How did so many Brits end up in Zarra?

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This topic contains 39 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 6 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #55433
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I just read Mark’s article. What suprises me is how come 175 British people arrived in a dying village of 547 people in the middle of nowhere.

    Does anybody know how it happened?

    I guess Juan José Rubio, the former Mayor of Zarra might have thought that a golden rain arrrived at his doorsteps…

    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/buff/2010/02/17/zarra-british-colony-town-in-valencia-has-plans-for-nuclear-waste-site/

  • #96874
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    a combination of out of date tv shows, investment frenzy, exhibitions and unscrupulous sales.

  • #97018
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    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    a combination of out of date tv shows, investment frenzy, exhibitions and unscrupulous sales.

  • #97021
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Best stick to the CDS if you must buy…safest place in Spain now (more or less 😆 ) Especially marbella, just check the new plan before you put down that deposit.

  • #97022
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Candidacy for nuclear waste storage aside, I think it’s a similar story in many towns and villages in Alicante, Murcia, Almeria, Granada, and Malaga. Bizarre places like Albox (Almeria), for example. It’s just unbelievable how many Brits are living in these places.

    Places that were slowly dying out, then all of a sudden an invasion of Brits (and a few others) paying absurd amounts for land that had almost no value before they turned up.

    But many of the Brits wanted modern new homes, not the squalid dwellings in need of refurbishment that the towns had to offer. So bingo, lots of out of control building on ‘suelo rustico’. Mayor makes a fortune.

    That was back in the go-go days. Now it’s just problems. The Mayors and developers are in jail, under investigation, or scared as hell, the Brits aren’t buying, and those who already bought are struggling with 30% less income thanks to the weak pound. Lots of stories of Brits going home, British supermarkets and bars closing.

    Clearing out today I came across an old catalogue for a massive development in Murcia, but essentially in the middle of nowhere, called Camposol. Foul prefab homes were being sold for up to 200k. Now that people have woken up and reality has set in, I’d be surprised if they could sell for 50k (personally I would pay not to live there).

    Mark

  • #97026
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Candidacy for nuclear waste storage aside, I think it’s a similar story in many towns and villages in Alicante, Murcia, Almeria, Granada, and Malaga. Bizarre places like Albox (Almeria), for example. It’s just unbelievable how many Brits are living in these places.

    Places that were slowly dying out, then all of a sudden an invasion of Brits (and a few others) paying absurd amounts for land that had almost no value before they turned up.

    But many of the Brits wanted modern new homes, not the squalid dwellings in need of refurbishment that the towns had to offer. So bingo, lots of out of control building on ‘suelo rustico’. Mayor makes a fortune.

    That was back in the go-go days. Now it’s just problems. The Mayors and developers are in jail, under investigation, or scared as hell, the Brits aren’t buying, and those who already bought are struggling with 30% less income thanks to the weak pound. Lots of stories of Brits going home, British supermarkets and bars closing.

    Clearing out today I came across an old catalogue for a massive development in Murcia, but essentially in the middle of nowhere, called Camposol. Foul prefab homes were being sold for up to 200k. Now that people have woken up and reality has set in, I’d be surprised if they could sell for 50k (personally I would pay not to live there).

    Mark

    Camposol is a funny one from what I can tell, it would interesting to know exactly what went on (the situation is), it appears to be something of a mixed bag (I think various ‘sectors’ have had various problems and the sectors are somewhat different) hence I don’t think you can generalize to the extent you are doing. Personally I don’t like the look of it but I haven’t been there.

  • #97027
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @flosmichael wrote:

    What suprises me is how come 175 British people arrived in a dying village of 547 people in the middle of nowhere.

    Ignoring the illegal build side of this (you can assume these people were unaware) many people like rural, there’s villages by me that have very little in the way of services (shops closed and bus routes closing) but people buy and thats because many people don’t want to be in cities and built up areas. Hell, look at Wales 😀 .

  • #97032
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @flosmichael wrote:
    What suprises me is how come 175 British people arrived in a dying village of 547 people in the middle of nowhere.

    Ignoring the illegal build side of this (you can assume these people were unaware) many people like rural, there’s villages by me that have very little in the way of services (shops closed and bus routes closing) but people buy and thats because many people don’t want to be in cities and built up areas. Hell, look at Wales 😀 .

