Getting NIE before going to Notary

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This topic contains 43 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Anonymous Anonymous 10 years ago.

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  • #52345
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I am not sure if this has been covered before but here goes.
    It used to be the case that if a Non Resident British purchaser of property went to the Notary for the contract to be signed, the british passport could be used for ‘identification’. In fact on the NIE page in this site it does say currently:
    It is not in fact a legal requirement that you have your NIE number on that date of signing the public deeds as you can sign them on the strength of your passport number.
    I got a bit of a shock this week to learn that for our new build, we would need not only NIE numbers BEFORE the notary would handle the documentation, but also that the expert who signs off the new building has to go to the Notary IN PERSON in order to sign another document presumably to say that it conforms with blah blah blah.

    I may add that this is a new build that has been added to our land which was already handled as a purchase about 3 years back and where we did not have any NIE numbers. We have paid local ‘rates’ for the land and we assumed that NIE numbers were not relevent in our case. Our Escritura for the land is in our names with our British passports. We are effectively adding to the original Escritura for the new building.

    Can anyone throw any light on recent changes to the rules regarding this? (We are in Cadiz province)

  • #66638
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think you have misunderstood.

    Any foreigner in Spain needs a NIE number to file his taxes.

    On buying an off-plan you pay taxes, thus you need a NIE number.

    It’s not for identification purposes, your passports are enough, it is to pay taxes in Spain.

  • #66642
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well apparently the rules may have changed. I think that it was widely accepted that you could buy some property in Spain with the presentation of your British passport. The details of which would be included in your ‘escritura’ when you go to the Notario. Then you have to pay the taxes on the purchase which is when you would need to use your NIE number to identify the transaction.
    Apparently, and this is why I raised the question, Notaries are now INSISTING on the NIE document before the sale can proceed which may be quite a recent change. Maybe something to do with making sure that taxes were paid to the right Identification on the dreaded computer. Clearly, if the rules have changed, the advice given in http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/spanish_property_nie.htm may need updating because of what I mentoned in my first post above.

  • #66644
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi Costa light

    I am very surprised that you aere abloe to sign an escritura without an NIE – I was under the impression it is a legal requirement for foreigners. I am also surpised you have managed for so long wohtout one – how did you get a bank account for ewxample. I know banks will accept a passport as ID but usually insist on NIE before proceeding any further and I have never heard of a mortgage being given unles syou have an NIE number.

    Perhaps I am wrong but I think you have been lucky up until now not to have needed one because the notaries here certainly insist on NIE certificates before allowing you to sign an escritura – and it is usually one of the first things we do for clients is get their NIE number.

    Vince

  • #66645
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Vince- Maybe it is the Spanish interpretation of rules depending on which town/city/province you are in.
    I have bought two properties both with Escrituras and both have been signed in front of Notaries without needing an NIE. Clearly it was different depending perhaps on the location and the mood of the Notary. To pay Non Resident Taxes I subsequently registered with hacienda and got my NIE Number from the local police. Both purchases were made within the past 5 years.
    As I said before and as this site appears to confirm:
    It is not in fact a legal requirement that you have your NIE number on that date of signing the public deeds as you can sign them on the strength of your passport number

    GHowever my point was that this appears to now be changing so that Notaries are being REQUIRED to make sure that you do have an NIE. As I say, the tax man wants to make it clear ! Or at least clearer.

  • #66646
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    All previous posters make valid points. We would advise any persons intending to have their names on the escritura of a spanish property to make arrangements to apply for the NIE document as soon as is possible, preferably before the transmission at the Notary.

    For persons who purchase off plan, it may be some months or even years before title is officially transferred into the names of the new owners so it is hoped that time can be found beforehand to visit Spain and make the application.

    For those persons who have owned property in Spain for years and so far have not applied for the NIE number, so far you have been lucky but you may be building up a tax liability you are not aware of. As has been mentioned, now it is a legal requirement to be issued with this identification number, for taxes, for statistics, for security etc. etc.

    Good Luck, welcome to paradise
    😀

  • #66647
    Profile photo of katy
    katy
    Spectator

    We bought a property and opened a bank account without an NIE although it was many years ago. Even now when contracting services etc you are asked either for you NIE or passport no. I think it depends on the area you are dealing with or the Civil servant…is there an R in the month? did they have a relaxed breakfast?…do they like foreigners? Its a throwback to the Franco regime they just adjust the rules to suit however they are feeling that day.

