Liars Loans or Mortgage Fraud

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 6 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #55900
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    It’s reported in the UK that 47% of all mortgages given during the recent property boom years were Liars Loans, that is to say Non-Status/Self-Cert mortgages where lenders and their brokers helped fabricate the earnings figures for applicants. This may account for the largest ever financial fraud in UK history, dwarfing MP’s expenses etc amounting to over 100 billion stg.

    Apparently during 2010 and despite the financial and property crashes, 42% of UK mortgages are still Liars Loans.

    Further, whilst savers are being screwed with low interest rates, the beneficiaries of the Liars Loans are gaining again fraudulently it seems with low rates on their loans.

    The FSA, and BOE, Banks, and Gov’t seem completely to turn their blind eyes to this, Why?

    How does this compare to mortgages given out in Spain, are there many similarities in numbers and lack of regulation and investigation? Are these frauds just too big to bash, would investigation and punishment bring down the institutions and markets? 🙄

  • #101084
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The FSA, and BOE, Banks, and Gov’t seem completely to turn their blind eyes to this, Why?

    The FSA is impotent. (Private Eye has long referred to them as the “Financially Supine Authority”).
    The banks and bankers make a lot of money out of these loans and heck if the ever get into trouble the taxpayer will bail them out.
    The Gov’t and BoE are beholden to the banks. Despite recent noises after the crisis they will take no significant action.

  • #101095
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It’s reported in the UK that 47% of all mortgages given during the recent property boom years were Liars Loans, that is to say Non-Status/Self-Cert mortgages

    I HAVE THESE MORTGAGES AS YOU PUT IT “LIARS LOANS” MANY OF MY FRIENDS. ONLY FOR REASONS THAT OUR FINANCIAL AFFAIRS WERE/ARE COMPLEX & DOES NOT FIT THE NORMAL PROFILE. I HAVE NEVER USED A BROKER & HAVE ALWAYS APPROACHED AN EXISTING LENDER OR A NEW LENDER DIRECTLY. IT DEPENDED ON THE PRODUCT. I NEVER BORROWED MORE THAN 75% LTV AND MY OWN STRESS TEST.

    IN SO FAR AS MY FRIENDS ARE CONCERNED SOME HAVE USED A BROKER ONLY FOR TIME CONSTRAINT AT THE HEIGHT OF THE BOOM THERE WERE MORE THAN 3000 MORTGAGE PRODUCTS. IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO SORCE THE MORTGAGE THAT SUITED ONE.

    where lenders and their brokers helped fabricate the earnings figures for applicants

    AS, I SAID THAT I NEVER USED A BROKER AND HAD NOT FABRICATED. YES I DID PUT MY BEST FOOT FORWARD.

    This may account for the largest ever financial fraud in UK history,
    PERHAPS.

    dwarfing MP’s expenses

    MP’S ARE PUBLIC SERVENTS AND IN A VERY PREVILAGE POSITION. THE BOROOWERS OR BANKERS ARE NOT PUBLIC SERVENTS THE BANKERS ARE RESPONSIBLE TO THEIR SHAREHOLDERS.

    etc amounting to over 100 billion stg.

    NOT ALL SUCH MORTGAGES ARE IN NON PERFORMING STATE. INFACT I DONT KNOW ANYBODY IN THAT POSITION.

    Apparently during 2010 and despite the financial and property crashes, 42% of UK mortgages are still Liars Loans.

    LIAR OR NOT I CANNOT COMMENT. BUT WITH PART TIME, SHORT TERM, TWO JOBS,HELP FROM MOM AND DAD. YOU WILL NOT GET MANY BORROWERS WHO WILL FIT THE 3.5 TIMES ANNUAL SALARY. THE LOW WAGES THAT WE ARE PAID DOES NOT ALLOW TO BE ABLE TO BORROW. I DO NOT OBJECT TO THIS KIND OF LENDING PROVIDING ALL DUE DILIGENCE IS CARRIED OUT BY THE LENDER. IT IS THE LENDERS RESPONSIBILTY AS TO WHO THEY WISH TO LEND MEETING THEIR OWN CRITERIA.

    Further, whilst savers are being screwed with low interest rates,

    YES, THEY ARE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DE WITH THE BORROWER. THE LENDERS ARE KEEPING A SPREAD OF NEARLY 5%. WHILE THE GORNMENT IS TURNING A BLIND EYE ALLOWING THE BANKERS TO BUILD THERE BALANCE SHEET.

    the beneficiaries of the Liars Loans are gaining again fraudulently it seems with low rates on their loans.

    PLEASE TELL ME WHERE ARE THESE LOW RATES BEING OFFERED. THE RATES OFFERED TODAY ARE STILL HIGHER THAN BEFORE THE CRASH.

    The FSA, and BOE, Banks, and Gov’t seem completely to turn their blind eyes to this,

    AGREE, LIKE ALWAYS. REFER TO ABOVE,

    How does this compare to mortgages given out in Spain,

    THERE WERE NOT MANY PRODUCTS. I THINK BANCO HALIFAX WAS THE MOST INNOVATIVE. NO SPANISH BANK COULD EVER UNDERSTAND MY FINANCIAL AFFAIRS. I TOOK A SIMILAR KIND OF PRODUCT IN SPAIN AS IN UK. I HAVE NEVER DEFAULTED NEITHER IN UK OR IN SPAIN. SO THE PRODUCT WORKWS IT WHO THE BANKS TO LEND & THERE CAPACITY NOT ONLY FINANCIAL BUT OTHER COMMERCIAL ACUMEN.

    there many similarities in numbers and lack of regulation and investigation? Are these frauds just too big to bash, would investigation and punishment bring down the institutions and markets?

