How the Spanish Regions went Bust

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This topic contains 25 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 4 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #56947
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    This link from the BBC News gives an over view of how Costa Calamity went bust. It tells half the story. The other was rampant political corruption.
    The regions collectively have to repay or refinance €32bn in 2012. You can guess the refinancing costs will be much higher given the perceived risks. It will be interesting to see how central government is going to extricate itself from this one.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18951575

  • #111126
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Catalonia looks to be the next region following Valencia and Murcia to ask for it’s own bailout as the crisis deepens.

    Have just seen that 10 Italian Cities may also ask for bailouts, contagion spreading 🙄

  • #111129
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Writing only from what I know about my area of Murcia we now have fabulous roads with roadabouts galore where once there were dirt tracks ( still virtually unused) ! Modern community centres, even in villages, and state of the art Government and entertainment buildings.
    All this with an IBI that averages less than 100e per household.
    Add in the inevitable “fingers in the pot” from the numerous Mayors et al and it doesn´t take an maths expert to figure the sums don´t add up.

  • #111130
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well at least you benefit from some good infrastructure, though whether they maintain it properly remains to be seen. It doesn’t look after itself, and costs money to maintain.

  • #111132
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Well Murcia also spent some millions of their €2.3bn debt on a completely new airport at Corvera which cannot be used and will likely never open. It interferes with NATO forward command communications and a pilot training establishment close by.
    …..And the runway has now sunk! 🙁 Couldn’t make it up.

    It was unnecessary. St Javier is a perfectly useful airport for Murcia about 12 km away and the operators there spent a million improving the runway capabilities very recently and are seeking compensation for that cost should the government close it.
    Total shambles for which the PP can conveniently place all blame on the last lot.

    It’s likely if Spain gets it’s full bailout of €300bn they will be forced into selling off all state and regional assets by the EU.

    Want to buy a useless airport anyone, going cheap?

  • #111136
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    was in Murcia capital in June 2011; couldn’t believe the place; looked like downtown Sydney, San Diego etc – fantastic futuristic city – now we know; all the money was borrowed and spent with no intention/clue as to paying it back – maybe Spain could become a colony of Gibraltar which enjoys low unemployment, zero crime, no corruption and prosperity 😉 😉 😉

  • #111138
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    Maybe Merkel will ask for Murcia as one of the bailout conditions? 😉

  • #111139
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    @chopera wrote:

    Maybe Merkel will ask for Murcia as one of the bailout conditions? 😉

    Oh please No !!!! 😯
    I have enough trouble learning Spanish.

  • #111140
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Dont worry most German’s speak English and darte I say better than the English.

  • #111141
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    shakeel, bottom of the pops again I’m afraid, saying the Germans speak English better than the English and then you said ‘darte I say’ but you made me smile 😛

    Melosine, there are some superb new roads and new road surfaces too around Malaga which put a lot of UK roads to shame, wonder where Spain got the money for them? 😉

  • #111143
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Murcia is a great European city if you ignore the sprawling ugly suburbs.
    The rest of the province is desert and intensive agriculture with a few islands of interest. It’s one of Spain’s poorest and least desirable or attractive regions.
    I do understand why they have tried desparately to hype the Murcian region up over the last decade and attract investment and development.
    I have looked hard at it myself but I cannot see there are any sane reasons to invest or even speculate..

  • #111145
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Sorry Logan, but I tend to disagree somewhat.

    Sure there are still a few typically Spanish unkempt towns but on the whole the region, considering it was always classified as the “poor relation” is now, thanks to EU funding, tidier, neater and smarter.

    Apart from a few areas north of the region they have not gone in for overbuilding due in part to the fact this is “supposedly” an impoverished farming area. The fact that all the Spanish we know own multiple properties ( city, country and coastal pads are must haves) and drive BMW´s seems to go unnoticed !!
    But good husbandry prevails and there are far less poly tunnels and the scrubland does make it look far greener than neighbouring Almeria.

    When Murcia received their grant it must have akin to winning the lottery and they did a Viv Nicholson and spent, spent,spent.
    Unfortunately although they attempted, are still attempting , to turn areas into the Marbella of Spain the boat has left the dock and they haven´t a hope in hell now.
    But the region is looking good.

  • #111146
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Well Melosine I think your avatar statement explains your post. Good luck to you and if you live in Murcia, enjoy. However realistically the clocks are now being pushed back to a time when most Spanish people rode around on donkeys and putt-putts not BMW’s bought with EU banks borrowed credit.

    In comes down to horses for courses and I’m sure given a choice of living in any other Spanish region most folks would not choose Murcia.

  • #111147
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    To most Brits Murcia could be in Outer Mongolia.
    But I am not sorry about that because we came to live in a wealthy area of Spanish Spain where there are lawns aplenty, albeit the campo is not as verdant as UK , the populace extremely friendly and helpful and building to entice foreigners has been a no go area.
    Would be interested to know where, other than Murcia City, you have actually been Logan. Because the Lorca area, for one, has obviously escaped your notice.

