Mark re " Paradise Lost "thread.

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This topic contains 49 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 7 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #55107
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark,

    Is this the type of c*** you want on SPI? It’s not surprising so few people are coming to the site these days that have/had informative input in the past. IMO SPI is losing credibility allowing the likes of Tree/ Mary Hinge/ Alanethornton posting. Debate can be stimulating but not what has been posted lately. Perhaps you could tell us if these people are one and the same. Do you think they add value to the forum?

  • #93406
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    the answer would be yes, we do bring value.
    its clear you and your friends that cause the conflict here, because you cannot accept the truth of your failings. you clearly want to blame everybody, and anybody else for the problems in spain.
    20 years ago this was no more a problem in spain as it was it the uk.
    what changed then in the last 20 years?
    thats quite easy to answer.
    the brits turned up in spain, wanting a better life. (thats no problem)
    but it gave the opportunity for corruption.
    in most cases if the brits had acted with a little more care maybe there would not be so many problems. in some cases they paid deposits etc. and went back to the uk. and waited for a call to say the property was ready/or built, leaving a large gap of time for disaster to happen, without even checking. (thats our way for us brits as we are a trusting nation)
    then remember a large % of estate agents/ building companies, etc then in spain just happen to be english who where quite happy to rip there fellow country men/women off. so please dont blame some individuals for stating what you cannot see as being fact. its disrespectful to swear at them and ridicule when quite clearly you do not have a full understanding of what has gone on in spain, and why.
    there was a post that was very interesting recently, as to what % are satisfied /to not satisfied. perhaps if we knew that it maybe a different picture! so stop being so angry and look for solutions.
    tree and mary have given you some very salient points as to the problems, but sadly you choose to ignore them and point accusing fingers, almost to the point of blaming them for the problems. all they and I where trying to do was give our valid opinions, nothing else.

  • #93407
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Alan, people like Claire and others are original posters to this forum and have given lots of useful advice to new people based on their own experiences, and it’s necessary to stop others falling into the same type of traps.

    There probably are some half decent agents, lawyers and developers but they seem few and far between in Spain, but the loads of bad guys are ruining things for them, as well as the slow to react Spanish Gov’t.

    Sifting the good guys out is difficult.

    I do agree with Claire though that Mark used to be on top of his website forum posters! 😉

  • #93408
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @Claire wrote:

    Mark,

    Is this the type of c*** you want on SPI? It’s not surprising so few people are coming to the site these days that have/had informative input in the past. IMO SPI is losing credibility allowing the likes of Tree/ Mary Hinge/ Alanethornton posting. Debate can be stimulating but not what has been posted lately. Perhaps you could tell us if these people are one and the same. Do you think they add value to the forum?

    Claire, I agree. They are not worth getting into a debate about anything. (probably all the same person!) I think it we should collectively agree not to respond to their posts. Someone will though and thus every thread is killed. I like healthy differences of opinion but I don’t see the point of responding to nutters. This site used to be quoted by newspapers and the media, if they take a look now there won’t be much sense coming out.

  • #93409
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    the reason this site has gone down hill, is clearly because of you two and a few others.read some of your responses, then you will agree.
    you cannot handle the truth. or you cannot see the truth more to the point.
    so lets see if you and your mates now stop responding.

    by the way i’m still looking for a full english.

    the spanish way of life. oh what a laugh.

  • #93410
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    Mark,

    Is this the type of c*** you want on SPI? It’s not surprising so few people are coming to the site these days that have/had informative input in the past. IMO SPI is losing credibility allowing the likes of Tree/ Mary Hinge/ Alanethornton posting. Debate can be stimulating but not what has been posted lately. Perhaps you could tell us if these people are one and the same. Do you think they add value to the forum?

    So you’ve started a thread like this in the hope that it eventually lead to adding value to the forum. Debate can indeed be stimulating, unfortunately people keep posting crap like this.

    Face facts Claire, the forum for two years became a broken record. Give the record a nudge, hopefully someone will put a new record on.