    I agree with you.

    But why exactly in dying village, 2 hour drive from Valencia, 2 hour drive to the beaches of Gandia-Oliva? There are so many villages between A7 and AP-7 in that area.

    Who brainwashed those people? “A Place in the Sun”? Where did “A Place in the Sun” hear about Zarra?

  • #97033
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    @mark wrote:
    Candidacy for nuclear waste storage aside, I think it’s a similar story in many towns and villages in Alicante, Murcia, Almeria, Granada, and Malaga. Bizarre places like Albox (Almeria), for example. It’s just unbelievable how many Brits are living in these places.

    Places that were slowly dying out, then all of a sudden an invasion of Brits (and a few others) paying absurd amounts for land that had almost no value before they turned up.

    But many of the Brits wanted modern new homes, not the squalid dwellings in need of refurbishment that the towns had to offer. So bingo, lots of out of control building on ‘suelo rustico’. Mayor makes a fortune.

    That was back in the go-go days. Now it’s just problems. The Mayors and developers are in jail, under investigation, or scared as hell, the Brits aren’t buying, and those who already bought are struggling with 30% less income thanks to the weak pound. Lots of stories of Brits going home, British supermarkets and bars closing.

    Clearing out today I came across an old catalogue for a massive development in Murcia, but essentially in the middle of nowhere, called Camposol. Foul prefab homes were being sold for up to 200k. Now that people have woken up and reality has set in, I’d be surprised if they could sell for 50k (personally I would pay not to live there).

    Mark

    Camposol is a funny one from what I can tell, it would interesting to know exactly what went on (the situation is), it appears to be something of a mixed bag (I think various ‘sectors’ have had various problems and the sectors are somewhat different) hence I don’t think you can generalize to the extent you are doing. Personally I don’t like the look of it but I haven’t been there.

    I visited Camposol in 2008 when driving from Mazarron to Murcia.

    I think the original idea was not bad, some predicted decent size houses with some predicted golf courses, with some predicted center with stores, with some predicted entertainement, with some predicted town-like structure.

    The only problem was that the “predicted” parts never materialised…

  • #97034
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Mary Hinge wrote:

    Hell, look at Wales 😀 .

    Hary, using the words ‘Hell’ and ‘Wales’ in the same sentence?

    That can’t be right….

  • #97037
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just a question,…The mayor is in prison,…should the promoters of that buildings go to prison?,…or that’s only for CDS corruption cases…Please answer, because it will be a good laugh to look face to face to some maniqueist points of view.
    Regards

  • #97038
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Best stick to the CDS if you must buy…safest place in Spain now (more or less 😆 ) Especially marbella, just check the new plan before you put down that deposit.

    HURRAY AND VERY TRUE!

  • #97039
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @tree wrote:

    Just a question,…The mayor is in prison,…should the promoters of that buildings go to prison?,…or that’s only for CDS corruption cases…

    I always thought that the most responsible are the people who brainwashed the buyers. The mayor took advantage of the situation but somebody brought the lambs to the butcher…

    I do not know who the promoters are, but they should named and shamed and avoided. I guess it is difficult to take them to jail but they should at least be held responsible.

  • #97043
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    To Flosmichael:
    Who bough the rural land?,…how much was the cost of that land?…Who was the promoter of that buildings?…was the owners of the lands the promoters?…I bet that’s the case,…as the owners of the lands, the promoters of the buildings and the final owners,…they never understood that was illegal?,…That’s impossible…Who paid to the mayor?

    The maniqueism is clear, I bet that this people are the promoters of their own buildings. Only happen that they are British, and they can claim that they didn’t know the laws because they don’t speak the lingo…so they would have the forum sympathize.
    But, It is any difference if the promoter sell the illegal house or keep it for his own use?…
    What if they sell that properties to another persons,…They as promoters are not guilty, just victims?,…and if as promoters they became the final owners, they are again only victims?,…and what about the costs to the environment?,…the public roads, public electricity service, the black waters pipes?,…is there any depurator to the black waters?,…who is going to pay for that?,…another case for Susan to the hands of the radical communist party(IU),…another problem to Valencia right party who try to clean all this mess,…against the campaign of all the communist and associates. Most of the illegal buildings have Spanish owners, but majority of Spaniards don’t sympathize with them,… Why should I sympathize?,…tell me.

