GREECE

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 5 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #56372
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Doesn’t this country’s problems drag on interminably? Just about everyone says it’s only a matter of time for Greece to default, or, they will never repay their debt, or, half their debt will be wiped off, and/or they will leave the Euro etc etc

    All this is doing is de-stabilize the whole of the Eurozone whilst it rumbles on with patching this up or that up, but nothing seems permanent.

    The Brussels gravy train gang, the ECB, Merkel and Sarkozy should kick them out, things might start to improve in the EU then despite the other countries’ problems.

    Personally, I hope the UK tells the EU to stuff themselves, in a referendum hopefully, and stops giving money we need to those that have milked their economies, and then close the tax loopholes for Corporate and individual billionaires in the UK. 😡

    Monday rant over 😆

  • #106045
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Good rant.

    Greece will default sooner or later. It’s just a matter of time. That or the Germans decide to bail them out for ever, which I can’t see happening.

    Why is it taking so long? Because the politicians haven’t got a spine between them was my first thought. But I read in The Economist today that maybe the Germans are dragging it out on purpose to punish the Greeks. Who knows.

  • #105845
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Good rant.

    Greece will default sooner or later. It’s just a matter of time. That or the Germans decide to bail them out for ever, which I can’t see happening.

    Why is it taking so long? Because the politicians haven’t got a spine between them was my first thought. But I read in The Economist today that maybe the Germans are dragging it out on purpose to punish the Greeks. Who knows.

  • #106046
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can see why the Germans wants to drag it out to make sure that they or others pigs countries do not use Germany as a cash machine & changes takes place which will disturb the status quo.

  • #105846
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I can see why the Germans wants to drag it out to make sure that they or others pigs countries do not use Germany as a cash machine & changes takes place which will disturb the status quo.

  • #106047
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It has been known for quite some time that Greece would default. The bond markets already made that call a couple of years ago.

    From what I understand, there are a number of factors at work here but the biggest issue, as has been stated, is political indecision.

    Some of this is no doubt down to incompetent and/or spineless politicians. There is no doubt also that the cumbersome and inefficient EU structure is not helping the decision making process.

    Whilst it is not mentioned a lot in the mainstream press, I believe the other major aspect is that the decision makers are deliberately stalling whilst they try to work out what to do and what the consequenses of any default will be.

    It is all very easy to bang the populist drum, as Katy has done 8), and say ‘get tough on the Greeks’, etc, etc but the fact is that a lot of large financial institutions, both inside and outside the Eurozone, are exposed to this debt. Without careful management a default could trigger a crisis along the lines of the one we witnessed and just about came through a few years ago. There is also the justified fear that, once Greece is sent packing, the markets will turn their guns to Portugal… then Ireland… then Italy… then Spain… by which time we’ll all be in the poorhouse.

    Now I’m not in any way defending the politicians. It was they, both in and out of the Eurozone, who got us into this mess with the help of their banker chums. What I am saying is that there are no easy answers here and lots of potential dangers. I can understand their caution.

  • #105847
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    It has been known for quite some time that Greece would default. The bond markets already made that call a couple of years ago.

    From what I understand, there are a number of factors at work here but the biggest issue, as has been stated, is political indecision.

    Some of this is no doubt down to incompetent and/or spineless politicians. There is no doubt also that the cumbersome and inefficient EU structure is not helping the decision making process.

    Whilst it is not mentioned a lot in the mainstream press, I believe the other major aspect is that the decision makers are deliberately stalling whilst they try to work out what to do and what the consequenses of any default will be.

    It is all very easy to bang the populist drum, as Katy has done 8), and say ‘get tough on the Greeks’, etc, etc but the fact is that a lot of large financial institutions, both inside and outside the Eurozone, are exposed to this debt. Without careful management a default could trigger a crisis along the lines of the one we witnessed and just about came through a few years ago. There is also the justified fear that, once Greece is sent packing, the markets will turn their guns to Portugal… then Ireland… then Italy… then Spain… by which time we’ll all be in the poorhouse.