  • #93411
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I agree with you Katy. It would be best if we ignored them but they will not ignore us 😆 They ruin EVERY thread by writing utter trash. I do believe we have just one idiot poster using different names. They know sweet fanny adams about me or you or anyone else who posts here. If they did they would have facts not fiction. For a start I’m not a loser I’m a victorious WINNER!!!
    Angie, you are right. I had hoped Mark would respond to this thread. He clearly does not seem to be interested that his once reputable forum is fast going down the pan because of Alanthornton &” co”…just what is intended.

  • #93412
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    For a start I’m not a loser I’m a victorious WINNER!!!

    Cringe.

  • #93413
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @Claire wrote:
    For a start I’m not a loser I’m a victorious WINNER!!!

    Cringe.

    🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

  • #93415
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @Claire wrote:

    I agree with you Katy. It would be best if we ignored them but they will not ignore us 😆 They ruin EVERY thread by writing utter trash. I do believe we have just one idiot poster using different names. They know sweet fanny adams about me or you or anyone else who posts here. If they did they would have facts not fiction. For a start I’m not a loser I’m a victorious WINNER!!! Angie, you are right. I had hoped Mark would respond to this thread. He clearly does not seem to be interested that his once reputable forum is fast going down the pan because of Alanthornton &” co”…just what is intended.

    Yes Claire, if they had built your block you would now be stuck with a property worth about 40% less than you paid, and not legal. (will be one day perhaps) 😆

  • #93416
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    That is precisely what Charlie & I were saying two weeks ago Katy, and why I consider myself VERY VERY lucky. In fact we celebrated our “lucky escape” over a glass or three of very nice Cretan wine!! We got all of our money back +++.( I’m not rubbing noses in, I’m just giving the V for victory sign to the trolls)

  • #93418
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Claire wrote:

    That is precisely what Charlie & I were saying two weeks ago Katy, and why I consider myself VERY VERY lucky. In fact we celebrated our “lucky escape” over a glass or three of very nice Cretan wine!! We got all of our money back +++.( I’m not rubbing noses in, I’m just giving the V for victory sign to the trolls)

    Oh god, it goes from bad to abysmal. If its not flossy and co. googling the words ‘credit crunch’ its embarrassingly bad stuff like this.

  • #93419
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    and the muppets keep rolling along.

    where’s my full english

  • #93420
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Claire

    I quite agree. Unless Mark gets rid of the idiot with many names, worthwhile posters with info’ that could save so many from harm, will not contribute for fear of being insulted by rubbish and lies, and who can blame them? It is ruining a once great site..

  • #93421
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Until Mark puts a stop to it, SPI is impotent.

  • #93422
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    i can feel the heat from here

  • #93423
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This is a quality forum that has a loyal following. There are some really great contributors, such as Claire, Katy et al, who’s comments are reasonable, informed and valid.

    I am a little worried that good people are leaving this forum, because of the likes of those individuals already mentioned in this thread. Why these people have such a strange ‘axe-to-grind’ is beyond me, unless their motive is to cause as much mayhem as possible ,and prevent potential buyers from finding out the truths of the Spanish Property market at this moment.

    I have been guilty of responding to one such odd person in another thread, but I guess the only way to deal with the problem is to freeze these characters out. Collectively we are much ‘bigger’ than them and I suggest we all now completely ignore their postings and their insults and freeze them out.

    I guess what I am trying to say is ‘Please don’t take umbrage and leave the forum because you feel insulted by those individuals who are clearly stressed and not at peace with the World’. 😉

  • #93426
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    quite agree, but they wont leave well alone

  • #93427
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Other discussion boards often offer the facility to set users whose views/approach etc annoy you to “ignore”. I have no idea how easy it is to provide that sort of filter, but it might be a more effective way to moderate the site than for Mark to attempt to referee actively.

    No comment as to how I might use such a filter!

    Carosfella

  • #93443
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I don’t think publicly trying to cajole Mark into banning any user is a good thing.

    It all sounds a little primary school to me and doesn’t help. The members who some claim to be disruptive are rather good at adding to a debate at times. There needs to be a balance and at present they seem to provide it.

    Rather than publicly ask for help, why not debate with these people, I have noticed that it is usually those who are calling for them to be banned who are acting in the most aggresive manner, it doesn’t help your cause.