    BTW when asked for numbers I just make them up, they never check anyway.

  • #66649
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Even needed my NIE number to get a mobile phone contract with telefonica.

    Jim

  • #66651
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @katy wrote:

    BTW when asked for numbers I just make them up, they never check anyway.

    for the change in the Escritura, apparently the copy of the letter showing the NIE number is to be included in the papers. previously if you didn’t have your NIE then your Passport would do. Clearly an attempt to trace the tax to the property. But it is all a bit of a mystery anyway.

    As far as opening a bank account in Spain is concerned. I have 2 different accounts and both opened as Non Resident. My banks do not require any NIE number from me, as I am Non Resident

  • #66656
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just to say banks will need NIE because you are non resident, otherwise you should have proof that you are resident else residency card. You will be required to confirm your status at least every two years to the Bank.

    You can only have one non resident bank account, the other should attract income tax.

    🙂

  • #66658
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @andy G wrote:

    Just to say banks will need NIE because you are non resident, otherwise you should have proof that you are resident else residency card. You will be required to confirm your status at least every two years to the Bank.
    You can only have one non resident bank account, the other should attract income tax. 🙂

    Hmmm. Have the banking rules changed without anybody informing the customers? 😀 Let’s just say that according to one of my banks in Spain: “Banco Halifax Hispania” the NIE is definitely NOT required in order to open an account if you are a NON RESIDENT. I think this applies to all banks.
    Please check again as your advice appears at odds with : Non residents are obliged to complete a “Non Residence Declaration” form which is available in our branches. which is included on Halifax ‘opening an account’ page. On a regular basis (I think 2 years) this Non Resident declaration should be re affirmed when they send you a letter.
    I fail to understand the import of your last sentence totally.

  • #66659
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    ANDY – I just saw the website on your details. Is that your business? Tax advisor? Are you Spanish?

  • #66662
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    And regarding obtaining NIE number, apparently the rule this week is that you must apply for them IN PERSON and not via an intermediary like a lawyer or legal representative.
    This is despite the fact that the form shown on the Spanish government ministry website: http://extranjeros.mtas.es/es/general/DatosEstadisticos_index.html for the EX-14 actually contains Item (3) DATOS DEL REPRESENTANTE LEGAL DEL SOLICITUD.
    You really don’t know where you are in Spain.
    This is the Form EX-14
    EX-14 http://extranjeros.mtas.es/en/general/ex14.pdf

  • #66673
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi,

    In our experience, the applicant has always been required to sign the form in front of the official, in exceptional cases with poa, the lawyer should be able to make the application on behalf of the applicant (assuming all documentary requirements are met), dont know if this has recently changed.

    As far as I understand, non residents are permitted to have one ‘non resident’ bank account. By Law, income tax should not be deducted from this account. If you have more than one, only one can be ‘non resident’ and income tax free, the other should be charged income tax. You may want to check with your Bank.

    FYI I am mixed, father is Spanish mother English.

    There can be rigid enforcement of the ‘rules’ or not, this can depend on locality and other factors. We have some experience in these matters but in some cases, the rules and requirements can change often, in others perhaps the changes dont happen fast enough and the system struggles to cope.

    If we can contribute and pass on the benefit of our experiences, to share with others, via mediums such as this, buyers, homeowners, investors, holidaymakers can continue to come to this beautiful country,

    🙄

  • #66684
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Costa_light

    To the best of my knowledge nothing has changed since I wrote those instructions back in 2004. I will look into it again, just to be sure. However, it’s obvious that Drakan thinks a passport number is enough to sign deeds before notary, and Drakan does know his onions. But it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if some notaries insist on NIEs, whilst others don’t. I think I even remember Heatherpsk (frequent contributor to this forum) saying that they had to get an NIF to buy – the notary they went to up there in Asturias wouldn’t even accept an NIE. So the impression I get is that it does often depend upon the notary. Always important to check with the notary you are going to use several weeks in advance, to avoid nasty surprises.

