MEDALS FOR MALAYA ACCUSED MEN

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This topic contains 70 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 9 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #52600
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Quote from typicallyspanish:

    ‘The Mayor of Benalmádena, Enrique Bolin from the GIB party, has awarded the medals of the city to two men who are charged in the Malaya corruption case in Marbella.

    The honours go to the Córdoba businessmen Rafael Gómez, and Cristóbal Peñarroya, who are both currently on bail. The awards go for business and social merit.
    © typicallyspanish.com’

    Penarroya is the developer for La Reserva. HOW can this happen ❓ ❓
    UNBELIEVABLE ❗ ❗ ❗

  • #68883
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    😯

    No comment at all!

  • #68884
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In UK, this will known as Old boy net work or the school tie,

  • #68885
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In the 90s, there use to be A Spanish programe called LA MECINA DE VERDAD.

    Jesus Jill y Jill , needs no introduction was on and was asked three questions on a property scandel in the north of Madrid along with his son.
    He was found to be lying on all three questions. In any any other Country he would have been finished as far as business goes.

    People still went and voted for him as Mayor of Marbella and later his son Mayor of Estepona.

    I understand Jill son is now doing a a project in Tangiers and as per agents guess who is buying there no less than Donald Trump.

  • #68886
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Loosely translated the medals are called “the brown envelope honour. Its old news though been around for a few months.

    Re. Donald Trump buying in Tangiers, well Bill Gates is looking in Malta…yeah…Real Estate agents…don’t you love ’em.

  • #68888
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Shussh! very secret but I have news for you all.

    Today I was contacted by Her Royal Majesty, Lizzie – she wants to buy a couple of units in Duquesa and a villa in Marbella at Auction!

    Please dont pass this one on!

  • #68889
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry, but I’ve lost my sense of humour on this one. Penarroya owes a lot of us a GREAT DEAL of money & a Politician handing him over a medal for this is too serious to joke about.
    It just shows how thick the ROT has set in & what a battle we have on our hands – as if I need reminding 🙄 🙄 🙄

  • #68890
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Suzanne

    looks like a good subject for a consumer prog’ with teeth to get in to, if there is such a thing?

    How sick is this, and what chance of bringing the crooks to justice if they are being given medals. What a complete heap of shite that whole system is!

  • #68891
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Unfortunately the Trevor Maconald programme on Reserva de Marbella didnt do much but if its any consolation to anyone we hear from the groundforce out here and many business are closing from all woalks as there is nothing happening. Their properties are being added to the market and the spanish side is just as quiet, so pressure will come down for something to happen.

    Personally I think its all over now and the recession/stagnation is in to stay for a while!

    Its not highlighting thats needed but a reality in the market place and some consumer confidence.

  • #68892
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Inez,

    Suzanne featured on the Trevor Mcdonald program at La Reserva! 😉

  • #68893
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    It was good but like the last programmes doesnt go far enough. The trouble is it would take a whole week of programms for the layman to understand what is going on down here!

    I remember Suzanne though looking in through her window. I know Reserva very well, we resold (mainly to the Spainsh) many units there from distressed sellers. When the Malaya case went pearshaped we had around 7 sales fall through in Reserva over teh summer as the banks all pulled away from it. We have one going though where the buyer is Spanish, is happy with the system and of course is not relying on top valuations to finance the whole deal! He has cash!

  • #68894
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Inez wrote:
    Unfortunately the Trevor Maconald programme on Reserva de Marbella didnt do much’.

    I disagree with you Inez. Appx 4 million people watch this show. There were many watching who couldn’t get info from their crooked lawyers & at last found out what was going on, some of whom now get support on this forum. Snr Penarroya was exposed together with his company for bribary & continuing to try to sell illegal apartments by an undercover reporter. Not earth-shattering, I know, but better than just watching and waiting.

  • #68895
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez,
    Your secret is safe with us. However the Palace is full of intrigue, would you like to be hanged at Hampton Court or Plaza de Torres in marbella ????

    Before you decided you must find an Egyptian boyfriend.