    It’s an open forum, very lightly and well moderated by Mark, I personally hope it stays that way, and suggest certain forum users improve their debating skills.

  • #93444
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    very well put peter.
    its odd that my recent inputs get ignored, but i think they are very near to being correct.
    maybe some of these people who berate me are scared of the truth or are just happy to wallow in there own self pity. not a word regarding my last in depth input which sadly shows these peoples mentality.
    tree has made some valid points probably the nearest to the truth than most others comments, which in turn is ridiculed by them. then they go on about reading books and talking about south Africa. so who is ruining this site then.

  • #93446
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Peter what is the use of debating with someone who has multiple identities ❓

    I agree that there should be an ignore button then the troll can debate with himself and give himselves a pat on the back 😆

    This person doesn’t want to debate he wants to disrupt and take the focus off the real issues.

  • #93447
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    see what i mean peter.
    i made comments on the 16th july, but not one response, which means i was totally correct, or i would/could have been shot down. katy spends sadly most time on here and it leads the other sheep, so they can ruin what could be a great site. her replies are pathetic beyond belief acting like a little child that has had her sweets taken away. will she ever grow up from what i’ve read of her clearly no. she and her mates make no debate so there is no going forward. her latest is a book fetish, but what on earth is that doing here when we are supposed to be thinking spain.
    tree leaving is a sad day for this site, as he being spanish could contribute really well with another(spanish) view but oh no kick anybody that has some idea of how it is in spain.

  • #93448
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Firstly Alan I am not a referee. I was simply making an observation.

    Yes tree was an interesting new addition to the forum, he posted some very interesting facts. We are missing a Spaniards point of view here, they do seem, obviously because of their language advantage, to be able to access more official statistics, though it must be noted that Spanish statistics are more or less a considerable waste of time. Being either a few quarters out of date or displaying complete denial. Trees other problem was his “Spanish boy” mentality, too much reliance on references to computer game terminology, that worries me in an adult!

    Mary has been a very interesting poster and has some considerable history here, which is nice to see someone stick it out for more than just a few posts as is often sadly the case.

    You too Alan have made some decent and thoughtful observations, even though you have allowed yourself to rise to the bait and become embroiled in the odd spat or two, I shall be the first to admit I also did the same in my early days here and now know that you must first pass the test of fire with the more senior members.

    By the test of fire I do not mean capitulate or fail in your debate, I mean you must keep it civil and meaningful. They will try and divert your message but you must stay focused and forceful.

    They may try the intimidation tactics, one after the other will come back at you and you must remain resolute and curtious or you will lose the debate even with a good argument.

    They will also be quite rude and deflamatory, not a virtue in my opinion, but they will ensure you reciprocate and then you have lost.

    In my few post here I have enjoyed the debate, learned quite a lot about forum behaviour and to date, not found another forum so well suited to me.

    Try and look at the debate here as a very long term strategy, no need to change your opinion, no need to lash out and be agressive, just maintain your belief and resolve for as long as you think you are right.

    In time you will at worst be convinced otherwise, or your argument will win favour and supporters.

    Stay with it Alan and don’t let it get too personal, though from time to time it will as it has with me.

  • #93449
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Peter,
    thank you very much for that.
    makes me feel that i’m not on my own any more, and that there are others that want to listen to the real facts.
    yours alan

  • #93451
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Peter what planet are you on 😯 These throw away characters are all one person ❗ Tree is no more spanish than I am from Mars…it’s Frank the nutter. I am beginning to think I am foo***g crazy for even bothering to reply 🙄

  • #93453
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    mars. well thats the first thing you’ve said that makes sense.

    l m a o

    wheres my full english

  • #93454
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    oh and to let you know KATY,why you keep replying.

    because your a pathetic stupid warped little girl who has nothing better to do in your life like some of your pathetic friends.
    keep it up you cant beat me, and i enjoy the swearing and hostility. thank you so much.

  • #93457
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Oh dear 🙁

    have been away a couple of weeks to come back and find this is still going on:

    @alanrthornton, in his obvious frustration with life, wrote:

    …because your a pathetic stupid warped little girl who has nothing better to do in your life like some of your pathetic friends.

