Los Lagos de Santa Maria Golf.. LOST OUR CASE @ Marbella

LoadingFavourite

This topic contains 56 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 10 years, 1 month ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #52254
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi,
    I am new here but have read much of your comments regarding Los Lagos, Bank Guarantees etc etc.

    We have attempted to have our deposit returned by suing the developers at Los Lagos for breach of contract, and to claim compensation.

    Our court case was heard after the earlier Preliminary Pre-hearing, on 6th June 2006. We have waited until early September ( why such a long delay ? ) to hear that we have lost our case and the developers had not been in ” breach of contract ” by not completing on time. ( even allowing the 3 months for the second completion date in December 2004 ).

    This has cost a lot of money in legal fees by our lawyers, who by the way did not get our Bank Guarantee. They would normally have charged 10% of the property valuation , ie. 30,000 euros, but as we pointed out their default, they have actioned the claim for only 3,000 euros.

    I wonder whether we should really have paid anything !!

    Our situation now, with the development being classed as ” illegal ” is to go to the higher courts of Malaga on appeal.

    At the time of writing we are waiting for our Puerto Banus lawyers to come up with a costing for this.

    We are likely to loose a whole shedfull of money if the appeal is lost and although the purchase contract states 50% of the deposit will be lost for non – completion of the contract, we feel that this could well be a total write off.

    We are considering changing lawyers but the fees, and potential costs if we loose may be a big detterent, the pot is not bottomless.

    I understand that a Marbella law firm ( I know which one ) is currently acting for a group of some 20+ purchasers and their court action was to follow after ours. Our lawyers said we should get in first !

    If anyone knows of this group or is in this group I would like to know the result of their claim or the current position of their court action.

    It is possible that our lost battle may be used as a precident for the follow on claims. I hope not !

    If you are thinking of going to court or completing the purchase, I would suggest that you do not as the illegal status of the site will not allow the developers to connect electricty and water etc. which I understand is being supplied through the builders site connection, to be shortly disconnected.

    The Town Hall actions will make this site a long protracted problem for us all.

    I will put in a post when further event occur

    Best of luck !
    Dave D 👿 👿

  • #65826
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi David,
    I am so sorry that you lost your case against the developers. When you consider the number of people they have misled/ conned/let down…whatever,( screwed is the word I really want to use!) it makes me realise that we will never win in Spain. I don’t understand it. How bad does it have to get before we get justice?

  • #65828
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    It just gets worst doesn’t it, seems the spanish idea of justice and democracy is similar to a third world African dictatorship.

  • #65830
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Once again a lawyer has failed to ensure that the client has been given a bank guarantee. It is my understanding that there is a Spanish law requiring the developer to provide such a guarantee. It is also my understanding that a lawyer should ensure that all the legal requirements of the purchase contract are in place and should act in the best interest of their clients.

    In some cases Spanish lawyers, for whatever reason, are failing to ensure that the developer complies with this law. (Nor reporting non-compliance to the relevant authorities) My question is: Is this law, article 1 of Law 57/68, valid or not? I think that to clarify matters the legislation should be referred to the European Court of Justice. It may be advisable for people finding themselves in this situation to contact their Euro MP to bring this matter to the attention of the relevant authorities.

    Jon

  • #65831
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    There should be a way forward on these matters its obviously “not on” maybe everyone involved should contact their MP and their MEP. Everyone writing to the British Ambassador in Madrid could make an impact if the volume was high. All the people caught up in these rip offs are blameless and as a foreigner cannot expect justice in the spanish system.

  • #65836
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I have received several PM’s with pointers and advice and appreciate both these and the public responses.
    Thanks all.

  • #65838
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi David,

    I am sorry to hear about your problems.

    I am a bit confused. If the completion date was December 2004, and the property is not complete, then how can the court conclude that the developer is not in breech of contract?

  • #65839
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes so am i…..

  • #65840
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Not half as confused as we are in having to go through this.

    Apparently the Spanish Marbella Judge did not consider that the completion date clause in the contract was sufficient reason to run a breach of contract case.
    I do not understand why a term of the contract is not enforceable.
    Spanish vs English law interpretation. ??

    As there is no reversing the judge’s decision , the next step is the appeals court in Malaga.