  • #68896
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Goodstich – great idea. There are certain people I’m sure will be interested in this. The more we can do, the better.

  • #68897
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez – I don’t think your Spanish buyer at La Reserva will be ‘happy’ if the water & electricity gets shut down. As far as I understand this was connected illegally & can be turned off at any time. Can you tell me how a buyer gets insurance on such a property also ❓ I would be very interested to learn how this can be done. Thank you.

  • #68909
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Hi Suzanne, The programme was good but highlighted little. Despite all the warnings buyers still come here with no idea at all. Unfortunately th issues are too deep and in some cases political for it to be explained in 1 email.

    Re the electricity and water – in fase 1 (where I look after some properites for owners) and fase 2 it is connected not on the builders supply but with the companies directly. Insurance companies will cover and dont ask for an LFO. Until recently any bank was giving a mortgage.

    The spanish are of the opinion things will be ok, its totally political and 90% will be legalized – innocent buyers will not suffer. That of course remains to be seen.

    Hi Shakeel – not sure about egiptian lad – dont think he could handle me!

    Have a good evening

  • #68911
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We are all well aware of how the issues have now turned ‘political and deep’ but let’s remember we are dealing with too many fraudsters & liars whatever else they’d like to call themselves and that’s the problem top & bottom of it.

    Connections to water & electric at La Reserva have still been illegally obtained – obviously no problem for the developer.

  • #68914
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dorothy & I have been enquiring about this situation elsewhere. This was the reply we had from the administrator.

    I have done a bit of research on this topic. Apparently it is in fact, impossible to have utilities connected without the LFO granted. That is, impossible to obtain a contract with a company such as Sevillana Endesa (electricity) or others.

    As we all know, there are in fact properties that have connections, so.. How do they do it?

    Many developers have urged and rushed individuals to ‘close’ on their purchase, and when the new owners demanded (understandably so) to have electricity and water FIRST, some developers rather than wait, have extended their own contracts to include those properties of the individuals.

    In other words, whether it is a show flat, a proposed show flat, or even a non-related property that the developer actually has a LFO for, they have extended the utility connection on to the properties of the purchasers.

    It is extremely important to note that this is NOT a proper utilities connection, and in theory, the developer could (at any given time) shut off the connection leaving the purchaser in the dark (quite literally).

    Still yet, there are some exceptions to this rule. In these cases in which the purchasers / owners actually have proper water & electricity connections directly with the utilities company, it is probably due to some sort of “arrangement” between the developer and the company.

    You can draw your own conclusion on the last paragraph!! 🙄

  • #68915
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thank you Claire.

    Once again this is fraud & dirty deals, which some will like to complicate by dressing it up as a ‘deep political issue’ 👿 👿 👿

  • #68918
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    The only way I can think the developers have got around the LFO is by administrative silence. There are numerous developments in the same situation no LFO but proper connections with electricity and water, gas , paying IBI, basura and community charges!

    I know because I live in one!!!

  • #68922
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Administrative Silence is null & void on an illegal build. Community charges – a separate issue.

  • #68923
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Administrative silence is now null and void – it was perfectly acceptable until recently. Thats why people got their services connected. Now it is impossible. Thats all I was stating.

    I do not agree with the sitaution any more than you do – the sooner the government gets off its backside and decides which developments to legalize and allow, the better for all of us.

  • #68926
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi

    Administrative silence is now null and void – it was perfectly acceptable until recently.

    So how does it work with developments like Los Patios (completed at least 5 – 6 years ago) was legal through admin silence and my understanding is that they now have had their building licence revoked.

    It would appear to me that an LFO by admin silence can be revisited by the Town Hall at any time. I would love to know what the time limit is on this as clearly it affects many hundreds of long standing (no pun) development up and down the CDS (and the rest of Spain).

    Regards

    Paul

  • #68928
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Because the issue is now in the public eye and has been bought to general attention. The spanish are great at ignoring laws – its when someone makes a denouncia that they actually do anything or have to be seen to doing anything.

