very much appreciated

    Best regards.

    David

    Are you buying the property un-seen?

  • #92508
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hello

    I have seen the area, and the outside of the apartment.

    Those are side by side apartment, not a tall building.

    Are you buying the property un-seen?[/quote]

  • #92509
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @bentdavi wrote:

    Hello

    I have seen the area, and the outside of the apartment.

    Those are side by side apartment, not a tall building.

    Are you buying the property un-seen?

    [/quote]

    There are so many internal problems that an apartment can have and they are not disclosed…

    My advise would be to NOT buy in Spain without checking every single corner of the apartment. You can always pay a snagging company to do this for you or at least a bank valuation.

  • #92510
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I would not buy without viewing the property. All you may know is that it has totally been thrashed, dampness, no kitchen cabinets, white goods/ bath fittings, air conditioning/radiators missing, cracks from subsidence, roof leaking. I am not trying to discourage you. It is un real what people do as users, developer, builder etc.

    You are making the classic mistake by not seeing & trusting/relying on others to do the work for you which you should be doing irrespective of the Country that you are buying. Remember if you cannot iron this problems out yourself for whatever reasons, why should others do. Delgation of responsiblty is very subjective in Spain & Agency/breach of duties are not a concept that exist in Spain.

    Remember you trying to buy a substancial Asset & your future comfort zone. This not a distance buying of a book or CD from Amazon.

    In so far as a recommended lawyer is concerned. I sugguest you get in touch with Mark. Frankly even if you have a lawyer you will still need some one to hold your hands through the process.

  • #92511
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @bentdavi wrote:

    Hello

    I have seen the area, and the outside of the apartment.

    Those are side by side apartment, not a tall building.

    Are you buying the property un-seen?

    [/quote]

    I checked Expedia, you can buy a roundtrip Phoenix-Malaga in July for
    $779.

    http://www.expedia.com/Flights?c=3692a2aa-4240-4494-8eff-46a8b6244633&

    Don’t be greedy with $800, there is much more to lose in Spain by buying unseen…

  • #92514
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I fully second flosmichael. It will be foolish if money is not an issue to travel. You may be time poor. In which case dont buy until you have time on your hand.

    Remember, you are buying for cash & if things go wrong you cannnot take a financially pragmatic decesion of leaving the 75% mortgage & write off your 25%. Here you will be writing off your 100% plus taxes etc.

  • #92515
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have already bought a flight to go there next week, I returned from there 2 weeks ago and had a great time for an entire month.

    I will go back next week and close on a deal. (actually 2 deals) I think I will be buying 2 apartments. from 2 separate agents.

    I really do need to find out more about what all is involved in a closing.

    As Shak mentioned , Taxes, plus valia, and capital gain.

    How do I contact Mark? Is he a lawyer?

    Any tips will help a bunch

    Thanks again

  • #92519
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In addition to everything said above, I assume you are a US Citizen and do not have an EU passport? If so, you should take advice from your tax advisers on the implications in regard to how the IRS may treat any income/expenditure on these properties. You also realise, I assume, that you will not easily qualify for residency in the EU (unless you also hold an EU passport)? Your visits will be on a tourist visa only, limited to 90 days. My wife is a US citizen (now with dual UK nationality) so I am fairly familiar with the complications that can arise…

    Andy

  • #92520
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Bentdavi,

    Get a good lawyer. You can find one here:
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/lawyers/list-of-lawyers-in-spain/#malaga

    Bone up a bit on the process, which you can do reading this section:
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/buyers-guide/

    Don’t take any chances.

    Make sure you drive a hard bargain. It’s a buyers’ market.

    Nice to see someone investing in Spain. Good luck.

    Mark

  • #92521
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    What is a normal deposit?
    Varies. To reserve a property you need to put something down, whether 500€ or 5000€. Most agencies would look at between 3/6000€
    Who does the work? An attorney or a Notary?
    in spain, in most cases it is a lawyer or a gestor.
    How long is the process?
    varies. to do all the legal checks, etc… 2 weeks. If you need a mortgage, 3/4 weeks. transfering the funds from the US, etc… In most cases, around 4/6 weeks
    Who gets the payments? Notary? (Deposit and final payment)
    Deposit is normally held the lawyers or estate agents. Either way, make sure your money is safe
    Do I give a deposit check to the realtor?
    or lawyer.

