Good news and bad news.

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This topic contains 51 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of rt21 rt21 5 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #56022
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Posting the link first would make sense:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12014385

    Having a foot in both camps, I seem to be in a No Win situation. I would benefit from a stable Spanish property market, which is a difficult enough dream at present, and I would benefit from a strong pound.

    The pound in my pocket rejoices every time the Euro hits trouble, when the Euro is propped up by the rich members of the Eurozone, I suffer; the pound is in a club of one probably punching well above its weight.

    For me, it’s a bit like being put into a boxing ring in a strait jacket, with Mike Tyson waiting for me.

  • #93077
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I have heard this week from two reliable sources in Spain that at least two major banks with massive property portfolios on their books are starting a slow process of releasing these none performing assets to the retail market.
    On the face of it some of these assets now look cheap with up to 75% reductions from their original values pre recession.
    However I’m still not convinced they have fallen enough to take a punt.
    I cannot see the market recovering within five years, given the serious state of EU economies.
    Being bearish is one things but stupid I am not.
    The title of the thread is good news/bad news. Where is the good news Rocker, in your imagination? 🙂

  • #92877
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    I have heard this week from two reliable sources in Spain that at least two major banks with massive property portfolios on their books are starting a slow process of releasing these none performing assets to the retail market.
    On the face of it some of these assets now look cheap with up to 75% reductions from their original values pre recession.
    However I’m still not convinced they have fallen enough to take a punt.
    I cannot see the market recovering within five years, given the serious state of EU economies.
    Being bearish is one things but stupid I am not.
    The title of the thread is good news/bad news. Where is the good news Rocker, in your imagination? 🙂

  • #101941
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I thought that would have been obvious, but realise that we’re looking at the situation from opposite perspectives. I live in Euroland and support the idea of a common currency, so a joint decision by its members to have a stability pact to protect the currency against speculators receives my approval.

    My ‘reliable’ source is the published account of the agreement put in place on Friday.

  • #101942
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    More bail out money equals deeper debts for the countries that borrow. Stability fund call it what you may but it’s just more debt that will take generations to repay. How is that good news? Its like your credit card provider increasing your credit limit every time you exceed it.
    The EU really will stop at nothing to keep it’s hopeless, useless political dream alive.

  • #101943
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    However I’m still not convinced they have fallen enough to take a punt.
    I cannot see the market recovering within five years, given the serious state of EU economies.
    Being bearish is one things but stupid I am not.
    The title of the thread is good news/bad news. Where is the good news Rocker, in your imagination? 🙂

    Agreed.

    This isn’t good news, it bad. The fund doesn’t come into force until 2013, and there is this

    The new mechanism will require private sector bondholders to share the cost of any debt restructuring on a case-by-case basis, Reuters news agency reports.

    The fund isn’t big enough to stop Spain failing and bondholders will have to take a haircut if they lend to Spain. So they won’t and Spain will need a bailout from a fund that CANNOT be increased.

    The recession is predicted by one ‘expert’ to continue until 2018, another eight years seems an impossibly long time, but I reckon its probably spot on…

  • #101944
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The constant advice not to invest in the Spanish property market at the moment is well understood, even by the Sun reader on Benidorm beach, his newspaper will be full of ‘reliable sources’.

    On this forum, Mark’s graphs, not based on ‘reliable sources’ but real, named sources, are the only ones that matter, and they all show a downward trend.

    However, I’ve heard from reliable sources that Spain is picking up, and if Logan, who has consistently stated that he will not punt on the Spanish property market (and rightly so) wants to invest in Spain, then my reliable sources recommend Iberia, Iberdrola and Santander; and Deutshe Telekom in Germany. It might be worth investing a few pounds.

    To answer some of the other points from the Euro Sceptics, the EU is here to stay, the younger British people are replacing the dying UKips and it’s inevitable that we will join the Euro once the sabre rattlers are interred. It’s common sense, logic and will benefit all of us.

