Germany and the UK versus the rest?

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of GarySFBCN GarySFBCN 4 years ago.

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  • #57152
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/23/eu-summit-breaks-up-budget

    Germany and the UK versus the rest, by God it shakes a few misconceptions about the whole European idea. I’ve always thought it to be a natural alliance, ever since De Gaulle said Non when we wanted to join.

    I suppose, facetiously, the House of Hannover makes the difference, but is it all that facetious?

    I’m not an admirer of Cameron, nor Milliband, nor Clegg, but the boy from Eton has done well on the European stage today.

  • #113519
    Profile photo of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Sweden, Finland, Holland and Denmark also.

    I have said it earlier and I’ll say it again. A Scandinavian United States or a northern european alliance would work much better because of a closer common culture.

  • #113520
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I could see that working Ardun and Rocker, UK included in a strong Northern European Alliance. 😉

  • #113521
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    I’m afraid that economically the UK is in dire straits (and getting worse) so would not be part of a “strong northern group”. They even lag far behind Spain as regards export growth, so I’m not too sure how the UK is going to pay off its debt in the coming years, unless they can get the economy motoring again, which seems unlikely with Dave and Gideon in charge – and I fear that Millipede has shown no idea either as to how to get things moving.

    UK public sector borrowing worse than expected in October
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20424492

    He told the BBC that he could see no chance of the government now hitting its deficit target of £120bn for 2012-13. Current projections suggest this year’s deficit would come in closer to £130bn.
    “So it’s moving totally in the wrong direction,” he said.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/crispin-odey-david-cameron-is-not-a-leader-doesnt-understand-power-and-doesnt-use-it-8335027.html

    This is the man who predicted the recession, and here, in the pink art-lined boardroom of his oak-panelled offices, he delivers another devastating blow: “Property is ludicrously expensive,” he says. “House prices are right at the top of their cycle. I think they could crash. I’m not saying it’ll happen immediately, but I do think they can drop by half.”

  • #113522
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Still there are those who are more optimistic about our economic future. They say that inventions like 3D printing, driverless cars, biotech, aquafarming, new energy etc will save our economy. Let’s hope so!

    http://www.cityam.com/latest-news/allister-heath/technology-and-human-ingenuity-will-rescue-the-economy#.UK85Gtj2CEc.twitter

  • #113523
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Shale Gas is the new holy grail which will make the USA the largest producer of natural gas in the world by 2015. It will transform the US economy and Britain will also benefit since the UK has massive reserves estimate at £1.6 trillion.
    However the green lobby is trying to scupper it on environmental grounds.

    In 20 years Britain could be 50% self sufficient in natural gas if the technology proves acceptable.

  • #113524
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    I supported the concept of the EU, not the Eurozone, for many years, and selfishly came to live in Spain because it allowed me to live in the sun with full citizen’s rights.

    Although I didn’t realise it at the time, the fall of Lehmans and the horrible global recession that followed it soured the dream. Among other things, it halved the value of my current house and more or less destroyed my other business ventures in Spain.

    I began to see the faults in the Eurozone, austerity being a great leveller, and five years on, still with Euros in my pocket, I now realise that the common currency can’t work because Northern Europeans have little in common with Southern Europeans – mostly because the latter don’t pay their taxes.

    I witness the ‘black’ money on a daily basis. It’s a cultural thing, embedded in the countries around the Mediterranean. I actually feel sorry for the many Spanish mayors now being jailed for corruption – I’m sure most of them don’t even understand why they are behind bars for doing something that comes naturally.

    My Northern European neighbour next door has Spanish builders in at the moment. They work a three-hour day and are paid in cash. You couldn’t wish to meet nicer or happier people.

  • #113525
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    I’m surprised you still live in the UK Mark Nessfield, at every opportunity never mind the topic you like to dish the dirt on the UK and it’s finances and property, but this is Spanish Property Insight isn’t it but you don’t like to hear the truth about Spanish woes do you? Do you think Spain doesn’t have dire problems, look at it’s unemployment levels, it’s shrinking manufacturing output, it’s indebted banks, it’s huge oversupply of property it needs to sell?