    😯

    Alan, have you ever tried defrosting/clearing out the fridge? It’s a great stress-reliever.
    It may just take your mind off things while you’re wondering if you’ll EVER get planning permission to build that house.

    “…i enjoy the swearing and hostility”
    We know, dear.
    Try the fridge…….

  • #93459
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    welcome back Charlie

    some things do not change do they ?

    Richard

  • #93460
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Charlie

    hope you’ve got a troll gun with you!

  • #93462
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Charlie,

    Great to have you back.

    (Like the bit about the fridge……. 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 )

  • #93465
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    “keep it up you cant beat me, and i enjoy the swearing and hostility. thank you so much.”

    Once you became a slumdog, you will aways be a slumdog. Moving to Salobrena will not improve your quality as a low-class.

  • #93466
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    and i wont have to put up with crap like you

  • #93467
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    alanthornton:

    I’ve just read your post of the 16th July & see that you are part of the group that blames the victims of fraud & corruption for the problems they have suffered.

    Some buyers from the Uk have behaved in a stupid manor & some have just been naive, neither of which is a crime. Being stupid or naive does not justify being ripped off, which you seem to think is OK.

    Far more buyers, however, did everything they could correctly. They instructed lawyers, they used ‘reputable’ companies, they made sure they got a bank guarantee, & then, they discovered that their development was illegal, hadn’t been built, WON’T be built, that the deposits have gone (see Almanzora Country Club & Trampolin Hills), & that IF there is a genuine BG it won’t be paid because the Spanish banks are refusing to pay these as the developers owe too much money. This, is of couse illegal under Spanish law, that’s why you have a BG, to protect the buyer against the developer getting into trouble, but the banks want the money.

    There are many, many people who have bought in Spain & are very happy, I’m one of them. But I know, I was lucky, & there is no reason why, in a modern european state, luck should play a part in buying a new property.

    There are all the laws protecting buyers in Spain that anyone could want, but they are not being enforced. This needs to change.

    That is the problem, & until you & others accept that, the property market in Spain is going to continue to have problems.

  • #93471
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The perfect analysis of the situation Rob. How refreshing.

    Like Katy, you sit on the ‘other side of the fence’ in as much as you have not been caught up in Spain’s shenanigans but you obviously clearly see the picture as it is.

    Clear your fridge out often? 😉

  • #93473
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @charlie wrote:

    Oh dear 🙁

    have been away a couple of weeks to come back and find this is still going on:.

    Oh dear indeed to find all of this still going on, lots of talk about this once great forum and people just unbelievably descending into taking lumps out of each other.

    I have been scanning up and down the threads to see what’s new, what’s the latest debate or hot issue, and oh dear indeed, talk of banning people (I get that, I really do, but it does take two to tango and have an argument) yet I think some things should perhaps be just let pass by without comment really. Just simply no comment.

    I, like Peter Good, haven’t come across a better site or forum than this, I don’t contribute anywhere else, I really do listen and learn from this site and I sit somewhere else in relation to the fence than most others, there is more than two sides of the fence if that is not an whateverism to say. Some people may think I should be buried under the fence with one of the posts sticking into my darkened heart!

    So, at the risk of boring everyone to death, I might start up a whole fresh thread all of my own, not many of mine seem to have taken off, lets have another go shall we…?

    See if we can’t get everyone having their view, without taking lumps out of each other, and possibly maybe look forward a little?

    This really has been a tough couple of hours going all over these last several threads, having been away maybe I can help, and maybe Rob and a few others who haven’t seemed to post for awhile might pop back in and contribute also, in fact everyone contribute to the subject matter and lets see if we can’t stick to the thread and help someone out there.

    Cheers

  • #93489
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    rob6578

    smack on as usual. Good post telling it as it is.

  • #93503
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’d love to spend all day moderating this forum but I can’t afford to. There is no money in it, so I basically host it as a public service. As a result this forum of adults discussing property in Spain has to moderate itself, perhaps more than you might like. But by and large I think it does a fairly good job of it. Not always perfect, but I think some recent comments about how it has all gone to the dogs are exaggerated. Some threads go off the rails, but look back through the forum and you will see they are a small minority. The rest contain nothing but good quality information and advice related to property in Spain.

