Gibraltar ructions and the local property market

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This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of katy katy 3 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #57728
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The Spanish Govt. is turning the screws on Gibraltar. Foreign minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo has said “the party’s over” [for Gib.] which I guess means the gloves are coming off 😯

    The Spanish police are conducting lengthy searches on all cars, creating queues and delays of up to 7 hours in the searing heat. They are talking about introducing a €50 border crossing fee. Needless to say this is a nightmare if you live in Spain and work in Gib, or vice-versa.

    So what’s the Spanish Govt. up to? What are they trying to achieve? Is it just a distraction to get the attention away from the PP corruption problems / Bárcenas?

    Gib creates wealthy demand for housing in an area with not much else going for it, economically speaking. If this carries on it won’t be good for property values in the immediate area.

  • #117786
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I agree that Spain’s latest sabre rattling is no doubt happening to deflect from issues in Spain whilst attempting to unify the country on a Nationalistic matter and get behind Rajoy et al 🙄

  • #117788
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    although there is probably the issue of saber rattling (always a fallback for politicians around the world), there is the issue of the gib gov. dropping huge cement blocks in the nearby waters supposedly to help marine life, but also conveniently affecting nearby spanish fishermen.
    Its all tit for tat.

  • #117789
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    @fuengi wrote:

    although there is probably the issue of saber rattling (always a fallback for politicians around the world), there is the issue of the gib gov. dropping huge cement blocks in the nearby waters supposedly to help marine life, but also conveniently affecting nearby spanish fishermen.
    Its all tit for tat.

    The Spanish can’t use the excuse of the artificial reefs..Spain has 130 of them :mrgreen:
    Everyone knows the Spanish fish illegaly and not just around Gib waters.
    posted on another forum

    No idea on the specific case of Gib, but the Spanish have around 130 of these artificial arrecifes scattered around Spain, so they certainly aren’t against them in principal, just the one in Gib it would seem. If the one in Gib stops them fishing, then surely the others do as well?
    http://svn.consumer.es/web/es/medio_…/15/191655.php

    Quote:
    Gibraltar’s newest artificial reef was the topic of discussion in a recent lecture at the University of Seville. Professor of Marine Biology, Jose Carlos Garcia Gomez explained that the hollow concrete blocks are designed to both attract fish and to prevent certain types of fishing in prohibited areas.
    Europa Sur notes that the Professor detailed similar reefs that he had seen in Conil and Huelva, which acted as a deterrent to prevent trawlers from fishing less than six miles from the coast. Reefs are also present along the coasts of Malaga, Granada and Almeria.

  • #117790
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    you’ll get no argument from me katy. Although it could be argued that when these are placed in a coastal region, the nearby areas affected are included in discussions, etc…
    In this case and i cannot say how much discussions both parties were involved in.
    And at the same time, Gibraltar cannot complain about passport controls, considering that in the past, its on the gib side that they become awkward about documentation (in the past and only based on personal experience).

    about affecting fishermen, that would depend on depth of water, types of fishing, etc… which I know and care little about.

    Also as gib (and UK) are not part of schengen, this is well within spain’s rights.

  • #117791
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Well within Spain’s rights, however, Brussels are calling a meeting to ask Spain for explanations! It is no secret that Spanish fishermen operate illegally, they fish inside the limit and also dredge the bottom…they do it in their own country too.

    If the Spanish are going to use the Schenegen card then so could Gibraltar and ask the Spanish for passports instead of identity cards. I went to Gib monthly for years and never once knew or heard of the Gib side hold up the border.

  • #117792
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    When will Spain hand back Ceuta, any Spanish rocks there?? 🙄 😆 Nearly forgot Melilla, what about that Spain?

    I’m all for an artificial reef around Gib., btw ‘Spanish fish barons admit taking illegal catches out of UK waters’, Spain have a blooming huge coastline but still fish elsewhere, can’t see what their beef is, unless back to Mark’s point to ‘deflect attention’ from other matters 🙄

  • #117793
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    Well within Spain’s rights, however, Brussels are calling a meeting to ask Spain for explanations! It is no secret that Spanish fishermen operate illegally, they fish inside the limit and also dredge the bottom…they do it in their own country too.

    If the Spanish are going to use the Schenegen card then so could Gibraltar and ask the Spanish for passports instead of identity cards. I went to Gib monthly for years and never once knew or heard of the Gib side hold up the border.

    Hi Katy, only going by what i experienced. although I have only been there 5 or so times in the last 8 years.

    @angie wrote:

    When will Spain hand back Ceuta, any Spanish rocks there?? 🙄 😆

    I’m all for an artificial reef around Gib., btw ‘Spanish fish barons admit taking illegal catches out of UK waters’, Spain have a blooming huge coastline but still fish elsewhere, can’t see what their beef is, unless back to Mark’s point to ‘deflect attention’ from other matters 🙄

    agree about the african enclaves. Infact I would say uk legal claim to gib is better than spain to ceuta & melilla.
    But again, it comes down to opinions on who controls the waters, etc… The fact is for the spanish gov. gibraltar should be spanish.