    DON´T BUILD IN A RURAL LAND: IS ILLEGAL, that’s why is called Rural land.
    Respect the laws, and if you don’t do it, don’t victimize your own behavior…is unfair.
    Regards.

  • #97047
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @tree wrote:

    To Flosmichael:
    Who bough the rural land?,…how much was the cost of that land?…Who was the promoter of that buildings?…was the owners of the lands the promoters?…I bet that’s the case,…as the owners of the lands, the promoters of the buildings and the final owners,…they never understood that was illegal?,…That’s impossible…Who paid to the mayor?

    The maniqueism is clear, I bet that this people are the promoters of their own buildings. Only happen that they are British, and they can claim that they didn’t know the laws because they don’t speak the lingo…so they would have the forum sympathize.
    But, It is any difference if the promoter sell the illegal house or keep it for his own use?…
    What if they sell that properties to another persons,…They as promoters are not guilty, just victims?,…and if as promoters they became the final owners, they are again only victims?,…and what about the costs to the environment?,…the public roads, public electricity service, the black waters pipes?,…is there any depurator to the black waters?,…who is going to pay for that?,…another case for Susan to the hands of the radical communist party(IU),…another problem to Valencia right party who try to clean all this mess,…against the campaign of all the communist and associates. Most of the illegal buildings have Spanish owners, but majority of Spaniards don’t sympathize with them,… Why should I sympathize?,…tell me.

    DON´T BUILD IN A RURAL LAND: IS ILLEGAL, that’s why is called Rural land.
    Respect the laws, and if you don’t do it, don’t victimize your own behavior…is unfair.
    Regards.

    I do not know one thing: why doesn’t the mayor have the final word in declaring the land to be urban or rural?

    Romania is a country at the bottom of EU, but at least there the mayors are GODS in their villages/towns/cities.

    If they want to declare some land urban and buildable then nobody can go over their signature. Of course this means lots of corruption and money in the mayor’s pockets but at least buyers know that their buildings are not going to be demolished…

    Why doesn’t Spain give GOD power to the mayors?

  • #97049
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Flosmichael:
    To urbanize is not so easy, you needs a lot of papers and projects…to be done for an architect. It is not enough to build your own house but to make roads, green areas, depurative for the black waters,…it is very expensive to do in the right way…when you buy a legal house you are buying as well an urban area (roads, parks, pipes, public services,…),…that cost money.

    I know a case of illegal houses in Valencia Costa, it have been there for years (maybe started in the 60´s), small farmers started what was supposed to be buildings (perhaps 5 m^2) for the water pump and few other matters, to became small summer houses,…adding more and more m^2,…most of the owners are Spaniards and some foreigners,…and they all know their disgusting situation…although they will claim they don’t know about papers…but speaking with them in the intimacy they all know…

    There is any urban plan just rural land, there is not any system of collect the black waters, not architect projects for the buildings, as much as the owners build their houses in their own land, they obviously didn’t give easily any space for communal services, so the roads are very narrow and very dangerous for peasants, not parks or any green area,… it’s an ugly and disgusting place, although surrounded for beautiful and more expensive areas,…the cost for the environment is huge for the contamination of the underground water,…, the roads are so narrow that a fireman lorry can not work there,…if an earthquake happen I don’t know what will happen as much as there are not any calculation of structure risks, any day a house can fall and kill some persons, a child was badly car injured last summer…a horrible mess,…

    A mess that have been tried to put in order for the Valencia government,…BUT,…The communist party (IU perhaps the most radical of all left EU parties) to the hand of Susan is against the Valencia Government,…do you remneber?: “ACTION”
    Well, I am quite sure that any possible (future or present) damage to the environment or to the persons for that supported situation will go to the backs to the supporters (Susan, IU and Mrs. Autkin and the EU parliamentarians ).
    That’s a different point of view…Isn’t it?…
    Regards.
    PD-I am quite angry for the situation,…please don’t take the mood of the post as personal.

  • #97052
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @tree wrote:

    Flosmichael:
    To urbanize is not so easy, you needs a lot of papers and projects…to be done for an architect. It is not enough to build your own house but to make roads, green areas, depurative for the black waters,…it is very expensive to do in the right way…when you buy a legal house you are buying as well an urban area (roads, parks, pipes, public services,…),…that cost money.