    One particular development Senorio de Aloha in Nueva Andalucia recently had its WHOLE licenses revoked by court (alongside 6 others) and are now totally unsaleable. They have a demolition order on them as well.

    Unforutanley its not only Marbella this is happening.

    However in Torre del Mar, the local council has set their new PGOU and are getting on with deciding which developments can proceed and which are no longer allowed to build. Hopefully this will happen here

  • #68929
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I just hope that the end result in all of this is that it will be the corrupt gov. officials and developers that get punished (financially and otherwise) and not the purchasers.

    Awarding medals is not the right way to show there is a ‘new mood in the air’ against corruption.

  • #68931
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’ve been on to Trevor McDonald’s ‘Tonight’ programme about the wretched medals. There may be a follow-up programme – let’s hope so 😉
    Now looking down some more avenues in the meantime ❗
    Suzanne x

  • #68932
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Have any of the developments built in the last 5-6 years in the Elviria region of Marbella got a legitimate LFO? By that I mean not an admin. silence one.

  • #68933
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Inez

    So do you know of a time limit for this I believe it’s 7 years here in the UK (that is 7 years after it’s built no one can do anything.)

    Seems to me that if you should not buy without an LFO, the LFO needs to be a real one, i.e. not via admin silence. This therefore effects many hundreds if not thousands of developments. This puts the owners of these properties with mortgages (and the banks) in a very tricky position and suggests the water, electricity and phone companies are supplying illegally.

    The lawyers who advised these owners also gave wrong advice and are responsible for that. By that I mean any lawyer who advised an owner to purchase a property without a full LFO has it fact exposed the owner to this, as they should have check the property against the PGOU. Depending on the time limit for this this could be advice given as long as seven years ago.

    Have any of the developments built in the last 5-6 years in the Elviria region of Marbella got a legitimate LFO? By that I mean not an admin. silence one.

    My understand is NO including Las Terrazas and Green Life which are older than that

    But that is also true of most of the communities along that coast

    Regards

    Paul

  • #68934
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Suzanne,
    I have the contact details of a prominent reporter who contacted me from the BBC News 24 & Evening Standard, and reported about our situation/development in both. They have excellent coverage(News 24 worldwide.!)

  • #68935
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    That’s good Claire. Would you mind sending me a PM with details & I/we can get onto them.

  • #68945
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Hi Paul – I dont know if there is a time limit, I believe that if its by admin silence that just does! I guess like rights of way after a period of time ensures it stays there but if I recall recently a demolition order towards Cadiz was carried out on a totally illegal individual property although it had been there for donkeys years.

    I think its compounded as the plots of land in Elviria had persmission to build. Here in Spain a plot will be allocated a percentage of the total plot for a build. Then there are specifications such as how high it can go, what it can be used for and so on. In Elviria the buildings in the main should have been townhouse and villas not apartments, so although the builders were forced to stick to the same percentage, the fact they build apartments is what is the dispute.

    Now unless you have cash, you cannot buy a property without an LFO. From mid november the valuers themselves were asking us for them – and originals and if a property valued is in Marbella a note is put onto the valuation stating to check the LFO.

    Its easy to balme the lawyers and many are corrupt but if they did their due dilligence they may have been provided with licenses that on checking exist in the town hall and notaries, so its immpossible to really chek. After all anyone who has completed in the developments have escrituras which are legally given.

    I have heard as well in some developers cases where they bought the land and the ‘license’ from the original rogue landowner who bought the license, these developers have then built, borrowed money etc on the back of somehting thier own in house lawyers would have checked. If it seems real then you would go ahead wouldnt you!

    I have even seen very good forged licenses and bank guarantees!

  • #68946
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Suzanne- I have a load of reporters emails, shall I send them to you for a blanket email? We post numerous newsletters on our website about this and when I write one I always send it to them as well.

  • #68950
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hello Inez, Just had a look at your website which states:

    ‘All of our properties are available to purchases “before auction” at auction” or after auction” and all properties are fully licenced,legally built with full planning permission and no debts registered against them’.