  • #65845
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    NO JUSTICE! 😈 It’s all a waste of time, Waste of money…IT STINKS! 😈 😈 😈

  • #65855
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dare, I say that the judge has been bribed….. I think mark should set up a sight where people can contibute into fund to fight cases for gross injustice

    The builders bribe all and sundry !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • #65856
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    David- What I can´t understand is, if the development is illegal, then there is no doubt that the developer is in breach of contract, let alone the competion date. Have they given you any reason why the development is illegal?

  • #65858
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It appears that their First Occupation licence ( by positive silence ) has been rejected by the Town hall Marbella.

    Building permissions dept. 16th. August. ( after our court case by the way )

  • #65866
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    David, I have sent you a pm.

  • #65870
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi David

    Claire and myself recently went through court cases with your same developer (different development).
    We were lucky, we had Bank Guarantees, and were successful in getting our money back plus legal interest via our very good lawyer.

    He has just e-mailed me to say he is following the forum (!) and in your case suggests – due to lack of appeal time left – that you should request an appeal with your current lawyer now before it is too late.

    If you later change your mind to appeal (or indeed change lawyers) it won’t matter – but to at least get your appeal request in before the deadline passes.

    Barbara

  • #65874
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Christina,

    The letter I have dated 16th. August 2006 indicates refusal of the First Occupation Licence for 340 dwellings.

    The application does not comply with the current town planning regulations.

    The changes in the regulations may be those of the new director of Marbella planning office and the changes he has implemented which I have read in a report dated Friday 04 August 2006.

    Without these recent changes the application mayt have gone throiugh . Who knows ??

  • #65880
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charlie, your a great supporting help.

    Thanks to both you and your lawyer following these threads.

    I am trying to get a fax copy of the Resolution.

    In the meantime I need assurance that it is Ok change LAWYERS after the appeal has been registered.

    I understand its Ok to stop the proceedings, but as time is short it is most probably best to use M. E. to appeal and then consider the change to a better lawyer.

    Any knowledgeable response will be helpful as time ” is of the essence ” now.

    Thanks again

  • #65887
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi David Dorrell,
    I am so outraged at your situation that I have started a new subject on Spanish lawyers honour and entgerity, please check it out and see the response from a lawyer who claims to be on the forum to contibute towards clearing the reputation of spanish lawyers.

    good luck and keep us posted dont let the b*****d get you down

  • #65888
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Are you sure that the lawyers from the builders and the Judge did not meet before in the chambers/men toilet to exchange brown envelope. ????

  • #65899
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    David

    Apparently now in these courts, a DVD recording is made, and a copy is available.
    Besides asking for a copy of the court’s resolution, ask for a copy of the DVD. If your lawyer doesn’t have one, he should know how to obtain one.

    Will check for you tomorrow if it is alright to change lawyers once an appeal has been registered.

    Barbara

  • #65902
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Recording maybe made in the Courts, I am sure not in the gents loo or a friendly Barman who keeps his cut.

  • #65916
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    No bank guarantee??? If construction start after May 5th (i believe) 2000, by LAW the new build needs to have a guarantee.

    Your lawyer should have told you:
    If the dev. is meant to complete on X date, you should have this in writing. Should it not be ready on said date, your lawyer should inform the relevant departments and you should keep track of your added costs (rental, extra petrol expenses, storage, etc…). You can then claim the costs from the developer.

    A lawyer friend of mine makes sure his clients do this and they don’t have problems.

    I don’t know how the situation changes though when its an illegal build though.

  • #65920
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    No bank guarantee??? If construction start after May 5th (i believe) 2000, by LAW the new build needs to have a guarantee.

    Your lawyer should have told you:
    If the dev. is meant to complete on X date, you should have this in writing.

    Thanks Fuengi,

    That’s exactly what I did, as I had sold in the UK in Dec.2003 and was renting ,pending moving into Los lagos, we presented all expenses and even called the letting agents as witnesses, does not appear to be correct that an important clause in the contract can not be considered relevant.

    I understand at the prehearing that ” mitigating circumstances ” were called by the developers,

    I am aware of the plasteres strike and the trouble they had getting the overhead cable buried in the ground, but I was told that judge said that was no arguement.

    How we get from that — to losing the claim, I do not know.

    I was also told by another estate agents that in Spain it is important that the developer notifies the purchasers of any delays, this was never done.

  • #65936
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I hope this can be of interest to anyone being troubled with Los lagos de Santa Maria Golf development.

    Further to my outline initially regarding the lost case for breach of contract I have firmly requested a copy of the court’s Resolution of the hearing.