  • #111148
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Melonsie.
    I was going to ignore the rest of this but I feel I need to respond. I know Murcia and Almeria provinces very well. I have been in business in the region some years ago before the boom.
    I know Lorca, and it’s expanding industrial areas, Cartagena is perhaps a brighter spot and the tomato town Aguilas, Fortuna and it’s hot springs and the vast waste lands in between, Caravaca de la Cruz and it’s surrounding rice fields of Carrasparra rice.
    I did notice on my last visit some months ago that the plastic contamination of the landscape is growing and spreading very quickly.
    I’m not knocking Murcia for anything else other than as a prospective place to live and invest capital. You cannot see it in isolation to the more attractive areas of coastal southern Spain or southern Europe generally.
    Once you make that wider comparison you will see my point.

  • #111149
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @angie, Apology for letting you down. Key board error & not having spell check facility does not help.

  • #111151
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    @melosine wrote:

    Sorry Logan, but I tend to disagree somewhat.

    Sure there are still a few typically Spanish unkempt towns but on the whole the region, considering it was always classified as the “poor relation” is now, thanks to EU funding, tidier, neater and smarter.

    Apart from a few areas north of the region they have not gone in for overbuilding due in part to the fact this is “supposedly” an impoverished farming area. The fact that all the Spanish we know own multiple properties ( city, country and coastal pads are must haves) and drive BMW´s seems to go unnoticed !!
    But good husbandry prevails and there are far less poly tunnels and the scrubland does make it look far greener than neighbouring Almeria.

    When Murcia received their grant it must have akin to winning the lottery and they did a Viv Nicholson and spent, spent,spent.
    Unfortunately although they attempted, are still attempting , to turn areas into the Marbella of Spain the boat has left the dock and they haven´t a hope in hell now.
    But the region is looking good.

    For what it is worth I also think that Murcia is an attractive and underated region. Having said that I wouldn’t go so far as to recommend that anyone buys there as beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there are a lot of other factors that you need to take into account when purchasing a property

    Richard

  • #111152
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Agree beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    I compare my little “one donkey village” to the main street in an American western. Incredible for it´s ugliness whilst at the same time exerting a timeless charm.
    But where, more importantly, all builds are legal and land grab non existent. ( Well one hopes so)

    The most stunning beaches I have ever seen were in Barbados and Antigua but turn around and it was shantyville personified. The combination though made the beauty appear all the more awe inspiring. And that´s exactly the same, to some degree, in every country

    Part of the Lorca to Totana area as seen via E15 agree is the pits logan. But that´s industrial, or what is left of it, not where people generally reside.
    Lorca to Aguilas is 25km and less than 2km in total is tomato land poly tunnels. Blink of an eye and you have missed it.

  • #111153
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Agree, almost eveywhere has good and bad bits. Don’t know Murcia very well, years since I visited so I can’t comment.

    Had to laugh recently watching Place in the Sun in Antigua. The presenter was showing them a “bargain” house. The house next door looked like a crack house. Those places you just don’t risk living with the locals 😆

  • #111155
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    There are locals & locals !!!!!!!!!!! .

  • #111156
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I can only really comment on here through the eyes of an investor seeking capital returns. I don’t want to live in Spain, no thanks, nada. Each to the own choice there. Spain’s a great country with much beauty but there are other places in Europe where the living conditions and benefit are superior. That a value judgement particular to me.
    I see a region, town, development, idea, whatever and the prospective offer and ask myself only one question. How will this pay me back with a profit in an acceptable time frame? Simply as that.
    There is nothing in Murcia that I have seen either now, or in the last five years, or more importantly in the next five years which will do anything else but lose me money.
    Ask anyone who bought there.

  • #111157
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    I can only really comment on here through the eyes of an investor seeking capital returns. I don’t want to live in Spain, no thanks, nada. Each to the own choice there. Spain’s a great country with much beauty but there are other places in Europe where the living conditions and benefit are superior. That a value judgement particular to me.
    I see a region, town, development, idea, whatever and the prospective offer and ask myself only one question. How will this pay me back with a profit in an acceptable time frame? Simply as that.
    There is nothing in Murcia that I have seen either now, or in the last five years, or more importantly in the next five years which will do anything else but lose me money.
    Ask anyone who bought there.

    Logan,

    I heard that properties on the Camposol Urbanisation near Mazzaron in Murcia is a good place to buy property seeking attractive returns, especially once the Paramount theme park gets underway.

  • #111158
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    I heard that properties on the Camposol Urbanisation near Mazzaron in Murcia is a good place to buy property seeking attractive returns, especially once the Paramount theme park gets underway.

    😆 😆

  • #111159
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    😆 😆 😆

  • #111163
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @jakesuper wrote:

    Logan,

    I heard that properties on the Camposol Urbanisation near Mazzaron in Murcia is a good place to buy property seeking attractive returns, especially once the Paramount theme park gets underway.

    Why exactly?

  • #111167
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think it was a joke… very funny one too. =)

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