    Mark

  • #66688
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @costa_light wrote:

    Well apparently the rules may have changed. I think that it was widely accepted that you could buy some property in Spain with the presentation of your British passport. The details of which would be included in your ‘escritura’ when you go to the Notario. Then you have to pay the taxes on the purchase which is when you would need to use your NIE number to identify the transaction.
    Apparently, and this is why I raised the question, Notaries are now INSISTING on the NIE document before the sale can proceed which may be quite a recent change. Maybe something to do with making sure that taxes were paid to the right Identification on the dreaded computer. Clearly, if the rules have changed, the advice given in http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/spanish_property_nie.htm may need updating because of what I mentoned in my first post above.

    You cannot. This is not the same as what you posted above.

    The Notary will always require from you the NIE number at completion. The NIE number is one of the first things should obtain when buying property in Spain. There has been no change on this AFAIK.

    But it is not used for identification purposes as you posted above, it’s used to file your taxes. You can go as a foreigner to any Notary in Spain and your passport is more than enough as identification (i.e. on signing a PoA where no taxes are involved) but not to sell or buy in which case as you are paying taxes, the NIE is required.

  • #66690
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @mark wrote:

    Costa_light

    To the best of my knowledge nothing has changed since I wrote those instructions back in 2004. I will look into it again, just to be sure. However, it’s obvious that Drakan thinks a passport number is enough to sign deeds before notary, and Drakan does know his onions. But it wouldn’t surprise me one bit of some notaries are starting to insist on NIEs, whilst others are still happy to use a passport number. I think I even remember Heatherpsk (frequent contributor to this forum) saying that they had to get an NIF to buy – the notary they went to up there in Asturias wouldn’t even accept an NIE. So the impression I get is that it does often depend upon the notary. Always important to check with the notary you are going to use several weeks in advance, to avoid nasty surprises.

    Mark

    Mark, you’re information is fine. No need to check anything. Costa Light either didn’t explain himself properly in his first post or I misunderstood his first post. Nothing has changed.

  • #66691
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    @costa_light wrote:

    I am not sure if this has been covered before but here goes.
    It used to be the case that if a Non Resident British purchaser of property went to the Notary for the contract to be signed, the british passport could be used for ‘identification’.

    You don’t need a NIE number to sign a contract (= lease or rent, assignment etc..) at a Notary.

    Only when paying taxes are involved = completion on selling & buying.

    You also don’t need it to open a bank account. But some companies require it nonetheless (utilities, telefónica etc…)

  • #66714
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well thanks for your clear advices. I will be attending the Notary in 10 days so will report back.
    One other item that has arisen – in order to obtain an NIE number it used to be possible to get a Notarised authority to enable a 3rd party like a lawyer to obtain the NIE number. In fact it is better explained in the facts section of this site, and quote:
    How do you apply for an NIE?
    Due to a change in Spanish law as of the 1st January 2004 any foreigner wishing to obtain an NIE. has to apply in person unless they authorise before Notary a 3rd party to apply on their behalf.

    I learnt that it is now becoming impossible to apply for an NIE going through a 3rd party. (In Andalucia – Cadiz province) You have to go in person. Despite the fact that the EX-14 form still has a section to authroise a 3rd party. And it’s on the official web site.

  • #66715
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The link for the NIE form known as EX-14 was on this web page on the MIR web site.

    http://www.mir.es/SGACAVT/modelos/extranjeria/documentacion/ex-14.pdf

  • #66716
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    In short, you do not need an NIE to buy a property – but you do need an NIE to own a property.

  • #66719
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    In short Mr Rawlins you have it wrong.

    I was under the impression my posts are very clear.

    If you buy a property you need a NIE number.

  • #66734
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @Drakan wrote:

    In short Mr Rawlins you have it wrong.

    I was under the impression my posts are very clear.

    If you buy a property you need a NIE number.

    Perhaps, I was too subtle on this point.

    The act of purchasing creates and immediate state of ownership – indeed we can say that ownership is simultaneous to purchase.

  • #66735
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I understood you Mr Rawlins but going back to my original query, I am going to discover whether the Notary in Cadiz province has now been instructed by his masters to insist on having an NIE at the time of sale and signing of the ‘escritura’ in his plush office.
    I am aware that rules can just change in Spain and the news just filters out.
    I read on another Forum written by someone in Malaga province
    QUOTE: a new notarial rule is about to be introduced which states that the NIE sheets MUST be incorporated in the escritura in the case of non-resident purchasers.UNQUOTE and in his case, the local Notary is now insisting on this even though the actual implementation may be not quite their.
    This appears to back up my advice received about the need now to have your NIE BEFORE going along to the Notario when you sign for a property. And perhaps it is an Andalucia thing not all Spain?