    I perfectly agree with you.

    But in say Romania the architect will never issue a plan for rural land, the land has to be urbanizable first. When the architect starts working, the mayor had already issue the certificate of making the land urbanisable. There is no higher authority who can change this (except of course for national interest like building motorways).

    I do nto know how in Spain an architect can make a plan on land which is not buildable, that sounds quite funny…

  • #97054
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “Only happen that they are British, and they can claim that they didn’t know the laws because they don’t speak the lingo…so they would have the forum sympathize”

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse !!!!!!!!! However when lawyers have been appointed to represent their clients and they the lawyers overlook the law with total disdain, is where the problem lies.

    Besides. Where the laws, Junta/Regional are conflicting for political.personal or other gains an innocent buyer is caught.

    The lack of coordination between the planners, legislative etc. Creates this uncertainty which in turn gets exploited.

  • #97055
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Flosmichael wrote:
    “I do nto know how in Spain an architect can make a plan on land which is not buildable, that sounds quite funny…”

    …I never said that (perhaps I didn’t explain well the sentence),…the urban plans are long plans, most of them are considering the next 20 years or more time, is the future of the city. It’s not a new urban plan every single year…That’s not how things are….Everybody know what is rural or urban land for many years to came. Go to any city and ask for the urban plan, you will see the next 20 or 30 years,…is a public document.
    The city must take in charge the new infrastructures needed for the future,…calculate the demand of future water, so for example in the present change the size of the pipes or of the depurate water plant for the future demand,….
    …What I said is that the plans are made for architects (urban architects), and obviously the mayor of the city certificate the plan,…But it is made technically for urban architects…obviously the mayor give the general ideas. But the size of the new roads (calculate the circulation), the size of the pipes or other matters is a technical work…. I hope I explain it.
    Regards.

  • #97056
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hello!
    Absolutely right Shakeel,…but don’t put all the cases in the same box,…to put the victims in the same box with the “¿Who care about laws? people” is not making any favor to the victims.
    And there are victims (British or Spanish),…but there are many “¿Who care about laws? people”…the Zarra case don’t looks too much a case of victims.
    Regards

  • #97057
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    http://www.diariosur.es/rc/20100218/espana/alcaldes-detenidos-supuesta-corrupcion-201002181813.html

    List of corrupt mayors and not just the CDS, think there are a few missing though 😕

  • #97058
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    A just punishment for these Mayors would be to place them in one of the developments that is listed for demolition.

  • #97060
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Imagine the matters:
    Some persons (10) buy a Masia (rural land):
    They decide to build some houses and divide the land.
    The bricks are cheap, and the rural land is cheap as well.
    But they can not do that,….What a pity!!!….
    What about to make an urban project and present it officially to the mayor,…it’s expensive,…they all want big gardens, Why give a huge part of the land to communal services?….to make roads?,…a depurative plant?…And what about the taxes, to change a rural land to an urban land?….Wait a moment,… They are only 10 persons,…It’s all these needed?,…Come on they are only 10 persons,…Must be a solution.
    Why not ignore the laws!!!.
    They speak with the mayor,…he looks an open minded person with an open pocket.
    Every thing is right,…every body is happy,…but the land it is still rural,… the mayor could aloud the construction (a blind eye) but could not go so long,…What about the taxes for that conversion from rural to urban?, or the public infraestructures or services?…Valencia capital or Madrid are far away from here,…nothing should happen. (until the day that a neighbor speak too much).
    With the time, new neighbors are added to the 10 pioneers,…the damage to the environment is growing,…but as much people is involved in the illegal situation as much better,…more difficult will be for the authorities if the situation is discovered,…
    The illegal situation is finally discovered,… the authorities claim for the taxes (urban to rural),…the authorities build new roads, pipes, a depurative plant, but claim for the cost of the infrastructures…or the authorities for the especial environment impact of the buildings decide to demolish them (same few cases).
    But,…the owners claim that they didn’t know the laws,…and that, They don’t have the money to pay neither the taxes, neither the new infrastructures needed,…THEY ARE VICTIMS…They just want to live there (and they don’t have any other place to go).
    That’s the reality of MOST of THE CASES. (British or Spanish)…The only difference is that the Spaniards mostly don’t sympathize with that called “victims”.
    Regards.