    Of course the UK would be better off in a Northern Alliance without the Club Med countries draining them. Not many countries are in a healthy state. BTW Cyprus although small became the 5th Eurozone country to request a bailout.

    So why don’t you put your move to Spain in progress to one of the many Cities you can’t make your mind up on, you talk the talk so set yourself a target, do it, ‘you know it makes sense Rodney’, you know you cannot lose, you understand markets don’t you? 😆 😆

  • #113526
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @angie wrote:

    I’m surprised you still live in the UK Mark Nessfield, at every opportunity never mind the topic you like to dish the dirt on the UK and it’s finances and property, but this is Spanish Property Insight isn’t it but you don’t like to hear the truth about Spanish woes do you? Do you think Spain doesn’t have dire problems, look at it’s unemployment levels, it’s shrinking manufacturing output, it’s indebted banks, it’s huge oversupply of property it needs to sell?

    Of course the UK would be better off in a Northern Alliance without the Club Med countries draining them. Not many countries are in a healthy state. BTW Cyprus although small became the 5th Eurozone country to request a bailout.

    So why don’t you put your move to Spain in progress to one of the many Cities you can’t make your mind up on, you talk the talk so set yourself a target, do it, ‘you know it makes sense Rodney’, you know you cannot lose, you understand markets don’t you? 😆 😆

    Any chance of a logical statement keeping to the issues instead of repetitive ad-hominem attacks?
    Why is the UK, despite the low pound and enormous QE, performing so badly, and with lack-lustre export growth? I suspect part of it is because people are spending their time sneering at others on talkboards and not looking for export opportunities. If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem…
    Still, my ventures in the new year (selling in Spain and Turkey) may not succeed either. I don’t claim to be an expert in these matters. Vamos a ver…

  • #113527
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    We may not realise it yet because it has yet to dawn on most but huge changes are coming to Spain.

    If the vote for nationalism this weekend goes through with a massive majority Catalonia will start a move for independence and separation from Spain. Madrid will resist it and confrontation is inevitable.

    Spain is essentially bankrupt. Once it asks for a bailout which it cannot avoid the EU money will impose enormous further austerity on the population. It will take many years to turn around the economics of the nation. The Spanish population are already at the end of their tether. The state benefit of €460 per month which has so far kept the people subdued will soon run out. With little prospect of employment or growth on the horizon trouble is brewing.

    This EU summit this week was like watching the Roman emperor Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned. It was a total irrelevant event in the scheme of things as is most summits. I have no idea why the media think them important.

    The European Union itself is becoming irrelevant as the world economy expands and trading between the BRIC nations becomes more and more the main event.

  • #113528
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    Spain is taking advantage of growth in other parts of the world, by increasing their export growth substantially. Let’s hope that the UK still has the nous to follow suit – relying on our old manufacturing industries is not the answer as people being made redundant at Tata steel can tell you.

  • #113529
    Profile photo of angie
    angie
    Spectator

    You’ve been constantly guilty of your first line nessy, check your posts 😆

    You don’t seem able to see what myself and others do about Spain, read logan’s post for example.

    Read my 2nd para which keeps to the issues 🙄

    Don’t have a view on your New Year ventures, not sure that you’ve expounded them to us yet, but will cast my eye on them for you if you wish 🙄

  • #113531
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Most exporting countries are supplying the current huge demand to the far east and China. They are part of the BRIC boom I have already mentioned.

    The chart Marcos posts is simply a reflection of the Spanish share of that market. It’s neither remarkable or indicative of any change or turn around in Spain’s fortunes.

    The pie is shared around. You will probably be able to find comparative charts somewhere with other EU nations which would show each has it’s own market share with Germany enjoying the most.

    This export demand is not reflected in the unemployment figures in Spain which is the real bell weather of growth.

  • #113532
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    Anonymous
    Participant

    You need to look at the wider European picture to even try and understand Spain’s internal problems with the Catalunians and the Basques. The Scots and Bavarians are also striving for more independence within their own countries, and similar examples can be found throughout Europe.