    On 5 Feb you wrote:
    …’I know Reserva very well, we resold (mainly to the Spainsh) many units there from distressed sellers. When the Malaya case went pearshaped we had around 7 sales fall through in Reserva over teh summer as the banks all pulled away from it. We have one going though where the buyer is Spanish, is happy with the system and of course is not relying on top valuations to finance the whole deal! He has cash!’

    ❓ ❓ ❓

  • #68951
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Inez

    Its easy to blame the lawyers

    I wasn’t really, I was playing devils advocate.

    Thanks for your input

    Regards

    Paul

  • #68952
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paul wrote: “The lawyers who advised these owners also gave wrong advice and are responsible for that. By that I mean any lawyer who advised an owner to purchase a property without a full LFO has in fact exposed the owner to this”(a very tricky position)

    Oh Paul – just when I thought you were finally coming round,
    ….you went and spoilt it with your “I was playing devils advocate”.

    Just when I thought I had myself a convert 😉
    Are you in Spain yet?

  • #68953
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @inez wrote:

    Administrative silence is now null and void – it was perfectly acceptable until recently. Thats why people got their services connected. Now it is impossible. Thats all I was stating.

    I do not agree with the sitaution any more than you do – the sooner the government gets off its backside and decides which developments to legalize and allow, the better for all of us.

    Inez, Suzanne didn’t post this.

    She said that ASR is null and void for illegal builds. Which is true. What you are saying is something different and innacurate.

    ASR is not null and void and works fine providing there are no illegalities such as revoked Building License’s in which case it doesn’t apply as it is blatant.

  • #68954
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Hi Suzanne – all is true – we ask owners to provide the LFO on all the properties we offer. If you note we do not offer La Reserva anymore and the last one we managed to sell was back in september. Spanish buyer kept an option until he sold his own property. He is well aware of the situation re the LFO and still wishes to proceed.

    We have taken several units off our website due to no LFO’s including las terrazas de Banus – we also sold one earlier this year but now another cannot be sold as no license!

    We are totally open in what we do and have been preaching about the stagnating market and the crash to come for over 4 years.

    I myself have never sold off plan or made the fortunes others did. Instead I set up am management and rental company, which was doing really well until around 5 years ago. Thats when I noticed the problems of oversupply etc etc etc.

    We have had to adapt as the market has changed and we update ourselves as we see we have to.

  • #68955
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    THANK YOU Drakan,
    I can now stop banging my head against a brick wall 🙄

  • #68956
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    😉

  • #68957
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oh Paul – just when I thought you were finally coming round,
    ….you went and spoilt it with your “I was playing devils advocate”.

    😆

    Clearly Charlie we could not blame a lawyer doing his or her job 8 years ago with a system like this.

    I had you going there for a minute though 😆

    My regards as always Charlie

    Paul

  • #68958
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Thanks Drakan – I stand corrected.

    Unfortunately the banks still refuse to lend without an LFO (my experience in any case) which means the majority of buyers will not and cannot buy a property.

  • #68959
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    I am not your brick wall – I did not sell you your property or have any hand in it.

    I wasnt your legal advisor either.

    I thought you wanted help with this, sorry for getting it wrong!

  • #68962
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez – you have taken unnecessary offence. It’s an English expression which merely means you feel like you have not been understood correctly. No, you did not sell me the apt., or give me legal advice – never said you did ❗

    I have commented on your comments, & sometimes it’s better to say something is your opinion rather than a fact.

    Shame we’ve fallen out – I’m sure if I came to to see you next time I’m over we would have got on like a house on fire ❗ Another English expression.

  • #68964
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @inez wrote:

    Thanks Drakan – I stand corrected.

    Unfortunately the banks still refuse to lend without an LFO (my experience in any case) which means the majority of buyers will not and cannot buy a property.

    Yes, this is true. Banks refuse to lend if there is no LFO. Another reason more to request it before completion.

    However the developer’s bank, the one that granted the developer the mortgage to build, normally lend you money even if there is no LFO. But only them Inez. 😉

  • #68968
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Hi Suzanne, I dont want to fall out with you or anyone. Sorry if I took it the wrong way, had a rather stressful day all in all!

