Handing keys back

LoadingFavourite

This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 4 years, 6 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #56803
    Profile photo of tt4079
    tt4079
    Participant

    I have a property in the Costa Blanca which cost me €180k. When I bought the property I made changes including converting the garage into a self-contained apartment so the property was worth more then the €180k paid. The mortgage has been paid on time every time and the outstanding mortgage owed is €90k. Now circumstances have changed I need to get rid of the property. I put the property on the market but ended up with squatters. I managed to have them removed at a huge expense only to find out this morning I now have gypsies living in the property. I am seriously considering handing back the keys. What is worrying me is I have a property in Gran Canaria. Could they come after me for that property? What if I transferred the GC property to my daughter? I am desperate for some advice on how I can hand the property back. I am in poor health and just cannot deal with this any longer. What was meant to be a dream holiday home has turned in a nightmare from hell.

    Thank you for reading

  • #108539
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sorry to read about your situation. Nightmare from hell sounds about right.

    I’ll bring this to the attention to some of the lawyers who watch the forum.

    In the meantime I hate to tell you but you can’t simply hand back the keys as in Spain you personally liable for your mortgage, in theory at least. Will they pursue you? Who knows. It can depend on the bank; Some are more organised than others.

    How long did it take, and how much did it cost to get the squatters out, if you don’t mind me asking?

    Mark

  • #108540
    Profile photo of tt4079
    tt4079
    Participant

    Hi Mark

    All in all it cost me over £6k for legal fees, flights and accommodation plus until I got the courts permission I had to leave the electricity on which run into over a couple of thousand euros. To sell I would need to spend more money as the previous squatters took everything. Even if I had the money to go through it again I don’t have the money to do the place up to sell. I am paying for a property I have even seen for 3 years though I have ensured I have never been late with a payment and paid in full.

    Would “Dación en Pago” be an option open to me?

    Very grateful for any advice and help you can give.

  • #108541
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @tt4079 wrote:

    Hi Mark

    All in all it cost me over £6k for legal fees, flights and accommodation plus until I got the courts permission I had to leave the electricity on which run into over a couple of thousand euros. To sell I would need to spend more money as the previous squatters took everything. Even if I had the money to go through it again I don’t have the money to do the place up to sell. I am paying for a property I have even seen for 3 years though I have ensured I have never been late with a payment and paid in full.

    Would “Dación en Pago” be an option open to me?

    Very grateful for any advice and help you can give.

    Just want to add my sympathy and I hope someone on here can help you out. Where exactly is this property? I might be able to assist you with some local manpower to run some errands or come with good advice.

  • #108543
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    tt4079

    Sorry to hear about your position.

    What is the market value of the property? You have mentioned you have a mortgage of 90k and you are prepared to give back the apartment to the bank, so that is effectively selling it at 90k!!. My guess from your information is that the property is worth more than 90k.

    What is to stop you selling it for 90k Euros or 80k Euros?? Everything (and I mean everything) sells for a price. The squatters are irrelevant and so is the lack of fixtures in the apartment to selling if the price is low enough.

    You then walk away with the apartment legally sold.

    So what were you recently advertising as the price of the property?

  • #108544
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    One other point, which is rather too late for you but may help others!

    My personal view, from experiences of (Spanish) family members and many posts here are and elsewhere is that using Spanish legal representatives to work on your behalf, for example in this situation involving squatters, is an utter waste of money and time. Moreover the process takes months or years and you just end up wasting more money and destroying your health.

    If you had approached the squatters and offered them say 4k Euros to leave I am sure they would have taken the money and left immediately, you then secure the property to ensure it’s a lot more difficult to enter. They would have then moved onto a new place to squat.

  • #108545
    Profile photo of tt4079
    tt4079
    Participant

    @jp1 wrote:

    tt4079

    Sorry to hear about your position.

    What is the market value of the property? You have mentioned you have a mortgage of 90k and you are prepared to give back the apartment to the bank, so that is effectively selling it at 90k!!. My guess from your information is that the property is worth more than 90k.

    What is to stop you selling it for 90k Euros or 80k Euros?? Everything (and I mean everything) sells for a price. The squatters are irrelevant and so is the lack of fixtures in the apartment to selling if the price is low enough.

    You then walk away with the apartment legally sold.

    So what were you recently advertising as the price of the property?

    The property has been on the market for €95 but had no interest in the property. I cannot afford to let the property go for less as I do not have the income or savings I once had. Due to a serious back problem I am now surviving on disability. The main reason that has stopped me moving to Spain.

  • #108546
    Profile photo of tt4079
    tt4079
    Participant

    @Ardun wrote:

    @tt4079 wrote:
    Hi Mark

    All in all it cost me over £6k for legal fees, flights and accommodation plus until I got the courts permission I had to leave the electricity on which run into over a couple of thousand euros. To sell I would need to spend more money as the previous squatters took everything. Even if I had the money to go through it again I don’t have the money to do the place up to sell. I am paying for a property I have even seen for 3 years though I have ensured I have never been late with a payment and paid in full.

