Help re Escritura

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This topic contains 30 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 8 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #53592
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi I’m hoping someone will be able to offer us some advise. To cut a very long story short. We had thought we sold our apartment in 2006, we had a completion date and went over to sign with our lawyer but through many delays the sale eventually fell through. We now have a problem with our lawyers which has been going on for a year. When we went over to sign, we gave our lawyers power of attourney as we did not want to keep booking flights for the completion date that kept being moved. We also gave them our original excritura and keys. They are now literaaly holding us ransom as they are saying we owe then for a 50% conveyancing fee on a sale that did not happen. At the time when they requested a 50% fee up front we said we were not prepared to pay anything up front and came to the agreement that they would collect this from the reservation deposit. They never collected the reservation deposit even though it had been deposited and was available, because they though the deal would complete quickly. We did not sign anything to agree to a 50% up front payment.

    How can we get them to release our keys and documents? If we walk away and change the locks, would we be able to sell our apartnment with out the escritura?

    Any thoughts or advise would be appreciated.

  • #77906
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Change the locks and go to the notary in which you origianlly signed to get a new copy. You must revoke the power of attorney as well and very quickly as they have authority over your property as well.

    Take your id and use another lawyer if need to help out.

  • #77706
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Change the locks and go to the notary in which you origianlly signed to get a new copy. You must revoke the power of attorney as well and very quickly as they have authority over your property as well.

    Take your id and use another lawyer if need to help out.

  • #77909
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez many thanks for your quick response.

    Do you know if there is a time limit on power of attourney?

  • #77709
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Inez many thanks for your quick response.

    Do you know if there is a time limit on power of attourney?

  • #77911
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Depends upon the POA. It should state if it is open ended or has an expiry date. The sensible thing is always to include an expiry date on a POA.

    Your lawyers sound like real jerks. But it also sounds like they might have spent some time on your case. You might consider offering them a fee to compensate for this, if it helps you avoid the palaver of changing locks and getting a new escritura (then get rid of them). But if they dig their heels in and insist on 50% then change the locks, get a new escritura, and a new lawyer. Just one thing, though, make sure there is nothing on paper that commits you to paying them 50% even if the sale doesn’t go through.

    Mark

  • #77711
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Depends upon the POA. It should state if it is open ended or has an expiry date. The sensible thing is always to include an expiry date on a POA.

    Your lawyers sound like real jerks. But it also sounds like they might have spent some time on your case. You might consider offering them a fee to compensate for this, if it helps you avoid the palaver of changing locks and getting a new escritura (then get rid of them). But if they dig their heels in and insist on 50% then change the locks, get a new escritura, and a new lawyer. Just one thing, though, make sure there is nothing on paper that commits you to paying them 50% even if the sale doesn’t go through.

    Mark

  • #77914
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We have offered them a settlement payment of 500.00 euros to cover costs for the notary and power of attourney which they have billed us separately, but they have turned this down and they are insisting on the full deposit payment.

    We are really fed up and just want to end this, it is bad enough have an apartment that we don’t seem to be able to sell, let alone having to pay fees for a non sale!

  • #77714
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We have offered them a settlement payment of 500.00 euros to cover costs for the notary and power of attourney which they have billed us separately, but they have turned this down and they are insisting on the full deposit payment.

    We are really fed up and just want to end this, it is bad enough have an apartment that we don’t seem to be able to sell, let alone having to pay fees for a non sale!

  • #77916
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Welcome to Spain

  • #77716
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Welcome to Spain

  • #77917
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Sign of the times and wont help business. Its getting very dog eat dog for survival – I have been speaking to quite a few people over this lately as there some very underhand ‘business techniques’ being employed!

  • #77717
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Sign of the times and wont help business. Its getting very dog eat dog for survival – I have been speaking to quite a few people over this lately as there some very underhand ‘business techniques’ being employed!

  • #77920
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Inez wrote:
    Sign of the times and wont help business. Its getting very dog eat dog for survival – I have been speaking to quite a few people over this lately as there some very underhand ‘business techniques’ being employed!