    I have to say it always amazes me how upset people get about comments made in an anonymous forum. If you don’t like what some people say, just ignore them. They are not people who matter in your life. If there are some people who are disruptive just for the sake of it, they soon give it up if other people just ignore them.

    I get the feeling that some contributors here are hostile to anyone with something good to say about Spain. Personally, I am interested in a balance of opinion. I resist calls to silence so-and-so just because he or she has a different opinion.

    Rudeness is another matter. As the moderator I will make more of an effort to spot and delete rude posts (not edit, just delete, which wastes less of my time). Recently some people have completely undermined their arguments by resorting to insults. It’s no good saying “but they started it”; that didn’t even work in the play ground, if you remember.

    As moderator I can see who is who. It seems that general paranoia has crept in regards one former contributor, now permanently banned. Claims that he is back as so-and-so are totally mistaken (though he did try to register again the other day).

    Now, looking to the future there will be some changes here. I’m not going to spend any more time moderating, but I will be more aggressive about deleting posts that I don’t think add value to the forum. The step outside section will be taken down, and rude or insulting posts will be deleted entirely in future, and their authors banned permanently, no discussion. You will also notice some design changes, and as I clean up the database you may be asked to confirm your username and password at some point.

    Finally, I encourage anyone who likes their forums more lowbrow and tabloid to go somewhere else (you will be spoilt for choice). I really don’t mind how few contributors there are, nor if it gets very quiet in here, so long as when something is written, it’s good stuff.

  • #93506
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    thank you MARK although its about time look forward to some POSITVE POSTS IN FUTURE. all the best
    alan

  • #93509
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Positive is fine, Alan, but many of your posts have been rude. If I can find the time I’ll have to delete them. In this forum you only get one warning, if you are lucky.

    Mark

  • #93510
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Let me make another thing clear. Some people argue that stupidity is the main cause of misfortune for some/many/all of those who have run into problems buying property in Spain (the brain on the plane argument). I may not share that opinion, but if it is properly and politely argued I’m not going to censor it. Sometimes it is the ‘ victims’ who lower the debate by their reaction to anyone who dares suggest that some people are responsible for their own misfortune (which, in some cases, is true).

    Mark

  • #93514
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark, well said.

    As the moderator of another forum (busier than but totally unrelated to this) I appreciate just how thankless a task it is. Whatever actions you do or do not take will be seen as wrong in some peoples eyes. Bottom line as far as I am concerned is that you have the balance about right.

    Like you I never cease to be amazed just how wound up people get about anonymous posts on a public forum. If you don´t like what someone is posting simply ignore him/her. In the end they´ll get bored and move on.

    I value much of the information I have picked up on here over the months. You do provide a valuable resource. Keep up the good work!

  • #93521
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    thank you MARK well understood, even if i’m not frank, but beiing goaded pushes the anger levels up, but it was as always only a general guide,

  • #93526
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As long as insults using words such as ‘morons’, ‘idiots’, accusing posters of being ‘pathetic little girls’ and telling people to ‘shut up’ are ruled out, we can continue debate like adults.
    The forum has recently been reduced to a level I’ve not seen in all the years I’ve been a member and I hope now we can return to adult debate.
    Surely one can post in a mature way without resorting to such childish name-calling.

    Personally, I combat rudeness with a little humour as it doesn’t warrant an emotional response. Blatant rudeness has no place here, so well said Mark. Hopefully now we can get back on track.

  • #93531
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    great!

    now that everyone has kissed and made up things can return to normal!

  • #93533
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    great!

    now that everyone has kissed and made up things can return to normal!

    Can we just shake hands instead, we don’t want people suing Mark for contracting Swine-Flu now do we fuengi 😉

  • #93534
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    now that everyone has kissed and made up…..

    Don’t push it Fuengi! 😆

    Just a little mature civility from now on will do fine…..

    A little bit of handbag-bashing now and then never harms debate as long as it is done without stooping to rudeness.

  • #93535
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    ha your words say no, but your emoticons say yes…

    now we can all get back to properties!

    handbags at dawn only as a last resort

  • #93536
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    handbags at dawn only as a last resort

    o….kay 🙁

    Mine’s back in the wardrobe.

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