    Trouble is it is in Legal Spanish which I cannot interpret.
    It is some 8 pages long.

    I have recently spent in excess of £.100 to have 2 other shorter pages interpreted here in UK at the rate of £.120 per 100 words. They did it well so that was OK. I need that info myself.

    If anyone can suggest a solution I would be oblidged.

    I also received an estimate of the legal fees ..in addition to that already paid for the court case ..

    The lost case will set us back about 14,000 Euros for the lawyers etc. of Los lagos and this will increase to 20,000 euros if we lost the appeal.
    So that is a guide to anyone about to do the same thing.

    Not small change.

    Our lawyers have made an amazing offer to run the appeal for only 1,000 euros plus 500 euros for the Court Assistant in Malaga.

    Having read a post or PM elsewhere I recall a mention of 5,000 euros plus etc. for the court assistant only !!

    Seems that ME have a guilt complex and are financially doing something to recompense the problem.

    I ( and my wife ) have not yet decided whether we can or should risk this appeal.

    Our litigation lawyer at ME has come accross with strong vibes of success.

    Maybe there is justice just around the corner ❓

    Bye the way .. it is estimated that the appeal would be in some 8 months time to 1 year. They must be busy.. wonder what with ??

  • #65939
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Let me give you a hint why they would be so busy,

    Dia de consititcion, dia de pilar, asuncion, macarena, thrown in with local fiestas and ofcourse than there is the feria de seviile, jarez, las fallas, st fermain etc.

  • #65942
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @David Dorrrell wrote:

    Hi,

    They would normally have charged 10% of the property valuation , ie. 30,000 euros, but as we pointed out their default, they have actioned the claim for only 3,000 euros.

    If anyone knows of this group or is in this group I would like to know the result of their claim or the current position of their court action.

    I am not sure what you mean by they have actioned the claim for only 3,000 euros.

    Have you received the lawyers bill for the reduced amount yet ? Have they told you if the procurador(sp?) will bill separately?

    Have you any idea of the other sides bills to date? (they will not be thinking of giving you a discount)

    Has anyone told you how much you could potentially have to pay to the other side if you lose the appeal as well? not to mention your own legal teams fees.

    The legal system in Spain is nothing but nothing like anything in the UK.

    I wish you every sucess and hope it all works out well.

    Jude

  • #65943
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    quote=”David Dorrrell”]

    Seems that ME have a guilt complex and are financially doing something to recompense the problem.

    You Think so ❓

    Our Litigation lawyer at ME has come across with strong vibes of success.

    Surely, if they had put your case across properly the first time there would be no need for appeal.What are they going to do this time that they didn’t do in the first place to guarantee a success. If I were you in view of what it has cost you so far I would ask for a “no win -no fee” contract. If they are so sure of success they will accept that. If not I wouldn’t waste your money. If it could take up to a year, suppose during that time Los Lagos is legalised. Try getting your money back from your lawyer AFTER you have parted with your money to him/her. That’ll be another court case. I speak from experience..twice over! 😈

    maybe there is justice just around the corner ❓

    I’d be very surprised!

    They must be busy.. wonder what with ??

    All the court cases in progress for the clients that they didn’t get BG’s for from Eralia!!!!!! 😈

  • #65947
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @David Dorrrell wrote:

    .

    Having read a post or PM elsewhere I recall a mention of 5,000 euros plus etc. for the court assistant only !!

    I gave that number randomly, you musn’t take it as a precise figure. I don’t know the facts of your case (amount you are claiming for, amount lost etc…)

    The costs of legal proceedings depends on many factors which all have to be calculated.

    My point was that normally whatever the lawyer charges you, a procurador will charge half of that in addition to the lawyer’s fees.

    I think that they call “Court Assistance” to the procurador.

    It seems very cheap. You musn’t be claiming back a lot of money then.

  • #65950
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks Drakan,

    I believe the lawyers are acting on an ” at cost ” basis due to their earlier mistakes.

    I think some 93,000 euros deposit, plus legal plus my expenses totalling about 18,000 bring the potential claim to 110-120,000 euros.

    Not a small amount of money to me ( us ) !!

  • #66045
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    David,

    Very sorry, but whilst trying to correct the spelling mistake in your username I managed to delete you from the system. None of your posts have been deleted, but as you can see, they no longer correspond to a registered user. It’s not a big problem, just re-register.

    Apologies once again.