    Would rather add whatever I can to help the situation, all I can do is give you information from this end – and from the insider feel from an agency.

    No offence taken and would love to meet up with you next time you are over.

    Draken, yes the developers mortgage is always available unfortunately all the investors (the only buyers actually out there now) want 100% financing so the DM isnt high enough!!!

    Hey ho anotherday in paradise nearly over. 😀

  • #68973
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hola Inez. Thank you, I’m glad we’re friends. I’m certainly learning more everyday on this Forum. Might see you in Marbella 😉

  • #68974
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    No worries – me too. I had better get off this forum and cook – kids are shouting for their food (lazy sods!)

    Take it easy and see you soon

  • #68978
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Draken

    Maybe it is me but i still don’t understand.

    First of all ASR uses to work, this was based on the assumption that the promoter had a BL and had built the properties in accordance with that BL.

    The properties can be occupied etc etc etc, and the Lawyer gives the go ahead to complete.

    In this case, one assumes that eventually (how long can they wait?) the Town Hall gets round to inspecting the development and issues a proper LFO.

    Next

    If in the case of above the developer has not built in line with their BL the Town Hall demands they put it right and then issues (after inspection) a proper LFO.

    If they don’t put it right who is to blame?

    The developer clearly
    The Lawyer for not insisting that a proper LFO is in place?
    The owner see above?

    Next

    If the developer is given a BL (and wrongdoing can not be proven in a court of law) for apartments when originally all that could be build was Town Houses.

    The developer applies for an LFO and after six years still has not got a proper LFO but claims one via ASR. Everyone has moved in, many have been resold etc etc etc.

    The Town Hall then says “Regardless of the BL (which we granted) you should have built Town Houses, we now revoke the BL, who is to blame?

    The developer? (remember nothing can be proved)
    The Lawyer for not spotting that the plan says one thing and the BL says another, and not insisting on a proper LFO?
    The owner see above?
    The Town Hall?

    I know you’ve said this is all political and I very much agree as the above does seem to be a bit of a mess for everyone.

    Your thoughts?

    Regards

    Paul

  • #68979
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paul

    The developer applies for an LFO and after six years still has not got a proper LFO but claims one via ASR. Everyone has moved in, many have been resold etc etc etc.

    Inez

    Now unless you have cash, you cannot buy a property without an LFO. From mid november the valuers themselves were asking us for them – and originals and if a property valued is in Marbella a note is put onto the valuation stating to check the LFO.

    Paul, I understood it to be that unless you can get a cash buyer(who would probably want a sizable discount) you cannot sell without an LFO., however long that may take in coming. That only applies though if it is an illegal build and under review. If it’s not an illegal build then maybe an ASR rule could apply. The Government should issue strict rules on when/where/how the ASR comes into play. I await Drakans reply too.

  • #68983
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In the clarification of the detail of these facts can someone please confirm if this is purely in relation to a given area eg Marbella, Costa del Sol, Andalucia etc.
    I only know of the situation in Mazarron where there are thousands of houses which do not have a LFO or Habitation Certificate. These houses are being bought and sold and mortgages granted for their purchase. Some even have mains water and electricity throught an ‘arrangement’.
    Are all regions governed by the same property laws?

  • #68985
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I understood it to be that unless you can get a cash buyer(who would probably want a sizable discount) you cannot sell without an LFO.,

    Not so Claire, properties at Los Patios de Santa Maria Golf and Las Tarazzas de Santa Maria Golf do NOT have an LFO (only by ASR) and they where built many years ago. People have bought and sold these many times over the years and now Los Patios after what must be six years (we stayed there where they where just completed) has had it’s BL revoked. I also know it is still posiable to get (non promoter) mortgages from some banks for properties without an LFO in Los Jardines, Los Patios and Las Tarazzas.

