Is the fiesta over ??/

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This topic contains 35 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 4 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #56921
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Is the fiesta over and when should I take my tail coat out for the next invite 2020 ? Discuss.

  • #110416
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The fiesta is most definitely over. It wasn’t a very good one either. The dotcom boom was much more stylish. At least we were left with productive assets like bandwidth capacity when the party ended. This time we are left with nothing productive at all – just a lot of rather ugly and badly built flats.

    In yesterday’s crisis budget VAT was raised to 21pc starting Monday, and from 8 to 10pc on essential items like food. We are all going to be poorer.

    Meanwhile, nothing is done to tackle the root problem like Spain’s crazy labour laws and medieval unions.

    This hangover is going to last many, many years.

  • #110480
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    shakeel, as Mark says ‘the fiesta is most definitely over’

    Latest headline of what happened is: Spain goes from ‘Boom to Bailout’ in less than a decade 🙄

  • #110780
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    shakeel, as Mark says ‘the fiesta is most definitely over’

    Latest headline of what happened is: Spain goes from ‘Boom to Bailout’ in less than a decade 🙄

  • #110481
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Isnt, every cloud has a silver linning ??? .

  • #110781
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Isnt, every cloud has a silver linning ??? .

  • #110540
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    This reflection about being Spanish and the “Spanish reality” resonates with me. Of course, the writer is a pig. But he has written some nuggets of truth, such as these:

    . . .Meanwhile, we have happiness, sun and football. A powerful cuisine which is exported and refined and which right now is the most interesting in the world. We have ill-feeling, a sense of humour, good poets and an extraordinary ability to be content and even to be happy. . .

    . . .It’s one thing to be uninhibited about who we are and quite another to think we’re Germans and that we can compete with them with our robust economy. Who would ever think that? That’s where our disgraces and failures have become all too plain to see, the disgraces and failures of our mediocre, lying bankers, of a people who want to turn four pesetas into gold and the stupidity of taking something whenever we are offered it and of a political class that is of an equally low quality and just as loutish. . .

    . . .The financial bailout is a perfect reflection of our forgotten Spanish reality… Even though it’s a good thing that with the arrival of democracy Spain should believe in itself and recover a degree of self-esteem, it turns out that we actually had delusions of grandeur that bore no relation to what, in the end, we have always been. . .

    . . .The left has governed, the right has governed and while sometimes the problem has been arrogance and others it’s been incompetence, neither the political class, nor the bankers, nor ordinary Spaniards have been up to the challenge. We have betrayed the trust of solvent countries by frittering away their help. . .

    from Iberosphere: http://iberosphere.com/2012/06/spain-bailout-forgotten-reality/6393

  • #110840
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    This reflection about being Spanish and the “Spanish reality” resonates with me. Of course, the writer is a pig. But he has written some nuggets of truth, such as these:

    . . .Meanwhile, we have happiness, sun and football. A powerful cuisine which is exported and refined and which right now is the most interesting in the world. We have ill-feeling, a sense of humour, good poets and an extraordinary ability to be content and even to be happy. . .

    . . .It’s one thing to be uninhibited about who we are and quite another to think we’re Germans and that we can compete with them with our robust economy. Who would ever think that? That’s where our disgraces and failures have become all too plain to see, the disgraces and failures of our mediocre, lying bankers, of a people who want to turn four pesetas into gold and the stupidity of taking something whenever we are offered it and of a political class that is of an equally low quality and just as loutish. . .

    . . .The financial bailout is a perfect reflection of our forgotten Spanish reality… Even though it’s a good thing that with the arrival of democracy Spain should believe in itself and recover a degree of self-esteem, it turns out that we actually had delusions of grandeur that bore no relation to what, in the end, we have always been. . .

    . . .The left has governed, the right has governed and while sometimes the problem has been arrogance and others it’s been incompetence, neither the political class, nor the bankers, nor ordinary Spaniards have been up to the challenge. We have betrayed the trust of solvent countries by frittering away their help. . .

    from Iberosphere: http://iberosphere.com/2012/06/spain-bailout-forgotten-reality/6393

  • #110854
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    “Delusions of Grandeur” is what the Spanish national character is all about, that and Machismo.
    An example is their public buildings. Huge great monoliths containing people doing very little. Expensive new airports built in the regions and now growing weeds. A network of motorways across the country that are hardly used. I could go on.