    Mark

  • #66050
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    hi David!
    I am so sorry to hear your devastating news, I was upset myself when I heard it as we too have had to suffer going through the Spanish courts to optain justice as all the forum members know well how difficult it can be.
    You are deciding if you should appeal or not, It is a lot of money you have invested there and if it means you have to pay a bit more to stage an appeal I myself would consider it worth it if it meant you would get your money back from the developer. Mabey a different court in a different location is what is needed. I wish you all the best of luck David.!!

    Bettyboo

  • #66051
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mark writes that he has wiped me out !! 😆 ( accidently ) 😆

    I asked if he would correct the spelling of my surname, and it went a bit wrong.

    I have put this post in here so that any PM’s can be sent and to show my corrected registered entry on the forum.

    I had replied to ALL my pm’s but have lost the saved messages.

    Thanks for everyone’s continuing support, 😀

  • #66079
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi David

    Could you not ask for a bank guarantee now? After all the promoter has your money and the property is still not available as it doesn’t have a LFO.

    What was the advice of the Lawyer regarding success of your case before you started? Clearly you needed out of it for some reason apart from just late completion.

    sorry i hope don’t mind asking questions i’m just curious.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66080
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think the problem is Paul, the Bank would not issue a guarantee now as this developer, the same as Barbara’s and ours, has so many claims against them!

  • #66081
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Claire

    Well i have a very good friend who has bought there and is happy to wait for the LFO, his Lawyer is advising him to wait before signing. As for the BG he has one, he and the Lawyer have seen his BG. I am also mindful that when i bought mine (same developer) the same Lawyer held back the second payment until we had sight of the BG.

    If it’s the Law in Spain and they must give a BG then, how can the developer refuse?

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66082
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    Well i have a very good friend who has bought there and is happy to wait for the LFO, his Lawyer is advising him to wait before signing.

    Just as well.

    Last month, on August 16th, Marbella Town Hall Planning Dept. rejected the developer’s application for a Licence of First Occupation through Administrative Silence for Los Lagos, Santa Maria Golf……on two grounds.

    One of the reasons stated is that the building licence for Los Lagos was based on an illegal plan for the area (one of the corrupt Mayor Gil’s own plans 🙄 ).

    The building licence was not in accordance with the Junta’s 1986 PGOU plan – which allowed only the building of townhouses or individual houses. Not 340 apartments!

    Therefore application for LFO rejected, building licence waiting for judicial review (goodness knows when that will happen…..).

    Looks like your friend may have a long wait, Paul.

  • #66083
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    What was the advice of the Lawyer regarding success of your case before you started? Clearly you needed out of it for some reason apart from just late completion.

    One would have thought his lawyer had plenty of other reasons to support a breach of contract…… 🙄

  • #66084
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Charlie

    Looks like your friend may have a long wait, Paul.

    Clearly he wants in as soon as possible, but he is not concerned as he has a BG (which must mature soon.) If all else fails he’ll get his money back with better interest than he would get in a savings account.

    One would have thought his lawyer had plenty of other reasons to support a breach of contract……

    Indeed hence my question, as it seems to me that a lawyer could ask for a BG at anytime, even now as it is against the law for a promoter not to give one. While I am not an expert it would seem sensible for the Lawyer to threaten the promoter with legal action regarding the non appearance of the BG first. Then assess the possible success of the case for late completion, even to the point of waiting for the news regarding the LFO.

    While i await David’s response if i was him i would be asking the lawyer to do his / her job and get a BG from the promoter, obviously with a sensible maturity date.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66086
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paul, Davids lawyer is the one who has consistently failed to get BG’s for many, many purchasers of the above named developments!! They(lawyers) are/were SERIOUSLY in bed with this developer!! Our lawyer has several Court cases pending for ex clients of theirs because of their failure to get BG’s for them. 👿

  • #66087
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Paul, Davids lawyer is the one who has consistently failed to get BG’s for many, many purchasers of the above named developments!!

    He should change lawyers and get a BG then, rather than thinking about staying with them an appealing. Or am i only getting part of the story due to PM’s?

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66088
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The most important thing for David, as I understand, is to let the Court know that he is appealing against their judgement. He has a limited time in which to do this. I would imagine any lawyer can do this but I’m sure the eagle beagles(Lawyers) out there would be able to answer that one. I’m saying no more as David still has a Court case ahead of him.