    Hence my question.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #68986
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Paul,

    I was just trying to use the info that Inez posted to make some sense of it all. 😕 ❓

  • #68987
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Confusing isn’t it

  • #68988
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just a lot!! 😉

  • #68998
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Well just to add a little info here – no names mentioned. I was speaking to one of our contacts, a small agent based in the Malaga area. They have ‘sold’ a property in Los Patios (no LFO and I think pronounced as illegal) They had a valuer go around who wrote on the valuation ILLEGAL BUILD, so they could not use it. However another valuation has been instructed and so far so good!

    An obscure, new or small bank would really have not much idea as they rely on the valuers for correct information!!

    Up until end of octeber, you could still get a mortgage on a property that did not have an LFO, but from around mid november we noticed a change in the valuers attitudes and they were asking for actual copies of them.

    This seems to be relegated to th Marbella area as I have not experienced this for Estepona or Benahavis either – or Mijas so far.

    Our colleague based in Torre del Mar says the PGOU of 1986 (the legal one) has agreement from the government to extend by 40% so its just deciding which are legal and which developments have to stop. Apparently that law came in on 28th december.

    Trouble is because of the time they are taking to make any sort of decision it is totally confusing. We cannot get an actaul straight answer from any lawyer because in truth they themselves dont really know. There are too many interpretations.

    So we only touch anything with a license – I see no point even trying to sell soemthing as it falls down at the valuation stage.

    Unless the seller is totally desperate (and we have one in this situation) in which case once we have explained the options, they will have to accept offers at 40 to 50% of estimated bank valuation as the buyer will be speculating with his own money.

    Oh and to finish, my pal in Malaga said to me the general advice given out by themselves and other agents is to buy, complete and move is because the more people living in the complex gives strength to stop a demolition order!!!

    Empty buildings beware!!!!! 😯

  • #69000
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @inez wrote:

    .

    my pal in Malaga said to me the general advice given out by themselves and other agents is to buy, complete and move is because the more people living in the complex gives strength to stop a demolition order!!!

    Are you sure the advice is not really: “to buy, complete and move because …….. we will get all our lovely commission”?
    (And who cares whether your purchase is for something legal or not…)

  • #69002
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Charlie – Im sure it is!

  • #69003
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks for the honesty – just wanted to clarify that this was not serious advice for some purchasers in a dilemma as to whether to complete or not.
    Apologies for the cynicism – I caught it from Shakeel 😉

  • #69004
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    No worries – being in the business I get the true insider info from all walks of life, mortgage brokers, other agents (big and small) etc etc.

    Think I might have to change my name at some stage.

    Shakeels cycnisism he caught from me – is a good pal of mine.

    After living here from over 12 years and having learned from mistake after mistake, nothing suprises me any more 🙄

  • #69029
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    Hi Draken

    Maybe it is me but i still don’t understand.

    First of all ASR uses to work, this was based on the assumption that the promoter had a BL and had built the properties in accordance with that BL.

    The properties can be occupied etc etc etc, and the Lawyer gives the go ahead to complete.

    In this case, one assumes that eventually (how long can they wait?) the Town Hall gets round to inspecting the development and issues a proper LFO.

    Hi Paul,

    No this is a wrong assumption. The LFO is not required as it has been already granted by AS. The AS is the LFO.

    @p800aul wrote:

    Next

    If in the case of above the developer has not built in line with their BL the Town Hall demands they put it right and then issues (after inspection) a proper LFO.

    If they don’t put it right who is to blame?

    The developer clearly
    The Lawyer for not insisting that a proper LFO is in place?
    The owner see above?

    The developer is to blame for they have not followed the BL issued by the Town Hall.
    The lawyer has to insist there is a LFO normally but not always. I have completed many times without LFO. There is no general rule it takes a case-by-case study. Although in general terms one should not complete without it.

    i.e. development is not granted LFO because they have no ramp for handicapped. In this case I tell my client to complete instead of waiting 6 months if they are renting.

    i.e. development is not granted a LFO because the BL has been revoked, or the BL is for detached villas and they have built 3 storey high or in a green area or…I tell my client not to complete until there is a LFO in place. Obviously I ignore the ASR in these cases.

    @p800aul wrote:

    Next

    If the developer is given a BL (and wrongdoing can not be proven in a court of law) for apartments when originally all that could be build was Town Houses.