    An example of Spanish machismo is Rajoy wacking the people with more austerity to convince the EU, IMF and the bond markets he is doing something about the crisis to prevent the ‘men in black’ taking over. That for him and his government would be too much to bear.

    Not a stuff is given for the future consequences for growth and the effects on ordinary people. Nada, what matters to them is keeping the European project alive in Spain.

  • #110554
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    “Delusions of Grandeur” is what the Spanish national character is all about, that and Machismo.
    An example is their public buildings. Huge great monoliths containing people doing very little. Expensive new airports built in the regions and now growing weeds. A network of motorways across the country that are hardly used. I could go on.

    An example of Spanish machismo is Rajoy wacking the people with more austerity to convince the EU, IMF and the bond markets he is doing something about the crisis to prevent the ‘men in black’ taking over. That for him and his government would be too much to bear.

    Not a stuff is given for the future consequences for growth and the effects on ordinary people. Nada, what matters to them is keeping the European project alive in Spain.

  • #110855
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    and their own pockets lined….

  • #110555
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    and their own pockets lined….

  • #110856
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    “Delusions of Grandeur” is what the Spanish national character is all about, that and Machismo.
    An example is their public buildings. Huge great monoliths containing people doing very little. Expensive new airports built in the regions and now growing weeds. A network of motorways across the country that are hardly used. I could go on.

    An example of Spanish machismo is Rajoy wacking the people with more austerity to convince the EU, IMF and the bond markets he is doing something about the crisis to prevent the ‘men in black’ taking over. That for him and his government would be too much to bear.

    Not a stuff is given for the future consequences for growth and the effects on ordinary people. Nada, what matters to them is keeping the European project alive in Spain.

    I’d personally say that machismo is more the character of the Spanish state/regional governments and less that of the Spanish themselves these days (maybe that is what you are really saying as well). I notice that the younger generations don’t tend to “puff themselves up” like the older generations do, and I find the Spanish youth quite tolerant of being lectured to by parents who in general have received a more limited education and hold a more blinkered view of the world.

    As with Zapatero before him, incompetent is too kind a word to describe Rajoy. How precisely he thinks that increasing taxes and cutting spending is going to get Spain out of this crisis is beyond me. Not that he has much choice while Spain remains in the eurozone, but at least he should come clean and admit that the Spanish government that he was part of should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place.

  • #110556
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    “Delusions of Grandeur” is what the Spanish national character is all about, that and Machismo.
    An example is their public buildings. Huge great monoliths containing people doing very little. Expensive new airports built in the regions and now growing weeds. A network of motorways across the country that are hardly used. I could go on.

    An example of Spanish machismo is Rajoy wacking the people with more austerity to convince the EU, IMF and the bond markets he is doing something about the crisis to prevent the ‘men in black’ taking over. That for him and his government would be too much to bear.

    Not a stuff is given for the future consequences for growth and the effects on ordinary people. Nada, what matters to them is keeping the European project alive in Spain.

    I’d personally say that machismo is more the character of the Spanish state/regional governments and less that of the Spanish themselves these days (maybe that is what you are really saying as well). I notice that the younger generations don’t tend to “puff themselves up” like the older generations do, and I find the Spanish youth quite tolerant of being lectured to by parents who in general have received a more limited education and hold a more blinkered view of the world.

    As with Zapatero before him, incompetent is too kind a word to describe Rajoy. How precisely he thinks that increasing taxes and cutting spending is going to get Spain out of this crisis is beyond me. Not that he has much choice while Spain remains in the eurozone, but at least he should come clean and admit that the Spanish government that he was part of should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place.

  • #110857
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    i find it funny how machismo boils down to male chauvinism plus histrionics.

    your right Chopera, I see it less in the younger generations than in the old.

    Funnily I am seeing the reverse in norther europeans. with the younger generations being more like to react with ‘puffery’ and ‘histrionics’.
    (of course this is only based on what i see in the media and people on holiday)

  • #110557
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    i find it funny how machismo boils down to male chauvinism plus histrionics.

    your right Chopera, I see it less in the younger generations than in the old.

    Funnily I am seeing the reverse in norther europeans. with the younger generations being more like to react with ‘puffery’ and ‘histrionics’.
    (of course this is only based on what i see in the media and people on holiday)

  • #110858
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @chopera wrote:

    How precisely he thinks that increasing taxes and cutting spending is going to get Spain out of this crisis is beyond me.