  • #66098
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @p800aul wrote:

    …if i was him i would be asking the lawyer to do his / her job and get a BG from the promoter, obviously with a sensible maturity date.

    and

    @p800aul wrote:

    Hi David

    Could you not ask for a bank guarantee now? After all the promoter has your money and the property is still not available as it doesn’t have a LFO.

    What was the advice of the Lawyer regarding success of your case before you started? Clearly you needed out of it for some reason apart from just late completion.

    Hi Paul, agree with all your comments above, but
    ……should we be the one having to keep asking the lawyer to do these things or isn’t it part of a lawyer’s job to do everything to protect their client’s interest automatically without us having to ask?

    Remember Paul, this is the law firm that you say you recommend. Personally, based on what I’ve learnt – too many scenarios where they just don’t cut it.

  • #66108
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Charlie

    Remember Paul, this is the law firm that you say you recommend.

    Is it, I’ve not recommended anyone to David?

    The law firm i recommended to my friend who bought at Lagos got a BG for them and i know they did for me when i bought as they delayed payment until we had sight of it.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66114
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    charlie wrote: (See Los Lagos Santa Maria Golf – LFO rejected by Town Hall )
    Copy of my posting on the above forum index.
    Artículo 4

    Expedida la cédula de habitabilidad por la Delegación Provincial del Ministerio de la Vivienda y acreditada por el promotor la entrega de la vivienda al comprador, se cancelarán las garantías otorgadas por la Entidad aseguradora o avalista.”

    Basically it means that the BG is cancelled only on the day of completion, after receiving LFO.

    So, really any BG with an “expiry date” should be considered illegal.”

    Reading this new post on the forum , then surely any BANK that issues a guarantee with an expiry date, mine was dated to expire December 2005, has ALSO put themselves in the position of having legal proceedings against THEMSELVES or meet the contractual terms and pay back any deposits..?.

    If the law stands correct, then anyone with a BG for Los Lagos can ignore the expiry date and , as the architect has signed off the site as complete, November 2005, and with the LFO being rejected, the developer is unable to deliver the property, then the purchasers are legally permitted to claim their money back FROM THE BANK.

    Correct ??.. may I be 1st. in line please ?

    David.

  • #66117
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Paul

    With respect, I didn’t say you recommended the law firm to David.

    I said “this is the lawfirm that you say you recommend”.

    Which you did, publicly on this forum, albeit on another thread:

    @p800aul wrote:

    This PM stuff irritates me.

    They did a good job for me, and are currently advising a good friend of mind NOT to complete on a Los Lagos property until a LFO is in place.

    I for one would (and have) recommended them

    Hope this helps those who have these acting for them.

    Regards

    Paul

    Barbara

  • #66120
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dear Charlie

    Arh

    The dreaded PM’s hence you know David’s law firm and I don’t, although I should have guessed from the ME reference I suppose.

    Well I would still recommend them, as I keep saying the lawyer I used from this firm was very particular about these things, in fact I found the emails regarding this only the other day. So I can quote:-

    “I hereby inform to you that the Promoter has phoned us to collect the original of the bank guarantee that we had asked. Therefore, we will make the payment foreseen for the 31st August.

    We had retained the amount until the obtaining of the bank guarantee”

    I also asked about late delivery of the apartment and his response was:-

    “Regarding your answer about the compensation for delay, I can tell you that normally the vendor does not accept this kind of agreements.

    If the vendor does not deliver in time he will breach the contract with you, which entitles you to cancel the contract (if you want), giving back to you the amounts that you had paid plus the legal interest.”

    I have other examples of their work, e.g. they translated the purchase contract in to English (free) and they got the snagging done in my apartment with one threatening FAX to Eralia.

    This is a large Law Firm and I would suggest that David speaks to a partner in it, as i am sure the guy I used (still a partner in the firm ) would be outraged by the fact David has no BG, he was so methodical with my deal.

    should we be the one having to keep asking the lawyer to do these things or isn’t it part of a lawyer’s job to do everything to protect their client’s interest automatically without us having to ask?

    No we should not be the ones asking and it should be the lawyer’s job. I didn’t ask, as i was told by the lawyer from the get go that i would have a BG or insurance policy. Although i was fully aware that i should have one. I know my friend who has bought at Los Lagos didn’t ask and he has seen his, he used the same law firm as me (and David it would seem) and he is being told not to complete before an LFO. I repeat what i have said earlier in the thread David should ask for a BG

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66121
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If the law stands correct, then anyone with a BG for Los Lagos can ignore the expiry date and , as the architect has signed off the site as complete, November 2005, and with the LFO being rejected, the developer is unable to deliver the property, then the purchasers are legally permitted to claim their money back FROM THE BANK.

