Just when we thought it was all over.

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 3 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #57250
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Well we didn’t did we. The can is rolling back down the road. Gloomy figures coming out of Spain daily. Tourism figures down 5% in December. GDP down, sales down, Catalonia needs another bailout…….

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9835502/Spains-crisis-strategy-under-fire-as-economy-buckles-again.html

  • #114839
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    A lot of good stuff turning up too – don’t worry the future is looking brighter (although NO-ONE said it is all over, there is a lot of pain to get through still)

    Holidaymakers spend a record 55.6 billion euros in Spain last year (no good reverse cherry picking the off peak figures Katy – the year is up!) http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/22306/record-spending-for-holidaymakers-in-spain-seen-last-year

    New Nissan Almera to be built in Barcelona – at last the unions agree the deal http://www.elconfidencial.com/economia/2013/01/29/nissan-cierra-un-acuerdo-para-fabricar-el-almera-en-barcelona-113804/

    Banks in Spain to refund most of their BCE bail-out money http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/22296/banks-in-spain-to-refund-most-of-their-bce-bail-out-money

    Assembly plants that previously outsourced, to return to Spain http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2013/01/21/agencias/1358776187_526072.html

    Volkswagon join Renault and Ford in new car production investments in Spain http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/23/uk-spain-cars-idUKBRE90M0YX20130123

    Sorry to disappoint those who want to see the Spanish economy go under – it isn’t going to happen! (and the bond premium is staying low)

  • #114840
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    You are a joke 😆 😆 A bit of a King Canute 😛 I leave the cherry picking to sites like think Spain etc and read the full official ones.

    Seen Logans thread with the Guardian link…is everyone wrong…been on BBC this morning too!

  • #114841
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    You are a joke 😆 😆 A bit of a King Canute 😛 I leave the cherry picking to sites like think Spain etc and read the full official ones.

    Seen Logans thread with the Guardian link…is everyone wrong…been on BBC this morning too!

    Well I see you’ve reverted to ad-hom attacks straight-away – lost the argument already? Or just in denial over Volkswagen, Ford, Renault and Nissan all investing in Spain?

    Incidentally I see the 50 euro autonomo fee for young entrepreneurs as being the best measure the PP have introduced.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/28/spain-economy-idUSL5N0AX26320130128

    Good to see firms like MercaDona, Inditex and Restalia are expanding both inside and outside Spain. The more people who find work the better.
    Restalia (100 montaditos and La Sureña) to open 450 new outlets in 2013.
    http://www.abc.es/economia/20130118/abci-restalia-facturacion-prevision-201301172236.html

  • #114842
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Tourism Dec 2012

    La caída en diciembre, que se traduce en 35.000 llegadas menos, se produce después de la estabilidad mostrada en noviembre y el retroceso del 3,2 % experimentado en octubre, con el que se rompía la tendencia creciente seguida a lo largo de todo el año.

    Entre los mercados principales, en diciembre destacan las caídas del Reino Unido, del 11,3 %, siendo Andalucía y Canarias las comunidades donde más ha disminuido el flujo de turistas británicos recibidos.

    Italia cayó un 24,8 % y Rusia, un 2,3 %, tras un año en el que ha encadenado espectaculares subidas.

    En el lado opuesto se sitúan Francia, que avanzó un 16,8 %, Alemania, que subió un 7,4 %, y los países nórdicos, con un aumento del 13,8 %.

    La subida de los turistas galos benefició sobre todo a Cataluña, la misma comunidad donde se dejó notar el aumento de turistas germanos, mientras que el avance del mercado nórdico se concentró en Canarias.

    Por comunidades autónomas, Madrid y Andalucía concentraron la caída del mes, al registrar retrocesos del 22 % y el 10,4 %, respectivamente.

    Canarias permaneció constante en diciembre, mientras que la Comunidad Valenciana creció un 4,4 % y las Islas Baleares registraron un avance del 10,1 %.

    Las entradas por vía aérea se contrajeron en diciembre un 4,1 %, mientras que la carretera protagoniza un importante avance del 15,9 %, tras dos meses sucesivos de caídas.

    Por tipos de alojamientos, mientras los hoteles recibieron menos turistas que hace un año (un 7,6 % menos), el alojamiento hotelero se incrementó un 11,4 %.

    Los turistas que recurrieron al paquete turístico crecieron un 1,2 %, mientras que los que optaron por otras formas de viaje cayeron un 2,1 %.