  • #66737
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thought Drakan had made his points about NIEs very clearly – his usual style.

    If you’re still unsure buy the book You and the Law in Spain (the 2006/2007 version) – by David Searl – that will help re inforce Drakan’s advice. The book covers the law for all of Spain – not just individual provinces.

  • #66738
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi All,

    My area covers Alicante down to La Manga and for over 2 years now all the notaries have insisted on an NIE number at the time of signing the deeds.

    Once people have moved in several companies also want the NIE, for example to get a telephone or even buy a car.

    Banks will open a non resident account with just a passport.

    Banks wont give a mortgage without an NIE

    The NIE must be obtained in person either in Spain or in London and not by power of attorny.

    Thats how it is in my area but maybe it differs elsewhere.

    Bernard

  • #66740
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @costa_light wrote:

    I understood you Mr Rawlins but going back to my original query, I am going to discover whether the Notary in Cadiz province has now been instructed by his masters to insist on having an NIE at the time of sale and signing of the ‘escritura’ in his plush office.
    I am aware that rules can just change in Spain and the news just filters out.
    I read on another Forum written by someone in Malaga province
    QUOTE: a new notarial rule is about to be introduced which states that the NIE sheets MUST be incorporated in the escritura in the case of non-resident purchasers.UNQUOTE and in his case, the local Notary is now insisting on this even though the actual implementation may be not quite their.
    This appears to back up my advice received about the need now to have your NIE BEFORE going along to the Notario when you sign for a property. And perhaps it is an Andalucia thing not all Spain?

    I’m really surprised with your post Costa-light. You insist again and again on a fact that I have already thoroughly explained ad nauseam.

    ALL spanish Notaries require your NIE number on completion. As I posted already, it is neccessary to pay and file for the taxes associated with the sale or purchase of property. It is not for identification purposes, you have your UK/Irish passport for that. Nothing has changed, the process remains the same.

    Mr Rawlins is right, “purchasing creates and immediate state of ownership” it is called traditio and comes from the roman law system.

  • #66742
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Unless I have missed a message, nobody has quoted chapter and verse any law compelling a foreign buyer to produce an NIE on the day he completes on a property in Spain.

    Everyone knows that an NIE or NIF is required to pay the taxes within 30 days from the date of completion.

    For myself I will be glad when the whole Spanish legal system is tightened up though doubt I will live long enough to see it.

    In the Valencia areas lawyers are making a good living out of charging foreign buyers TWICE, so if there is a new law no Notary I have come across in the past few weeks appears to know about it.

    I have seen double charging several times and it works like this……..
    First the lawyer says they dont have time to organise an NIE so get a NIF then later apply for an NIE when the vendor realises he needs the NIE for a multitude of transactions.

    These are the same lawyers charging foreigners 150 euros each to organise a Spanish Will with no thought whatsoever to future repercussions for those people.

    Does someones 85 year old Granny with no posessions at all really need a NIF, NIE and a Spanish Will?

    I would love to be able to name and shame the Valencia lawyer who relieved that family of 4,250 euros

    She charged them for a straightforward purchase…. 2,200 Euros, 5 NIFs and 5 NIEs at 130€ each = 1300€ and 5 Wills at 150€ each.= 750€

    Jude

  • #66743
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    You see what I cannot understand is – a qualified lawyer has expressly told you – you need an NIE at the notaries – for whatever reason makes no difference. Yet pople still deem it necessary to quesiton this.

    Fact – many notaries now insist on NIE numbers.

    Probability – all of them wil
    l
    Possibility – some may not

    Stupidity dicatates lets take a chance.

    Why for goodness sake?

    Why not just get an NIE number whether it is a requirement or not and be done with it – WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM with getting an NIE number.

    So what you have to go to a police station near you and stand for 20 minutes or more – (pay someone to queue for you – spend €10 for gods sake). Is it worth taking a chance that the notary tells you you cannot sign and you have to come back again to sign when you have an NIE number

    Stop whinging, just do it and get on with your life – what on earth is the matter with you. It is a simple administraive process.