    The developer applies for an LFO and after six years still has not got a proper LFO but claims one via ASR. Everyone has moved in, many have been resold etc etc etc.

    The Town Hall then says “Regardless of the BL (which we granted) you should have built Town Houses, we now revoke the BL, who is to blame?

    The developer? (remember nothing can be proved)
    The Lawyer for not spotting that the plan says one thing and the BL says another, and not insisting on a proper LFO?
    The owner see above?
    The Town Hall?

    The developer or you and your lawyer are to blame for buying and moving in. The Town Hall always said it was illegal and regardless of this you went ahead and completed. However this case is tricky and may be argued both ways. I can blame either the purchaser or the developer depending on whom is hiring me as a lawyer.

    @p800aul wrote:

    I know you’ve said this is all political and I very much agree as the above does seem to be a bit of a mess for everyone.

    Your thoughts?

    Regards

    Paul

    That’s just my own personal opinion. What has happened in Marbella is happening right now in 200 coastal cities along Spain. Surprisingly Marbella has taken the hit for a problem which is wide spread. However, let’s not panick please, very few dwellings if at all will be demolished. It’ll take a few years to sort out the mess, but it will be sorted out.

    The root of the problem are the Town Halls and how they are financed in Spain, not the developers, nor the REA nor the lawyers, some are only taking –unfair- advantage of a devious system.

    The Town Halls major asset is land. They self-finance themselves in large part and as they are empowered to reclassify the municipal land and building parameters then it’s easy to see where all the corruption stems from: from political abuses of power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  • #69031
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Draken

    Thank you

    I understand most of it (just) apart from the last bit where I’m still confused:

    If the developer is given a BL (and wrongdoing can not be proven in a court of law) for apartments when originally all that could be build was Town Houses.

    The developer applies for an LFO and after six years still has not got a proper LFO but claims one via ASR. Everyone has moved in, many have been resold etc etc etc.

    The Town Hall then says “Regardless of the BL (which we granted) you should have built Town Houses, we now revoke the BL, who is to blame?

    The developer? (remember nothing can be proved)
    The Lawyer for not spotting that the plan says one thing and the BL says another, and not insisting on a proper LFO?
    The owner see above?
    The Town Hall?

    The developer or you and your lawyer are to blame for buying and moving in. The Town Hall always said it was illegal and regardless of this you went ahead and completed. However this case is tricky and may be argued both ways. I can blame either the purchaser or the developer depending on whom is hiring me as a lawyer

    I would have though the Town Hall was to blame as they had reclassified (wrongly) the land which give permission to build apartment rather than Town Houses. How could anyone possiably check against such wrongdoing the PGOU says town houses the Town Hall changes this to apartments. The Deveoper builds the apartments in line with his BL the six years later the Town Hall says “sorry big mistake we’re revocking your BL”.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #69035
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s an interesting conundrum. As I said, it can be argued both ways. In any case the Town Hall knows they are largely to blame (or at least the prior corporation-majors) along with the developer and it’s not like they are going to demolish the dwellings in this case you bring forth.

    It’s difficult to give a legal opinion on something which is of a political nature really. Once the new P.G.O.U. is approved most if not all these issues will be sorted out and illegal properties will be turned into legal. The other option is to demolish hundreds of houses which no politician is ready to undertake no matter what the judges rule. Would you ?

    Ironically although the non-residents have been the ones who have suffered all this (the innocent party of good faith) it will actually be the Town Hall itself –ironically- who will be compensated by the developers for all the “illegalities” with assets, money and land.

    The bottomline is that it is highly unlikely they’ll demolish houses in Marbella area because it goes against everybody’s interests and Spain cannot afford to make it on the UK’s front page headlines with bold letters saying “500 houses demolished in Marbella area. Brits panick and flea Spain !”. This will just not happen.

  • #69036
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Ah but it already has happened. There is a sad lack of people wanting to buy and the problem has hits the front pages uk , ireland and elswhere as well as the TV.