  • #101945
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    The spanish stock market has been badly hit recently. If the Dax or Cac falls 0.4% the Ibex falls 1.4%. Infact spanish shares have lost a thousand points in the past month or so. Have to feel sorry for the poor buggers desperately trying to talk the spanish economy up 🙁

  • #101947
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I feel sorry for the poor buggers whose income is in pounds (I’m one of them). It’s been going down for years and years (the pound). In the sixties you could get 10 Deutscharks to the pound, converted it’s about 1,50 now. The Uk will see sense eventually, once the blue-rinse brigade are voted out once and for all.

  • #101950
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    Rocker, not that I was around in the 60’s, but the world has changed significantly in the past 50 years, so its not entirely surprising that currencies have revalued against each other.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_list_of_ten_largest_countries_by_GDP

  • #101951
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Of course the world has changed significantly since the sixties, and I was around then, but I was very young.

    The biggest change for the people of Europe was its inevitable unification after fighting two of the bloodiest wars in their history. If de Gaul hadn’t kept us out, we would have joined at the very beginning of the process because we are such an important part of Europe, much more so than tiny Greece and Ireland.

    And we should have joined the common currency, it defies common sense not to, our proud pound can’t go it alone, we can’t forever bail ourselves out by printing more money, and relying on the US for too long has harmed our country immensely.

    Our young people will show us the way, they will vote for the Euro when the time comes and with us on board the EU will become what it should be – a proper world power to combat the US, India, China and the others.

    The Home Guard needs to be abandoned and Captain Mainwaring should take early retirement, along with a few other dithery bank managers.

  • #101952
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    This is what gets me with you Europhiles, it turns out the underlying reason you have for joining is totally selfish, i.e you just want to be able to buy more stuff.

    And it makes me shameful that you’re so afraid that you want to give up sovereignty to combat some perceived menace of China and the USA. Doing the right thing for Britain is what you should have in mind, not giving the place away to a bunch of Eurocrats. Gutless traitors, youd sell your own children !!!

    We may be the home guard, but you sir and your ilk are the Neville Chamberlain’s of yester-year and you’d all be speaking bloody German by now if anyone had listened to you lot, luckily this nation has more backbone. You should give up your British passport and forego the benefits that millions lost their lives protecting.

    (cue rule britannia sound track)

  • #101953
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    On this forum, Mark’s graphs, not based on ‘reliable sources’ but real, named sources, are the only ones that matter, and they all show a downward trend.
    However, I’ve heard from reliable sources that Spain is picking up, and if Logan, who has consistently stated that he will not punt on the Spanish property market (and rightly so) wants to invest in Spain, then my reliable sources recommend Iberia, Iberdrola and Santander; and Deutshe Telekom in Germany. It might be worth investing a few pounds.
    .

    I am in business and I do not name my sources on here or identify who I deal with.
    I believe if you did a poll of the generation in the UK aged between 20-30 they would be equally against the EU in it’s current form.
    The arguments against Sterling joining the Euro have proved very sound in this recession. It is going to protect the UK against paying billions to rescue the failed states within the Eurozone.
    It has also allowed the UK to control the levers of economic power for themselves. Devaluation of Sterling being an important requirement.
    Rocker has consistently ignored the economic consequences of membership of EZ and the advantages for the UK being outside.
    His views are similar to EU politicians who can only argue their differing political opinions and rarely make an economic decision that matters. Politics in the EU always takes precedence to hard economic realities.
    I am not a UKIP supporter, I believe in a European trading block. I do not however agree with an integrated EU super state with all the attendant consequences.
    This recession has shown and will continue to show the folly of that. The peripheral states will be in the doldrums for years entirely dependant on external sources of credit and their GDP servicing it.

  • #101954
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    I am not a UKIP supporter, I believe in a European trading block. I do not however agree with an integrated EU super state with all the attendant consequences.

    This is exactly what UKIP stand for. They propose the return of an EFTA (European Free Trade Association) and oppose federalism. No one is anti-Europe, not even the most ardent sceptics. Lets have the cooperation without throwing away our independence.