    Sorry to be so abrupt but NIE number is the first thing you do when you come to Spain – followed by getting a bank account – then you look for a house. If you cannot spend the time – go buy somewhere else

    Vince

  • #66744
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    katy
    Spectator

    I guess thats just about right, I agree 🙂

  • #66745
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    @vbtudor wrote:

    Why not just get an NIE number whether it is a requirement or not and be done with it – WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM with getting an NIE number.

    So what you have to go to a police station near you and stand for 20 minutes or more – (pay someone to queue for you – spend €10 for gods sake). Is it worth taking a chance that the notary tells you you cannot sign and you have to come back again to sign when you have an NIE number

    Could actualy be a lot worse than that Vince, client last year lost his original NIE just before his completion date, he spoke to his solicitor and was told that the photocopy he had would not be accepted at the Notary and it must be an original. He spoke to the vendor and asked for an extention, he was refused and told by the vendor that if he did not complete on the day agreed in the contact he would forfeit his 10% deposit. His solictor intervened negotiated a 2 week extension during which time he was able to get a certified copy/duplicate.

    Anyone wants to test the system by trying to complete without an NIE feel free, hell why not ignore all the other advice on this forum and buy on somewhere like Green hills as well.

    Jim

  • #66746
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Jim is right. If you happen to lose the original NIE number given to you at the Police Station you have to file for a new one. It’s the same as losing your DNI, you have to file for a new one.

  • #66748
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I think that the purpose of this thread is to inform people about the requirements of the entire procedures involved with NIE and it is certainly helpful.
    One thing I have noticed is that Mark’s PDF file to show how to fill in the NIE application : http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/NIE_ex14_application.pdf is different to the same form on the Spanish goverment site quoted above.
    It is no wonder that there can be confusion in these matters.

    And Vince, your advice: Sorry to be so abrupt but NIE number is the first thing you do when you come to Spain – followed by getting a bank account – then you look for a house. If you cannot spend the time – go buy somewhere else

    I mean the first thing I did was to open a Non Resident bank account so I could use that to pay for my rent and other expenses by allowing the use of a Euro hole in the wall account and cash withdrawal. I then found a suitable apartment and arranged the purchase through the Estate Agent. this was 4 years ago. The Escritura was signed with our passports and no NIE. Money to pay for it was transferred into my Spanish bank and a ‘bankers cheque’ was issued for the purchase. To this day, my bank has never queried whether I have an NIE number because I sign a Non Res form and I am a Non Res. The property was bought in joint names of myself and wife. I later obtained an NIE number for myself and paid the annual 214 Non Resident Tax. This was paid by me and my local hacienda helped me to complete the form. I subsequently paid following years taxes. I then sold the apartment and obtained the help of a local Spaniard who took care of all the procedures after signing a letter of authority in front of the Notary. The 5% Gains Tax was deducted and subsequently an additional amount of Tax was calculated as being due over and above the 5%. This was agreed and approx one year later the hacienda got round to sending the ‘invoice’ which was paid immediately. At no stage did the hacienda ever question the joint ownership on the escritura and therefore I assumed that they only wanted to collect taxes that ‘belonged’ to the property.
    So you may understand my degree of haziness over the way taxes are collected and the Notaries role in all this.
    But I will learn more next week when I meet the Notary and he can tell me what the current situation is. The situation in my particular location that is.

  • #66856
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    We are in the process of buying a house in Spain at the moment and were told that the laws have changed recently and you CANNOT buy anything in Spain anymore without an NIE number. The Estate agent there told us that she could not make the appointment with the Notary until we got one

  • #66857
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Hi all,

    I’m preparing new instructions this afternoon on NIEs. Should be ready by end of day.

    But yes, I can confirm that (apparently) as of June there are new guidelines to notaries from the Spanish Home Office stating that foreigners should have an NIE, or proof from the Spanish police that an NIE has been request (the stamped request form you are given as proof of application), before they can sign deeds before notary. I understand that these are just guidelines, not law, so it’s up to the notary.

    This means that if you go to the police station the day before signing and submit your application, you should not have any trouble signing the deeds before notary, if you can produce the stamped receipt you are given at the police station.