    Interesting thing though, is based on the original treaty of utrecht, they Spain does (theoretically) have a valid argument for the claim

  • #117794
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    I don’t know why they are so incensed about it seeing as they do the same themselves. If you look at the world map most developed countries have remaining outposts left from the old colonies. The Dutch and French in the Caribbean. Argentina has an island at the very tip of S. America. Christmas Island Australian and it goes on…..

    What would Spain do with it, turn it into an extention of the crap that is La Linea 😆 Where would those 10,000 Spanish workers find jobs who now work in Gibraltar?

  • #117795
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    not the point is it katy?
    Gibraltar does well because of its status. If they were simply another part of Spain (or the UK for that matter) they would not attract the business they have.
    But when does economic sense over-rule political sabre-rattling?

    In this case I think both sides (or is it 3) being typical politicians, and the media being bored because its summer.

  • #117797
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Yes, just a distraction for Rajoy and his bunch of corrupt cohorts 😆

    Bottom line is nothing will happen, the EU has already stepped in and warned Spain. Certainly stirred up it’s readers in the Spanish media who don’t post comments like DM readers! Hundreds in the nationals….they hate us Brits and have forgotten 10 million of us visit 😆 Really laughed at the Daily Mirror article “Naff off Juan”…wonder if they put it in the spanish edition.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gibraltar-rock-spanish-pie-chips-2127068

  • #117798
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    Very enjoyable article katy 😉 I’m sure Spain would have far more to lose than the UK over this, time to fly the bombers over the region for show (only kidding) with signs painted under their wings ‘stop taking bungs Rajoy’ 🙄 😆

  • #117799
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Although the Gib noise is a welcome relief from the Barcenas scandal and the fishing issue just an excuse to divert attention from political party funding, the Spanish do have a point about Gibraltar. Go any evening within 50km of Gib and count the Gib registered cars spending the night in Spain. Presumably their owners work in Gib, have a convenience address and pay their taxes there. In reality they live in Spain, which is where they should pay their taxes (and have made their world wide assets declaration this April!).
    Stand at the Gib border and watch hordes of people making multiple crossings to bring back tax free cigarettes and alcohol, either for contraband or for personal use. No Spanish tax is paid on these articles but when people fall ill with lung cancer etc they expect to be treated in Spanish hospitals.
    Perhaps the main point, however, is the online gambling based in Gibraltar and one of many issues being raised during the current squall. The Spanish want this to be routed via Spain and pay its share of taxes. Why? Because this is one of the preconditions laid down by the American investors before committing to the Eurovegas casino project near Madrid.

  • #117800
    Profile photo of Fuengi (Andrew)
    Fuengi (Andrew)
    Participant

    funny article. not exactly fair or objective, but funny.

  • #117809
    Profile photo of Chopera
    Chopera
    Participant

    @Clifford Chambers wrote:

    Although the Gib noise is a welcome relief from the Barcenas scandal and the fishing issue just an excuse to divert attention from political party funding, the Spanish do have a point about Gibraltar. Go any evening within 50km of Gib and count the Gib registered cars spending the night in Spain. Presumably their owners work in Gib, have a convenience address and pay their taxes there. In reality they live in Spain, which is where they should pay their taxes (and have made their world wide assets declaration this April!).
    Stand at the Gib border and watch hordes of people making multiple crossings to bring back tax free cigarettes and alcohol, either for contraband or for personal use. No Spanish tax is paid on these articles but when people fall ill with lung cancer etc they expect to be treated in Spanish hospitals.
    Perhaps the main point, however, is the online gambling based in Gibraltar and one of many issues being raised during the current squall. The Spanish want this to be routed via Spain and pay its share of taxes. Why? Because this is one of the preconditions laid down by the American investors before committing to the Eurovegas casino project near Madrid.

    Yep I think old Peter Caruana used to campaign for continued Gibraltan separation from Spain, while living in Sotogrande.

    And I wonder how many Gibraltans would favour UK control if the UK stopped trying to prop it up with UK tax payers money? Gibraltar is a grubby little place, infested with bankers, tax dodgers, and online gambling start-ups. All tax free, thanks to the UK tax payer. Of course Spain is being it’s typically stupid self because it doesn’t realise when it’s onto a winner, since a large chunk of those dodgy gains get carried over the boarder and spent in Spain.

  • #117811
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    Gibraltar isn’t grubby, at least no grubbier than any inner cities and that includes Spain. AFAIK know the UK taxpayer doesn’t prop up the place it has a big surplus and didn’t feel a recession. If we are talking handouts the UK probably has handed more over to Spain…didn’t we contribute about 15 billion to their bank bailout let alone help to fund their thousands of vanity projects

    As for the bit about Spanish hospitals…as usual they do not provide this as a free service. Just sour grapes on Spain’s part. They would even see their own lose the 10,000 jobs Gibraltar provides. As for the fishing, take a look at a map of Spains fishing grounds around that area, Gibraltar is a minute part, they just go there for idleness and to stir up trouble (along with stirring up the bottom of the ocean and killing every living thing with their illegal nets). Even Spanish Greenpeace agrees with the blocks being laid. BTW Spain has 130 areas where they have installed blocks themselves 🙄 …paid for by grants from the EU of course.

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