  • #101956
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Farage has watered down their aims recently. UKIP stood before for complete withdrawal from the EU when Lord Person was running things. I don’t like their brand of right wing politics. In any case I don’t live or vote in the UK.

  • #101957
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    They are certainly an eclectic mix, but they are a single issue party with no ambitions outside of keeping he UK out of a federal Europe. In that context, they do a pretty good job, but I agree, they do lack the credibility of mainstream politicians (errm, for what thats worth)

    I dont live in the UK, but retain my vote. I think that’s perfectly reasonable as I retain my british citizenship.

  • #101958
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    In discussion with 2 Spanish economist friends about the financial problems here they both admitted they initially thought the UK ‘stupid’ not to have ditched the £ for the euro. Now however they desire out. Instead of being able to devalue the peseta so having a fighting chance to get Spain out of it’s self created mess they see Spain as merely puppets with certain countries pulling the strings.
    The ideal world Rocker supports is only ideal for the few in control with the masses suffering.

  • #101961
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @melosine wrote:

    In discussion with 2 Spanish economist friends about the financial problems here they both admitted they initially thought the UK ‘stupid’ not to have ditched the £ for the euro. Now however they desire out. Instead of being able to devalue the peseta so having a fighting chance to get Spain out of it’s self created mess they see Spain as merely puppets with certain countries pulling the strings.
    The ideal world Rocker supports is only ideal for the few in control with the masses suffering.

    I think it could also work if these various economies were turned into a single economy, but that takes turning all of europe into a single nation, which is now why we are going to see the final battle. The federalists cannot keep the aims of the european project underwraps any longer, the greater public now will have to decide if is all-in or not. Certainly the Euro wont survive unless they do now merge all these countries into a united states of europe, but I hope they come up with a better name… though really I hope they see some sense and take several steps back and return to the path of cooperation without any further sovereign integration.

  • #101962
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As I suspected, any discussion between someone with Pro-European views and a supporter of UKIP is pointless, the differences are too great.

    My original point that a stable Europe will benefit the UK stands, 60% of our exports head that way anyway. Not belonging to the currency union hampers our exports at every step and harms our economy.

    Car production and shipbuilding were only two of the things we were good at, but when those industries ran into trouble there was no one to turn to because we don’t really belong to the EU in their eyes, so we turned to China of all places to rescue Rover. It didn’t work.

    Our City (the bankers) saved us for many years because we are good at it, and English is still the predominant trading language. Our bankers failed because they were forced to turn to the US when we refused to join the Euro, and when the US banking system failed, so did ours.

    Greece and Ireland are still members of the Eurozone because the zone rescued them. The comments that they would be better off standing alone are not thought through, it would have been a disaster for both countries.

    I don’t know enough to comment on whether Spain or Italy or Portugal could be next, but the new stability pact agreed on Friday will ensure that the Eurozone will survive.

    I only wish the UK was a member, we are too big and important to be standing on the sidelines waving silly flags.

  • #101963
    Profile photo of Melosine
    Melosine
    Participant

    Call me old fashioned but I think many have tried that in the past adiep. Albeit using different methods !!
    We are all protective towards their own race and have different qualities and requirements. This imho is quite rightly so therefore utopian ideas ain’t gonna work.
    Unless of course one believes the majority of the populace should be slaves.

  • #101964
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant
  • #101965
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @melosine wrote:

    Call me old fashioned but I think many have tried that in the past adiep. Albeit using different methods !!
    We are all protective towards their own race and have different qualities and requirements. This imho is quite rightly so therefore utopian ideas ain’t gonna work.
    Unless of course one believes the majority of the populace should be slaves.

    Well it took the USA a civil war to properly cement the states together as a single nation. Perhaps that’s what Barroso and Rompey Pompey have in store via these plans to turn the periphery into nations of debt slaves.