    This will be a cash deal; do I pay something under the table? (Any advantage to that)
    No.

    Did I forget anything?

    Confirm who pays what taxes. Do not get lumbred with plusvalia. Thats for the vendor to pay. Most taxes and notary fees get lumbered on the buyer.

    Depending on what sort of reservation agreement you sign, I would recommend that you do a contracto de Arras (private contract). This will allow you to strenghen your position. I disagree with shakeel about putting down a deposit. As soon as you start the purchase you accrue costs. Lawyer fees, valuations (if you interested), booking flights, lost working hours, etc… If you do a private contract, you can ateast make sure if the vendor pulls out, you can reclaim double what you put down.
    Also if you are buying the property for 100,000€ (for example) on signing at the notary, present bankers drafts for each payment individually.
    For example:
    50,000€ vendors mortgage
    5,000€ realtor
    3,000€ retencion
    2,800€ plus valia
    etc….

    You make sure the vendor gets whats meant for him and your legal help makes sure all other cheques go to the right parties. If not the only comeback will be on you!

  • #92523
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    BentDavi

    I have sent you a PM – I will send you a guide FOC.

    One other thing is to ensure that if you transfer money you use a currency broker as banks tend to give tourist rates even on large transfers, which could cost you $000´s which would be better in your pocket.

    If you have ANY conditions that may force you not to buy (ie aunt peggy has to see it first) Put these into the private contract. If anything stops you going ahead and they are not in the contract you WILL lose your deposit

    Any money you give over as a deposit ideally you should hold in an escrow or third party account (ie your solicitor if they are truly independent and nothing to do with the seller). This way if the seller backs out or you back our for genuine reasons then you can get your money back (try getting it from a seller who has already spent it)

    With regards to a solicitor/Abogado . Do not get one who is in town, or related in anyway to the area. It is much better to find one outside of town. Even if the seller is Irish they may be well known, Nepotism rules here in Spain and solicitors in general are decent people but they have been tarred by many poor representations of their clients over developers/friends etc

    As Mark says you are a buyer in a strong position, drive a hard bargain, theres plenty about.

    Finally do not ever buy a place in Spain without seeing it first. This is so fundamental – even two apartments next door to each other can vary wildly. For example there may be illegal additions that you dont know about until you get in there, it may not be what you think, there may be all manner of problems that could cost a fortune to put right

    Good luck and best wishes

    Vince

  • #92524
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Never buy without seeing. We have viewed some in the UK and sometimes the area looks completely different from the web, even with zooming in on google maps.

  • #92525
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thank you very much, it is appreciated.

    @mark wrote:

    Bentdavi,

    Get a good lawyer. You can find one here:
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/lawyers/list-of-lawyers-in-spain/#malaga

    Bone up a bit on the process, which you can do reading this section:
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/buyers-guide/

    Don’t take any chances.

    Make sure you drive a hard bargain. It’s a buyers’ market.

    Nice to see someone investing in Spain. Good luck.

    Mark

  • #92526
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi all
    I can’t believe that nobody as mentioned the NIE number, to have one is compulsory to purchase property in Spain, and of course you will need to open a Spanish bank account, niether of these are are problem though.

    I would strongly go along with the advice given here to get a good recomended solicitor, then relax and let them do everthing that needs to be done.

    When we completed on our property in February the day went like this,

    11.00 Went to lawyers office, he sat us down and expained what would happen and gave us the information that he had compiled through his searches, he expained that the property was legal and had all the relevent licences, he also told us that the house was free of debt and that he was happy for us to proceed.
    11.30
    Was escorted by one of the lawyers henchmen, sorry assisstants to the local police station where we were marched to the front of a very long queue, our man gabbled away in very fast spanish to the man who appeared to be in charge. We were seated and after our passports were inspected we signed the NIE register.
    12.00
    We were escorted from the police station to the bank, this is the knee trembler bit when you see all your money disappear, again our man rattled off in Spanish to the bank manager, he was telling him that our lawyer had requested that the cost of the bankers cheques were kept to the minimum(this can be a huge cost espicaly if you are paying in cash, you have to pay commision on the lot). After heated conversations between them we were told that if we took out home insurance with the bank they would half the commision costs, of course we did.
    I had to sign the cheques for the following
    The vendor
    The vendors outstanding mortgage
    The lawyer
    The notary
    The vendors estate agent
    The tax office
    This all added up the agreed purchase price, to the cent.
    12.45
    We were escorted to the notaries office and ushered into a large room, there, was the vendors and there lawyer, the estate agent(to collect his cheque), the notary and us and our lawyer. We had to wait for 30 mins for the director of the bank that held the vendors mortgage(apparently they are always late).
    14.00
    We had the keys to our new home and even came away with a stamped copy of the escritura(title deeds), apparently this does not always happen.