  • #114855
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The southern European countries are all in trouble, including France which is bankrupt. On the western fringes, the UK is heading for a triple dip recession and the pound Sterling is travelling south at a frightening speed.

    The world-wide recession for the past five years, which started in the US is to blame. This being an English speaking Spanish property forum it’s only natural for us to focus on those two countries, with plenty of ammunition to choose from, depending on what you type into Google.

    On a more sensible, Europe or worldwide basis what we are discussing is irrelevant to countries other than the UK or Spain.

    I was talking to a Swedish guy this morning who has lived in Spain for 20 years, and in the UK for 20 years before that. He seemed intelligent and fairly neutral in his assessment of both countries.

    ‘For the next two years, they’re both going down the pan,’ is what he said.

    I hope he’s wrong, twice.

  • #114857
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator
    Rocker wrote:
    The southern European countries are all in trouble, including France which is bankrupt. On the western fringes, the UK is heading for a triple dip recession and the pound Sterling is travelling south at a frightening speed.

    The world-wide recession for the past five years, which started in the US is to blame.

    No the USA isn’t to blame for the Eurozones woes, they did it all themselves. Many countries in the world now blame Europe for putiing the world economy at risk!
    I was talking to a Swedish guy this morning who has lived in Spain for 20 years, and in the UK for 20 years before that. He seemed intelligent and fairly neutral in his assessment of both countries.‘For the next two years, they’re both going down the pan,’ is what he said.

    …and that makes him an expert 🙄 bar room talk again. Of course he has a 50/50 chance of being correct 😆 .[/quote/]

  • #114858
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    So the UK could go down the pan in 2 years, lets see

    Car sales up
    house prices up
    retail spending up
    Unemployment down

    Compare with the Eurozone (except Germany) :mrgreen:

  • #114859
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I disagree with your first red reply asserting that the US were not to blame for the world recession. They were, although you could say their bankers were, JP Morgan, who invented those daft financial packets based on sub-prime mortgages in the US (a woman banker brought them to life) and Goldman Sachs and Lehmans who sold them to gullible bankers all over the world. It had nothing to do with Europe.

    You could be right with your second red post and the 50/50 chance, but the conversation with the clever Swede didn’t take place in a bar as such, rather a Spanish bar/restaurant, a mute point I suppose.

    I wish Cameron hadn’t made his ridiculous referendum promise to appease UKIP; as most commentators agree, five years of uncertainty are not good for the UK and on a personal level I’ve already lost a considerable amount of my earnings from the UK which I’m obliged to change into Euros.

    (You’ve missed an up for the UK – debt.)

  • #114860
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Cameron is an idiot, I agree about uncertainty…there should be a referendum NOW 💡

    The eurozone was always going to have a problem, it can never work, they kicked the can down the road for years before the financial crisis. See the predictions about Germany leaving have resurged…that would put the cat among the pigeons 😯

  • #114861
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    So the UK could go down the pan in 2 years, lets see

    Car sales up
    house prices up
    retail spending up
    Unemployment down

    Compare with the Eurozone (except Germany) :mrgreen:

    Unfortunately most serious commentators elsewhere disagree. For example:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/01/britains-economy-is-a-disaster-and-nobody-is-entirely-sure-why/272556/

    UK house prices are not up – although London prices affected by prices at the top end are. And the retail sector is having a terrible tome – 5,000 stores are forcecast to close by March (although a lot of this is down to eCommerce competition).
    http://www.brainsins.com/uk/blog/5000-stores-close/1922

    Things do look vibrant in certain sectors in London – but it depends heabily on foreign visitors (a good proportion from Europe). Keep up the anti Europe and anti-foreigner rhetoric Mr Cameron, and you’ll kill the golden goose.. I’m warming to having Boris as leader more and more. 😯

  • #114863
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    From the Land registry

    Biggest risers 2012

    Rise Average

    Merthyr Tydfil* 20.3% £73,662

    Greater London 8.4% £371,223

    Salford 6.8% £91,508

    Brighton & Hove 5.3% £229,004

    Anglesey 5.1% £134,328

    West Berkshire 5.% £232,043

    Swansea 4.8% £112,007

    Flintshire 4.5% £126,656

    Bristol 3.5% £169,667

    Oxfordshire 3.0% £243,237

    Surrey 3.0% £303,700

    Usual places have dropped eg. Bradford, Hull etc.