    Correct ??.. may I be 1st. in line please ?

    Am i missing something David I thought you said you didn’t have a BG?

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66122
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As Claire says:

    @Claire wrote:

    Our lawyer has several Court cases pending for ex clients of theirs because of their failure to get BG’s for them.

    It seems, Paul, you were lucky with your particular lawyer with this firm. There are many others who weren’t and a law firm should not be pot-luck.

    David had a Bank Guarantee, but has long expired (last year). Hence he has no current valid Bank Guarantee.

  • #66123
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This forum is pointless for most of us then as David clearly says

    This has cost a lot of money in legal fees by our lawyers, who by the way did not get our Bank Guarantee.

    in his first post

    It would seem the rest of the information has been exchange via PM’s, for what reason only those in the closed circle know. What is the point of having a forum if the information is not shared and in some cases the wrong information is given. All of my posts on this thread have been a waste of time and of no help to anyone reading it.

    It is clear that David wants out of a contract he made with the promoter for the delay, the court agreed that the promoter had good reason and he lost. He was not willing to go in with others who where trying the same thing, instead he wanted to get there first, on the advice of his lawyer. He failed, why should we sympathise, no doubt a good reason to sympathise was shared via the closed shop of PM’s. He took a chance and failed as far as I can see, and it only cost him 3,000 euros a bargain i say.

    Hence he has no current valid Bank Guarantee

    Not according to your lawyer Carlos, Charlie

    and a law firm should not be pot-luck.

    Agreed so don’t rely on luck, I don’t

    WHAT A WASTE OF TIME THIS HAS BEEN

  • #66128
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    A bit of a hissy fit going on with your posts Paul! 😉

    I cannot understand why you are protesting so much. Is it because you “think” you are missing out on something? Some things are best discussed privately and not on the forum. Mark often advises this. That is why the pm facility is available. Some people do not want every detail of their situation to be exposed on a public forum. We should respect that .

    For the record, your “assumptions” on your last post are off the mark.

  • #66129
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Quote Charlie: Hence he has no current valid Bank Guarantee

    Quote P800aul: Not according to your lawyer Carlos, Charlie

    Paul, I’m afraid you have missed Carlos’ point.
    You’ve already mis-quoted me tonight, please don’t start now on Carlos.

    Carlos said: “Basically it (the law) means that the BG is cancelled only on the day of completion, after receiving LFO”.
    …..meaning the intention of the law is to give Bank Guarantee coverage until completion day.

    That is the relevant point. A Bank Guarantee shouldn’t have a time limit, it should give coverage until completion. If completion is unacceptably overdue, one should be able to call on the BG. That is the whole point of the BG, and one that can go ‘out-of-date’ is going against the intent of the law.

    He followed this up with the next logical conclusion by saying therefore a Bank Guarantee with an expiry date should be considered illegal.

    Drakan then added:
    “The bank/Insurance Company are not obliged (to pay up) with an expired BG. That’s why the job of a lawyer is to make sure that there is always a valid BG”.

    So if you have an out-of -date Bank Guarantee, it is useless.
    David’s lawyer, by allowing a Bank Guarantee to be 9 months out of date was obviously not doing his job well.

    However, Paul, you are obviously hell-bent on defending/recommending this firm – and that is fine.
    But if, for legal reasons, David has had to resort to a lot of pm correspondence, why get so angry and start rubbishing the forum?

    You’ve been on it long enough to know the problems re. naming names on the forum, Mark has forbidden it in certain contexts, and maybe David doesn’t want to discuss in public his next move for legal reasons.

    Sorry it doesn’t suit.

    Finally, let me assure you, paying 3000 euros in this particular case was not a bargain. It was money down the drain and should not have gone to court on the basis it went in the first place.

    You seem suddenly very bitter towards David in your post. I don’t understand why – is it because his sorry story was with the firm you seem hell-bent on defending?
    As I said in my last post, you were lucky with your particular lawyer, Paul – and I repeat, a law firm should not be pot luck.

  • #66131
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dear Claire and Charlie

    Look the law from what i can make out say ALL off plan developments MUST have a BG. If he’s got one great, if he hasn’t, go get one or sue.