    I don’t know why, but this strange wave of regional ‘nationalism’ is sweeping across Europe, possibly as a weird reaction to the centralism sought by the EU. It does not make economic sense and limits Europe’s ability to compete globally.

    Europe would be much more prosperous if it was truly united, common politics, a common defence force, and, of course, a common currency.

    It will never happen, too much blood has seeped into the soil, and the little would-be dictators are still on the stage – they all appear to be little men, don’t they? Like the crook in Italy.

  • #113533
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Shale Gas is the new holy grail which will make the USA the largest producer of natural gas in the world by 2015. It will transform the US economy and Britain will also benefit since the UK has massive reserves estimate at £1.6 trillion. However the green lobby is trying to scupper it on environmental grounds.

    The method used for extraction is commonly referred to as ‘fracking’. The problem with this method is that there is ground water contamination with chemicals that are know carcinogens, and more importantly, it causes induced seismic activity – earthquakes.

  • #113534
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    If the vote for nationalism this weekend goes through with a massive majority Catalonia will start a move for independence and separation from Spain. Madrid will resist it and confrontation is inevitable. Spain is essentially bankrupt.

    Just as a big part of the independence movement in Catalunya is motivated to provide cover for the cuts and privatization implemented by Catalan governance, Spain’s confrontation of Catalunya will be nothing more than a distraction away from the failed policies of – no, make that the absence of any policies from – PP. I am shocked at the fiscal ineptness of PP.

  • #113535
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    @garysfbcn wrote:

    Shale Gas is the new holy grail which will make the USA the largest producer of natural gas in the world by 2015. It will transform the US economy and Britain will also benefit since the UK has massive reserves estimate at £1.6 trillion. However the green lobby is trying to scupper it on environmental grounds.

    The method used for extraction is commonly referred to as ‘fracking’. The problem with this method is that there is ground water contamination with chemicals that are know carcinogens, and more importantly, it causes induced seismic activity – earthquakes.

    Do you think that will stop anything?

  • #113536
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Do you think that will stop anything?

    Yes. Some of the harmful effects of fracking are easy to understand and demonstrate. Fracking is not going to be with us much longer. Bloomberg on earthquakes from fracking:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-12/earthquake-outbreak-in-central-u-s-tied-to-drilling-wastewater.html

    MSNBC on water contamination (flamable water from the faucet in people’s homes):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4VNGFP6qE

  • #113538
    Profile photo of DBMarcos99
    DBMarcos99
    Participant

    I wish I shared your optimism. Countries are quite prepared to go to war to secure oil supplies, so I doubt they’d hold up fracking exploitation because of those issues. I suppose we’ll see though.

  • #113540
    Profile photo of logan
    logan
    Participant

    Energy supply historically has always carried an environmental and human costs. Think about the coal mines in the nineteenth century which gave the UK an economic edge during the industrial revolution. The cost both in human and environmental terms was enormous.

    Industry pollutes and provides prosperity. You cannot have one without the other.

    Green energy can provide some contribution but it’s only a minor bit part in the scheme of things.

    Societies have to choose if they want high living standards they need to accept the environmental cost. Fracking for shale gas is simply the next step in satisfying a market demand as oil reserves start to run out.

    We humans are and have in the past exhausted the earths ability to provide. I believe we are close to an end game where the way we live will become severely challenged.

    Industry will only be controlled by political causes which produces votes. Green votes are a minority because the population want to hold on to low cost energy and high living standards. The environment will always lose.

  • #113541
    Profile photo of GarySFBCN
    GarySFBCN
    Participant

    Industry will only be controlled by political causes which produces votes. Green votes are a minority because the population want to hold on to low cost energy and high living standards. The environment will always lose.

    True, but…it wasn’t ‘green votes’ the halted nuclear energy in the US. It was fear. In the US, this will happen with fracking. Did you watch the video I posted? People igniting water from the faucets in kitchen sinks are powerful images for the opposition to use.

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