  • #97061
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    The one thing that I cannot understand is why the Regional Governments such as Andalucia appeared to do nothing during the many years in which all this illegal building activity took place. It seems that they have only turned their attention to this issue in the last 2 years. Were they asleep on the job or simply content to let the booming construction industry lay its golden eggs. If they had taken firm action in the early years then all of this would have been brought to a head much sooner and a lot of innocent people would not have been caught up in the illegal builds scandal. It would also have avoided the environmental problems that result from unbridled property development

    As it is many innocent buyers have been mislead during this period about the status of their properties, particularly where developers duped buyers in to becoming the promoters of those properties. Having said that I am aware that some people bought land and built houses fully in the knowledge that building licences had not been issued.

    Another thing that I find quite strange is that in Almeria many properties were built without the formal approval of the Junta de Andalucia and the local council (i.e no building licence). Yet the Junta of Andalucia seems to be targeting those houses that were given building licences by the local council but which had not been endorsed by the Junta. This just seems bizarre and smacks of politics

    Richard

  • #97063
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Amongst all those that are involved. Surely the ultimate responsibility falls onto the Notary. Without his/her stamp/signature the validation of the transaction cannot take place.

    Why, would a Notary place his stamp/signature on a illegal transaction. Isn’t his job is to make sure that the transaction infront of him/her is legal & the parties concerned knows who is the buyer/seller and the price being paid for a particular transaction ????.

  • #97064
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    yes your probably right, but they have been doing it that way for decades. under the table/ turn a blind eye, etc

  • #97065
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hello shaKeel and rt21:
    This cases don’t have any relation to the construction bubble,…in CDS it was a big money and CORRUPTION case, (with big letters),…The illegal construction on inland areas is mostly another problem…is more or less the cases of let us survive,…

    The notarios certificate the sell and buy contract of rural land,…they use to read the contract before it is signed,…and I believe that the persons involved buyer and seller knew what they were dealing with….Rural land as in the papers appear to be.
    Regards.

  • #97066
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I forgot to said that in most of the cases, there is any need that the mayor of the dieing pueblo will be an open person with an open pocket,…most of that mayors are honest persons that are happy to receive new neighbors, that will mean more money from the new consumers, more money from the government (for the increase of the population), and maybe (if the new neighbors have children) they could conserve the elemental public school, and the public healthy center,…New Live To the Pueblo!!!….If the new comers are not living completely legal,…Well!!!,… Nobody is perfect!!!.
    That’s the Spain that I know,…far away from the Don Corleone and Don Vito histories many people in the forum see in all the corners.
    Regards.
    PD- In some towns (mountain towns), if you are young, have children, and decide to live there, they will give you an stone house for free….so bad the things are. (Guadalajara, Soria the smaller density of population of EU)….The words dieing pueblos is not an exaggeration is a fact,…they are dieing.

  • #97067
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Gosh I could stand 5 goodstitch to this wanker…sorry but i feel compelled to say it 😳

  • #97068
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Any way, although increased the size of the problems in this forum, that cases are not so much important,…quantitative speaking,… Most of the cases are Spaniards not British,…for the obvious reason that they fell more comfortable when breaking the rules….and perhaps the “Jose let me build in the land of my fathers!!!”,…is enough reason.
    But the solution is easy, ….all the people should :
    • Not victimize themselves,…there are not so much real victims. They should be happy to have been aloud of living in an illegal situation for years (really a privilege).
    • They should pay the taxes (urban to rural),…(as you have done when buying a legal house)
    • They should pay for the infrastructures build (as you have done buying a legal house).
    • And sorry to said that some very few cases of especial environmental impact should be demolished.
    Regards.
    PD- That is the solution proposed for the authorities, but IU & Company prefer the don’t do nothing solution,…preserve the things as they are,…and I don’t understand why you sympathize with this solution.

  • #97072
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Tree

    Lo siento, pero tienes que mejorar tu ingles para contribuir aquí. Tienes que escribir menos pero mejor, dedicando más tiempo para escribir menos palabras. Últimamente estas escribiendo mucho que no invita a leer debido al tu nivel de expresión en inglés. Mucho contenido que cuesta entender no es bueno para el fórum. No te ofendas.