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

  • #110558
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @chopera wrote:

    How precisely he thinks that increasing taxes and cutting spending is going to get Spain out of this crisis is beyond me.

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

  • #110859
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

    The unemployment problem is bigger than the debt problem. Investment into industries, plans to attract tourists, etc. is what is needed.

    Cutting public employees extra pay during Christmas will have the effect of increasing unemployment, reducing the IVA taken in, reducing the synergistic effect of secondary economies based upon consumer Christmas spending.

    Starting in September, I’d offer a government-paid 200 euro discount on air tickets for any tourist who can prove that that they will be staying in a hotel.

    I’d FORCE banks have at least 20% of their stagnant real estate holdings on the market at any time. Yes, this will lower the prices of all pisos, but the increase sales will stimulate secondary economies (reforma, etc).

    I would exploit Spain’s role in the global mobile technologies industry.

    I’d offer major industries a 3-year exemption from taxes if they move to Spain and hire a specified number of Spaniards.

    These are just a few things that could be done.

  • #110559
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

    The unemployment problem is bigger than the debt problem. Investment into industries, plans to attract tourists, etc. is what is needed.

    Cutting public employees extra pay during Christmas will have the effect of increasing unemployment, reducing the IVA taken in, reducing the synergistic effect of secondary economies based upon consumer Christmas spending.

    Starting in September, I’d offer a government-paid 200 euro discount on air tickets for any tourist who can prove that that they will be staying in a hotel.

    I’d FORCE banks have at least 20% of their stagnant real estate holdings on the market at any time. Yes, this will lower the prices of all pisos, but the increase sales will stimulate secondary economies (reforma, etc).

    I would exploit Spain’s role in the global mobile technologies industry.

    I’d offer major industries a 3-year exemption from taxes if they move to Spain and hire a specified number of Spaniards.

    These are just a few things that could be done.

  • #110861
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    @chopera wrote:
    How precisely he thinks that increasing taxes and cutting spending is going to get Spain out of this crisis is beyond me.

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

    As I mentioned in my previous post, there isn’t really an alternative while Spain remains part of the eurozone:

    @chopera wrote:


    Not that he has much choice while Spain remains in the eurozone, but at least he should come clean and admit that the Spanish government that he was part of should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place.

    My point is that the measures recently taken have nothing to do with ending La Crisis as early as possible (which is what the PP are claiming) and everything to do with keeping Spain in the eurozone.

    If this carries on then I can’t see how the euro can last. We’ve still potentially got the shock of a Greek exit to come, and the rest of the world economy seems to be slowing down as well…

  • #110561
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    @chopera wrote:
    How precisely he thinks that increasing taxes and cutting spending is going to get Spain out of this crisis is beyond me.

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

    As I mentioned in my previous post, there isn’t really an alternative while Spain remains part of the eurozone:

    @chopera wrote:


    Not that he has much choice while Spain remains in the eurozone, but at least he should come clean and admit that the Spanish government that he was part of should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place.

    My point is that the measures recently taken have nothing to do with ending La Crisis as early as possible (which is what the PP are claiming) and everything to do with keeping Spain in the eurozone.

    If this carries on then I can’t see how the euro can last. We’ve still potentially got the shock of a Greek exit to come, and the rest of the world economy seems to be slowing down as well…

  • #110862
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

    Leave the Eurozone, return to the Peseta, reschedule debts with creditors set their own interest rates. That would be less painful and give a massive boost to all market sectors, especially property and construction.

    Spanish exports would be cheap, the resulting boom would soon create enough wealth to repay creditors. Employment would return increased tax receipts and boost government coffers.

    Yet they continue to sacrifice what stares them in the face for a misguided political ideal they cannot afford.

    Incidentally ignore all the Prophets of doom saying a Eurozone break up would ‘unleash the dogs of war’. Bankers and politicians quake in their boots at the suggestion and spew out propaganda because their banks and institutions would likely struggle to stay afloat.

    That’s their bad luck for lending too much in the first place. The EU banking sector needs a massive shock so government can start on a massive ‘deep clean’ and rebuild their entire financial structures.

  • #110562
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @fuengi wrote:

    Out of curiosity, what is the alternative?

    Leave the Eurozone, return to the Peseta, reschedule debts with creditors set their own interest rates. That would be less painful and give a massive boost to all market sectors, especially property and construction.