    Even you must admit the figures are better than the PIIGS. Especially Spain!

    I forgot to mention, UK mortgages are UP too :mrgreen:

  • #114864
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy.

    The mere thought of an in/out referendum must terrify most expats in Spain, in fact most expats living anywhere else in Europe too. I’m one of them and freely admit to never having been able to totally settle in my chosen expat country because of the uncertainty caused by the severe eurosceptic feeling back home. For that reason I’ve kept on my home in the UK, otherwise I would have sold it years ago.

    The feeling of uncertainty has some benefits, a kind of sense of adventure similar to moving over in the first place, a wagon train mentality taken to an extreme in some gated expat communities I have seen and hate.

    Germany daren’t hold a referendum, the masses want their Mark back and don’t care about their exports, not at street level. I think that’s similar to the UK, the masses have still got their pound but they can’t abide the idea of a United States of Europe.

    Who knows what the future holds, and never mind five years down the line. The desert belt of northern Africa is bigger than all of Europe and solidly Muslim, of the unforgiving kind. If they reach the Mediterranean I’ll be back in the UK like a shot.

  • #114865
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    From the Land registry

    Biggest risers 2012

    Rise Average

    Merthyr Tydfil* 20.3% £73,662

    Greater London 8.4% £371,223

    Salford 6.8% £91,508

    Brighton & Hove 5.3% £229,004

    Anglesey 5.1% £134,328

    West Berkshire 5.% £232,043

    Swansea 4.8% £112,007

    Flintshire 4.5% £126,656

    Bristol 3.5% £169,667

    Oxfordshire 3.0% £243,237

    Surrey 3.0% £303,700

    Usual places have dropped eg. Bradford, Hull etc.

    Even you must admit the figures are better than the PIIGS. Especially Spain!

    I forgot to mention, UK mortgages are UP too :mrgreen:

    Over expensive house prices is a big minus on the economy.
    It means we may be in for a big slump before it gets better.

    If only we’d had the crash a few years back. We wouldn’t now be having the triple dip. I’m getting work from foreign sources here in London, so things are at last looking up personally, but it’s looking grim for much of the local youth.

  • #114866
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Also figures needs to be inflation adjusted to have any meaning at all and not the fake kind either.

  • #114868
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    @katy.

    The mere thought of an in/out referendum must terrify most expats in Spain, in fact most expats living anywhere else in Europe too. I’m one of them and freely admit to never having been able to totally settle in my chosen expat country because of the uncertainty caused by the severe eurosceptic feeling back home. For that reason I’ve kept on my home in the UK, otherwise I would have sold it years ago.

    The feeling of uncertainty has some benefits, a kind of sense of adventure similar to moving over in the first place, a wagon train mentality taken to an extreme in some gated expat communities I have seen and hate.

    Germany daren’t hold a referendum, the masses want their Mark back and don’t care about their exports, not at street level. I think that’s similar to the UK, the masses have still got their pound but they can’t abide the idea of a United States of Europe.

    Who knows what the future holds, and never mind five years down the line. The desert belt of northern Africa is bigger than all of Europe and solidly Muslim, of the unforgiving kind. If they reach the Mediterranean I’ll be back in the UK like a shot.

    Germans don’t care about their exports because they don’t have to, do you think if germany pulled out people would all of a sudden stop buying german goods NO neither do i and because they have such a strong engineering sector they don’t have to worry if the uk pulled out it would be slightly different as we don’t have such a strong base to work from with such desirable high end goods.

  • #114869
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Ardun, Still better than the falls in some eurozone countries! Don’t suppose they were “adjusted” either!

  • #114871
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @dartboy.

    At the beginning of this millennium, the UK was flying high because of the success of the City, the service factor. Germany was in trouble because manufacturing had gone out of fashion and they imposed austerity measures on their population before anyone else in Europe.

    When George W Bush lost his temper with Lehman Bros in 2008 and sent the world into recession, banking became a bogey word and the old fashioned making of things came back into fashion, putting Germany back into the black.

    That’s how it stands now, the City stumbles from one disgraceful revelation to the next, and the countries that make things are powering ahead. But we live in a cyclical world, banks may start making money again, I have to say may, and selling derivatives may become fashionable again.

    It’s a lot cheaper to press a button on a screen than paying robots to make cars, even allowing for obscene bonuses.

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