  • #101966
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    Rocker, Ireland and Greece needed rescuing because they were in the EZ, it was the least the Germans could do. The end result being that now the populations of Greece and Ireland will be very much poorer in order to payback the same Germans who caused this crisis in the first place.

    I really cant understand why you seem unable to think this whole thing through for what it is – a complete f*ck up.

  • #101967
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    If as an indiviual or as a nation. If one is not strong & self sufficient one will always be a slave of someone or something.

  • #101968
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @shakeel wrote:

    If as an indiviual or as a nation. If one is not strong & self sufficient one will always be a slave of someone or something.

    How true shakeel.
    I read today that Merkle has said that the price of further financial aid is complete fiscal and political union within 10 years.
    Does Spain and Portugal really want to be reduced to the western province of Germany?
    Germany will always dominate the rest of Europe because they have the largest population and the biggest, most successful economy. They will always call the shots.

  • #101969
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Those who are vehemently opposed to the European idea seem not to have noticed globalisation. It has happened and is still happening. Smaller nations need to get together to take part. Ireland can’t trade with India unless it belongs to a group of nations with sufficient clout to iron out the vast differences with such a trading partner.

    Japan, India and China have made vast investments in Europe, and in the UK because it is part of Europe and would have made even more investments in the UK had it not been for the difficulty in trading in a different, and therefore unstable currency.

    The Euro has doubled in value since its inception, over that time the pound has halved in value. As soon as the European stability pact was announced, the pound fell again.

    With such a low currency, where can the UK invest? Instead of those nasty Germans and Spaniards coming over to buy up our major industries, wouldn’t it be nice if we could buy our way into Mercedes Benz? A chunk of Deutsche Bank wouldn’t do any harm either. Our pensions would be a lot safer.

  • #101970
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    Our pensions would be a lot safer.

    Now were getting to the meat on the bone. 😉

  • #101971
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @logan wrote:

    I read today that Merkle has said that the price of further financial aid is complete fiscal and political union within 10 years.

    Dont suppose you have a link for that?

  • #101972
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    Those who are vehemently opposed to the European idea seem not to have noticed globalisation.
    .

    My opposition to the EU has nothing to with global trade. In fact I support a union of free trade between sovereign nations. What I cannot accept is political and social union between nations which are diverse in a cultural sense and separate in an economic sense. A one size will never fit all. All EU states have differing economic needs and need to have control over the own economies.
    I keep repeating the EU is all about politics and not economics. The economics of the EU make no sense. The politics belong to a generational obsession with federalism. In order to force through their vision, democracy is thrown out of the window.
    Until the people of Europe realise this thing they have had no hand creating is destroying everything that’s been built post war, nothing will change.

  • #101973
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @adiep wrote:

    @logan wrote:
    I read today that Merkle has said that the price of further financial aid is complete fiscal and political union within 10 years.

    Dont suppose you have a link for that?

    The article is in the paper edition of The Sunday Times.

  • #101974
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I don’t quite follow the unreasonable fear of a closer political union. We have a Conservative/Liberal coalition in Germany and the UK, Conservatives in France and Socialists in Spain. ‘Nationalist’ parties like UKIP don’t exist in Europe, at least not in any numbers, exactly the same as in the UK.

    But getting back to the Spanish property connection, which is why we are all posting on this forum, what made me really sad was someone’s assertion that Spanish property needs to fall by another 75% before Brits can afford to buy in Spain again.

    It’s probably true and is a terrible indictment of the fools who kept us out of the Euro.

  • #101977
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    Rocker… Did you hear the rumour? It’s alleged that both Ireland and Greece are bankrupt and may be in need of a multi-billion euro bailout!!! I even heard some rumblings that the IMF might be involved, like these two pillars of the Euro success story are some kind of third world country that cant afford their debts!?!?! Crazy fools !

    But must be some serious amounts of crack being smoked, some nutters on the Interwebs are even suggesting that Spain, of all countries, might be bankrupt, needing 600bn euros to keep afloat. What are they on eh…? The 4th largest economy in the Eurozone along with Greece and Ireland, needing bailouts from the IMF? Pah, as if that could happen, everyone knows the Euro is a stunning success.