    Spanish exports would be cheap, the resulting boom would soon create enough wealth to repay creditors. Employment would return increased tax receipts and boost government coffers.

    Yet they continue to sacrifice what stares them in the face for a misguided political ideal they cannot afford.

    Incidentally ignore all the Prophets of doom saying a Eurozone break up would ‘unleash the dogs of war’. Bankers and politicians quake in their boots at the suggestion and spew out propaganda because their banks and institutions would likely struggle to stay afloat.

    That’s their bad luck for lending too much in the first place. The EU banking sector needs a massive shock so government can start on a massive ‘deep clean’ and rebuild their entire financial structures.

  • #110863
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    According to the Telegraph and Bloomburg Finland could be the first to leave the Euro.

  • #110563
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    According to the Telegraph and Bloomburg Finland could be the first to leave the Euro.

  • #110864
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ” should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place”

    Chopera, you have lived in Spain for long enough to know that Spain joined for reason to show that Spain has shed its past i.e. Dictatorship is a modern Country & to fleece funding. The wonderful roads that we drive on is an excample.

    The truth is and I am sure that you know it. Who ever had won the election had to dance to the EU tune.

  • #110564
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ” should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place”

    Chopera, you have lived in Spain for long enough to know that Spain joined for reason to show that Spain has shed its past i.e. Dictatorship is a modern Country & to fleece funding. The wonderful roads that we drive on is an excample.

    The truth is and I am sure that you know it. Who ever had won the election had to dance to the EU tune.

  • #110865
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    At one time Spain was always boasting that they were the first country to sign up to new EU laws and treaties. Though they never bothered to implement them.

  • #110565
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    At one time Spain was always boasting that they were the first country to sign up to new EU laws and treaties. Though they never bothered to implement them.

  • #110866
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, Katy I will sign onto anything if I had no intention of complying with what I have signed on & know that I will not be accoutable & in return my bank account will start bulging giving me the opportunity to fill my pockets, build a new road/airport outside my back & front yard.

  • #110566
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes, Katy I will sign onto anything if I had no intention of complying with what I have signed on & know that I will not be accoutable & in return my bank account will start bulging giving me the opportunity to fill my pockets, build a new road/airport outside my back & front yard.

  • #110870
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    ” should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place”

    Chopera, you have lived in Spain for long enough to know that Spain joined for reason to show that Spain has shed its past i.e. Dictatorship is a modern Country & to fleece funding. The wonderful roads that we drive on is an excample.

    The truth is and I am sure that you know it. Who ever had won the election had to dance to the EU tune.

    Ideed but the buck stops with the people in charge at the time. The Tories took the blame for the 1992 ERM fiasco even though Labour also supported the ERM, and Brown took the blame for running up a huge deficit even though Cameron said he would match his spending.

    And the PP were at the helm when Spain joined the euro. From what I recall (I may be wrong) but Spain was not expected to join the euro in 2002 anyway. People were quite surprised that Aznar’s government hit the criteria so soon.

  • #110570
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    ” should never have dragged Spain into the euro in the first place”

    Chopera, you have lived in Spain for long enough to know that Spain joined for reason to show that Spain has shed its past i.e. Dictatorship is a modern Country & to fleece funding. The wonderful roads that we drive on is an excample.

    The truth is and I am sure that you know it. Who ever had won the election had to dance to the EU tune.

    Ideed but the buck stops with the people in charge at the time. The Tories took the blame for the 1992 ERM fiasco even though Labour also supported the ERM, and Brown took the blame for running up a huge deficit even though Cameron said he would match his spending.

    And the PP were at the helm when Spain joined the euro. From what I recall (I may be wrong) but Spain was not expected to join the euro in 2002 anyway. People were quite surprised that Aznar’s government hit the criteria so soon.

  • #110871
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @chopera: Agree with you. However I dont blame Aznar. He was a Tax inspector and a Spansh Tax inspector. They are not known for decesion making or the right decesion.

    In UK they take matters to Courts etc. When on balance a commercial originastion would not have done so as on balance they would lose the case. This ofcourse would not cost them as the tax payer picks the legal bill.

  • #110571
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @chopera: Agree with you. However I dont blame Aznar. He was a Tax inspector and a Spansh Tax inspector. They are not known for decesion making or the right decesion.

    In UK they take matters to Courts etc. When on balance a commercial originastion would not have done so as on balance they would lose the case. This ofcourse would not cost them as the tax payer picks the legal bill.

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