    Now I’m not in any way defending the politicians. It was they, both in and out of the Eurozone, who got us into this mess with the help of their banker chums. What I am saying is that there are no easy answers here and lots of potential dangers. I can understand their caution.

  • #106048
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    It will take down Germany as well, if Greece falls it will take down everybody and kiss the Euro goodbye. I remember a time when Germany’s economy was a mess, a sudden removal of its export markets and over valuation of its currency will soon bring its economy back into line with the ‘bad’ southern states. But, I’d expect devaluation will help Spain.

    Worse case the whole EU may collapse but I think that’s Euro-sceptic wishful thinking.

    Hoping for a quick resolution is praying for disaster, they are dragging it out to reduce the damage; banks recapitalise, reduce the overall debt. I think its now inevitable with the world entering another recession, negative growth makes the debt rise.

  • #105848
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    It will take down Germany as well, if Greece falls it will take down everybody and kiss the Euro goodbye. I remember a time when Germany’s economy was a mess, a sudden removal of its export markets and over valuation of its currency will soon bring its economy back into line with the ‘bad’ southern states. But, I’d expect devaluation will help Spain.

    Worse case the whole EU may collapse but I think that’s Euro-sceptic wishful thinking.

    Hoping for a quick resolution is praying for disaster, they are dragging it out to reduce the damage; banks recapitalise, reduce the overall debt. I think its now inevitable with the world entering another recession, negative growth makes the debt rise.

  • #106049
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    If you need one single reason to explain why the Eurozone will not work the present crisis is a perfect example.
    EU Politicians are incapable of making decisions because the system as it stands is too unwieldy, clumsy and not fit for purpose.
    The EU made a headlong dash for monetary union without thinking through the consequences. They never created any contingency plans for a downturn. They cared less for smaller economies being hamstrung and tied to an economic plan designed to suit the vast industrial complex of Germany.
    The architects of this Frankenstein monster, Jacques Delors and Helmut Cole to name but two, were lofty politicians with a vision. They were not economists and overruled the siren voices warning them it could not work. Like bankers who invested in derivatives they simply had no understanding of the implications of what they were doing. By removing sovereign nations ability to run their own economies they created a form of dependence upon their own major economies.
    Now when these dependent states need the help that was entirely predictable and inevitable they prevaricate and argue and cannot get all their ducks in a row.
    The European Union has ruined Europe and now they are doing their very best to ruin the rest of the world.

  • #105849
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    If you need one single reason to explain why the Eurozone will not work the present crisis is a perfect example.
    EU Politicians are incapable of making decisions because the system as it stands is too unwieldy, clumsy and not fit for purpose.
    The EU made a headlong dash for monetary union without thinking through the consequences. They never created any contingency plans for a downturn. They cared less for smaller economies being hamstrung and tied to an economic plan designed to suit the vast industrial complex of Germany.
    The architects of this Frankenstein monster, Jacques Delors and Helmut Cole to name but two, were lofty politicians with a vision. They were not economists and overruled the siren voices warning them it could not work. Like bankers who invested in derivatives they simply had no understanding of the implications of what they were doing. By removing sovereign nations ability to run their own economies they created a form of dependence upon their own major economies.
    Now when these dependent states need the help that was entirely predictable and inevitable they prevaricate and argue and cannot get all their ducks in a row.
    The European Union has ruined Europe and now they are doing their very best to ruin the rest of the world.