    Would “Dación en Pago” be an option open to me?

    Very grateful for any advice and help you can give.

    Just want to add my sympathy and I hope someone on here can help you out. Where exactly is this property? I might be able to assist you with some local manpower to run some errands or come with good advice.

    Thank you for replying. The property is in Rojales about midway between Alicante and Murcia.

  • #108609
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @tt4079 wrote:

    @Ardun wrote:
    @tt4079 wrote:
    Hi Mark

    All in all it cost me over £6k for legal fees, flights and accommodation plus until I got the courts permission I had to leave the electricity on which run into over a couple of thousand euros. To sell I would need to spend more money as the previous squatters took everything. Even if I had the money to go through it again I don’t have the money to do the place up to sell. I am paying for a property I have even seen for 3 years though I have ensured I have never been late with a payment and paid in full.

    Would “Dación en Pago” be an option open to me?

    Very grateful for any advice and help you can give.

    Just want to add my sympathy and I hope someone on here can help you out. Where exactly is this property? I might be able to assist you with some local manpower to run some errands or come with good advice.

    Thank you for replying. The property is in Rojales about midway between Alicante and Murcia.

    I worked and lived in Torrevieja earlier so I know the area. If you need help give me a PM and I’ll try and do my best.

  • #108798
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In the situation posed, the choice of “dación en pago” is the most advisable. however, before any decision is essential to evaluate the risks of liability to the Bank. It is necessary to negotiate in detail with the Bank and to exclude the extension of liability to other properties or assets that may exist in Spain or UK. It is an obvious problem not having peaceful possession of the property, but should not be impossible.
    Expert advice is required.

  • #108806
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Response by email from a lawyer on this question:

    I think the only safe way of giving the keys back to the bank and forget about the possible implications of that is settling an agreement “by amicable means” with the said bank though the way known as “dación en pago”. We are dealing with many British clients at the moment affected by this problem and in most of the cases the bank are willing to accept the dación en pago to avoid the hassle and the considerable costs of having to sue the clients in both Spain and the UK (following a long procedure to foreclose the mortgage in Spain and later one in the UK to make the decision valid there). The main problem with regard to this client is that he owns another property in Spain and the first thing that the bank in Spain will do is investigating his properties/ solvency.

    The dación en pago (pro-soluto payment) normally work with the banks when they find difficult to get the client’s money (either the client has no money or it is in the UK). If the banks find out that there are more properties in Spain the most likely thing is that they will appoint one of their lawyers to foreclose the mortgage and repossess not only the property in Costa Blanca but also the one in the Canary Islands. If he is willing to put the other property in his sister’s name he would bear in mind two important things:

    a.- If he transfer the property by means of purchase deeds they will have to pay Transfer tax (equivalent to your Stamp Duty) and Capital gains. If he gives the property to his daughter they will have to bear in mind the Gift’s tax.

    b.- The bank could start a criminal procedure against him for “punishable insolvency” (art. 257 Spanish Criminal Code).

    He would have to bear in mind also that these deeds (above all the Gift deeds) could be cancelled by a Judge according to the following articles of the Spanish Civil Code:
    Artículo 1291.

    Son rescindibles:

    1. Los contratos que pudieren celebrar los tutores sin autorización judicial, siempre que las personas a quienes representan hayan sufrido lesión en más de la cuarta parte del valor de las cosas que hubiesen sido objeto de aquéllos.

    2. Los celebrados en representación de los ausentes, siempre que éstos hayan sufrido la lesión a que se refiere el número anterior.

    3. Los celebrados en fraude de acreedores, cuando éstos no puedan de otro modo cobrar lo que se les deba.

    4. Los contratos que se refieran a cosas litigiosas, cuando hubiesen sido celebrados por el demandado sin conocimiento y aprobación de las partes litigantes o de la Autoridad judicial competente.

    5. Cualesquiera otros en que especialmente lo determine la Ley.

    Artículo 1297.

    Se presumen celebrados en fraude de acreedores todos aquellos contratos por virtud de los cuales el deudor enajenare bienes a título gratuito.

    También se presumen fraudulentas las enajenaciones a título oneroso, hechas por aquellas personas contra las cuales se hubiese pronunciado antes sentencia condenatoria en cualquier instancia o expedido mandamiento de embargo de bienes.

    To summarise: He should try reaching an agreement with the bank rather than giving them the keys and forget about everything as the implications of that could be even more stressing than the situation he is suffering at the moment with regard to the squatters (as the bank could not only seize his properties in Spain but as well in the UK)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.