    Mark

  • #97082
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @tree wrote:

    Imagine the matters:.
    They speak with the mayor,…he looks an open minded person with an open pocket.
    Every thing is right,…every body is happy,…but the land it is still rural,… the mayor could aloud the construction (a blind eye) but could not go so long,…What about the taxes for that conversion from rural to urban?, or the public infraestructures or services?
    The illegal situation is finally discovered,… the authorities claim for the taxes (urban to rural),…the authorities build new roads, pipes, a depurative plant, but claim for the cost of the infrastructures…or the authorities for the especial environment impact of the buildings decide to demolish them (same few cases).
    But,…the owners claim that they didn’t know the laws,…and that, They don’t have the money to pay neither the taxes, neither the new infrastructures needed,…THEY ARE VICTIMS…They just want to live there (and they don’t have any other place to go)..

    The mayor should be able to decide what land is rural and what land is urbanisable.
    Of course the people who want to build houses should pay for the conversion from rural to urban and that conversion is not really that expensive. Then of course the people who want to build houses pay for the urbanisation plan and for the construction (houses, roads, sidewalks) costs.
    After people who want to build houses pay, they have the houses and only GOD can decide to tear the houses down.

    This is what happens in say Romania.

    In Spain it seems that some authorities are stronger than GOD… How can that be?

  • #97085
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Tree,
    Yo entiendo todo, no te preocuparse. Sus escrituras aquí son principalmente verdaderas y estoy de acuerdo con usted.

    I don’t have a problem with his posts, I can understand them & surely Spanish input is a good thing. Yes, some of them are a bit jumbled but I have no problem with understanding where the odd words are incorrect & most of what he is saying is factually correct. It was once the developers, both Spanish & British, got in & saw the pound signs from large developments trying to use obscure rules & hoping to get away with it that the prolems started.

  • #97088
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I think his posts have been translated into google, english to spanish to english. Try it sometime. The mistakes he makes are not the ones normally made by Spaniards. However, lets not get into pretend spaniards again as I will get a Goodstitch red card 😉 😆

  • #97090
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    katy

    well you did pretty well to get away with your ”Paul Anker” comment. You were right though!

  • #97097
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    “The notarios certificate the sell and buy contract of rural land,…they use to read the contract before it is signed,…and I believe that the persons involved buyer and seller knew what they were dealing with….Rural land as in the papers appear to be. “

    Sorry, a professional person and sadly I have to include a Notary in this category, cannot rely on assumption. Further more in the Towns/Cities there are handful of Notaries. They should be well aware of the state of various developments. As a professional they have to be upto date with all matters as it affects their profession.

    I cannot beleive that a Notary deals with a developments that has say hundreds of properties & that is being constructed over a number of years is so oblivious that he does not know the legality of a particular development. This to me is negligence & incompetence.

    If, I was a Notary. I would make sure that as soon as a new promotion is launched. I would obtain all the information including people involved & their track record. As I will expect at some stage I will be Notarising there sale. This is the least I can do for the money they I will extract from people for doing nothing apaert from looking at people passport/ID cards.

    For all Spanish readers please do not tell me that they have to study very hard & takes exams etc. That is their choice of profession. I have more respect for a poorly paid nurse in a Hospital.

  • #97116
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    “The notarios certificate the sell and buy contract of rural land,…they use to read the contract before it is signed,…and I believe that the persons involved buyer and seller knew what they were dealing with….Rural land as in the papers appear to be. “

    Sorry, a professional person and sadly I have to include a Notary in this category, cannot rely on assumption. Further more in the Towns/Cities there are handful of Notaries. They should be well aware of the state of various developments. As a professional they have to be upto date with all matters as it affects their profession.

    I cannot beleive that a Notary deals with a developments that has say hundreds of properties & that is being constructed over a number of years is so oblivious that he does not know the legality of a particular development. This to me is negligence & incompetence.

    If, I was a Notary. I would make sure that as soon as a new promotion is launched. I would obtain all the information including people involved & their track record. As I will expect at some stage I will be Notarising there sale. This is the least I can do for the money they I will extract from people for doing nothing apart from looking at people passport/ID cards.

    For all Spanish readers please do not tell me that they have to study very hard & takes exams etc. That is their choice of profession. I have more respect for a poorly paid nurse in a Hospital.