  • #106050
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    although the whole euro idea was a bad one and never going to work unless everyone was governed from brussels the main reason we are in such a mess is because the spineless politicians never nipped it in the bud when it started going wrong,the rules and guides were in place and austerity mesures should have been insisted on when they were breeched but the rules were bent instead of upheld.the rule breakers went on spending and have arrived where anyone borrowing and spending to much will end up in the s–t

  • #105850
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    although the whole euro idea was a bad one and never going to work unless everyone was governed from brussels the main reason we are in such a mess is because the spineless politicians never nipped it in the bud when it started going wrong,the rules and guides were in place and austerity mesures should have been insisted on when they were breeched but the rules were bent instead of upheld.the rule breakers went on spending and have arrived where anyone borrowing and spending to much will end up in the s–t

  • #106054
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    Bearing in mind that I know little of the wider aspects of the economic debate, I was reading a comment by George Soros in the Times yesterday in relation to the Occupy Wall Street protests and European situation, but it was the succinct comment about banks that hit home for me:

    George Soros said…

    “Actually, I can understand [the protesters’] sentiment, frankly,” he said.

    “And at the same time the decision not to inject capital into the banks, but to effectively relieve them of their bad assets and then allow them to earn their way out of a hole leaves the banks bumper profits and then allows them to pay bumper bonuses…

    Soros recently warned that a global economic depression may be in the cards, citing that Europe is on the brink of collapse, unless immediate action is undertaken.

    According to Forbes, Soros wrote: “Three bold steps are needed. First, the governments of the Eurozone must agree in principle on a new treaty creating a common treasury for the Eurozone. In the meantime, the major banks must be put under the direction of the European Central Bank in exchange for a temporary guarantee and permanent recapitalization. Third, the ECB would enable countries such as Italy and Spain temporarily to refinance their debt at a very low cost.”

    Anyway it sounds like he has the right idea about Europe to me, but it was that comment about the relieving of bad assets, not having to earn their way out, and presenting the bankers more bumper profits and bonuses as an erroneous and disgusting result, that just made my stomach turn really. Don’t we all wish we could have been relieved of our bad assets or troubles at one time or another, and left to go back on our merry way not only without consequence but at a huge profit and advantage.

    Even I can figure out that it is we – the taxpayer – who is paying for all of that. Unbelievable really, but nice to see it put clearly in just two lines.

    B*****D’s really!

  • #105854
    Profile photo of Chris McCarthy
    Chris McCarthy
    Participant

    Bearing in mind that I know little of the wider aspects of the economic debate, I was reading a comment by George Soros in the Times yesterday in relation to the Occupy Wall Street protests and European situation, but it was the succinct comment about banks that hit home for me:

    George Soros said…

    “Actually, I can understand [the protesters’] sentiment, frankly,” he said.

    “And at the same time the decision not to inject capital into the banks, but to effectively relieve them of their bad assets and then allow them to earn their way out of a hole leaves the banks bumper profits and then allows them to pay bumper bonuses…

    Soros recently warned that a global economic depression may be in the cards, citing that Europe is on the brink of collapse, unless immediate action is undertaken.

    According to Forbes, Soros wrote: “Three bold steps are needed. First, the governments of the Eurozone must agree in principle on a new treaty creating a common treasury for the Eurozone. In the meantime, the major banks must be put under the direction of the European Central Bank in exchange for a temporary guarantee and permanent recapitalization. Third, the ECB would enable countries such as Italy and Spain temporarily to refinance their debt at a very low cost.”

    Anyway it sounds like he has the right idea about Europe to me, but it was that comment about the relieving of bad assets, not having to earn their way out, and presenting the bankers more bumper profits and bonuses as an erroneous and disgusting result, that just made my stomach turn really. Don’t we all wish we could have been relieved of our bad assets or troubles at one time or another, and left to go back on our merry way not only without consequence but at a huge profit and advantage.

    Even I can figure out that it is we – the taxpayer – who is paying for all of that. Unbelievable really, but nice to see it put clearly in just two lines.

    B*****D’s really!

  • #106057
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    the whole situation was described very well today by a tory “Its like being in a burning building with no exit doors”

  • #105857
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    the whole situation was described very well today by a tory “Its like being in a burning building with no exit doors”

  • #106061
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If Greece was a person it would be a corrupt person who always expects someone else to pay for them and protests violently when they don’t.

  • #105861
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If Greece was a person it would be a corrupt person who always expects someone else to pay for them and protests violently when they don’t.

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