    I can also confirm that EU nationals can still use powers of attorney to request an NIE. However, non-EU nationals can’t (this question was brought up somewhere back in this thread).

    Warning. These guidelines are not consistently applied in all areas. Seems to depend upon the notary. Always check in advance with the notary you are going to use (buyers can select the notary) what is required in your case. Safest course of action is to assume that you must have an NIE on the day of signing the deeds.

    Mark

  • #66860
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Just to add on the subject of NIE’s.
    I have been asked for my NIE number on quite a few occasions when making a large purchase, ie new windows, new garage door, cooker etc. I was told that without it the company concerned can’t reclaim the IBA (VAT)

    regards
    jez

  • #66890
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thanks Mark for the update about this change in the rules. Also was interested to read your comment I can also confirm that EU nationals can still use powers of attorney to request an NIE. As this was unclear to me.

  • #66900
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Spoken to lawyers up and down the land in last 24 hours.

    Guess what. Sometimes you need an NIE for escritura, sometimes you don’t.

    It depends upon the region where you are signing, and the notary you go to.

    If the notary you go to insists on you obtaining an NIE number by the time of escritura, then that is what you have to do. But there are many notaries who do not insist on you having an NIE number by the time of escritura.

    There is no law that says that non-resident foreigners have to have an NIE number in order to sign deeds before notary. You can sign on the strength of your passport number, though for paying your taxes within 30 days of escritura you must have an NIE number.

    If you are using a mortgage, then you must have an NIE number by the time of escritura. Mortgage lenders insist on this.

    The safest course of action is to get an NIE number in time for escritura. You have to get one anyway, so might as well avoid all problems and have it for this event.

    For more info see new instructions here:
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/spanish_property_nie.htm#more_info

    All comments welcome. As always, if there are any errors, please notify me.

    Mark

  • #67058
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    Further comment about NIE numbers. Visited a Notary in Cadiz province yesterday along with stamped application form (EX-14) by main Cadiz Police office. Notaries office said that no formal documents can be notarised until the actual number and letter became available. I asked whether this was a new ‘law’ as I had understood that with the proof of application you may be able to process the notarised document. Was told that the particular Notary had been insisting on NIE numbers for some time (I think for at least a year) and when I asked what specific Law was being applied I was referred to : Real Decreto 2393/2004 . And I believe the Article number being applied is Article 100. I did not ask if being an ‘extranjero’ was “everybody” or if there were seperate rules for EU community members.
    The full Law is on this page:
    http://www.mir.es/SGACAVT/derecho/rd/rd2393_2004.html

    Anybody care to comment on the application of this?

  • #67064
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Well I practise in the south of Spain, and Notaries do require NIE numbers at completion so as to include them in the file at completion. But then, almost all my clients have mortgages, so obviously as has been said above the banks themselves require this as well.

    I really don’t undertstand all this fuss around the NIE number. Mortgage or no mortgage you should have the NIE number before completion. This is how the lawfirms I’ve worked for have done it and it is only common sense although this is a sense which seems to be seldomly common. I’ll illustrate this with an example.

    Example.- Mr Lightheaded decides he does not need to apply for a NIE number beofre completion for what ever reason and he is buying a resale from a lovely elderly couple, the Welsh, who beeing British like him make them 100% trustworthy. Very foolish, but fair enough.

    Mr Lightheaded completes at the Notary to the dismay of his poor spanish abogado because as I posted, the Notary only requires your passport as a means of identification not the NIE number which will be used to file taxes associated to the purchase and forever since.

    Mr Lightheaded now decides it is time to apply for the NIE number, after completion, despite his spanish lawyer telling him to do so from the onstart, 5 months ago, because it is neccessary to pay taxes in Spain. But he read in some forum that you had 30 days after completion to pay your taxes, so he could obtain the NIE number within those 30 days and then pay his taxes within said deadline.

    Mr Lightheaded not trusting his “dodgy” spanish abogado after all those horrible stories he has read in the UK media decides to do it himself. So off he goes an applies for it at the Police Station. They inform him it will be ready in 3 weeks. Fantastic he thinks. I’ve saved myself 200€ in not paying the lawyer/gestoría and I have done it myself, so satisfied he goes down to the pub for a pint or maybe two.