    And all this for slightly less than 1% of the purchase price.

    The end of a fantastic day never to be forgotten.

    The moral of the story, get yourself the best lawyer possible.

    Steve

  • #92527
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    All of this is very different for a citizen of an EU country vs. a citizen of a Non-EU country IF the intention is residence. Buying to invest with very limited occasional visits on a tourist visa is one thing. Planning on staying (and opening bank accounts) is totally different. Try opening a bank account on a tourist visa in the UK, or in the US…. so, it is a problem – a big one – if you are not an EU citizen.

    Andy

  • #92616
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I contacted 3 of the lawyers on that list , by email and by phone, NO reply from anyone.

    @mark wrote:

    Bentdavi,

    Get a good lawyer. You can find one here:
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/lawyers/list-of-lawyers-in-spain/#malaga

    Bone up a bit on the process, which you can do reading this section:
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/buyers-guide/

    Don’t take any chances.

    Make sure you drive a hard bargain. It’s a buyers’ market.

    Nice to see someone investing in Spain. Good luck.

    Mark

  • #92623
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    a surprise ? maybe they operate from a caravan ?????? try an office with a long term track record and reputation in the local community !!!!!!!!!!!

  • #92629
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “I contacted 3 of the lawyers on that list , by email and by phone, NO reply from anyone. “

    Welcome to Spain.

  • #92662
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It is ridiculous, No one is replying. It is going on 2 weeks plus, and repeated emails and calls.

    What is the difference between a facilitator and a Lawyer?

    Thanks

    @shakeel wrote:

    “I contacted 3 of the lawyers on that list , by email and by phone, NO reply from anyone. “

    Welcome to Spain.

  • #92663
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In addition to being unprofessional. They are incompetant, irresponsible, down right corrupt & want to charge you 1% of the purchase price. No wonder that Spaniards dont use them.

  • #92664
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Obviously business is booming and they’re all too busy!

    I’ll look into it Bentdavi. Sent you a PM, please read and get back to me.

    Mark

  • #92666
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark either it was a diplomatic reply to Bentdavi or you have lived in Spain for tooooooooooooo long.

  • #92668
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Would anyone even consider hiring a Lawyer who cannot be bothered to answer an intitial enquiry 😯 I thought that was what they are supposed to do after they got their hands on the upfront fee 😆

  • #92669
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    I thought that was what they are supposed to do after they got their hands on the upfront fee 😆

    That was in the good ol’ days Katy. It seems Spanish lawyers are finding new levels of conduct.

    Or maybe they are all in jail ?

  • #92671
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Would anyone even consider hiring a Lawyer who cannot be bothered to answer an initial enquiry”

    Exactly, Katy, this is when they should be seing the € signs. You can imagine how they would deal with you once they have your money. It for this reason and against my better judgement that I do not recommend any one to use a lawyer. I know its not common sense or prudent.

    They screw things up & than would not release your files, whilst in the mean time the clock is ticking

  • #92687
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I got an email today from one of the Lawyers. He finaly replied.

    Well too late , I have contacted others in the Nerja area.

    He replied immediately.

    By the way can someone tell me the difference of a Lawyer and facilitator

    Thanks all you’ve been great.

    David

  • #92688
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    A genuine lawyer will hold full, professional qualifications and be recognized at court. This does not, of course, mean they are going to be any good….

    By “facilitator” do you mean a Gestoria?

    http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/the_gestor_gestoria/

    Andy

  • #92689
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The second lawyer we had was based in Nerja. (recommended by English friends living there) All seemed fine until we were asked to pay a sizable sum of money into the private account of the assistant lawyer who was going on maternity leave the following week. We refused…it all got very ugly 😯 We then finally found a good Lawyer (No.3)!

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