    I have never been able to understand the role of the notary.

    In July 2005 I asked on this forum:

    ‘I think many of us at one time thought that the Notary was there to ensure that everything was done properly and legally but now we know that actually he is just there ….. well what is he there for exactly?’

    and:

    ‘ I’m really not sure quite what the function of the notary is other than to check your identity and witness the signatures. If there is a genuine desire to clean up some of the corruption then it seems the notary would be a logical starting point.’

    and:

    ‘In our case the notary did not point out that there was no LFO – and we did employ a translator, a member of the local council as it happens! In front of the notary we asked the developer about the missing facilities – golf course, pool and spa, beachclubhouse etc etc etc. and this question was translated into Spanish. The developer laughed (oh, how he laughed) and said (in Spanish) “If we did not advertise these things no-one would buy the houses!” Neither the notary nor the councillor turned a hair at this, but the notary was becoming quite agitated that we were overstaying our appointment so we were ushered out of the room at some speed.

    The notary would be able to nip a great deal of the corruption in the bud if they had the will – but they don’t. There’s no profit to be made in that.’

    and:

    ‘So how do they describe the bit where they leave the room and brown envelopes of money are exchanged?’

    and:

    ‘For the sake of argument, just as an example, suppose that a town (let’s imagine it is in in Murcia) has a population of say around 23,000.

    Suppose that the notary in this town witnesses the contracts for say 8,000 off-plan properties on two urbanisations – properties which will potentially increase the population of the town by 50%. (And imagine the fees he earns!)

    Now suppose that not one, not one single one, of these properties has a Habitation Certificate, Licence of First Occupation, whatever you would like to call it.

    Imagine that this is because the developers of these urbanisations have not fulfilled the requirements of their planning consent by providing the infrastructure that they promised to obtain the building licences.

    So – not one of these 8,000 or so properties can be considered to be legally habitable. Not one of them can legally obtain power or water supplies.

    Would you suppose that the notary of this town might just stop for a minute and wonder if he should consider that this might be a problem that he should possibly address?

    Or not?’

    and:

    ‘If notaries have this level of professionalism, accountability and government regulation then I feel even more strongly that the notary is the ideal starting point to put pressure on some developers to clean up their act.’

    It seems that very little has changed in the intervening 5 years, although I do find it very interesting to note that the Notaries that worked in Mazarron during the period that thousands of escrituras were signed on Mazarron Country Club and Camposol disappeared in a hurry! I must Google the name of the Notary we saw and see if he is cruising the world on his private yacht!

  • #97120
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    tilly, It seams we are on the same lines. I however have no objection to Notary or anybody charging the going rates if they have fulfilled their duties professionally & diligently.

    In relation to the overall sums involved what the Notary charges is insignificant. The main percentage of the selling price goes to the developers. If the Notary stops Notarising the transaction this percentage will not be made by the developer and this will deter the developers from defrauding, misrepresenting etc.

  • #97132
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    To Mark:
    Thanks for the advice..
    I know that the forum is not the best place to practice my English.
    I am sorry, I will try to write a better English.

    To gus-lopez:
    Thank you gus-lopez, but I should make a better English home work, and not give an interpreter (home work) to the members of the forum.

    Regards.

  • #97133
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I believe is fair to have the opportunity to replay Katy insults and attacks to my pretender identity:

    Katy wrote: (Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:21 pm)
    “Gosh I could stand 5 goodstitch to this wanker…sorry but i feel compelled to say it”

    It is much better to have a “self-service” of different ideas and to take different points of view for different subjects,…than only have a monolithic point of view.

    From the very beginning, you dislike any new entry to the forum…any different idea.
    Only the fools likes to read always their same ideas (over and over again),…to reaffirm in their own stupidity.
    PD-Thanks for to teach me so many slang words.

    Katy wrote: (Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:13 pm)
    “I think his posts have been translated into google, english to spanish to english. The mistakes he makes are not the ones normally made by Spaniards. However, lets not get into pretend spaniards again as I will get a Goodstitch red card. ”

    So sometimes I am supposed to be Frank, and English old member of the forum (I would like to know him),… now I am using Google translator,…and always I am just pretending to be Spaniard…Why I should pretend to hide my identity?…I believe you should stop the abuse.
    PD- I make my own mistakes, it is not Google fault.

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