  • #101981
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Here’s some good news about this lovely country I live in:

    “ El País notes that Moody’s rating agency has said that the Spanish bank is the third most solid in the Eurozone. Spain is ahead of Holland and way ahead of Belgium and Germany.”

    El Pais being the equivalent of the UK Times and the Frankfurter Allgemeine, I trust what it reports.

    The other good news is that the Sun is just rising to warm the place up.

  • #101982
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well it took the USA a civil war to properly cement the states together as a single nation.

    Adiep, Europe did have two civil wars in the 20th century. One of the major consequences of this was the resolve of senior European leaders not to let it happen again. Hence what we now know as the EU.

  • #101983
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    “ El País notes that Moody’s rating agency has said that the Spanish bank is the third most solid in the Eurozone. Spain is ahead of Holland and way ahead of Belgium and Germany.”
    El Pais being the equivalent of the UK Times and the Frankfurter Allgemeine, I trust what it reports.

    Must be as a consequence of this:-
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/2783431/ECB-aid-to-Spanish-banks-matches-Rock-rescue.html
    When will the ECB discover these asset backed securities are worth a fraction of their face value? Although that article is old during 2010 it got worse. Tens of billions of Euros have been lent since then during 2010 to shore these banks up. In August 2010 Spanish banks borrowed €135Bn. Why? Because international credit markets will not touch them. They are regarded as toxic.
    Third most solid in Europe? Balls!

  • #101985
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m very sorry, but I prefer the accurate reporting of the biggest and best European newspapers to the grumpy ramblings of someone posting anonymously in cyber space and resorting to rudeness on a regular basis to disguise his, or her knowledge of the real world.

  • #101986
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Now hold on a second Rocker. Logan has been on this forum for a couple of years now and has contributed a lot of valuable insight. You may not like what he has to say but he has the right to say it.

    I’ll further add that he has thus far been very accurate on his observations of the state of the market. Once you have developed some kind of track record you might go some way towards garnering the respect than many here have for him and his views.

  • #101989
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    On Ceefax today, the ECB has said that because of the high cost of the Irish bail-out, that they may not financially be able to support others who need similar help!

  • #101991
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    I’m very sorry, but I prefer the accurate reporting of the biggest and best European newspapers to the grumpy ramblings of someone posting anonymously in cyber space and resorting to rudeness on a regular basis to disguise his, or her knowledge of the real world.

    I have noticed that when Rocker runs out of an argument he resorts to insults. In future I will ignore the posts he or she makes. Incidentally the total borrowing by Spanish banks from the ECB in 2010 totals €485bn. Gives you some idea of their liquidity deficit. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-12/spanish-banks-october-ecb-borrowing-falls-to-67-9-bln-table-.html
    brianc_il Thank you.

  • #101992
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @brianc_li wrote:

    I’ll further add that he has thus far been very accurate on his observations of the state of the market. Once you have developed some kind of track record you might go some way towards garnering the respect than many here have for him and his views.

    Comments from a newspaper are worthless, especially if they contradict what the FT is saying and markets are doing.

    I read today that Merkle has said that the price of further financial aid is complete fiscal and political union within 10 years.
    Does Spain and Portugal really want to be reduced to the western province of Germany?
    Germany will always dominate the rest of Europe because they have the largest population and the biggest, most successful economy. They will always call the shots.

    If they have a union, they will be part of the same economy, so you can’t separate them into countries , can you?

  • #101996
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @brianc_li wrote:

    Now hold on a second Rocker. Logan has been on this forum for a couple of years now and has contributed a lot of valuable insight. You may not like what he has to say but he has the right to say it.

    I’ll further add that he has thus far been very accurate on his observations of the state of the market. Once you have developed some kind of track record you might go some way towards garnering the respect than many here have for him and his views.