    If its illegal then David will get his money back with interest, interest better than he’ll get at a bank and at a rate which will allow him to borrow if he need to get a new place (I still haven’t found out why he wants out, he’s waited this long)

    I am angry because i was misled by his post, you where not because of PM’s. That did not involve ‘naming names’ it involved BG and we all now know who we are talking about anyway.

    Lawyer’s give advice, advice you do not have to take, hence my question earlier ‘what was the lawyers opinion on the likelihood of success’ this all seems a little out of whack to me. The development will be a while before it gets it’s LFO (David didn’t wait for that out come) there is another group looking to cancel (David didn’t join that group). Instead, i assume on advice, he took a chance at trying to cancel a contract and lost. Clearly it was a gamble, it could have cost a great deal more and you must know that 3,000 euros is a bargain for any lawyer to go to court on any matter.

    It seems now David has a much better gamble at asking for his money back with no LFO in the near future. I am not bitter I asked question he has not responded to them, I’ve asked and discussed about his BG all day and had no response until i asked if I was missing something. I was, you pointed that out Charlie !

    Has David ever asked about the BG renewal?

    We all have Hissy fits now and again don’t we Claire 😉

    I repeat I don’t rely on luck, pot or otherwise (well on the first tee maybe)

    Maybe that makes me lucky.

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66135
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    A reply / update really for P800aul and others that have followed this saga.

    ME did NOT get any form of guarantee when the contract was exchanged by power of attorney.2002/2003
    The actual lady lawyer left the firm 2003.
    New lawyers that we were assigned to us within the company, came and went over the years and no-one apparently read the file properly or did anything about the guarantee.
    Only when we were aware that the site would not be completed on time ( we were renting in Spain waiting for completion ) were we told that no BG had been obtained.

    On my insistence they did get a BG in early 2005 ( after the 2nd completion date of Dec 2004 written in the contract ) with a expiry date of Dec. 2005.
    As events have unfolded the architect has signed off the site Nov. 2005 and I assumed the BG has become useless.

    If your lawyer within ME was S de la C then I respect your opinion of him, for I communicated well with him, and as a ” senior exec. ” he has instructed his firm to go to court on our behalf and instigated the reduced fees scale that we are paying them.

    However he cannot handle ALL the business and has always delgated following his involvement.

    I hope this clarifies the BG situation.

    Yes there have been some Pm’s going on and information exchanged that may affect my legal position if ME were to know the full picture by reading this forum, as you are.

    Would you wish that I loose my legal representation just so that you know ALL the facts ?

    David

  • #66140
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dear David

    If your lawyer within ME was S de la C

    Surprisingly it was and still is.

    Would you wish that I loose my legal representation just so that you know ALL the facts ?

    No, so I will shut up.

    Good luck

    Regards

    Paul

  • #66608
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As an update, and a courtesy to many of you forum members, reading these postings, I am very happy to let you know that I have been able, during the past week and over the last weekend, to remove my original Spanish law firm and am now under the wing of my new Spanish lawyer.

    This could not have happened without the help of Mark, for running this Spanish Property Forum, Barbara & Katerina, for their quick and impartial advice, but good advice, the supportive postings on the forum from many of you, and the host of PM’s received.

    My new lawyer, known on the forum, is Carlos, and I am deeply indebted to him for taking on a problem case at short notice and moving quickly to secure the file from my original lawyers and instigate the apeal on my behalf.
    ( Apparently we had a bit more time than my lawyers had told me !! )

    I know this will be the start of a good client – lawyer relationship.

    May I suggest..as other have on the forum..

    If any readers are having problems with the actions or in-action of their lawyers or other firms supposed to be acting on your behalf, and are dissatisfied..be bold..( I was reluctant to do this myself so I know the anxieties )..find a new one and sleep nights !!

    Things can only get better.

    Again

    Thank you.

  • #66609
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Good luck 🙂

  • #66621
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Can I also add my comments of appreciation for the help I have had
    In same position as David with Los Lagos – illegally built complex and I would say yes all you folks out there who were ask to complete with withot BGs should find a new solicitor. We also found Carlos via the forum and have had more input in 1 week than in 3yrs with JF
    Is it possible for Mark to comply a list so that all solicitors who put us in this position are named and shamed. This could be pass on to the Spanish authorities
    Alternatively would some one be able to put a simple letter together (in Spainish) which says My solicitor MR x did not get me bank guarantees These could be pass on in bulk perhaps the authorities will start to clamp down or I am being to optomistic

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.