    Nothing has changed this has always been the case, except now there will be more scams to pay the rent at the end of the month!!!!!

  • #77720
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant
    Inez wrote:
    Sign of the times and wont help business. Its getting very dog eat dog for survival – I have been speaking to quite a few people over this lately as there some very underhand ‘business techniques’ being employed!

    Nothing has changed this has always been the case, except now there will be more scams to pay the rent at the end of the month!!!!!

  • #77924
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Yes I agree it has always been bad but in the boom more ‘nice’ people came out and were able to make money and live. Now the nice ones arent up to hard sales and scam techniques, so leave the country and go back to from whence they came, leaving mostly the sharks.

  • #77724
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    Yes I agree it has always been bad but in the boom more ‘nice’ people came out and were able to make money and live. Now the nice ones arent up to hard sales and scam techniques, so leave the country and go back to from whence they came, leaving mostly the sharks.

  • #77930
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jackie, what do you actually have in writing agreed between you and your lawyers regarding costs, terms, your instructions etc? Or was it all done verbally?

  • #77730
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jackie, what do you actually have in writing agreed between you and your lawyers regarding costs, terms, your instructions etc? Or was it all done verbally?

  • #77932
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We just have e-mails but I have kept copies of them and they do state that we would not pay the fees up front.

    But they are stating that it is their Company’s policy to receive an up front deposit. The fact that we never agreed to pay it, nor did they receive it doesn’t seem to matter. 😡

  • #77732
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We just have e-mails but I have kept copies of them and they do state that we would not pay the fees up front.

    But they are stating that it is their Company’s policy to receive an up front deposit. The fact that we never agreed to pay it, nor did they receive it doesn’t seem to matter. 😡

  • #77943
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jackie, did you sign with them some letter instructing them in which payment details were included ? Did you send or receive any emails from them stating how the lagal fees would be paid ?

    How much are they asking from you, 50% of the legl fees, more, less ?

  • #77743
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jackie, did you sign with them some letter instructing them in which payment details were included ? Did you send or receive any emails from them stating how the lagal fees would be paid ?

    How much are they asking from you, 50% of the legl fees, more, less ?

  • #77955
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We did not agree to pay any up front fee, they are requesting a 50% fee based on 1.25% of the sale value. We have e-mails that state we were not prepared to pay an upfront fee, but they could apply this to the reservation deposit when they obtained it. We were told by our estate agent that the deposit was available for them to collect , but our lawyers didn’t collect it as they thought the sale would go through quickly.

    We have since severed ties with the original estate agent and have relisted it with another agent at a reduced price. The payment they are requesting is based on the original price.

    We have said we would pay for costs they have incurred but not the upfront fee,as we didn’t agree to pay this and they did not obtain our reservation deposit. They are now refusing to release our keys, escritura and Power of Attourney. We think we put an end date on the power of attourney but stupidly can’t remember when it expires! Would it be difficult to get a copy or find this out?

  • #77755
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    We did not agree to pay any up front fee, they are requesting a 50% fee based on 1.25% of the sale value. We have e-mails that state we were not prepared to pay an upfront fee, but they could apply this to the reservation deposit when they obtained it. We were told by our estate agent that the deposit was available for them to collect , but our lawyers didn’t collect it as they thought the sale would go through quickly.

    We have since severed ties with the original estate agent and have relisted it with another agent at a reduced price. The payment they are requesting is based on the original price.

    We have said we would pay for costs they have incurred but not the upfront fee,as we didn’t agree to pay this and they did not obtain our reservation deposit. They are now refusing to release our keys, escritura and Power of Attourney. We think we put an end date on the power of attourney but stupidly can’t remember when it expires! Would it be difficult to get a copy or find this out?

  • #77959
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    They are now refusing to release our keys, escritura and Power of Attourney.

    Isn’t that called blackmail? 👿

  • #77759
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    They are now refusing to release our keys, escritura and Power of Attourney.

    Isn’t that called blackmail? 👿

  • #77964
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    In legal terms its a lien, a charge over property of which you have used for the work, you are entitled to withhold it until full payment ie a garage keeping your car until you pay the bill for the work you have had done!