    I’m sorry Brian, I haven’t gone back over two years postings but I find the recent ones a bit silly and ill-informed, and if he had posted for ten years it would not excuse rudeness.

    I can’t understand why posters on a Spanish property forum seem to delight in cheering every bit of bad news concerning Spain, apart from the UKIP man for obvious reasons.

    The Spanish property market is in a horrible mess for all sorts of reasons, well documented here and elsewhere, but the country itself is a perfect destination for foreigners wishing to improve the quality of their lives.

    Things will improve over the next few years, the Spanish government have realised they have made mistakes over the properties sold to foreigners and they are taking steps to correct the mess. It can’t be done overnight, but persistent negativity on this forum is pointless.

  • #101997
    Profile photo of peterhun
    peterhun
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    but persistent negativity on this forum is pointless.

    Its not negativity, its discussion and an education (for me) on the economic situation and how affects Spain property market. Its not an emotional issue to some of us so the concept of good/bad news and negativity is irrelevant, but I’m sorry if you find it up setting.

    PIMCO “has called on Greece, Ireland and Portugal to step outside the eurozone temporarily and restructure their debts unless the currency bloc agrees to a radical change of course. “

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8215358/Pimco-says-untenable-policies-will-lead-to-eurozone-break-up.html

  • #101998
    Profile photo of adiep
    adiep
    Participant

    @peterhun wrote:

    @Rocker wrote:
    but persistent negativity on this forum is pointless.

    Its not negativity, its discussion and an education (for me) on the economic situation and how affects Spain property market. Its not an emotional issue to some of us so the concept of good/bad news and negativity is irrelevant, but I’m sorry if you find it up setting.

    PIMCO “has called on Greece, Ireland and Portugal to step outside the eurozone temporarily and restructure their debts unless the currency bloc agrees to a radical change of course. “

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8215358/Pimco-says-untenable-policies-will-lead-to-eurozone-break-up.html

    Pimco only manage $1.2 trillion, like they have any credibility. To be fair though, you have to think they have a position open that would do well on a default, like owning a ton of CDS.

  • #101999
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Rocker, it is not in any way delight in being negative. It is calling it as we see it.

    I started looking at purchasing a Spanish property over two years ago. In amongst all the voices, usually with vested interests, who were at that time advising me to ‘buy now’ and telling me that ‘the market has bottomed’ there were a few wise heads on here who suggested I ignore such remarks and instead looked at the fundamentals. I thank the gods for that sound advice, it has saved me a fortune.

    In the meantime I have been following both the Spanish market and economy – you can’t begin to understand one without the other – closely. The bottom line is that, whatever some may say, pretty well all the fundamentals indicate that the market has some way to fall. The only questions in my mind are how much further it will drop and how long that will take.

    I’ll be the happy to call the bottom of the market once I think it has been reached. I’ll take delight then in doing so.

  • #102000
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I totally agree and I have constantly warned people not to buy a property in Spain until a great number of changes have been implemented. I can’t call the bottom of the market either, but doubt if it will come in the next year, but I wouldn’t rule out a recovery in 2012.

    What I am seeing is a terrific pent-up demand from buyers who have been stunned by the events of the last few years but still want to buy in Spain once the ongoing problems about legality and illegal practices have been removed.

    That is my opinion of the general picture, but for the astute expert the bargain opportunities are already here. To be too specific would take too long, and I’m not talking about silly repossessions and even sillier mortgage offers on those properties.

    I’m talking about those few properties now hidden among the dross on the market which are perfect for the discerning buyer. The circumstances would depend on the buyer’s wishes – a normal detached chalet with a 1,000 metres and decent sized swimming pool in a sensible location, built more than 20 years ago, can now be bought for a price that will not fall, no matter what.

    The same applies to a city centre apartment in an established part of the large cities (built more than 20 years ago).

    I have to include the proviso of ‘built more than 20 years ago’, because in the last 20 years things have gone badly wrong when opportunity and sheer greed corrupted thousands of people connected with the Spanish property industry, and they were not all home grown.