    In the meantime, unbeknownst to him, time has started running out. Mr Lightheaded or his lawyer have 10 days in which to pick up the Title Deed at the Notarys, pay the taxes associated to the purchase at Hacienda and then registering the Title Deed with the receipts of having paid the taxes at the Land Registry.

    Meanwhile the Welsh have been busy selling the very same property to the Schmofenwalds, a lovely german couple. This couple have a very sharp spanish lawyer and has applied for the NIE number of the couple months ago. After a week, when the Title Deed is ready to pick up at the Notary, our sharp young lawyer pays the taxes, files them and has the property registered under the name of the Schmofenwalds.

    Mr Lightheaded in the meantime has let three whole weeks pass by and goes to pick up the NIE number at the local Police Station. He pays his taxes, he files them thinking he is still within the 30 days period after completion to file and pay his taxes and goes to the Land Registry to register his property thinking he has outsmarted his “dodgy” spanish lawyer.

    But he is in for some very nasty surprise, because the property, the very one he bought from his countrymen, the adorable elderly couple Welsh, have double saled the property after they sold it to him. And what is worse is that the Schmofenwalds have inscribed the property under their own name before him thanks to their sharp young spanish lawyer.

    For not having heeded his lawyer’s advise thinking he knew better Mr Lightheaded has now lost this property and there is nothing he can do about it legally, not even sue the Welsh, because the Welsh happen to be now living luxuriously in Zambia off the money of their double sale laughing all the way to the bank.

    Almost true story, names have been changed.

    When a Spanish lawyer tells you to have a NIE number at completion do so and stop acting as if you know better. Just my advise.

  • #67068
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    So I think this thread has clarified the position. Cleared the air.
    I just read this on the Property Insight – Visiting the Notary page
    http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/spanish_property_visiting_notary.htm
    After signing the deeds

    After signing the deeds the property is all yours, though the taxes still need to be paid and your title inscribed in the property register.

    You will be given a copy (copia simple) of the deeds to take away after the signing. Each copy costs around 30 Euros so you should decide how many copies you want in advance. You can use the copia simple to do most things, such as set up utility contracts and pay taxes. A few days later your lawyer will be able to collect the original deeds signed by the notary (copia autorizada), which are needed to inscribe your title in the property register. In the meantime the notary should have faxed notification of your purchase to the property registry immediately after the sale, thus blocking the register for 10 days and preventing anyone else from inscribing a claim to the same property during this period.

    And so I see that for 10 days after the purchase of your new property, the Registry has been informed about it and would effectively block any claim such as re-mortgage or a 2nd fraudulent sale. But on the 11th day this may not be the case and they may allow the original owner to sell to another party ! That’s not cricket. Surely the Notary’s Fax to the Registro confirming a sale should not have a 10 day time limit on it ! After all the Notary has witnessed the sale and seen the money changing hands – that’s fairly plain.

  • #67069
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Exactly, you have understood very well. 😀

    On the eleventh day this ten-day timeframe which the Land Registry gives you to protect you interests ceases, and anyone who comes along and registers a change in the ownership of that property and registers it before you will have priority over you despite you completing on it before them at a Notary.

    To avoid such a stupid legal loophole it is very advisable to have your NIE number ready before completion, so that we lawyers can arrange everything within those ten days “protection” Land Registry days after completion.

    Lex dura, sed Lex.

  • #67458
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    I intend to apply for my NIE via the London consulate and need some help in translation. Mark has a sample of how to complete the form for 2001.

    However there is now a new form 2393/2004. Can anyone provide the translation for me cos there are additional items – Pt 2 and Pt 4

    And for address of property in Spain: I am buying off plan, so is the Plot Number and Type sufficient? If not, what should I put.

    Purchase contract: I only have an email copy from my solicitor and not the original. Is it sufficient for the consulate?

    For the address of notification, do I put the London Consulate’s address or can I use my UK home address?

    A sample or any help will be much appreciated. Thanks

  • #67459
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    As the thread has been resurected I would just like to add that we have recently employed the services of a person in Alicante who was able to get official stamped and ready to use NIE numbers same day! Great service promises same day paperwork. Not suggesting anyone cut it that fine but good to know it can be done.

    Anyone wants contact details PM me.

    Regards

    Jim

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