    WATCH THIS SPACE.

  • #101115
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Shakeel,I’m not sure whether your reply was defensive or belligerent bearing in mind the over emphasis of Capitals to stress points. 🙄

    Liars Loans are widely reported in the UK, they are fraudulent as well. The beneficiaries are gaining as I know from Tracker or fixed rates which are low, while savers are suffering.

    The issue keeps being raised in the Press with little done about it.

    However I have just heard back directly from Hector Sants of the FSA at last, following a bit of banging the drum to both him and Mervyn King who has always replied personally. It is all going to change it seems but in their own time.

    Anyone else have knowledge of how this compares to mortgage fraud in Spain? 😉

  • #101120
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Angie, I am sorry if my reply came as you stated. The reason I used capital is to segregate from your posting & my response. If one of you can teach me how to use colour code I can promise I will never use capital.

    Now, the point that I was making was that kind of loans are OK, as set by my own & other friends examples( I dont mean lied about as this is fruad obtaining funds by deception )These loans are not responsible for the low interest rates. They are the result of greed and the spread the Banks are making. BOE, tresury etc are keeping quite as they know that whilst the Bank are extorting money out of us. The government chances of saving them diminshes. Besides the banks that had been handed out tax payers funds in bailing them out are paying higher interest to the Treasury for those funds.
    It is in the banks intrest to pay this off first & as businesses are either not borrowing or the banks are not lending these payments of Capital & interest by the Banks is being met from such sources. Of course it is much more complex than my example.

    A BOE, member I think he is the deputy Governer who had said a few weeks ago that we should go out & spend to help the economy & dip into our capital as low interest rates are here to stay for the forceable future.

    I personally feel that is very reckless remark from him. However it may have been taken out of context by the media.

    In so far as such mortgages in Spain I cant comment on it. No one that know has made such remarks. The main problem that I hear are not changing interest rates until anniversary date of the mortgage & not turning the mortgage into interest only for a short period. I am aware this cant be done due to breach of conditions and any change need to be notarised.

    Once again. I apolgise if you felt I was what ever you perceived me to be.

  • #101131
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Thanks shakeel for your response, I realise that many people in the UK obtained liars loans sometimes through the fault of their brokers who turned a ‘blind eye’ to their earnings.

    I think the total fraud might well exceed £140 billion so I think everyone (inc Gov’t and Regulators) is scared to investigate or punish as markets could crash, although the media constantly mention these loans nothing is done.

    I can’t help thinking with the numbers of properties sold in Spain during the boom years, that many of their mortgages must be similar, however nothing gets mentioned.

    Mark, with your finger on the pulse, do you know if this is as big a problem in Spain as in the UK?

  • #101139
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Angie, even if they the bodies involved starts looking into it. Are they going to call their loans back, Send the brokers & bankers to jail ??? We have murders not finding a place in the jails where are these Brokers and Bankers be housed in a jail.

    Besides the Govenment will not lift the lid as we are whiter than white its the jolly foreignor who is corrupt…

  • #101158
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Thanks shakeel, I do agree that would hardly wish to call the loans back because of the damage it could further cause to property markets, and I respect your position on your loan too. At least you have been up front on that, however I believe because many others do not reply to this issue either in the UK or Spain, perhaps quite a few of them also have similar loans, or, don’t wish to rock their boat because of vested interest 😉

    In the UK though, the FSA have confirmed they are clamping down on these loans, they call them Self-Cert loans, mortgage applicants are having to verify their incomes from now on, and not being allowed to over borrow, the old rule of 3 to 3.5 times income multiple appears to be returning with a larger deposit.

  • #101176
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I am sorry but I do not see why FSA has to get involved. It is for the bank to establish the risk.

    I am not in favour of bodies like FSA etc to get involved. They are pretty effective at best times. People working for them are one who get their jobs because of contacts, old school tie etc.

  • #101192
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Shakeel, they are getting involved in the UK because they are the supposed Regulators of the Banks etc who have acted fraudulently and gung-ho for years.

    The FSA have had a lot of stick because they have been negligent and lax so are now trying to do what they should have done first, but yes it’s the Banks who take the risk but look what they did to World economies! 🙄

  • #101195
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, So the Bankers should be held accountable ( I am not bankers bashing ) If they are not capable of determining the risk they would go down. As they did.

    FSA with the best intent in the world cannot deal with the issues. With billions involved & funds moving electronically in nano seconds, what can the FSA do after the event.

    Its the same as Police coming to ones house a few days after it had been burgled. So taking your reasoning one should be stopped from buying or living in the House until it has been vetted by the boys in blue.

  • #101245
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Looking forward to the UK cuts today with my bottle of rioja for company.

    Lets hope they include bankers’ bonuses 😆

  • #101252
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In a Democratic society no one can stop the terms & conditions that an employer and emplyee agree to. The Government can tax them at a higher rate. If this happens some or all the bonus can be paid off shore or the employee can establish a bonus work out the text & work backwards to the gross amount.

    NB: I am not a Banker !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • #101263
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ‘Liars Loans’ have never gone away. We’ve had them for many, many years. Most mortgages are granted on liars loans, business would collapse without liars loans.

    I suppose the definition depends on the finer details, just like Osborne’s cuts from earlier today.

    Where I live on the Costa Blanca, the estate agents who are left have finely tuned their offers to fit in with the banks new requirements, refined liars loans, hardly different to what came before, and possibly even more ridiculous.

    They’re spending even more time to download references and all sorts other nonsense which the banks happily accept knowing full well that it is just that, nonsense.

    I’m sorry to say that I think it was always thus.

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