  • #102001
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Since my last post, I walked to the shops, past a house that is well known to me because friends used to live there. They sold it four years ago to a couple from Ireland for £280,000. It has two bedrooms downstairs and a separate two-bedroomed flat upstairs, swimming pool etc. but with only a small 500 metre garden.

    After a death in the family the Irish couple put it on the market over a year ago for the same price they bought it for, but this morning I saw that the new price is now £189,000.

    I would imagine that an offer of £160,000 might well secure the property. It was built over 20 years ago and is in immaculate condition and in a most sensible, well-established location.

    Now that is the kind of bargain I was talking about in my last post. The dilemma for a shrewd would-be buyer would be whether to wait for longer to hope for a further reduction, or jump in now to buy a most suitable property at what could be the right price.

  • #102013
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Rocker wrote:

    I only wish the UK was a member, we are too big and important to be standing on the sidelines waving silly flags.

    Silly flags? My Mother’s 21yr old brother, a Spitfire pilot, died defending the right to wave these ‘silly flags’.

    Or perhaps you feel waving the silliest of all flags is preferable – one with a circle of 12 little gold stars?

  • #102014
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Come on now, you’ve taken a selected part of my post completely out of context to once again push your eurosceptic views. How could you do that? You must surely have understood my post sufficiently not to have felt the need to refer back to the Second World War.

    I’m afraid it reinforces my view that this forum has been taken over by a small group of vociferous eurosceptics and UKIP members who are not in the least interested in discussing anything sensible about the Spanish property market but only wish to spew out their anti- European views on a sickening regular basis.

    I would like to remind this small group of flag wavers that the great majority of British people either already living in Spain, or contemplating doing so in the future have no time for your kind – we do want to be informed of the reality of living in Spain, but not from ancients still fighting a war that ended before most of us were born.

  • #102015
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Calm down Rocker – you wrote it and I quoted it. And your problem is…?

    Ah, the ‘taking it out of context’ argument. 🙄
    For goodness sake, at least stand by what you say or are you really so spineless over what are obviously your beliefs?

    “……only wish to spew out their anti- European views on a sickening regular basis”.
    Well heaven knows Rocker, we have to suffer you spewing out pro-European views on a sickening regular basis. Are you the only one allowed an opinion here?

    “I’m afraid it reinforces my view that this forum has been taken over by a small group of vociferous eurosceptics..”
    And long may we be allowed to have our views, just like you are allowed yours. As for this forum being “taken over” – don’t you think you are being a teeny weeny bit paranoid?

    “I would like to remind this small group of flag wavers that the great majority of British people either already living in Spain, or contemplating doing so in the future have no time for your kind”
    And what “kind” would that be? A kind who still cares about which direction UK is going?
    Oh, I forgot – you (and according to you, the great majority of people either already living in Spain or contemplating doing so in the future) don’t really give a damn what happens to life in the UK as you’ve decided to bugger off and seek a ‘better life’ elsewhere.

    P.S. I hope you don’t feel I have taken your above quotes out of context – Happy Christmas 😀

  • #102021
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    This is the most sensible discussion on the currency in my pocket I have ever read – straight from the horses’ mouths.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,735812,00.html

    I tend to agree with the ‘scrapper’.

    And Happy Christmas, Charlie!

  • #102031
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    oh well even the trolls dont stop for xmas

  • #102037
    Profile photo of rt21
    rt21
    Participant

    I”m one of those who is not attached sentimentally to sterling and would not really be bothered if the UK adopted the euro if the country benefited from such a move.

    However, having considered the matter carefully over the last couple of years I have come to the conclusion that the UK is better outside the eurozone and would have suffered enormous hardship in recent years had it been a member.

    Although the concept of a common currency across the continent is a noble one, it is flawed in its current form and I am not sure that I am attracted to the idea of a common fiscal policy, which seems to be the panacea for resolving the current travails of the euro.

    I would add that my views are firmly anchored to my staus as a UK resident.

    Richard

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