    The conundrum I find is a development with BL, no LFO but admin silence. One cannot get a mortgage on this type pf property and cannot therefore buy or sell.

    The lack of LFO may be because a small thing has to be changed ie wheelchair ramps etc, but the banks are still refusing to lend without an LFO.

    Where does that leave someone unable to pay their mortgage or for other reasons has to sell??

  • #69038
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    To the best of my knowledge Inez no houses have been demolished in Marbella, so it hasn’t happened yet. Demolished houses in Marbella would deliver a final blow to Spain. Although CDS is almost dead Costa Blanca and other areas are still washed away with sales of property although there is a down trend now.

    Another different matter is that the market peaked off in 2003-2004 and sales have diminished throughout Spain, specially on the CDS due to Malaya case of course.

    Malaya or no Malaya the market had already peaked off and sales have gone down in Spain, USA, Australia etc…the hike in gasoline, the hike in interest rates etc… all this contribute to cool-off the real estate market the World over.

  • #69039
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Drakan

    Thank you

    Regards

    Paul

  • #69040
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Hi Draken, I know nothing has been demolished in Marbella and I too believe there will not be any only the odd commercial building!

    Its just that although there was no problem certainly until october with regards to obtaining a mortgage with no LFO, now its virtually impossible.

    Until its all sorted out this leaves the innocents having to stay put, cant sell or buy in all these urbs.

    Have you seen the map from the town hall highlighting all the ‘illegal’ developments? I counted 969 developments on it!

  • #69042
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez,
    Count again it should be 1000.

  • #69043
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Hay listen, I gave up after seeing the mass of colours on the map! I think each spot only took 3 munbers!

    Ill count it again tonoght to help me off to sleep……. 😕

  • #69052
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If you cant count the sheep as there is no land left for grazing after the illegal builds. The only cure for insomnia is exactly what you are doing.
    Until you decide to open an office in Wales.

  • #69080
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If I may go back to these ‘Medals’, I’m no politician but I think the following may be some good news; from Typically Spanish

    Quote:
    Benalmádena local government loses its absolute majority
    Wed, 07 Feb 2007, 21:50

    A councillor with the governing team at Benalmádena Town Hall has announced her resignation from the party. It means that the Grupo Independiente de Benalmádena, led by Mayor Enrique Bolín, has lost its absolute majority for the remainder of the legislation.

    Carmen Vargas now joins the Grupo Mixto. She said she has been considering the move for some years, due to discrepancies with G.I.B.’s internal procedures. She accused Bolín of ignoring democratic processes and making unilateral decisions.
    © typicallyspanish.com

    Mayor Bolin awarded these ‘Medals’, so glad to see he’s going down the ladder rather than up. 😉

  • #73069
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Court hears appeal to archive investigation against ex Benalmádena Mayor
    Jun 19, 2007

    ‘Enrique Bolín, who was voted out at the end of May, was under investigation for possible planning crimes

    The provincial court in Málaga is on Tuesday studying whether a case which was investigating the ex independent Mayor of Benalmádena, Enrique Bolín, for possible planning crimes should be reopened.

    The Torremolinos judge who carried out the original investigation decided in January to provisionally archive the case, ruling that he could find no evidence of a crime in the evidence submitted. EFE reports it related to construction of a 4 star hotel in the urbanisation La Perla under an agreement signed between Benalmádena Town Hall and the company Empresarios Dentales in October 2000. The site was allegedly unsuitable under the local development plan in force at the time. The appeal from the un-named complainant comes on the grounds that further evidence is still pending and the instruction of the case is therefore not complete.

    Enrique Bolín was voted out as Mayor in the poll at the end of May, with a three-way pact between PSOE, Izquierda Unida and the local independent party, MpB, giving the Mayor’s office to the Socialist candidate, Javier Carnero.’

    © Copyright 2007 by typicallyspanish.com

    Bolin is the man who awarded the ‘medal of the City’ to Cristóbal Peñarroya (La Reserva Developer) last February, whilst he was out on bail & implicated in Malaya Case. Let’s hope the case is re-opened.

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