    Irrelevant they dont really have a case for it considering the sale was not completed and therfore they didnt have to do half of the work,but it happens a lot out here, some lawyers do get nasty.

  • #77764
    Profile photo of Inez
    Inez
    Participant

    In legal terms its a lien, a charge over property of which you have used for the work, you are entitled to withhold it until full payment ie a garage keeping your car until you pay the bill for the work you have had done!

    Irrelevant they dont really have a case for it considering the sale was not completed and therfore they didnt have to do half of the work,but it happens a lot out here, some lawyers do get nasty.

  • #77981
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Jackie wrote:

    We did not agree to pay any up front fee, they are requesting a 50% fee based on 1.25% of the sale value. We have e-mails that state we were not prepared to pay an upfront fee, but they could apply this to the reservation deposit when they obtained it. We were told by our estate agent that the deposit was available for them to collect , but our lawyers didn’t collect it as they thought the sale would go through quickly.

    We have since severed ties with the original estate agent and have relisted it with another agent at a reduced price. The payment they are requesting is based on the original price.

    We have said we would pay for costs they have incurred but not the upfront fee,as we didn’t agree to pay this and they did not obtain our reservation deposit. They are now refusing to release our keys, escritura and Power of Attourney. We think we put an end date on the power of attourney but stupidly can’t remember when it expires! Would it be difficult to get a copy or find this out?

    If what you claim is exact and you haven’t signed an instruction letter with them or acknowledged receipt of an email or fax stating how the fees are to be paid they do not stand a chance against you and cannot claim you any money other than the POA fees and the Notary fees (both).

    They certainly cannot claim 1.25%, don’t worry they would lose and they know it.

    However, in these cases as a general rule clients always sign instruction letters with law firms and normally it is arranged that 50% of our legal fee is paid upfront and the balance upon completion.

    But if you haven’t signed this nor received any communication on similar terms then you only owe them the POA fees and Notary fees. If you have received a communication in this sense even if you did not sign it and you handed them over the keuys it is understood you accepted the payment fees proposal. Which is why i insist that you are ok as long as your account is accurate.

    You can always request copies at the notary of the original title deed they have and changing locks is an option. I would try to settle this with them amicably and if not report them to the Colegio de Abogados of which they are members.

  • #77786
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Jackie wrote:

    We did not agree to pay any up front fee, they are requesting a 50% fee based on 1.25% of the sale value. We have e-mails that state we were not prepared to pay an upfront fee, but they could apply this to the reservation deposit when they obtained it. We were told by our estate agent that the deposit was available for them to collect , but our lawyers didn’t collect it as they thought the sale would go through quickly.

    We have since severed ties with the original estate agent and have relisted it with another agent at a reduced price. The payment they are requesting is based on the original price.

    We have said we would pay for costs they have incurred but not the upfront fee,as we didn’t agree to pay this and they did not obtain our reservation deposit. They are now refusing to release our keys, escritura and Power of Attourney. We think we put an end date on the power of attourney but stupidly can’t remember when it expires! Would it be difficult to get a copy or find this out?

    If what you claim is exact and you haven’t signed an instruction letter with them or acknowledged receipt of an email or fax stating how the fees are to be paid they do not stand a chance against you and cannot claim you any money other than the POA fees and the Notary fees (both).

    They certainly cannot claim 1.25%, don’t worry they would lose and they know it.

    However, in these cases as a general rule clients always sign instruction letters with law firms and normally it is arranged that 50% of our legal fee is paid upfront and the balance upon completion.

    But if you haven’t signed this nor received any communication on similar terms then you only owe them the POA fees and Notary fees. If you have received a communication in this sense even if you did not sign it and you handed them over the keuys it is understood you accepted the payment fees proposal. Which is why i insist that you are ok as long as your account is accurate.

    You can always request copies at the notary of the original title deed they have and changing locks is an option. I would try to settle this with them amicably and if not report them to the Colegio de Abogados of which they are members.

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